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US School Installs 'Shooter Detection' System

An anonymous reader writes: A school in Methuen, Massachusetts has demonstrated the first installation of an automated detection system for active gunmen. Sensors placed throughout the building are activated by the sounds of gunfire. The sensors relay data on the shooter's real-time location directly to police, who can then track and subdue their target. The system was developed for the military to detect the location of enemy fire. It will cost school districts between $20,000 and $100,000 to equip each school with the gunfire-detecting sensors. Methuen's police chief said, "It's amazing, the short, split-second amount of time from identification of the shot to transmission of the message. It changes the whole game. Without that shot detection system, we wouldn't know what was going on in the school ... Valuable, valuable time can be lost. Unfortunately, with school crisis situations, it's about mitigating loss."

21 of 698 comments (clear)

  1. Wonderful idea. by Minwee · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just remember, whatever you do, don't ever drop your books in the hallway.

    Trust me. Don't do it.

    1. Re:Wonderful idea. by tehcyder · · Score: 4, Informative

      And kids totally won't abuse the system to get out of taking their finals. Why pull the fire alarm when you can make a really great prank!

      I'm not American, so maybe you do things differently, but here in the UK, if there's some disastrous event that means you have to evacuate a school/college during exam time, then we just reschedule the exams for another day.

      I expect it's socialism.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    2. Re:Wonderful idea. by sexconker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm pretty sure that "various gunshots" sound a lot more like one another than "a gunshot" and "a book hitting the floor" sound like one another:

      For instance:
      - dropping a book doesn't cause a supersonic snap as it passes by the sensor - a bullet does.
      - a book hitting the floor is not going to create a sound that is 120 dB to 160 dB - noise levels equivalent to "somewhere between a pnemuatic riveter and a jet engine." The muzzle blast from a gun does create a sound that loud.

      So there's two fairly easy to discriminate characteristics that are pretty unlikely in a school setting. If the system detects and reports on those, it should be pretty easy to eliminate false positives from some douche-canoe in the library dropping a book on the floor.

      I take it you've never fired any guns in your life.
      The sound of a gunshot varies wildly with the type of gun, the type of ammunition, the space you're in, the direction the gun is facing relative to you, and your distance from the gun (distance doesn't just effect the loudness). A rifle shot in an open space can be heard for miles. A handgun shot in a closed room can go unnoticed by people in the adjoining room.

      I can guarantee you 2 things:
      1: This system simply detects and tries to locate the source of a sudden spike.
      2: Students will try to trip it, and they will succeed.

  2. One problem solved, now the other... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    One problem was solved. Now the other problem needs to be solved. Namely, what causes students to snap and to do that in the first place.

  3. Re:Benefits, but still misses the point... by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Informative
    I mostly disagreed with you until you got to

    Of course, the REAL issue isn't even guns, it is mental health. We have kids who are unstable, unbalanced, and unloved, and the system does nothing for them. There is no way to identify problem or challenged kids and get them some help before they go off the deep end.

    This isn't limited to kids, we have the same problem with adults. The mental health care system in this county is sad, we don't offer help early enough to those who need it and as a result, we have people who go crazy and do stupid stuff.

    Because indeed we are dealing with a mental health issue. In particular we are dealing with two mental health issues that are widespread in our country:

    • People don't have access to good mental health treatment options
    • People who seek mental health treatment are still stigmatized for doing so

    Until we address those issues we will still have these problems. It doesn't matter where you put guns, detectors, or anything else. All you can do is move the problem around. To make matters worse the 2010 health care bill was more about rewarding terrible insurance companies than it was actually about helping people get access to care that they need.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  4. Re:Lol. by Wycliffe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I was thinking the same thing. When I was a kid, setting off blackcats (firecrackers) in the bathroom
    was not unheard of. This makes that even more appealing.
    My biggest problem with these type of systems is that the cost/reward is so lopsided. There is
    so much more effective ways of saving lives than trying to protect yourself from a 1 in a million event.
    Children are way way more likely to be injured by their parents at home than they are by a school shooting.
    A tornado or a fire is probably also way more likely to injure a kid at school than a school shooting.
    There have to be better things to spend money on than expensive equipment that based on probabilities
    will likely never be used.

  5. Is it worth it? by djchristensen · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That equates to something like $2B to $10B to equip all the public schools in the US to stop a very small number of deaths. Such a system would have done nothing for the kids in the school in Washington State a few weeks back. I think very few of these school shootings last long enough for a system like this to make a real difference. But it makes people feel safer to think their kids are protected. I just wonder how much more effective that money could be at helping the potential perpetrators and preventing the shootings in the first place. It's amazing to me how stupid we are in this country that $20K+ per school to react faster to a catastrophe is so much more palatable than helping distressed kids and preventing the catastrophe in the first place.

  6. Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by pollarda · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The big assumption is that the gunman is continually firing shots that will allow the system to work. Alternatively, off the shelf wi-fi enabled cameras could be purchased that would provide real-time video feeds throughout the school allowing law enforcement to not only "hear" where the gunman is but to be able to actually see the gunman and potential victims as they move (or hide). Estimated cost: $5,000 - $10,000 depending on how many cameras are installed. (The prices are retail so I bet the schools can get an additional 30% off as they would probably be considered a wholesale customer.)

    Sure the technology is cool but it doesn't make it the best choice for taxpayer dollars especially given the relative rarity of school shootings. During the 2009 - 2010 school year there were 98,817 public schools. Let's say they were all equipped with this system at $50,000 / school it would cost $4,940,850,000 to retrofit all the schools. I wonder what else can be done with 5 billion dollars... Perhaps some significant development work in vaccines? Perhaps cancer? Heck, I bet more lives would be saved simply choosing random people that need medical care and making sure they get the very best treatment possible.

    1. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by squidflakes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is also this crazy idea about sensible gun legislation that would help to prevent stuff like this. You know, if we're talking crazy things that will never happen in the U.S.

    2. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As a completely unabashed gun control proponent, nothing billed under the term "common sense" actually addresses this kind of shooting(which also shouldn't be the main target of gun control legislation, lives lost in mass shootings aren't more important than those lost one at time).

      Most mental disorders are undiagnosed, many school shooters use firearms belonging to family members who don't share their disorders, and as long as the identities of gun owners is somehow considered sacrosanct and unrecorded, purchases under false pretenses will happen.

    3. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by ProzacPatient · · Score: 3, Informative

      Or, even better, we could just take all the damned SSRIs off the market; because, if you look at the history, these "school shootings" were virtually unknown until SSRIs came on the scene, then there has been a steady drip, drip, drip of these incidents, and particularly in the U.S.A., where SSRIs are hideously over-prescribed.

      I am so tired of hearing this.

      As a doctor I once had said; "Co-relation is not causation, I'm pretty sure all those shooters also regularly drank milk yet I don't see people blaming milk for suicides or homicides."

      A part of the problem is some people are just prone to violence and they're given these drugs without any real support because their councilor/parent/doctor expects the drug to do all the work but in reality it doesn't work that way; taking mood stabilizing drugs without support and encouragement is like taking diet pills and expecting to lose weight without changing your lifestyle to accommodate healthy food and exercise.

      I was once on an SSRI; Sertraline Hydrochloride, for a couple years and it really helped me get stable, and at the time the county provided a not-for-profit support network, complete with doctors and councilors, for those suffering from mental anguish and with their help I learned how to deal with negative feelings and life's problems, had people to talk to, I made friends and they helped me reach the goal of being stable enough to get off my medicine. Fast forward a few years I'm happy guy no longer on SSRIs contributing to society with a well paying job and good friends. Ultimately the medicine did it's job to help my mind to heal like a splint helps a limb to heal, and I'll be ever grateful to those who supported me in my time of need.

      Something else to take into consideration is that a drug that works 100% of the time in all cases is a fantasy because everyone's body chemistry is different so any drug can have adverse effects including but not limited to behavior, so healthcare workers and the patient alike need to work together to find a drug that works.

      Long story short; SSRIs are the product of half a century of careful research and not the evil scapegoat you and your preferred cable news channel ignorantly make them out to be.

    4. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by CanHasDIY · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I certainly hope you're not implying that US police are in a position to justly determine who qualifies, considering recent history.

      Seriously, I figured after the government's reaction to the Occupy and Ferguson protests, the left-wingers would have realized that maybe Big Brother isn't the trustworthy soul they always believed in.

      Also, per the Constitution, self defense is a legitimate reason to own guns... hell, "I like guns" is a legitimate reason. Don't like it, move to Amend. Its your only legal avenue.

      --
      An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    5. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by dave420 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Easy: If the person wishing to own a gun can demonstrate they have a good reason (work, sport, hunting, collecting, etc.) and not "I'm scared!", and can demonstrate that their guns will be stored securely, then they can have a gun. That's what more sane countries do, and they're reaping the benefits. Blaming this because the US is so big is a pathetic attempt to hand-waive away the issue. It's the same nonsensical argument people put up when discussing why internet access and health insurance are so terrible in the US as well, and as long as people make such stupid arguments, the US will continue to suffer.

    6. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's a great thought exercise for you.

      2 men, both same age, same general physique, etc.

      In scenario 1, man #1 has a gun, how much good will running away do man #2?

      In scenario 2, man #1 has a knife, how much good will running away do man #2?

      Come back when you realize how dumb your argument sounds to anyone with a functioning brain stem.

      --


      He tried to kill me with a forklift!
    7. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by harrkev · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Curtailing access to them means that some people cannot get them. That may be a problem...

      People talk about keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill. Great in theory, but is MUCH more problematic in practice. Mental illness is not binary -- it comes in various degrees and kinds.

      Should a person who hears voices telling him to kill people be denied a gun? Probably.
      Should a person who compulsively washes his hands be denied a gun? Probably not.

      If a person is on anti-depressants be denied a gun? What if they stopped taking them (this could be good or bad)? What if they stopped taking them last week against their doctor's orders? What if they stopped taking them 20 years ago?

      Suppose a person is dangerous enough to require having their rights to arms removed... Who makes that determination? Does it just take one psychologist? Should it take a board of 3 or 7 doctors? Should a judge be involved?

      If the person gets better, how are their rights restored? Once again, who makes this determination? What are the criteria?

      And suppose a person already HAS guns. Maybe they are a hunter, and love hunting. Because they are afraid of loosing their favorite recreation, they AVOID seeking mental help. Is that a great idea?

      Suppose a woman has some mental health issues and is denied a gun. However, her ex has a criminal record for violent offenses and has threatened death against the woman. Should the then be allowed to own a gun to protect herself? If so, who makes this decision? How long would it take for this issue to go through the courts? Would she even live that long?

      Seriously. just focusing on the guns is ignorant. Just saying "don't give them to lunatics" is easy to say, but much harder to do in practice. When there IS a school shooting, what is the first thing to happen? People show up to help, with guns.

      --
      "-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
    8. Re:Dumb idea ... Lots of assumptions .... by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You have to know you're lying.

      You have to be aware that stabbing people to death isn't easy. That it's intimate, requires physical struggle, requires proximity, strength, and swiftness, a good knowledge how to deliver deadly blows. People can run away, and then you can't hurt them, unless you chase.

      Honestly, how can you live with yourself, when you are so intentionally duplicitous? Are you okay with doing that? I mean... really? Do you believe the things you're saying? Honestly? Is "winning" random-ass internet gun debates so important to you that your honesty is worth it?

  7. population control through fear mogering and intim by real+gumby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA:

    Suzanne Kennan, a resident who lives across from the school...supported the investment anyway.

    ‘‘Unfortunately we’re at a point where we have to do something like this,’’

    Yes, we're at a point where the level of violent crime is at its lowest in 40 years but apparently a crazy response is needed regardless.

    Needless to say, there's no discussion in this article. Simply a visit to the school for the demonstration, a quick chat with the cops, and a thoughtless quote from the neighbor.

    I have a kid in school and frankly I think all this pseudo "security" is more dangerous for shaping future civic involvement than the anhistorical gibberish in the history books.

  8. Re:Benefits, but still misses the point... by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem with schools is that they are a factory for mental illness. The schools put up a front of being "zero tolerance" for bullies, but what it comes down to is that the bullies are protected by the system and the people they bully are punished for standing up to them or fighting back. My best friend and I both have "snapped" at some point and attacked our bullies back and we were both punished for it. I received corporal punishment and he was expelled. I can cite dozens of examples from among my peers where they eventually got fed up and fought back, and were punished for it. The only difference between me and Columbine is the scale. But the message is the same. The people that get picked on year after year and finally stand up to the bullys are the bad guys and the bullys are the martyrs.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  9. Re:Benefits, but still misses the point... by jandersen · · Score: 3, Informative

    You are so right - it is LACK OF WEAPONS that is causing all these shootings. So, instead of installing security systems, let's install automatic rocket launchers in all schools, and while we're at it, why not put something like VX gas or anthrax in the little perfume dispensers in the toilets?

  10. Re:Lock-em down by Ihlosi · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Call me when they tied the detectors into a system that mag-locks the doors and windows shut to confine the shooter in one location.

    Call me when a system like that is allowed by the local fire safety code.

  11. Re:Lol. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You could even buy them new books, computers, teacher's salaries, decent heating systems, lunch.

    Why the number of things a student could more likely benefit from is just amazing!

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!