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How 4H Is Helping Big Ag Take Over Africa

Lasrick writes 4H is in Africa, helping to distribute Big Ag products like DuPont's Pioneer seeds through ostensibly good works aimed at youth. In Africa, where the need to produce more food is especially urgent, DuPont Pioneer and other huge corporations have made major investments. But there are drawbacks: "DuPont's nutritious, high-yielding, and drought-tolerant hybrid seed costs 10 times as much. While Ghanaians typically save their own seeds to plant the next year, hybrid seeds get weaker by the generation; each planting requires another round of purchasing. What's more, says Devlin Kuyek, a researcher with the sustainable-farming nonprofit Genetic Resources Action International, because hybrid seeds are bred for intensive agriculture, they typically need chemicals to thrive."

18 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. So, does water cost more? by mveloso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What are the possible choices for farmers?

    1. grow crappy crops with free seeds and lots of expensive water,
    2. grow good groups with seeds that you need to pay for but use less water?

    #2 will make you more money, so the cost of the seeds is a non-factor. #1 will make you poor, because when it doesn't rain your crops die.

    So, what exactly is the issue?

    1. Re:So, does water cost more? by pubwvj · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You are demonstrating a classic lack of understanding about farming and agriculture. Reality is not the either or situation that you hypothesize.

      In the real world we save our best seed and livestock year to year using that to grow the next generation. With each generation the plants and animals become more adapted, stronger and do better with the local conditions. The seed and livestock are free, other than having to save some back from the harvest. This is how we have traditionally improved our stock, both plants and animals, for thousands of years. It works without paying high prices for fancy seeds.

      Thus the option is #0, which you completely neglected to consider.

    2. Re:So, does water cost more? by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Insightful

      #2 will make you more money, so the cost of the seeds is a non-factor. #1 will make you poor, because when it doesn't rain your crops die.

      So, what exactly is the issue?

      The issue is that you didn't RTFA.
      Most farmers cannot afford the seeds, so the cost turns out to be the main factor.
      Add in the price of synthetic fertilizers and most farmers can only use DuPont seeds if their government subsidizes the products.

      There are important questions surrounding the wisdom of allowing 1 corporation to be a choke point for a significant portion of any country's agricultural output.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re:So, does water cost more? by hibiki_r · · Score: 4, Insightful

      OK, if that's really how it works, why do American farmers plant so much agribusiness seed? Are they all wrong, and losing money? Because if there's one thing that a farmer will ask when you suggest a change to his growth protocol, is how is it going to make him more money.

      Hybrid vigor is a thing, and the only way to maintain said vigor across generations is to grow inbred plants, and then cross them purposefully. This works without GMOs, and is easy to prove.

      Again, for your option to be true, hundreds of thousands of farmers in the US are making terrible choices, season after season. 95% of soybeans planted in America come from agribusiness: The seeds people had just can't compete in yield. How do you explain farmer's behavior?

    4. Re:So, does water cost more? by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 3, Informative

      We did that for millennia before switching to hybrid seed. Ever consider that there might be a reason why farmers would be willing to pay more for their seed? Over the past century hybrid seeds, as well as increased focus on plant breeding, have given massive yield gains. No one is saying that locally adapted traits shouldn't be used, of course they should, everyone including the companies selling they hybrid seeds know that, but hybrid vigor is a very real and very powerful thing, and there's no way around that.

    5. Re:So, does water cost more? by dbc · · Score: 3, Informative

      ??? Dude, that is the way my great-grandfather farmed when he moved from New York to homestead in the Iowa territory. Most grains haven't been grown from saved seed for two generations. Pigs are now hybred breeds. Dairy has been using artificial insemination breeding programs for two generations. You are a little behind the times, my friend. Before you go spouting off about agricultural science, I suggest you learn some..

    6. Re:So, does water cost more? by Oligonicella · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Most do not, and most farmers have failed or are underwater financially specifically because the only buy pioneer/du pont/etc."

      I live in farming country and believe this is simply untrue. Provide a cite please.

    7. Re: So, does water cost more? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The market chooses GMO.

      Um, which market would that be? Over here it looks like the market has chosen otherwise.

      Also, get back to us when you understand what "choice" means. The fact you can begin a sentence with, "It not like someone takes a gun and forces...," and apparently keep a straight face tells us that you don't.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    8. Re:So, does water cost more? by lkcl · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What are the possible choices for farmers?

      1. grow crappy crops with free seeds and lots of expensive water,
      2. grow good groups with seeds that you need to pay for but use less water?

      #2 will make you more money, so the cost of the seeds is a non-factor. #1 will make you poor, because when it doesn't rain your crops die.

      So, what exactly is the issue?

      this is a completely wrong analysis. if (2) was true those people would have been dead centuries or millenia ago. the fact that they are still alive tells you that they get by, and that, honestly, is good enough.

      there was an attempt a few decades ago to do exactly what DuPont is doing [again]. i do not understand why 1st world countries do not leave the 3rd world alone to grow their own food. 1st world conditions are NOT THE SAME as 3rd world conditions.

      the study that i heard about was exactly the same situation. a 3rd world country which had extremely poor yields was interfered with by a 1st world country providing donations of high-yield maize. for three to four years the success of the trials resulted in bumper crops and the surrounding farmers clambered onto the 1st world genetic variety maize.

      then there was a drought.

      the high-yield 1st world maize died, and the entire area went into famine. next year, because nothing had grown, nobody had any food the year after, either.

      basically it turned out that the low-yield maize had a MASSIVE genetic diversity. some variants thrived in good conditions, some grew successfully *EVEN IN DROUGHT CONDITIONS*. no matter what happened, those people always got some food. not necessarily a lot, but enough so that they didn't die.

      now the problem was with this stupid, stupid interference by a 1st world country was that because everyone in the area had converted over to this wonderful high-yield maize, NOBODY HAD ANY OF THE OLD GENETIC VARIETY LEFT.

      it was a decade before the country properly recovered, and that was just from one drought.

      so the conclusion is, unescapably, that DuPont is intent on killing people just to make a profit, as this isn't the first time that providing 1st world maize to 3rd world countries has gone very very wrong.

      just leave them alone. we *DON'T* know better.

  2. Alternative? by sideslash · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Perhaps the alternative is seeds for fragile crops that will die in a drought and never yield much despite access to cheap chemical fertilizers? Look, I get that it's fun to hate on "Big Ag", but I also get that hippies are fond of biting the hand that feeds them. And Big Ag doesn't just feed hippies, it feeds the world, and there currently isn't any good substitute for it.

    Instead of disparaging charitable works in Africa that a rational person will perceive to be doing good to feed hungry people, why don't you focus on donating money to promote "open source" crop lines somewhere in the States so there are good alternatives to give to Africa and the rest of the world? Put your money where your mouth is (in a couple of senses).

    1. Re:Alternative? by sideslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd like to, but Big Ag and GMO proponents have lobbied hard to keep labels on food from saying if it is GMO or not. If this shit is soooooo good for us, then label it and let the market decide.

      GMO foods are harmful in exactly the same way that homeopathy can cure major illnesses. i.e. it may be true, but nobody has proven it yet, so it hasn't entered the pages of peer reviewed research, just like homeopathy hasn't penetrated Western medicine. I would guess that's the reason that laws about labeling of GMO foods aren't ubiquitous. If you are aware of respectable studies that prove otherwise about GMO foods, I'd love to see them -- seriously.

    2. Re:Alternative? by hibiki_r · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, it's really about a binary label of GMO/No GMO being pretty deceitful, and pretty expensive for what you get, especially for very processed foods.

      The argument of wanting information would make a lot more sense if the labeling was actually detailed, as it's not like there is only a single strain of GMO corn in the market: We are well in the hundreds over the years, just with corn and soybeans. Surely a variety of GMO that has been out there for 10 years is different than one that is new for this season, right?

      When you make the label binary, then what you are really telling the consumer is that all that matters is whether there are GMOs in there or not, and that only makes any sense for people that just think that GMOs are bad in principle.

      There's also the costs involved. It's not as if most companies out there buy their grain from a single farmer, so accurate labeling puts quite a bit of expense into the entire supply chain.

      You'd be better off just labeling certified organic. Then you at least only put the onus on those that really want a certification, instead of on everyone. Not that it increases food safety anyway: You'd be surprised by how toxic many treatments that are certified organic can be,

  3. Chemicals! by JBMcB · · Score: 3, Funny

    Chemicals are *everywhere*, in all of our food, and many will kill you! I only eat chemical-free food, mainly neutrons and assorted leptons.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
  4. This is bad by Kohath · · Score: 4, Funny

    I've never owned a farm.
    I've never planted or harvested a crop.
    I've never used fertilizer.
    I've never seen GMO seeds.
    I've never gone a day without food.
    I've never been to Africa.

    But I know this is really bad.

    Sent from my iPhone

  5. Re: SO by alexander_686 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If he is, he has the weight of evidence supports him.

    http://www.plosone.org/article...
    In short, after factoring in the higher costs of using GM seed, GMO crops help developing farms substantially. Even more so than the farmers in developed markets.

  6. Re: SO by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Africa is a victim of corrupt resource management. Nothing can be done until that is addressed.

    Africa is not monolithic. There are certainly corrupt countries in Africa. But Ghana, the subject of TFA, is one of the least corrupt, and most prosperous countries on the continent. The are a democracy, with well functioning institutions, a free press, near universal literacy, and a per capita GDP of about $4k, which makes them a middle income country.

  7. Re:Nope by Your.Master · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You are confused about what homeopathy means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.... Homeopathic medicine is very specifically not medicine.

    You are thinking of traditional medicine. Which is, indeed, not 100% hogwash (not 0% either).

    quite frankly if there is no proven harm there should be no harm in a label.

    It's just arbitrary. Might as well label something as made by people with princess leia hair. I'm pretty sure there's no proven harm, but I would oppose a label for that.

    Agitate for people to label things as non-GMO. That's what you really want anyway. When you go to the store for milk you don't check each liquid vessel to exclude the ones that contain traces of apple, orange, alcohol, etc.., you go for milk. If you want something that contains no GMO, then ask for no-GMO labels (and enforce truth-in-advertising laws).

    Lets not forget that a large reason for GMO seeds is to increase yields by protecting plants from pests. We are already seeing super pests [ucsusa.org] that can bypass the built in GMO protection and creating a much larger threat to agriculture than existed previously.

    Here is an actual point. However, labelling isn't likely to solve that, you'd have to completely ban them. I'm extremely skeptical that we are worse off, but I'm willing to hear more. So far it looks just like the same "Red Queen's Race" evolution has always provided.

  8. Re: SO by crmarvin42 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Simply saying something, whether you honestly believe it or not, does not make it true.

    World hunger is at the lowest it has ever been. https://www.wfp.org/stories/10... How exactly to interpret that to mean that the green revolution has led to starvation?

    Producing foods by traditional means was a large part of the reason hunger was worse in the past than it is now. There were fewer people, more of them were directly involved in food production (both in real terms and as a percent of the population) and yet there was MORE hunger than today. The modern techniques were developed because the worked better, not out of some perverse desire to make people less food secure. Large agriculture takes feeding the world as a mission statement. Every conference I've ever attended is peppered with references to the disconnect between population projections (going up FAST) and available land projections (trending downward in developed countries, and stagnant in developing ones).

    We need to produce twice as much food in 2050 as in 2010, yet we need to do it with LESS land and finite resources than we did in 2020. Going backward with regard to efficiency and yields is not a viable solution unless you are willing to let a lot of people starve needlessly.

    --
    Bureaucracy expands to meet the needs of the expanding bureaucracy.-Oscar Wilde