Slashdot Mirror


Overbilled Customer Sues Time Warner Cable For False Advertising

An anonymous reader writes According to a lawsuit filed Friday in a New York court, when Jeremy Zielinski signed up for Time Warner Internet service after seeing an ad that it was $34.99 a month, he didn't expect his first bill to be more than $94. He didn't expect he'd have to fight for weeks to resolve it. And he didn't expect that, Time Warner's next step would be to sell him faster speeds, not bother to tell him his modem couldn't handle them, send him a bill anyway, then demand that he drive to the local office at his own expense to get a compatible modem. So he's taking the cable giant to court, accusing it of false advertising and deceptive business practices. While a lone individual fighting in court against the second largest cable company in the world certainly doesn't have the odds in his favor, this could get interesting. According to the complaint, he opted out of TWC's binding arbitration clause a few days after he opened his account, so he might have a shot of keeping this issue in real court. Stay tuned for more.

36 of 223 comments (clear)

  1. I hear the sound of big business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    and it sounds like a heard of lawyers heading his way...

    1. Re:I hear the sound of big business by fnj · · Score: 5, Funny

      and it sounds like a heard of lawyers heading his way...

      I herd it was a hole heard full of wholes.

    2. Re:I hear the sound of big business by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Just don't make a class action out of it unless you are willing to settle for a coupon worth less than your cost to cash it in.

    3. Re:I hear the sound of big business by omnichad · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The person who initiates a class action usually gets a pretty good payout, too.

  2. Good for him! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I don't know why big companies just can't do what they say they're going to do. I just bought an iPhone 6 Plus from AT&T, and they promised a $200 buyback for the iPhone 4 if the purchase was made by Sept. 30. After they sent me the phone, they sent me a follow-up e-mail with a code for the iPhone 4, but the buyback value was only $100 with that code. So I had to call customer service, and they told me I had to go to the nearest AT&T store to get it straightened out. The nearest store is 30 miles from my house. Thankfully it's between my work & home IF I take an alternate, longer route. The guy at the store knew exactly what I was talking about when I got there and they were able to get me squared away without too much problem. I'm guessing they wanted to see how many people would just shrug and take a $100 hit.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Good for him! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      I always add an entry to my calendar at the same time I mail off a rebate. If it says 4-6 weeks, the calendar entry is for 8 weeks out. I put the rebate confirmation number (if online) and all the details on the event entry.

    2. Re:Good for him! by tompaulco · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll go ahead and attribute it to incompetence rather than malice,

      If the bottom line of the company on average benefits from the incompetence then I attribute it to malice.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  3. TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by GungaDan · · Score: 5, Funny

    I noticed a $10 line item on a recent TWC bill for "Home WIFI." I went through the chat option on their website to inquire what this was, and how TWC might think it is provisioning wifi in my home despite my owning my own cable modem and WAP. They told me that they could remove the line item, but that wifi would no longer work in my home. Laughable nonsense. I called their bluff and my bill dropped $10. I wish I had saved a transcript of that chat. They prey on people who don't know any better.

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    1. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's things like this that make someone who is conservative and pretty much Pro-Business agree with Obama that these people need to be declared Public Utilities and suffer all the usual regulations.

      Right now, Cable companies are gaming the system. They claim to be competitive businesses and that they should not be regulated like a utility, yet they enjoy the protections from competition typically enjoyed by Utilities.

        My neighborhood has Time Warner and AT&T DSL. AT&T was only able to provide internet because they had the phone lines. As it stands now Verizon, Google, or anyone else who wants to provide broadband, can't because of the franchise agreements. Time Warner can fuck you in the ass and all you can do is beg for lube because no other company is going to think, "hey, we can do a better job at a lower price" and then provide service because the Government (local) won't allow it.

      So Two Options...Declare all exclusivity/franchise agreements null and void and allow anyone with the capital to lay/string lines and provide service, or declare these fuckers utilities and MANDATE levels of service or tell them to GTFO and let someone else provide it.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by Jason+Levine · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's things like this that make someone who is conservative and pretty much Pro-Business agree with Obama that these people need to be declared Public Utilities and suffer all the usual regulations.

      I agree. The big ISPs are claiming that they can police themselves and don't need government regulation. Meanwhile, they are abusing their monopoly/duopoly positions to grab as much money as they can from consumers. About the only entity large enough to scare them back into some semblance of sanity *IS* the government. It's not an ideal solution, but the ISPs only have themselves to blame for being greedy and sleazy.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    3. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by L.+J.+Beauregard · · Score: 2

      They say they *can* police themselves. They don't say they *will*.

      --
      Ooh, moderator points! Five more idjits go to Minus One Hell!
      Delendae sunt RIAA, MPAA et Windoze
    4. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by JeffOwl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How about a compromise? Make the last mile providers utilities and require them to allow other ISPs to sell on their infrastructure. Since the infrastructure in many areas was a government granted monopoly when it was put in, regulate the rates that they can charge ISPs, but let the ISPs compete on prices, speeds and features. I remember when DSL was this way and I thought it worked pretty well.

    5. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think technically it's fraud, isn't it?

      They didn't steal from you, they charged you for something they weren't giving you.

      Of course, getting that sorted out is damned near impossible, and even if you did get them in court they could plead incompetence.

      And, of course, their 'license' for their service probably says that you agree to this.

      It really is time to take some of the power out of the hands of the corporations here.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:TWC are (surprise, surprise) crooks and thieves by CastrTroy · · Score: 2

      This is basically what happened in Canada. Here's my only problem. Since they are in charge of the last mile, when something goes wrong with the lines, they prioritize based on who is their customer. The only way the other ISPs can communicate with them is via email, and they can't really do too much if the big boys are being slow about fixing the problem. This is why the lines should be taken back, and managed by an impartial third party, who's only job it is to manage the lines, and isn't involved in selling internet service.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  4. It's too bad, really by rmdingler · · Score: 2
    Given the general sentiment toward cable providers and their malevolent indifference to improve service, I can reasonably see loading a jury with folks predisposed to angst with their own service.

    It's too bad this plaintiff will have a difficult time outlasting the cable giant's efforts at playing lawsuit.

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  5. Piracy Precident by wisnoskij · · Score: 4, Funny

    If you can get fined millions of dollars for stealing a 5 cent mp3, then certainly overcharging someone in the range of ~$100 is bound to bring in Billions of dollars in damages.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    1. Re:Piracy Precident by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you can get fined millions of dollars for stealing a 5 cent mp3, then certainly overcharging someone in the range of ~$100 is bound to bring in Billions of dollars in damages.

      When big corporations do it, it's "different".

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:Piracy Precident by Thanshin · · Score: 4, Funny

      I can't find Precident in the Wiktionary. Is he the guy that governed the country before the current one?

      How is he related to 5 cent, the famous rapper you mention?

  6. Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by schlachter · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Comcast offered a $50 cash card if we signed up for internet service with them. We signed up in May, and the card never came. We called and they denied that they ever offered the card. A few more calls later, they agreed that they offered it and said they would send it. It never came. Last month, five months, a final call was made and the card arrived.

    Clearly they have a strategy of screwing customers, either through intentional scripting or extreme negligence.

    --
    My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    1. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by jeffmeden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Comcast offered a $50 cash card if we signed up for internet service with them. We signed up in May, and the card never came. We called and they denied that they ever offered the card. A few more calls later, they agreed that they offered it and said they would send it. It never came. Last month, five months, a final call was made and the card arrived.

      Clearly they have a strategy of screwing customers, either through intentional scripting or extreme negligence.

      The *only* reason to offer some sort of price promotion later instead of just giving you the discount up front and making you sign a contract (even for three months of service) is so that they can roll the dice on customers signing up after being enticed by the promotion, and then not claiming the promotion. Rebates work the same way. Why is it that we can pass a thousand consumer protection laws about credit card interest rates and privacy disclosures, but can't just ban the blatant rip-off of rebate promotions?

    2. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by JeffOwl · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Never attribute to malice what could be explained by stupidity. Eg they could unintentionally be profitting millions and they have no clue why because they never audit the department managing the cash card offers.

      They know not to ask questions to which they do not want to know the answers.

    3. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by njnnja · · Score: 2

      Although it could be a combination of both malice and stupidity. Higher ups could maliciously staff up the card offer department with the most incompetent, logistically-challenged employees (who for whatever reason they can't/won't let go - yet) figuring that if the cards don't all get sent out it's no big deal.

      So there are 2 reasons why you don't get the gift card you were promised - you didn't get the card because the guy in charge of distributing them only has a job because his brother in law is one of Comcast's best corporate salesmen, and couldn't query a customer database if his life depended on it, but you also didn't get the card because some VP figured that if the guy in charge of sending them out is an idiot then they might save a few bucks because he will never figure out who should get them, and will probably never get around to actually sending them out even when he does.

    4. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by aardvarkjoe · · Score: 2

      can't just ban the blatant rip-off of rebate promotions?

      If the company honors the rebate as promised, and provides the terms of the rebate up front, then it's not a rip-off. If they don't, well, then that's fraud -- there are already laws against it, although I wouldn't mind seeing more enforcement of those laws.

      Why should the government prevent competent adults from entering into an agreement that includes a rebate? Sure, the companies are hoping that many will not claim it, but that's the customer's choice.

      I don't like the hassle of rebates myself (when I compare prices, I don't take rebates into consideration), but I don't need the government making that decision for me.

      --

      How can we continue to believe in a just universe and freedom to eat crackers if we have no ale?
    5. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by Solandri · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The *only* reason to offer some sort of price promotion later instead of just giving you the discount up front and making you sign a contract (even for three months of service) is so that they can roll the dice on customers signing up after being enticed by the promotion, and then not claiming the promotion. Rebates work the same way. Why is it that we can pass a thousand consumer protection laws about credit card interest rates and privacy disclosures, but can't just ban the blatant rip-off of rebate promotions?.

      Actually, rebates serve two different purposes. It allows the manufacturer to pass along a price cut to the final buyer without affecting its contract pricing with distributors and retailers. And it allows manufacturers to make price cuts (sometimes rather large ones) without having all of the product bought up by middlemen - e.g. eBay resellers who quickly snap up all of the available inventory at the lower price and list it on eBay at close to the original price (rebates are typically limited to a certain number per household address).

      The rebate companies hired by manufacturers to run the rebate programs work as you say. They get paid a lump sum by the manufacturer, and get to keep anything left over after paying out the rebates. So they have an incentive to stall, lose, and deny your rebates. But the reason rebates exist are legitimate and have nothing to do with ripping off consumers. In fact the second reason actually helps consumers (by cutting out flippers who drive up the price).

    6. Re: Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by RenderSeven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Obviously the Republitards are going to side with big cable

      Must you make this partisan? Comcast bought *everybody* off. http://www.nationalreview.com/...

    7. Re: Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      I was with you until you spewed crap about republicans. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about because the law has been on the books and remains on the books despite republicans having control of congress and the presidency in the recent past.

      Try keeping politics out of places it doesn't belong. Especially if you checked, you would know 2/3 or better time warner political contributiones go to democrats. If any politicisn would actually be against the consumer here, it is more likely to be them

    8. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by schlachter · · Score: 2

      exactly...and the allowance of the continued stupidity becomes passive malice. Don't do harm through action or inaction. Even our robots can handle that.

      --
      My God can beat up your God. Just kidding...don't take offense. I know there's no God.
    9. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by sjames · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The problem is that the stupidity explanation has stretched credulity to the breaking point. All those 'errors' across all those departments and they somehow manage to (practically) never err in the customer's favor. The odds of that are so long that even the most generously trusting person would have to suspect there was some sort of systematic effort to make things happen that way.

    10. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Rebates have other purposes.

      One differentiation from a normal plain price cut is info. In this case, you're a Comcast customer and they have said info, but in the general buying-from-a-store sense its a good source of buyer info. if i bought, say, a ShopVac and I had a mail-in rebate, then ShopVac has the name and mailing address of a ShopVac customer. They're now free to use that information in certain ways, such as junk mail, sending me mail for add-ons, etc.

      Second is price discrimination. If somebody wants to give me 200 for this, I don't want to get in his way. If someone will only pay 150, well, I have a 50 rebate card he can send in for. There's some effort in the rebate card and maybe the guy who paid 200 loses the receipt or just doesn't want to bother with mailing it in. That's an extra 50 for the seller, called producer surplus.

      Back when Joel Spolsky wrote more, he had an excellent primer on pricing. It's written from a producer point of view, but it's a a good read for consumers as well. If you know about producer surplus, you know where you can start negotiating on prices as a buyer.

    11. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by jopsen · · Score: 2

      Why should the government prevent competent adults from entering into an agreement that includes a rebate? Sure, the companies are hoping that many will not claim it, but that's the customer's choice./quote> Because as you say the companies are actively planning to make the advertised price/rebate not possible, or very complicated for the customer to get. Most rebates only serves to confuse the customer, so they can't see the real cost. This is not honest business.

      For the customers to compare products, with such complicated pricing schemes is just not feasible; it would take days to evaluate. In many cases it is fraud, just very hard to prove intent when companies claim institutional incompetence.

      Either way, it is a government issue to promote and ensure a transparent market that facilitates competition.

    12. Re:Comcast tried to steal $50 from me by jeffmeden · · Score: 2

      can't just ban the blatant rip-off of rebate promotions?

      If the company honors the rebate as promised, and provides the terms of the rebate up front, then it's not a rip-off. If they don't, well, then that's fraud -- there are already laws against it, although I wouldn't mind seeing more enforcement of those laws.

      Why should the government prevent competent adults from entering into an agreement that includes a rebate? Sure, the companies are hoping that many will not claim it, but that's the customer's choice.

      I don't like the hassle of rebates myself (when I compare prices, I don't take rebates into consideration), but I don't need the government making that decision for me.

      When rebate clearinghouses (the ones who actually fulfill the rebates, maybe) advertise their services as having "the lowest redemption rates" meaning basically that they are the best at scamming customers out of rebate money, something truly fucked up is going on. I agree that regulation should be used very sparingly but the whole premise of a rebate (as it is executed currently) is to entice someone into buying something with the speculation that many of them wont actually fulfill the rebate offer and get the discount they were promised.

      The law I would pass is to require any rebate offer to be submitable in store (or wholly on-line for an online purchase) and present the customer with all necessary information and questions to fulfill the rebate at the point/time of sale. The companies can still collect their marketing data and time-shift the discount (the only possibly legitimate reasons to offer a rebate) and the consumers can walk away from the purchase not having to jump through any additional hoops (and open up opportunities for the submission to be lost) to get the money they were promised.

  7. This will fail.... by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For starters he filled his complaint with a bunch of throwaway lines that seem aimed at impressing the /. crowd but which are not relevant to his case and run the risk of annoying the Judge:

    "Browsing through the TWC website, Plaintiff encountered an advertisement for a "Standard" Internet access line. While the rest of the modern world, and even otherwise-third world countries, enjoy substantially faster and better-value Internet access lines" <--- Not relevant and inflammatory

    "After logging in, Plaintiff was able to view an online statement for his account. Plaintiff expected as a result of the advertising that his bill would be $34.99, plus perhaps some small amount in taxes. To his shock, however, the bill was nearly three times that amount – it was $94.45. Although the Internet service was advertised at $34.99 per month, Plaintiff was billed $39.99 for it. There was an unexplained "Internet modem lease" fee of $5.99 added to the bill, and an "Internet, Install service" fee of $47.99 added as well. The bill also included charges for services not yet rendered." <--- Month ahead billing is a standard practice in many industries, ranging from real estate (rent is due on the 1st, not the 31st) to telecommunications. This claim will fail.

    He did have valid claims about the unadvertised install fee and price difference of $5/mo but by his own admission TWC waived the former fee while putting him on a $20/mo plan. He therefore he has no cause of action on either of these complaints. They will be disposed of with a simple motion to dismiss by the defendant, without ever being litigated. His complaint about not receiving promised speeds will fail, since the DOCSIS 2 modem they provided him with is theoretically capable of delivering the 20/2 speed he subscribed to; also, by his own admission he signed up for an "up to" service. The only complaint that may succeed is related to TWC's advertised list of "approved" modems, though I doubt very much a State Court is going to wade into such technical matters.

    Disclaimer: I have no lost love for TWC and certainly have shared his aggravation when I've had the misfortune of dealing with them. In this case though? His own complaint tells me they made a good faith effort to resolve these issues. It was certainly aggravating for him but aggravation is not a cause of action in our legal system. TWC could win the majority of these points without even filing a response, based solely off what the plaintiff writes in his complaint.

    His case is so thin that TWC could probably win a motion for court costs; I highly doubt they'll do that, the negative press would outweigh anything they'd gain, but they could if they were so inclined. This will end with TWC offering a settlement and writing it off as a public relations expense. If he refuses the settlement he'll look that much worse in the eyes of the Judge; Judges hate litigants who reject reasonable settlements.

    --
    I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
    We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
  8. I respect the effort by DavidCBillen · · Score: 2

    Reminds me of a character in a Douglas Adams novel who contemplated suing the CIA until a lawyer friend of his advised him that would be like "attacking a lunatic asylum with a banana".

  9. What is the Next High Bandwidth Tech? by retroworks · · Score: 2

    Breaking up the cable companies probably wouldn't do much without a new technology introduction. Break up of AT&T worked in retrospect because of advances in cell phone transmission, a leapfrog technology. Otherwise the Baby Bells would have still owned the local cable (like Fairpoint in New England).

    I despise so much about Comcast. They have tech support / sales entertwined... Phone support techs in faraway lands read scripted lines like "your modem is at end-of-life". The "tech's" only knowledge of my modem is that it isn't rented from Comcast, can't tell me anything else? C'mon Tech Supporter! ...If you know it's "end of life" you must know when I bought it and must know what it is, right..? Ohhh... All you know is there's no monthly rent charge? Unfortunately, for now it's the fastest and cheapest bandwidth I can get. No other company is going to run a cable to my house. I doubt making "Baby Comcast/TWC" changes that. There has to be a technical advance, probably via satellite service. When Direct TV can compete technologically, cable will play nice.

    --
    Gently reply
  10. Because they use all that extra money by waspleg · · Score: 2

    to buy lawmakers and "lobbyists". Where is the anti-rebate money going to come from? Exactly.

  11. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Comment removed based on user account deletion