Ask Slashdot: Who's the Doctors Without Borders of Technology?

danspalding writes I'm transitioning into full time tech work after 10 years in education. To that end, after years of tooling around with command line and vim, I'm starting a programming bootcamp in early December. I used to think I wanted to go into ed tech. But the more I think about it, the more I just want to contribute to the most important work I can using my new skills — mostly JavaScript (with a strong interest in graph databases). Ideally an organization that does bold, direct humanitarian work for the people who need it most. So where should I apply to work when I finish bootcamp next March? Who's the MSF of the tech world?

Comments

Engineers Without Borders

[Calavar]

Engineers Without Borders

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[SuperKendall]

Gone to the website, clicked on "ABOUT" and got a 404. Not very convincing about these engineers.

Well then it seems like they need him even more than they thought!

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[unixisc]

I'm not a fan of that group, so I'm glad if they don't exist for technology. But I'd think that RMS is the doctor without borders for technology.

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[kefalonia]

Hi,

Perhaps you are the man; please, please, have a look at this talk by Hans Rosling: http://www.ted.com/talks/hans_...

If you find it inspiring enough, kindly contact back at georgatos _at_ ewb-luxembourg _dot_ org ;
I play as the secretary of the board, at EWB Luxembourg organization (other mundane roles included).

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[kefalonia]

hm... something interesting might be going on with email... in that case, google-plus-me, we are not all that much hidden in cyberspace!

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[antdude]

Someone should fix its "About Us" link since http://www.ewb-international.o... is missing. [grin]

Re:Engineers Without Borders

[Pseudonym]

For those who live in Australia, don't forget WICEN. The US really should have something similar.

Re:Nerds Without Borders

[ZG-Rules]

http://www.nerdswithoutborders.com/

That's not the right website for NWB - that's some kind of tech blog with adverts.

The correct site is: http://nerdswithoutborders.net/

how does JavaScript work without computers?

[alen]

I mean in parts of africa where they have no tech and people go hungry and die of diseases we dont have anymore here in the first world

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good point man - I guess those people don't even have facebook?

I envy them.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Cederic]

Well, you provide them with a computer, and access to the internet.

They can then search for advice on farming and healthcare, and use the information to feed the people that aren't dying as quickly any more.

Of course, the issue isn't providing the technology, training people how to use it, paying for it or getting value from it. The problem is the corrupt officials that demand kickbacks for letting any of that happen, the religious fuckwits demanding medieval education and the racist cunts outraged that someone in another village may be trying to better themselves.

But that's Africa for you.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[whistlingtony]

" The problem is the corrupt officials that demand kickbacks for letting any of that happen, the religious fuckwits demanding medieval education and the racist cunts outraged that someone in another village may be trying to better themselves. [] But that's Africa for you."

Are you SURE that's just Africa? It sounds pretty familiar.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Of course, the issue isn't providing the technology, training people how to use it, paying for it or getting value from it. The problem is the corrupt officials that demand kickbacks for letting any of that happen, the religious fuckwits demanding medieval education and the racist cunts outraged that someone in another village may be trying to better themselves.

But that's Amerika for you.

FTFY!

America is no longer one nation indivisible any more. Red states have been trying to secede for quite some time now. Only thing stopping it is, some of them realize that it is the taxes paid by the blue states and the large urban pockets that are keeping the red states afloat. So they are threading the needle of "yeah, yeah, it would be great if we could secede" and at the same time sabotaging the secession behind the scenes.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Richard_at_work]

So you need to solve the issue of electricity, internet access, education to read and write, education to read and write English, and the inapplicability of most modern hints and tips to subsistence farming that goes on in most of sub Saharan Africa, and also local crops.

In most cases, the local farmers know how to get the most out of their land, that isn't the problem - its that getting the most out of their land does fuck all for them, it won't raise them out of poverty, just like it didn't raise their parents out of poverty.

And in most of Africa, it isn't the local officials which stand in the way of these sort of things, its the locals themselves - I have extensive experience of Uganda, Namibia, Botswana and other countries, and in pretty much all cases its the locals which reject real means of raising themselves out of poverty because they haven't changed their mind set about what is important. One of our friends is a qualified nurse, and all of his siblings have been through similar education, while his father cannot read or write, cannot speak English, and still lives in a mountain village with no running water, no electricity, and a several hour drive to a tarmac road. So how did he do it? He sold his land. Was it easy? No, the rest of the villagers derided him for selling his ancestral land and no one would buy the land off him for three years. But now he has seven educated children, and a comfortable retirement ahead of him, while he has already outlasted Ugandas average life expectancy...

In another case, my wife treated a man who had been put through university - be came to the hospital with a growth. Except he came far too late - he had had the local village "doctor" treat it for years, only coming when it started bleeding. Cancer, spread to the bone - he died later that night. Wasted money.

Its not technology, education, medicine, or farming hints and tips that is needed, its a fucking huge epiphany by the locals.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[SourceFrog]

Mobile phones.

"By the end of 2014, it is forecast that there will be more than 635m mobile subscriptions in sub-Saharan Africa. This is predicted to rise, to about 930m by late 2019, when it is estimated that three in four mobile subscriptions will be internet inclusive. The growth is attributed to the rise of social media, content-rich apps and video content accessed from a new range of smartphones costing less than $50 (£30)" http://www.theguardian.com/wor...

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[BarbaraHudson]

They can then search for advice on farming and healthcare, and use the information to feed the people that aren't dying as quickly any more.

Farming is a local enterprise. It varies greatly across the planet, based on things like land, local weather conditions, and what's available. They're more likely to get proper info from other farmers who are successful rather than from some 1st-world blog.

And healthcare advice? If there are no doctors available locally, then they won't be able to implement the solution to "You have appendicitis." Or maybe they can learn to remove the appendix by watching some youtube videos? And reading some web pages to make their own home-brew penicillin?

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[manu0601]

Are you SURE that's just Africa? It sounds pretty familiar.

The biggest difference is that African corrupted officials are appointed by western powers, while I am not sure who decide about our corrupted officials in western powers

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[timkofu]

You guys don't know what you're talking about. Actually visit "Africa", then talk.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Cederic]

Having access to the 4390 websites telling you how to diagnose appendicitis is a fuck of a lot more useful than having access to a witchdoctor.

See my reply to Richard re: farming.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Cederic]

I can't find the TED talk, sorry, but someone a few years back was putting simple web access terminals into African villages.

Top queries included, "How do I treat cattle with "

Is a UK farming blog describing how best to fleece the EU subsidy system going to help? No. Is an agricultural college describing the latest western machine intensive techniques going to help? no. Are there other farming resources out there? Hell yes.

I agree that change must be wanted. Education and access to information are important to enabling that change where it is wanted. The internet is a massive opportunity for people to learn, and gain access to information, and it would be dismissive to pretend otherwise.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[BarbaraHudson]

If you don't have access to a surgeon and antibiotics, you're no better off than calling a witch doctor.

If a ruptured appendix is left untreated, the condition is fatal.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Cederic]

Still, useful to know whether the 60 mile walk to the hospital dragging your family member behind you is necessary in advance.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[BarbaraHudson]

There are other conditions that produce many of the same symptoms as an inflamed / ruptured appendix. Relying on the web to make a diagnosis and decision as to whether to seek medical help will certainly fix the problem - a dead person doesn't need a doctor. But that "solution" sucks.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[Cederic]

Curious. You're acting as though the NHS in the UK doesn't have a website into which you can enter symptoms, and receive guidance on whether a medical professional is required.

Is this a universal panacea? No.
Would you be better off with a mobile phone you can use the ring the hospital? Yes.
Is there benefit to poor rural communities in Africa from access to the internet? Yes.

You seem to disagree. Shrug.

Re:how does JavaScript work without computers?

[davydagger]

engineering is a vast catagory, so before you troll consider:

They might set up things like water purification, introduce technology to make more effective yields from the farms, set up or maintain water pumps, stoves, simple machines, etc....

They also might help develop and implement sustainable infrastructure such as solar, and wind, that can be used in a myriad of devices to help crop production, and even computers that could aid in education, and help stop the spread of diseases through awareness

you might even give them the plans/source code so they can fix and improve the machines themselves and become self sufficient instead fo relying on the handouts from foreigners.

But I guess that doesn't work out so well, if the downtrodden are slightly educated, have a world view from reading the internet, it makes them slightly less exotic, and in the future they might not need the help of wealthy philanthropists.

Tec-Nica

[inicom]

TecNica was one with a focus on Nicaragua and Africa. Sadly they appear to no longer be active.

http://www.tecnicavolunteers.o...

Check your local community first

[borgasm]

I'm guessing that your local community probably has some needs for your skills, whether its an elementary school, charity organization, adult education program, etc....You'd be surprised how many people are held back by their lack of basic computer skills Slashdotters think they were born with.

I share your same desire to be able to donate my skills to humanitarian organizations in need (I can't build a house with my hands, but I can sure set up networks, workstations, infrastructure, etc), but many people in the world need basic services like toilets a lot more than they need electronics.

Re: Check your local community first

[danspalding]

I agree that tech skills can be abstract for people whose needs are concrete and urgent. That's why I'm hoping to find a job (not volunteer service for now) that does use technology, or at least my skills, to further humanitarian goals. Any other leads?

Re: Check your local community first

[pigiron]

Go back to school and get a real Bsc. degree in civil engineering. People in undeveloped countries need bridges, roads, clean water, and sewage systems.

Re: Check your local community first

[ColdWetDog]

I think you might be going about this backwards - find a group who's goals, methods and timelines interest you. Poke around, see if they can use whatever tech skills you have. It probably will be a non tech group - they're the ones that never can get enough money or expertise for everything. Join them and help out. Depending on your interest, skills, time and their needs, you might end up working with several such organizations.

Re: Check your local community first

[grcumb]

Stay home. Seriously. As someone who has spent the last decade working on technology in the developing world, I can tell you that most of what I do is clean up after well meaning people who don't know enough about technology to avoid making simple mistakes, and who know next to nothing about local conditions. I cut my teeth working on the Canadian frontier, and I suggest you do something similar. Don't try to help until you're confident you can.

Re: Check your local community first

[locketine]

Hey, the US could use some of those things too! http://www.infrastructurerepor...

Re: Check your local community first

[nbauman]

Stay home. Seriously. As someone who has spent the last decade working on technology in the developing world, I can tell you that most of what I do is clean up after well meaning people who don't know enough about technology to avoid making simple mistakes, and who know next to nothing about local conditions. I cut my teeth working on the Canadian frontier, and I suggest you do something similar. Don't try to help until you're confident you can.

There's some merit to that. Doctors without Borders is an unusual organization in that they often operate in areas of danger. They turn down volunteers who don't already have experience in their kind of work.

Unexperienced doctors and others often go into disaster areas without being prepared, get into trouble and have to be evacuated.

Doctors without Borders also maintains a policy of strict political neutrality in the regions where they work. They often have relationships lasting 30 years with the local medical community, and they know exactly what the locals want, without imposing their own ideas on them.

Other organizations are not so neutral. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... If you're politically naive, you may not realize the risks you're taking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

Re: Check your local community first

[Minupla]

Heyya - just a quick tip of the hat - sounds like we got started much the same way. What part of the Canadian frontier you tame? Yukon here, early 90s with a NPO.

Min

Re:Check your local community first

[Carewolf]

but many people in the world need basic services like toilets a lot more than they need electronics.

You would be surprised. After the earthquake in Haiti one of the main problems ended up being setting up electronic infrastructure for all the other workers coming in rebuilding and treating victims. Everybody send doctors and construction workers, but it became a real mess when noone send computer experts to set up internet and cellphone infrastructure for the doctors, engineers, construction workers and not least thousands of journalists to use.

Re:Check your local community first

[BarbaraHudson]

Someone who isn't a programmer, but is taking a 12-week bootcamp to become a "software engineer" by learning javascript is not going to be setting up internet and cellphone infrastructure. At least not WORKING internet and cellphone structure.

Re: Check your local community first

[grcumb]

Heyya - just a quick tip of the hat - sounds like we got started much the same way. What part of the Canadian frontier you tame? Yukon here, early 90s with a NPO.

Eastern Arctic, at about the same time. Worked with Jeff Philippe a bit, too. He was operating out of Yellowknife back then. We set up what was at the time the most remote commercial ISP in the world. It was a great lesson in doing more with less, but still operating in a place where the broader context was more or less sane.

The thing that people forget when they're working in developing countries is that you can't take even the smallest things for granted. The movement of goods can resemble Brownian motion more than anything else. I've been in situations where the tool (or part) I needed simply didn't exist in the country. And I'm not talking about arcane, hard-to-find items - I mean things like the proper allen key to mount drives into their enclosures in a rack mount server. Power is abysmally poor, and UPSes degrade about as fast as bread on a hot day - and they're all hot days.

Long story short: It's tedious, difficult work with few rewards. Often you measure success in disasters averted. I wouldn't recommend it for most people, and I wish that some well-meaning people would stay the fuck away. But those who end up here, end up living a life to be envied.

Re: Check your local community first

[Minupla]

I did YKnet around the same era then, out of Whitehorse. Set up an 8 line dial up pop in Old Crow, using bound analog sat channels.

I also did a stint down in the Eastern Carribean. I remember the bribes, favors, etc required to get a UPS from the dock to our building, and members of our team blocking off the main drag in town while we used the (borrowed) cargo forklift from the docks to lift the UPS up the side of the building. While we were discussing how to get it in the window the forklift driver disappeared, leaving the UPS balancing on top of a power pole. Driver was asleep under the lift. Waiting for the ex-pats to make up their minds.

Cricket games were something else too!

Min

Re: Check your local community first

[ihtoit]

MSF operate outside of any sort of Government backing or support (logistical or security-wise) for the simple reason that they deliberately put themselves into war zones to not only aid civilians, they also (in)advertantly aid the enemy (whoever the enemy-du-jour is). Ergo, legally they are stateless otherwise they would be committing treason.

Re: Check your local community first

[pigiron]

"Until you've discarded what you are interested and done all that, you've got no ground telling anyone else to do it."

This is not a coherent, complete, or grammatically correct sentence.

Geeks without borders

[Anonymous Coward]

http://gwob.org/

Are you looking for a Career, or a Cause?

[damn_registrars]

The start of the summary suggested the writer was looking for a career. Nonprofits are great and all, but if you are looking for a career you might want to look elsewhere. On the other hand if the person in question just retired, or has other sources of revenue that they could depend on if things didn't pan out, then searching for a "[X] without borders" might be fine.

Case in point, I have known several health care professionals (physicians, pharmacists, nurses, etc) who have worked with their corresponding "[X] without borders" groups at times. They were always happy to do it and to have done it, but they always had to go back to their regular jobs afterwards so that they could pay the bills.

Re:Are you looking for a Career, or a Cause?

[danspalding]

You're right that I'm looking for a career. Having said that, a non-profit job would be fine. (as long as it paid a living wage for the bay area) (I know)

Re:Are you looking for a Career, or a Cause?

[BarbaraHudson]

You're right that I'm looking for a career. Having said that, a non-profit job would be fine. (as long as it paid a living wage for the bay area) (I know)

In other words, forget it.

""The CS degree for the 21st century" So you're going to Hackreactor for training? BwahHaHaHa ...

Become a Software Engineer.

You’ll begin Hack Reactor with a feeling of excitement and anticipation. Twelve weeks later, you’ll follow the footsteps of our trailblazing alumni, taking the methodologies and best practices you perfected at our coding bootcamp to your next job. We’ve built world class software engineering curriculum and programming courses. However, Hack Reactor is, above all else, a world-class learning environment.

Total Tuition
$17,780

There are three types of lies:
1. Lies others tell you
2. Lies you tell others,
3. Lies you tell yourself.

You've been conned (#1). Time to stop conning yourself (#3).

No, you cannot become a "software engineer" in 12 weeks. You'll just be another webmonkey.

Re:Are you looking for a Career, or a Cause?

[damn_registrars]

You're right that I'm looking for a career. Having said that, a non-profit job would be fine. (as long as it paid a living wage for the bay area) (I know)

There was a time when a lot of really smart people could get by on the old mantra of "find what you want to do, and the money will follow". That time, unfortunately, is not now. Do something important that helps a lot of people, or live comfortably; you can't do both - at least, not in the first 40-50 years of your life.

I highly recommend you find a job that pays well first. Then find a weekend hobby that allows you to use your skills "for good". I wish I could suggest otherwise but I have seen far too many cases that demonstrate that not to be the case.

Re:Are you looking for a Career, or a Cause?

[BarbaraHudson]

Try again. Just because you know javascript does not make you a software engineer. It makes you a webmonkey.

Honest question

[Anubis IV]

Doesn't the FOSS movement fill this need when it comes to programming? Unlike engineers, who may need to go into remote areas in order to help build wells or other pieces of infrastructure that are necessary for survival, most of a programmer's work (though admittedly not all) either can't be done on-site or simply needn't be done on-site. Rather, you're more dependent on the people having reached some minimum threshold already (e.g. have a computer, have an Internet connection, etc.), at which point providing free and open source software would mean not only allowing them to benefit from your efforts, but could also potentially benefit others in similar circumstances.

I'm not even a big FOSS proponent (i.e. never contributed anything to an OSS project, still don't have a github account, work for a consulting company that does custom applications mostly for oil and gas clients), but to me that seems like the obvious question to ask. When it comes to technology, the borders aren't there, so you don't need a group in order to reach people halfway around the world.

Human Rights Data Analysis Group

[bubbl07]

There's also the HRDAG [hrdag.org]. They do a lot of data analysis, but that requires engineering talent. Lots of consultative-type work that has an impact. See the podcast at YANSS [youarenotsosmart.com] for more info. *Previously posted as AC because I forgot to log in. Oops.

It's the linux missionaries

[slashmydots]

But seriously, every single country has proven that if you give computer technology to a 3rd world country, they commit crimes on a massive scale with them. So I'd prefer it be NOBODY.

Two cents from someone who did this.

[oublye]

I did tech work and tech education in two developing countries so here is what think.

You should listen to some of the other posters and get your feet wet to see about volunteering in a disadvantage local community in any tech capacity. The developing world is gonna to be orders of magnitude worse than the first world ghetto in terms of resources and poorly executed or vaporware jobs done by predecessors. Also, most people up to the most high in a developing country are going view any type of computer professional as an expert in all IT skills so this local volunteering could help you learn to wear the hats. Check out http:idealist.org to get a local gig.

If you want to get a feel for what the computing environment is in a low resource country without reliable power or broadband, check out this white paper http://www.inveneo.org/2014/07.... The organization Inveneo does well-reputed work as a network and systems integration partner in third world countries. You can also look at the large organizations such as MSF, UN, Partners in Health, US-AID, CARE, VSO and try to apply to the IT area for a job or a volunteer. The paid jobs are going to weight past volunteer experience in a developing country pretty strongly.

But from you talked about, you are interested in the software side. Developing nations generally don't have good electrical power or networking so those type of professionals are more in need than software professionals. I think if you want to get job doing that a combination of any volunteer experience in a developing country, and a remote contribution to a major humanitarian open source project would be the way forward. Software projects to watch that receive attention in the global development scene are http://www.ushahidi.com/, Humanitarian Open Street Map Team, http://hot.openstreetmap.org/ and Open Medical Record System Open MRS. http://openmrs.org/

Re:Looking for...

[jones_supa]

Hello, guys! I've been working on and now I'm looking for some job in tech. Because Slashdot is a job board, do you guys have any ideas?

Well, as you said, Slashdot is a job board, so just use it: http://slashdot.org/job_board.pl

Check out Benetech (.org)

[gcapiel]

I worked there for 4.5 years and loved the experience.

Re:Looking for...

[danspalding]

I think you're being sarcastic, but this is actually helpful. I go for years forgetting that /. has a job board. Having said that, I was looking for some out of the box suggestions, which I've gotten a few of - like HRDAG in the parent comment. Keep 'em coming!

Re:Nerds Without Borders

[Fubari]

oops. thanks for the fix

http://www.nerdswithoutborders.com/

That's not the right website for NWB - that's some kind of tech blog with adverts.

The correct site is: http://nerdswithoutborders.net/

fairtraderecycling.org

[retroworks]

It's an international group which helps defend falsely accused "geeks of color". Here are two recent examples of FTR projects.

1. Ambassador program flies students and techs overseas to meet and qualify buyers of used tech who people are afraid to sell to based on "ewaste" myths. http://resource-recycling.com/...

2. Defense and petitions of UK TV repairman and ex-pat Nigerian Joe Benson, imprisoned in UK for "e-waste crime" based on "common knowledge" that 80% of exports of used equipment to Africa are burned in primitive dumps. FairTradeRecycling got the UN to fund actual research of the containerloads in question, which revealed 91% reuse and repair, better than brand new product, and found the African geeks who buy and repair used equipment were earning 6 times average wages (Ghana, Nigeria). http://resource-recycling.com/...

Disclosure, I'm the founder.

Just go for MSF

[jmd]

http://www.msf.org/work-msf

First, do no harm

[noda132]

MSF addresses severe problems (education shortfall, brain drain) that particularly impact the field of medicine. The problem is specific to medecine because it takes a decade of education to train a single doctor.

There is no equivalent problem in the field of technology, so there is no equivalent organization.

There are already people in developing countries who know how to use JavaScript and would love to apply their skills. And they'll (hopefully) be better at it than you, because they understand the local issues better than you ever will.

You can probably do more good, in a utilitarian sense, by getting a job in America and donating everything you can spare to a nonprofit in a developing country. That nonprofit can hire computer people with the money, building up that country's computer-person economy.

Volunteering overseas isn't a bad idea. But it isn't very humanitarian. Acknowledge that you're volunteering for your own reasons, and try not to make too much of an impact.

Doctors without borders of tech?

[russotto]

I don't know who it is, but I'm morally convinced there's a CSS joke in there somewhere.

Graph databases

[Tablizer]

Graph databases? Why?

Saving lives with JavaScript?

[dutchwhizzman]

Doctors Without Borders risk their lives giving medical aid to people that are in such dire conditions that "normal" medical people can't or won't work there anymore. They do it without asking the people they treat for any compensation.

How would you put the ability to write JavaScript anywhere in the same ball park? If you want to help out in any way, learn a medical skill and go out in the field with MSF. Don't ride on those heroes names in your arm chair with your covert job seeking advertisement. While you may want to do good, JavaScript can be written anywhere on the planet and used elsewhere. Stopping some four year old kid from bleeding to death because they just got shelled with a "barrel bomb" dropped from a helicopter can't.

This may seem a bit harsh, but my girlfriend works for MSF. She left last Friday to go on a "field trip".

Re:Saving lives with JavaScript?

[Anonymous Coward]

I work for MSF. True there's nothing in the field for IT people, but there are interesting IT positions in our HQs (Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Barcelona and Geneva).

Re:Saving lives with JavaScript?

[danspalding]

I understand where you're coming from. I'm not looking to go out in the field & heroically save lives. What I'm looking for is a mission-driven organization that does bold, important work that I can contribute to, maybe one that's technology-based, maybe not. I thought using MSF's name in the subject of this question would make that clear but it's obviously been a distraction instead. There's actually been a few good suggestions so far, ones which I may not have found on my own, like Benetech and HRDAG. Frankly, it's also good to know that there's not a plethora of organizations in tech out there doing good, important work that I'm just oblivious to.

Re:Saving lives with JavaScript?

[danspalding]

Exactly. This would be a dream job - coming up with applications for doctors within MSF to work together more effectively, or better document their ideas and innovations to improve the organizations' effectiveness and emergency medicine in crisis situations. So is that one emerging consensus? Enterprise-level work for a great organization (that isn't technology-based)?

Hackers For Charity

[JCHerbsleb]

Sounds like maybe what you're looking for is Johnny Long's Hackers for Charity. http://www.hackersforcharity.o...

This all we got? man, time to start something

[nvrslowdown2]

I have been looking for answer to this question for years, nothing here looks impressive. Seems like we need to build up Engineers without Borders or start something new. Just sayin

Nerds Without Grilfriends

[FacePlant]

Nerds Without Grilfriends