Slashdot Mirror


Machine Learning Used To Predict Military Suicides

HughPickens.com (3830033) writes David Wagner writes that a predictive computer model using machine learning methods is helping to identify soldiers in the United States Army most likely to commit suicide. Computers combed through data on more than 40,000 soldiers who'd been hospitalized for mental health problems looking at 421 variables on each soldier drawn from 38 military data systems. Using a method known as "machine learning," the researchers identified roughly two dozen factors that are most important in predicting soldiers most likely to commit suicide. The soldiers most likely to take their own lives were men with past suicidal behavior and a history of psychiatric disorders and criminal offenses, including weapons possession and verbal assaults. Soldiers with hearing loss also faced heightened risk — a strong indicator that they had suffered a head injury. So did enlisting in the Army after age 27, most likely because those soldiers had already experienced trouble finding their way in life. "There's this group that comes to the Army later in life — they're smart, they have skills, they tend not to be married and they have no career or have left a career to join," Dr. Kessler said. "We don't know why they should be at higher risk, but they appear to be."

Murray Stein, co-author of the new study, found that among soldiers recently discharged from psychiatric hospitals, more than half of suicides were committed by just five percent of patients. "The most impressive thing is that they identified this high-risk group in the hospital, and by just focusing on one in 20 of them, you're really dramatically improving your ability to predict," says Dr. Mark Olfson, a professor of psychiatry at Columbia University who was not involved in the study. "Clinicians don't do a very good job predicting suicide risk, even though we think we do."

74 comments

  1. How banal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The soldiers most likely to take their own lives were men with past suicidal behavior

    More surprising tales from the site that gives you news for nerds, and US government propaganda.

    1. Re:How banal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How to prevent many military suicides: ask your soldiers to kill other human beings and endure the horrors of war only for purposes of legitimate defense against a foreign nation that actually initiated hostilities without any sort of provocation. See that would be the difference between heroic defenders and murderers. Most people are not sociopaths and have a hard time living with knowing they murdered a bunch of people for no good reason.

      As the justifications for our little undeclared wars gets flimsier and flimsier, the rates of soldier suicides and mental health issues goes up. War has always been hell, always involved PTSD (shellshock), etc, but the soldiers who stopped Hitler didn't have the rate of suicide found in the soldiers who wondered why the hell they're in Iraq blowing up people who aren't threatening the USA.

      But the military-industrial-complex Eisenhower tried to warn us about, it cries out to be fed blood and treasure. Defense contractors have some real power in Washington. CIA funded and trained Al-Qaida (research this, then pass judgment, like an intelligent person) and just loves overthrowing democratically elected foreign governments. Eisenhower could see this coming over 50 years ago because he was informed and paid attention instead of drooling in front of a TV worrying about football and Taylor Swift. If you think the mass media cares about doing anything other than keeping you asleep so you vote for a major party and buy more frivolous shit you don't need, you haven't critically examined it at all.

    2. Re:How banal. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Humans are greedy and nations will always fight over natural resources, it's just what it is, bad or good, wrong or right.. If you go into the Army believing so strongly in nationalistic ideals its really your own fault the enemy wasn't so clear or collateral damage wasn't so clear either after you get yourself into it. Nationalism is not much different than racism.

      As well your statement claiming soldiers coming back from wars today have more problems than those in "more justified" past wars (where PTSD was less understood and recognized) is weak:

      In California, World War II-era veterans are killing themselves at a rate that’s nearly four times higher than that of people the same age with no military service.
      The suicide rate among these veterans is also roughly double the rate of veterans under 35, those who are returning home from Iraq and Afghanistan.

      https://www.baycitizen.org/news/veterans/suicide-rates-soar-among-wwii-vets/

    3. Re:How banal. by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      But the military-industrial-complex Eisenhower tried to warn us about, it cries out to be fed blood and treasure.

      You mean the one that he founded. It wasn't a warning, it was an apology.

  2. spittake by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    "...more than half of suicides were committed by just five percent of patients."

    The proportion that weren't committed by patients are referred to as "homicides".

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:spittake by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Are you retarded? ->Take 5 of the most suicidal veterans from a random sampling of 100 patients. If 10 patients kill themselves, 5 of them will be this group of suicide magnets.

      Back on topic:
      I'm not surprised by their findings since I meet almost every one of their selection criteria(and I am once again battling major depression). Sleep schedule was back on track but depression was over-whelming... So I took my antidepressants and now my depression is manageable and my circadian rhythm just rotated by 3 hours. Yay for circadian rythm disorders!

      But is it the chicken or the egg?

      Similarly, how many hours of sleep are required per week to NOT be struggling with your own thoughts?

      Sorry, lost focus there(I'm a little delirious right now). The point I was trying to make is these soldiers never wanted to join the military in the first place. It was a desperate decision of last resort when all else failed to fix their lives. When the military couldn't give them whatever they thought they were looking for... well: they don't have a plan "C" at that point. They used their ace in the hole, and *real shocker*: the people avoiding military service didn't like it once they were in!

      Now what? Were do they go from here? They already gave up on everything but the last resort and now they've given up on the last resort as well. They're broken and after X years of trying to make the hunger go away, they're tired of eating, and tired of doctors telling them to "get some exercise and a light therapy box".

      These soldiers are the outliers that fell through the cracks of the rationing of VA benefits resources. Oh well! The number was never going to be "zero"!

    2. Re:spittake by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      If it's possible to find persons at risk and counter their behavior it's good. Most interesting are the high-skilled persons that joins late. It's not easy to put a diagnosis straight on each case, and if someone is depressed the cause may vary, ranging from bipolar disorder to post traumatic stress reaction and adrenaline junkies.

      Sudden relief from stress to a mode of passivity can be highly problematic for some persons.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  3. 5% of patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If "more than half of suicides were committed by just five percent of patients", then all the suicides were committed by just ten percent of patients. Assuming at most one suicide per patient.

    1. Re:5% of patients? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      If "more than half of suicides were committed by just five percent of patients", then all the suicides were committed by just ten percent of patients.

      No, that is not what they are saying. What they are saying is that if they screen for suicide likelihood, they can identify a sub-group consisting of 5% of the patients that commits 50% of the suicides. People in this subgroup are about 20 times more likely to commit suicide than the average patient. So it may make sense to focus intervention therapy on that subgroup.

    2. Re:5% of patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that was a very poorly written sentence. Your explanation is much better.

    3. Re:5% of patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This other 95% of "programmers" like to use Ruby, JavaScript and PHP

      ...or the only language they know is Java.

      With that addition the rest of your comment is spot on.

    4. Re:5% of patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      JavaScript includes Java. It's basically just Java without the VM, without real OO, without a good class library, and with a whole lot of other really shitty language features. Aside from those minor differences, they're exactly the same.

    5. Re:5% of patients? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yeah, that was a very poorly written sentence. Your explanation is much better.

      He was able to re-explain it because he did something that is declining in popularity on Slashdot: he comprehended what he read.

    6. Re:5% of patients? by Simply+Curious · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Good writing eliminates ambiguity. Good reading chooses the most likely interpretation in cases of ambiguity. It is immediately obvious that good reading can alleviate the effects of bad writing, but cannot eliminate the effects, as the most likely interpretation still has some chance of being wrong.

      As it is written, the sentence "More than half of the suicides were committed by just five percent of patients." is as silly as "Sixty percent of the time, works every time."

    7. Re:5% of patients? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > Good writing eliminates ambiguity

      I'm afraid not in most fields. Good writing, in general, entertains or enlightens the reader. Part of the point of poetry is to _condense_ meaning into as small a message as feasible. The result is inevitable ambiguity.

      Good _scientific_ writing, like good engineering documentation, is a bit unusual in its need for clear, unambiguous messages.

    8. Re:5% of patients? by Wootery · · Score: 1

      I'm afraid not in most fields.

      What? No. Well-written text communicates ideas clearly. Are you seriously suggesting this isn't the case?

  4. It used to? by killkillkill · · Score: 1

    Why doesn't machine learning predict suicides any longer?

  5. The New Magic by lorinc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stop speaking of machine learning as if it's a new kind of black magic. I know it sounds better than "using a mathematical algorithm" or "performed statistical analysis", but to me it sounds as ridiculous as the "quantum whatever" of the 90's. Seriously, ML is being hyped beyond reasonable.

    1. Re:The New Magic by blackiner · · Score: 4, Informative

      It is also such a general term as to be useless to anyone with some AI know how. Did they perform Bayesian analysis? A neural net? Get into the details. Anyway, I think the general public would be shocked to see how utterly simple some of these algorithms are. Most are just really basic probabilities generated off some input...

    2. Re:The New Magic by matbury · · Score: 1

      Agreed. This looks more like a simple, straightforward combing through the data and looking for correlations. Take a small sample size first, find correlations and then apply it to a larger data set. Researchers have been doing this for decades, long before there was any such thing as "machine learning." i guess recursive algorithm doesn't catch the press' attention as much.

    3. Re:The New Magic by dinfinity · · Score: 4, Informative

      FTFA ( http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.co... ):
      "Administrative data [...] were used to predict suicides [...] using machine learning methods (regression trees and penalized regressions) [...]."

      So, decision trees: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

    4. Re:The New Magic by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      But - he did it on a computer. That's special. And I'll bet the computer was connected to the Internet. That's even more special.

      Up next - they'll get a Facebook page.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    5. Re:The New Magic by jd2112 · · Score: 1

      But - he did it on a computer. That's special. And I'll bet the computer was connected to the Internet. That's even more special.

      Up next - they'll get a Facebook page.

      On a mobile device. Soon to be connected to 'The Internet of things'.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    6. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Decision trees would be a good fit in this case, If you had to pick an way of going about it. it isn't a bad one.

    7. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means that can go though a LOT of data rather then a little amount of data.... which means you can use a bigger feature set, so yeah, it makes a difference.

      It also means that are going for a evidence based approach, which is a whole LOT better then what they were doing before.

    8. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that they used machine learning instead of mathematical algorithms or statistical analyses. The fact that you conflate the three is rather boggling, since ML is nothing like the other two.

    9. Re:The New Magic by ememisya · · Score: 1

      Statistically (well let's call it machine learning analysis for the sake of the article) the military has always been impressed by electronics, and there seems to be this trend of amazement at Big Data, given the amount of signals being collected in any given military institution processed through iteratively data adjusted logic gates. I admit it's pretty cool, but it makes a fatal assumption, heuristic analysis is always correct. Take the case of someone who wasn't suicidal, fits the criteria of "he who must be suicidal", if everyone within the community of this person starts treating them like they're suicidal, well that might make them suicidal. I just hope all they do is send a pamphlet otherwise I feel for the non-married 27 year-olds in the military.

    10. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you've never been suicidal before? Having more people care about you doesn't make you suicidal.

      Most suicidal people don't have issues telling others that they're suicidal when asked. I know I didn't, though no one ever asked. They just told me I should smile more and implied maybe then more people would like me. Let me give you a tip. NEVER TELL PEOPLE TO SMILE MORE. Normally there's a reason why they're not smiling and it makes depressed people considerably worse. Thought process: "Hey, I can see that you're sad and everyone else notices too. But I'm not going to help you in anyway. No, actually we don't want you around if you're not going to be happier for our sake. Go away and stop annoying us with your sadness. Gee, thanks for the advice. So killing myself will make the world a better place for the people I thought I was friends with. " There goes one of the big reasons to stay alive: not hurting others. Now you're helping them by killing yourself. That's how suicidal people see the world. "Smile more" = "We'd be better if you were dead". Sorry, this paragraph didn't go in the direction I had planned.

    11. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it somewhat depressing that the term "big data" is being applied to suicides. That's one area where it would be really nice to not have "big data." Ah well, such is life.

    12. Re:The New Magic by ememisya · · Score: 1

      I completely understand you. It's fairly normal to feel suicidal at least once in your life, it reiterates the fact of mortality and lets people sort out their priorities given a finite amount of time creates the concept of things being precious. The point I was trying to make was if people are in a fairly good mood, and all their friends start talking about suicide all of a sudden, it might sway their thoughts to a darker zone where none existed before. It's just how we tend to consume information and generate opinions based on it. I guess in short my point is assumption, is the mother of all fuck ups.

    13. Re:The New Magic by ememisya · · Score: 1

      Agreed :) Talk about reducing the total entropy of a human being into a few gigs of storage space and organized LEDs.

    14. Re:The New Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As I don't have a close group or friends or close social network, I've never experienced that. Thanks for the insight.

  6. Machine Learning by tomhath · · Score: 1
    I don't think the state of AI will be anywhere near human thought for a long time. But dealing with huge sets of data containing many, many variables is a reasonable application for "Machine Learning". Although I kind of wonder why a conventional statistical analysis wouldn't have revealed the major factors. Anyone who has served in the military would know that an older, more intelligent enlistee probably has other issues (else why are they where they are?).

    Some of the factors associated with higher risk were expected, like previous suicide attempts, a history of using weapons and symptoms of severe traumatic brain injury, such as hearing loss. Others were less so, like a higher I.Q., and being older than 26 at enlistment.

    1. Re:Machine Learning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone who has served in the military would know that an older, more intelligent enlistee probably has other issues (else why are they where they are?).

      I agree. I considered the military when I was 26. I was fired from a job and had nothing going for me (unemployment benefits was the only thing that kept me alive). The military is a way to escape your life and try to start over. But I had the foresight to know I would have been kicked out of the military too. Sleep disorders suck. You can't even work as a cashier if you can't wake up on time. I haven't been able to figure out any job I could keep long term. I went back to school to delay the inevitable. I'm going to end up begging during the night in some major city. No one wants someone who is always late, even if the job is well down afterwards.

  7. "There's this group that comes to the Army later i by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There's this group that comes to the Army later in life — they're smart, they have skills, they tend not to be married and they have no career or have left a career to join," Dr. Kessler said. "We don't know why they should be at higher risk, but they appear to be."

    Isn't that sort of obvious?

  8. Has anyone thought, that these sucidees are right? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

    When I look at the world today . . . I see Obama threatening to use dictatorial powers . . . which will cause the Republicans in Congress to shut the government down . . . while ISIS is making a mighty romp . . . and no Muslim countries seemed to be concerned about that . . . Putin, is, while just being Putin.

    And, and and more and. I'm trying hard do decide why I am not committing suicide myself.

    Oh, I need to teach a class at TU Darmstadt in a couple of weeks, and need to create a presentation. Never mind.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
  9. JavaScript includes Java WT*??? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 0

    JavaScript includes Java

    No wonder you posted that garbage anonymously.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:JavaScript includes Java WT*??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you actually refute what the GP expressed, rather than writing it off as "garbage"? Maybe you could present some evidence showing how the GP is wrong? Because right now the GP has given us facts, but you've given us ad hominem.

    2. Re:JavaScript includes Java WT*??? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      Of course I can. Search for "Javascrpt is not Java" to get a bit of history here

      JavaScript is a completely separate technology from Java. Java was the "in thing" back in the days when Brendan Eich at Netscape created a programming language that was originally going to be called LiveScript, so unfortunately they decided to rename it from LiveScript to JavaScript in the hope of catching the media’s interest.

      and here

      JavaScript, aka Mocha, aka LiveScript, aka JScript, aka ECMAScript,

      The Java- prefix suggests that JavaScript is somehow related to Java, that it is a subset or less capable version of Java. It seems that the name was intentionally selected to create confusion, and from confusion comes misunderstanding. JavaScript is not interpreted Java. Java is interpreted Java. JavaScript is a different language.

      The Question: What's the difference between JavaScript and Java? The best answer on stackoverflow

      Java and Javascript are similar like Car and Carpet are similar.

      So, you got any evidence showing the GP was right? Because the GP, contrary to your claim, ignored the facts.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:JavaScript includes Java WT*??? by Wootery · · Score: 1

      Maybe you could present some evidence showing how the GP is wrong?

      Not difficult: JavaScript is dynamically typed. Java is statically typed. This is a fundamental difference between the two languages.

  10. Perhaps they could check search histories. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    If someone's been searching for PTSD, Major Depressive Disorder and Suicidal ideation, maybe they're at risk?

    People at risk tend to isolate themselves during bouts of depression (not just "the blues"), so they turn to the internet.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Perhaps they could check search histories. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they're searching for those things then they're trying to understand themselves and get better. Depressed people turn to escapism, not knowledge.

    2. Re:Perhaps they could check search histories. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If they're searching for those things then they're trying to understand themselves and get better. Depressed people turn to escapism, not knowledge.

      Your two sentences contradict each other. If they're depressed and searching for terms like PTSD, Major Depressive Disorder and Suicidal Ideation, they're not "turning to escapism."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  11. Re:Need a machine to tell you this? by mrbester · · Score: 1

    Verbal assaults? Oh no, Cpl Wilson yelled at me and called me names. True, I shat in his kit bag for seven days running, but he's clearly suicidal for raising his voice. Plus he hurt my feelings so he's a sociopath as well. Best lock him up before he hurts someone.

    Fucking pussies.

    --
    "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
  12. Misreading it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Soldiers with hearing loss also faced heightened risk — a strong indicator that they had suffered a head injury."

    Wouldnt head injury/tbi already be one of the tracked stats? Maybe they're writing off how sucky hearing loss can be. The constant unrelenting ringing not only can take over a persons world, its also painful and very discomforting, especially if its on only one side. Its not just a Neeeee, to a lot of people it sounds like a modem chirping or like a "sssssss" steam valve constantly, or a bunch of dissonant tones. Play two notes on a piano immediately next to each other & imagine that in one ear forever (try it with headphones).

    People without bad tinnitus dont know how distressing it can be. Its not like regular sound, the noise is more direct than anything you can experience acoustically,

  13. non-issue? by rubycodez · · Score: 2

    Once corrected for age demographics (which people tallying raw numbers usually forget to do), the suicide rate in US military is lower than civilian population. Rather impressive for organization whose purpose is to kill, maim and blow up shit.

    1. Re:non-issue? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Once corrected for age demographics (which people tallying raw numbers usually forget to do), the suicide rate in US military is lower than civilian population.

      You didn't actually read the articles, did you? That was only true up to the last decade.

      Traditionally, the Army has been psychologically healthier than the rest of society because of screening, fitness standards and access to health care. Soldiers committed suicide at about half the rate of civilians with similar demographics. But starting in 2004, the Army rate has essentially caught up.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:non-issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Once corrected for age demographics (which people tallying raw numbers usually forget to do), the suicide rate in US military is lower than civilian population.

      You didn't actually read the articles, did you? That was only true up to the last decade.

      Traditionally, the Army has been psychologically healthier than the rest of society because of screening, fitness standards and access to health care. Soldiers committed suicide at about half the rate of civilians with similar demographics. But starting in 2004, the Army rate has essentially caught up.

      Couldn't it be the difference between fighting for something you believe in and fight for Bush or Obama?

    3. Re:non-issue? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Once corrected for age demographics (which people tallying raw numbers usually forget to do), the suicide rate in US military is lower than civilian population.

      There's probably all manner of "corrections" you can do to make yourself feel all superior and to denigrate the folks actually doing the work.
       

      Rather impressive for organization whose purpose is to kill, maim and blow up shit.

      Why do you think that's impressive? You think everyone who served is nothing but a suicidal maniac who wants nothing more than to "kill, maim, and blow up shit"?

    4. Re:non-issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Something you believe"... like Vietnam?

    5. Re:non-issue? by markass530 · · Score: 1

      Your grade school level of understanding as to the purpose of a military is impressive

    6. Re:non-issue? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The number of suicides among 5 year olds is rather low (luckily) so it does make sense to compare age-by-age. There are just not that many 5 year olds in the army. We'd have to compare 21 year olds in the army with 21 year old civilians; that's a fair "correction".

      As for the "rather impressive", PTSD is a major factor in suicide and quite common in the military. For that reason alone, you'd expect higher suicide rates. Then again, a sense of purpose decreases suicide, which probably benefits soldiers.

    7. Re:non-issue? by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Once corrected for age demographics (which people tallying raw numbers usually forget to do), the suicide rate in US military is lower than civilian population.

      There's probably all manner of "corrections" you can do to make yourself feel all superior and to denigrate the folks actually doing the work.

      Huh? How is it "denigrating" the military to note that they have a lower suicide rate than the average population? I would have thought that having a lower suicide rate would be a GOOD thing.

      (By the way, I'm ignoring the fact noted elsewhere in this thread that TFA basically says the military is now approaching the average suicide rate of the general population, even though it had been less in the past. Point is -- I can't possibly see how it's an insult to note that a group has a lower suicide rate than other people.)

      Rather impressive for organization whose purpose is to kill, maim and blow up shit.

      Why do you think that's impressive? You think everyone who served is nothing but a suicidal maniac who wants nothing more than to "kill, maim, and blow up shit"?

      Perhaps I'm being too generous to GP here, but I really have no clue where you're getting this attitude from. It sounds to me like GP was noting how stressful and violent military life can be. People who have higher stress in their jobs tend to have higher rates of depression. Groups with higher rates of depression have higher suicide rates. And let's not forget the PTSD mentioned by the AC too.

      Yet, despite all of those extra stresses and likely psychological and physical problems which military personnel might encounter in the course of their violent jobs where they not only have to kill or maim but are at risk of being killed or being maimed -- DESPITE all of that, they mostly have a lower rate of suicide than the general population, and only in the past decade or so has it gone up.

      As someone who has great respect for those who serve in the military and protect the rest of the population (and who has many family members who have done so), YES -- I do think that's darn IMPRESSIVE. It speaks to the character and training and fortitude of these soldiers that despite being asked to do things that cause emotional and psychological trauma, they manage to maintain enough psychological stability to not succumb to suicide as much as the average person who does not have to deal with such stress.

    8. Re:non-issue? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      It depends how the US military is counted. A huge number of civilian like staff, air force, army... could be used to hide deep counts.
      So what can be counted on? The Air Force has very expensive equipment to look after. So great care is taken to only allow selected, well tested people near that equipment.
      That would sort out most of the human issues long term and offer amazing statistics.
      Other areas of the US mil may also like to have well tested people near some of the more interesting systems. Great numbers again due to expert testing and constant staff sorting.
      The real issue is the head injury or meds used during long occupation tours.
      Keep the best staff looked after and try and see what is left over for the rest.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    9. Re:non-issue? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      No, you're citing the incorrect statistic of the article.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05...

    10. Re:non-issue? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1
      From your link:

      an analysis of Pentagon data shows that the Department of Defense uses numbers that may underestimate its suicide rate. A different methodology, like one employed by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, would result in a military rate equivalent to or above the comparable civilian rate, experts say.

      Bob Anderson, head statistician for mortality statistics at the C.D.C., said the Pentagon’s approach resulted in a suicide rate that “will be lower than it should be.”

      “It will underestimate the mortality rate,” he said

      ... and ...

      But over the years, senior military officials have regularly used suicide rates in testimony before Congress, medical journals and other public pronouncements to underscore the relative resiliency of the military population.

      A result may have been to play down the problem, some experts say.

      Dr. Elspeth Cameron Ritchie, a psychiatrist and retired Army colonel who was once a senior Pentagon adviser on mental health issues, said that when she raised concerns about suicide in 2005, senior military officers did not consider the problem significant partly because the suicide rate seemed lower than for civilians.

      Dr. Ritchie said she believed that the military is moving more aggressively now to stem the problem. But the prevailing attitude at the time, she said, “was kind of like, ‘This just isn’t a big problem.’ ”

      “They really did not focus on suicide,” she said.

      So, still the same.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  14. Here's a Novel Concept by CanHasDIY · · Score: 1

    Instead of using computers to figure out who's most likely to take their own lives, how about we use machine learning to figure out why these people are killing themselves, and fix the actual problem?

    --
    An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
    1. Re:Here's a Novel Concept by zippthorne · · Score: 1

      So, you don't think that finding common characteristics that are good predictors of behavior provides information that can be used in researching the root cause?

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    2. Re:Here's a Novel Concept by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Probably because that would be orders of magnitude more difficult. For numerous reasons. And risk factors are a huge first step in the process.

    3. Re:Here's a Novel Concept by Livius · · Score: 1

      Maybe figuring out why will be easier if we have an idea about who.

  15. Re:suicides are normal by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

    It would seem that some profit taking by a psychiatrist might benefit yourself as well.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  16. Wo-0-O-0-o-0-O-0-osh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wo-0-O-0-o-0-O-0-o-0-O-0-o-0-O-0-o-0-osh

    JavaScript includes Java

    JavaScript = Java + Script
    QED

    Filter error: Too much repetition.

    Your comment violated the "postersubj" compression filter. Try less whitespace and/or less repetition in the subject line.

    Unironic captcha: drunker

  17. And now the important question? by redwraith94 · · Score: 1

    Why should it be illegal to commit suicide?

    I don't feel that if someone wishes to take their life we have a right to stop them. It is their existence, their experience, their decision, their right. We should not encourage it, but if we want to reduce the number of people who do it, then help them with their problems, don't go hunting them down, and locking them up in white room - mattress walled asylums in straight jackets, doped up on who knows what.

    It's dangerous to allow the government the ability to predict, and then potentially take action based on it, far more dangerous than simply leaving people alone, even should they choose that awful path. People are creative, if they really want to leave this world, they will.

    --
    I art more snarky, and terse than thou. I art Slashdot!
    1. Re:And now the important question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says it should be illegal to commit suicide? How would you enforce that? How do you punish someone for killing themselves -- eternal hellfire?

      Preventing suicides and saving people from their own self-destructive impulses is completely unrelated to whether killing yourself should be legal or not. In my opinion saving someone's life is a moral imperative, even against their momentary will. Many survivors of suicide attempts are grateful for being saved.

  18. Re:Need a machine to tell you this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How did this get a score of 1? All the comment did was take a statistical conclusion drawn from data, create a pretend monologue for an imaginary person using this scientific conclusion as the basis, and finally insults said imaginary person(s) for... falsely accusing a second imaginary person? It's literally nonsense. He insulted his own fictional character.

  19. Re:Has anyone thought, that these sucidees are rig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please stop bullying suicidal people. That may not have been what you meant, but it's definitely what you did.

  20. At least they won't take away our guns by nbauman · · Score: 1

    Or alcohol.

    Thank you, NRA and Congress, for giving our brave service men and women the freedom and personal responsibility to kill themselves when things get too tough.

    http://touch.latimes.com/#sect...
    Programs to prevent psychological problems in troops questioned
    By Alan Zarembo
    February 20, 2014, 7:34 p.m.

    Many federal programs aimed at preventing psychological problems in military service members and their families have not been evaluated correctly to determine whether they are working and are not supported by science, says a new report commissioned by the Defense Department.

    "A lot of their programs don’t have any good data behind them," said Kenneth Warner, a professor of public health at the University of Michigan who led the Institute of Medicine committee that produced the report. "We remain uncertain about which approaches work and which ones are ineffective."

    At the same time, some proven interventions are not being used, the committee found. Researchers said there was ample evidence to suggest that limiting access to personal firearms on military bases would reduce suicides. About 60% of service members who take their own lives do it with guns — usually their own.

    "Means restriction has been demonstrated to work," said David Rudd, a psychologist and suicide expert at the University of Memphis who served on the committee.

    But in 2011, Congress prohibited the Defense Department from regulating legally owned personal firearms and ammunition on military bases.

    http://iom.edu/Reports/2014/Pr...
    Preventing Psychological Disorders in Service Members and Their Families: An Assessment of Programs
    February 20, 2014

    Among the small number of DOD-sponsored reintegration programs that exist, none appears to be based on scientific evidence. The committee was unable to identify any DOD evidence-based programs addressing the prevention of domestic abuse. More recently, the services have implemented a number of prevention interventions to address military sexual assault, yet a DOD review found that critical evaluation components needed to measure their effectiveness are missing.

    The committee also found that environmental strategies with strong evidence of effectiveness are underutilized, such as restricting access to lethal means such as personal firearms to prevent suicide or homicide in domestic violence cases or placing restrictions on the sale of alcohol to reduce substance misuse.

    In place of these proven approaches, the committee typically found interventions such as campaigns, Internet tools, or in-person events with no evidence for their effectiveness at preventing the targeted problem.

  21. the world is fucked up and bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fuck everything. there is no point...

  22. "Using a method known as "machine learning," " by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Machine learning is its own field of research and not just a method. That sentence is as informative as "Google uses machines known as "computers" to make money"

  23. OT?: One answer to question on late-joiners by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "There's this group that comes to the Army later in life — they're smart, they have skills, they tend not to be married and they have no career or have left a career to join," Dr. Kessler said. "We don't know why they should be at higher risk, but they appear to be."

    I graduated university with a BS in CS in 2008, right into the recession. Bam. I had been previously diagnosed with clinical depression, and it never really improved (part of the reason it took me 5.5 years instead of the normal 4.5 for my university). My folks lived in rural Iowa and I lived with them a bit while job hunting, but was unable to find anything. I then moved into a relative's home outside of Denver, but after six months there I still had no prospects. With my (rather large) student loan payments starting up soon, I took what I thought was my only option, joining the military.

    The major reason for doing so was the steady paycheck and Student Loan Repayment program, but I had a secondary goal of finding some purpose in life (or just let someone order me around for most of it) and getting self-discipline and confidence, both of which I lacked in spades. For some stupid reason I decided to be 92G, Food Service Specialist, signed in 2009, and went to BCT in 2010. I was 25. After graduating that and AIT, I was assigned to a unit that would test out new gear/tactics. Prior to joining, I had bought into the line of our military being the best in the world. I thought this meant that the soldiers would be excellent people. After spending about 8 months with my unit, I found out that this was the furthest thing from the truth: the Army I saw as full of soldiers, both enlisted and commissioned, that were some of the dumbest, most selfish, unorganized, and petty individuals I have ever had the displeasure of working with.[1] Any attempt I made to improve things I could affect, even if small, was often met with derision or contempt no matter how I tried to address it.

    From what I experienced, we were only the best fighting force in the world only because all the others were somehow even worse than us. Everything I thought I knew was wrong, I lost all faith in humanity, and eventually all hope in myself. After a few weeks of dealing with a heavy amount of this, then learning that a potential change in MOS would take years (if at all, as the military was starting to downsize), I cracked. I tried to go AWOL with the intent of killing myself soon thereafter, but thankfully some relatives talked me out of it and I was admitted to the local military psych ward by my sergeants. I spent three days there, got some new medication, and returned to my unit; 10 months later I was discharged for Failure to Adapt (Honorable Discharge; the official reason was failure to maintain physical fitness, which was true, but everyone involved knew otherwise.)

    So, to answer the question, I think it comes from a lack of purpose and direction being combined with inept leadership. People who join that late in life do so with a partial hope that the military will fill that role, either directly or helping them find it. But, like me, I bet many find that their expectations were far too high and it completely destroys them to the point that they want to destroy themselves. If they had purpose and direction, knowing they would one day be able to get out under the inept leadership, or had no direction but good leadership, they would probably manage, but lacking both is just too heavy on the soul.

    I'm curious if there's any correlation between MOS and suicide rate; couldn't find mention of it in either article I looked at.

    [1] Not that there aren't good people in the military; there are, but I encountered them few and far between. And almost none of them were in a position of heavy influence for our little corner of the military.

  24. It's not that clinicians are bad at predictions... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The problem REALLY is not that clinicians are bad at predictions, the real problem is the near-total lack of access to effective treatment and the range of treatment needed for seriously ill people. The risk factors for suicide are well-known, and have been for a long time. But focusing on some factors and only 5% of people who are suicidal will lead to not treating the others--when all of them are in great need of effective treatment.

    The truly great scandal is that the US does not have an effective mental health system; it hasn't had one since the 1980s.

    The vibrant US mental healthcare system (which offered long-term and all other treatment options) was destroyed by Managed Care in the 1980s. The US had been spending 8-10% of the healthcare dollar on mental illness until then. Managed Care "managed" mental health treatment out of existence by lowering the percentage spent on mental health and addiction to 1-2% of the healthcare dollar. Today Diabetes care gets 8-10% of the healthcare dollar according to the NYTimes.

    Now the largest psychiatric hospitals in the nation are the LA and Cook County (Chicago) jails. We are criminalizing the mentally ill, to the detriment of all. In Austin TX, 75% of people jailed have serious mental health or addiction problems. A staff of 9 psychiatrists is on call to evaluate them, but our local level IV public hospital has no psychiatric beds for evaluation or treatment. And there is little capacity for private inpatient care or treatment in Austin. To get state-funded inpatient psychiatric treatment in TX you have to be committed involuntarily; the state MH system is so underfunded that they refuse to accept people who want to be admitted voluntarily.

    The nation is greatly harmed by the lack of an effective mental health system, 75% of US families are affected by Depression, addiction, or child abuse. This is a tragedy of great proportions.

    Deborah C. Peel, MD
    Boarded Adult Psychiatrist and Freudian Psychoanalyst
    Founder and Chair of Patient Privacy Rights