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Does Being First Still Matter In America?
dcblogs writes At the supercomputing conference, SC14, this week, a U.S. Dept. of Energy offical said the government has set a goal of 2023 as its delivery date for an exascale system. It may be taking a risky path with that amount of lead time because of increasing international competition. There was a time when the U.S. didn't settle for second place. President John F. Kennedy delivered his famous "we choose to go to the moon" speech in 1962, and seven years later a man walked on the moon. The U.S. exascale goal is nine years away. China, Europe and Japan all have major exascale efforts, and the government has already dropped on supercomputing. The European forecast of Hurricane Sandy in 2012 was so far ahead of U.S. models in predicting the storm's path that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration was called before Congress to explain how it happened. It was told by a U.S. official that NOAA wasn't keeping up in computational capability. It's still not keeping up. Cliff Mass, a professor of meteorology at the University of Washington, wrote on his blog last month that the U.S. is "rapidly falling behind leading weather prediction centers around the world" because it has yet to catch up in computational capability to Europe. That criticism followed the $128 million recent purchase a Cray supercomputer by the U.K.'s Met Office, its meteorological agency.
First post!
Table-ized A.I.
If it was really important to solve the problem, TPTB would adequately fun the institutions it has issues with, rather than just calling them before a hearing and pillorying them in the public eye.
If Congress really wanted to increase computational ability, they would apportion more money to NOAA earmarked for that purpose.
It's easier to get mad and shake your fist than write a check.
From TFS:
We only walked on the moon seven years later because we'd already been developing the parts - for as much as six years in the case of the F1 engine. And because President Kennedy died in 1963 (before he could completely back away from the commitment), allowing LBJ to push for funding as a monument.
Not to mention we couldn't really end up in second place - because we were essentially the only runner in the race. The Soviets were years late in starting because they didn't believe we'd actually even stick with it. And even when they did enter the race, it was a half hearted effort with little political support.
You swapped being "first" for Chinese shiny trinkets, paid for by fucking over your family and neighbours, celebrate the tax avoiders, celebrate the torture, just as long as you have yours.
We're something like 17th in education, 10th in life expectancy, 30th in social mobility, 30th in health results for money spent, etc. But with a little concentration we can reclaim first in obesity from Mexico...
There's an expense factor for doing unprecedented things and what's the compelling marketable upside, bragging rights? Marketing?
If the supercomputer can do something better/cheaper/faster at the same time, that's newsworthy maybe. Not incremental bumps of scale.
It's nothing like being first to the moon, it's like going to the moon every few weeks shaving minutes off the trip along with 10 other countries.
There, I said it. The most patriotic of Americans are holding the others back.
Simply put the US population (or at least the portion that politicians pay attention to) seem unwilling to fund being first.
The US may not care about getting the first post, but Tablizer still does!
As father told me many times, the San Francisco Bay Bridge could never be built today.
Yeah, sure. The Democrat party will only fund illegals by borrowing from China to pay for all the junk.
> The European forecast of Hurricane Sandy in 2012 was so far ahead of U.S. models in predicting the storm's path that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration was called before Congress to explain how it happened.
"Because we cannot be competitive at the present reduced funding levels."
PROOF THAT THE GOVERNMENT CANT DO IT! THEREFORE CANCEL THE PROGRAM! /broken as planned
You've obviously been asleep if you think any major party's stance on the matter is that "government is evil."
Instead of being a partisan drumbeater why don't you join us in the human race and lend a fair eye to the situation and you'll understand when being number one simply isn't an option under the two party scam.
First in what? What's the prize?
If the prize is just throwing money down a hole on hardware that will be obsolete the moment it's deployed, then let the other guys win.
If the prize is getting accurate weather forecasts at the lowest cost, then maybe we'd be better off contracting from those countries, using spare cycles from other government agencies that are wasteful and counterproductive (cough, NSA, cough), or writing better software to run on the other guy's hardware and licensing it to them.
The second approach won't allow us to thump our chest and say, "computer that required 10 new hydro-electric dams! BOOYAH! fastest in the WORLD!!!" but it'll accomplish a meaningful goal.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
To the GOP, America is always #1 in everything, no matter what.
Any of those so-called studies that suggest otherwise are nothing but propaganda from the America-hating liberals in the Democrat party.
our government won't strive to be first anymore, but will lay claim to being in the top 50, even if only in its head.
Being first still matters a lot. Just not in the metrics you admire.
External debt? USA#1 at $17E+12 and growing fast. Corporate tax rate? Number one baby. Rate of medical cost growth? We go that. Education cost growth? Ditto. Firearms per capita? We own the whole right hand side of that histogram. Because we lack a 50% peasant population to drop the average (like China) we're still far ahead in per capita carbon production. We're the largest oil producer on Earth as well.
So yeah, #1 still matters.
We've gone from competition to participation in everything.
I see NOAA funding shrinking, not expanding with the upcoming Congress. Why? While they would like to better forecast when the next hurricane will strike the oil-fields in the Gulf- that technology could also be used to forecast possible global warming climate models. In order to guarantee that climate models never came to pass they would be willing to sacrifice a few platforms, couple of miles of coastline, some fish, and workers.
It's a win-win for them.. the platform is is insured (they get their money back), the Govt. and volunteers will clean up the spill, the disaster was an unpreventable 'Act of God', and, no climate model to indicate that what they are doing is actually a long-term bad thing.
Unfortunately the entire environmental argument will boil down to a tragedy of the commons. Perfect time to reflect on that will be when Earth looks a whole lot like Venus.
No, it's about the Constitution. The US (as in United States) was never intended as designed to become ruled by some huge, monolithic federal governing kleptocracy. The Federal government was to provide for the common defense, and currency, primarily. The rest was supposed to be up to the States themselves. The role of the federal government has grown consistently over the past 200 years, to where now the States are little more than puppets with a tiny bit of autonomy.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
Does the National Weather Service need that computing power all the time, or could they buy it during major hurricanes from cloud services?
You've obviously been asleep if you think any major party's stance on the matter is that "government is evil."
You're absolutely right.
The Republicans' stance is that global warming is evil and that anything that might show it is happening must be defunded.
Uh, actually, that constitution you mention lists a few more things than "common defense and currency"
form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America
Considering they led with this, it's kind of embarrassing you don't know it.
The good news is that in order to keep up NOAA is planning to buy Chinese super computers....right after a Chinese team hacked them.
"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
I just love quotes like the following;
The European forecast of Hurricane Sandy in 2012 was so far ahead of U.S. models in predicting the storm's path that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration was called before Congress to explain how it happened.
According to this NOAA predicted the landfall four days ahead while the European system predicted it seven days ahead. While a longer warning is nice the real question is whether or not the three extra days are necessary. If they are not necessary then the NOAA computers are fine and we don't need expensive new computers. If it is, new computers need to be speced and purchased. Even then the speced computer may not be the fastest in the world.
It is not a question of being "First" but having the equipment to do the job. This also goes into a change in world philosophy. Instead of countries competing why don't we pool our resources and go much farther than any one country can on its own.
No, it's about ethics in games journalism. Get your nonsensical rants straight.
Do you know what being first takes? Leadership, vision, money, and RISK.
Do you know what we don't have anymore here in the States?
And the democrats believe that more government is the answer to all of the people's problems and that America is not exceptional, until just recently that is, etc. I personally don't drink the kool aid of either party.
Your alleged only runner in the race is completely false. Good grief man, read some history. Start with the "first" milestones here. The Soviets were ahead of us in many areas, but we decided to take risks that pushed us ahead. It was a gamble that paid off, but a close run. Here is an excerpt.
First animals returned safely from orbit August 1960 USSR Sputnik 5
First simultaneous flight of crewed spacecraft. Andriyan Nikolayev and Pavel Popovich August 1962 USSR Vostok 3 and Vostok 4
First woman in space. Valentina Tereshkova June 1963 USSR Vostok 6
Longest crewed solo orbital flight. Valery Bykovsky June 1963 USSR Vostok 5
Your other statements about JFK backing away is just as wrong, at least in terms of the race to the Moon. Are you confusing US involvement in Vietnam with the Space Race or something? You sure don't seem to have any concern for actual events and history.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
CNN for nerds, and stuff that spatters.
Actually it's about ethics in gaming journalism
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
Last I heard Cray was an American company. Who deserves more credit, the pusher or the users?
Namely, we built big fucking rockets, put people inside a little sardine can, and hit the moon with them. They took pictures, played golf, and went home. It could only be more quintessentially American if one of then died choking on a 2 pound hamburger along the trip.
We allowed MEXICO to take out reign on the throne of fattest country per capita.
Sadly, it appears that being #1 is no longer a priority for us.
I'll happily take second place if it avoids the waste of trillions of dollars and a tax increase on me is thereby delayed.
And Big Oil.
Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
Choosing to be first going to the moon was a strategic choice about the Cold War and survival.
I'm not sure who has LinPack bragging rights this week comes anywhere close.
We're too busy being fat stupid failures. Let everyone else in the world do stuff.
We live in a delusional bubble and sooner or later that bubble will burst. We were very good but to stay the best takes effort and money. Both of which we traded for political demigods and cheap trinket and oil from authoritarian regimes around the world to live our obese Wal-Mart fueled lives.
We want to be the best, but where will the brain and money that are needed for such endeavor come from? Certainly not from the flag lapel wearing politicians that caters to the money worshiping financial and legal sectors while neglecting the egalitarian nature of a strong domestic manufacturing base.
So, no being first in the world doesnt' matter to us anymore, as long if we think we're number one that's what counts.
Looking at the big picture the US still leads in anything that really matters. And that is not some type of rah-rah bullshit. The space station has served it's purpose and contrary to popular belief the US has had a reusable X-37 space craft up and running for over 5 years now. The kind of program that makes ASAT weapons old tech while giving the US the ability to take out any satellite they want to. The US space program has put multiple landers on Mars and has had probes traveling through the solar system for many years. And for all the morons crowing about the US debt keep in mind that China only owns about 4% of outstanding US debt in the form of bonds and securities and they cling to it because it's the safest place to stash large sums of cash because the return on investment beats the hell out of internal Chinese investments. And if things become tight the US can just repatriate the cash and assets from the welfare countries in Europe. The new energy marketplace dynamics are about to make the ME and Russia irrelevant to the US energy needs. Let China or any other country that has been freeloading on US protection start paying to protect their oil and gas supplies. Let Europe get down on their knees and give Putin a nice juicy blowjob since they have zero soft or hard power without US support which they have taken for granted and certainly not footed any of the costs for. And finally let the US take the leash off of Israel and let them finish the job they should have been allowed to do back in 1967 or 1973. It's way past time for the US to limit it's international involvement and really start serving their own needs with no apologies and let everyone else fend for themselves. After all when is the last time the world has did anything to help the US in any meaningful manner? Let's see how the world looks after the "empire" tells everyone else to go pound sand and when they need any military services they need to prepay the invoice before any services are rendered. And limit any state sponsored humanitarian concerns and relief efforts to domestic US interests since there certainly has never been any return on investment in that particular area.
The Republicans' stance is that global warming is evil and that anything that might show it is happening must be defunded.
So cherry picking one issue proves that the Republican party thinks government is evil? I just ate so I guess global starvation has just been resolved.
There was a time when the US had the tallest buildings, the longest bridges, the biggest dams, etc. What happened is the wealth in the US is now concentrated in "soft" areas like finance, retailing, entertainment, etc. Even more harmful is the concentration of wealth in a few individuals who are mainly concerned with their own amusements. Think of the Walton or Ziff children who, unlike their parents, have neither the interest nor the capability to contribute to economic growth. The record prices of art, antiques and other toys for the rich are yet more signs of the dissipation of the US economy. Hard industries like manufacturing, construction, scientific research etc. are starved for capital which is leading to the US becoming a second tier country like the UK, Japan, or Austria-Hungary.
The Europeans, that's who. So it's not surprising to find the US in second place...
One of the things that drove the race for the moon was us losing the space race with the Soviet Union. Having that big a Cold War enemy was a huge boost in one respect (mandates to educate the population and advance science) and a huge detractor in another (who-knows-how-many trillions of dollars wasted on a nuclear arms race that neither side actually needed to participate in.)
I think the times are different now:
- Education isn't seen as a guarantee of a decent job anymore, so fewer people are spending the money and effort on it.
- Decent jobs are no longer guaranteed either, so people are more concerned with day to day survival than long-term planning.
- We don't have a huge boogeyman like the USSR ready to wipe us out the second we let up the pressure...the closest thing now is China, and they're our biggest trade partners.
- Media is more fragmented. You can argue either side of this point, but the world was a lot simpler when there were only 3 TV networks, a much longer news cycle and newspapers of record that did real journalism. Now no one can make any sort of controversial move without 200 news analysts jumping all over it and putting forth their opinion as fact.
- People don't trust large institutions or governments, who are often the only entities big or powerful enough to mandate huge changes or push science forward. (Example: AT&T funding Bell Labs with phone company revenues leading to breakthrough inventions, or the US funding Apollo and other NASA programs.)
I think that some of these factors make it impossible to be "first" in key areas, simply because no one is willing to stick their neck out and invest the time, effort or resources.
Which is why the GOP is filibustering its own bills and nominees in the Senate, and is hellbent on destroying the USPS (which one would expect to be sacrosanct since it's one of few federal departments explicitly authorized by the Constitution) and doing anything possible to wipe out unions and union power. It's all about the Constitution, not breaking the government in every way possible in order to crow that government doesn't work, in one of the most hideous and destructive self-fulfilling prophecies of our time.
Now ask yourself: who would stand to benefit from the destruction of the American federal government as an effective ruling (i.e. regulatory) body?
There was a reason that Teddy Roosevelt said that national regulations on child labor and working hours were needed: Because the federal government was big enough to keep corporate predators in line and individual states weren't. It's becoming apparent with the rise of transnational corporations that world government is no longer an option to be talked about or we're going to end up right back where the US was in 1890.
Considering that you don't seem to be aware that the Preamble were goals of the Constitution, NOT powers granted by the Constitution to the Federal Government, it's kind of embarrassing that you think that that's relevant to the Federal Government....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
Congratulations, you have one percent of your population that got obscenely rich by lying, stealing and not paying their taxes vs the other 99%.
How does it feel to be part of the country with the most corrupt assholes on the planet?
Yes, the US sucks. It has always sucked. It will continue to suck long into the future, until it eventually just goes away.
/. quickly devolves into how the US does worse than everywhere else.
Every thread on
We could have a discussion about starvation in North Korea, and how people are boiling grass and bark for 'soup', and some of you geniuses would proudly proclaim that the quality of bark from US trees has less nutritional value. And garner mod points for it.
This 'used' to be a place for semi-rational discussion. Oh well.
Dice is but one of the reasons.
There are other prestige constructions - the world's tallest buildings, for instance. And lots of big buildings with fancy architecture.
The rest of the world is just jealous, because we're the best country with the most successful and richest people around. The rest, especially grotty Europe, are mega jealous.
Would that be the EU with a GDP bigger than the USA?
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
No.
What we need to do is our best. Unless it involves some winner-take-all competition (like the Cold War was. Maybe.) we need to stop looking over our shoulder. Or lamentng the fact that we've been passed. Who cares if Europe is better at hurricane forecasting? Can they use that against us? I doubt it. We need to be as good at that as makes sense economically. We can't save every mobile home, damn the cost.
Have gnu, will travel.
Yeah, maybe in the context of things that are life and death and is time sensitive but, let's look at history a bit.
Space race: the russians were the first into outer space, but neil armstrong was remembered.
Discovering America: vikings vs Christoper Columbus
Printing Press: Gutenberg is remembered while the chinese have had it for ages.
Car: Ford is remember when Karl Benz is common accepted as the inventor
Thomas Edison: Nikola Tesla
There are few things that America was the first in but that's never stopped it from inflating it's own ego before. And, I'm sure, into the unforseeable future, it will still be proud of it's "firsts" even if they're not really firsts or not even something that one should be proud of.
Yeah? When was that?
With scientists (and the lobbyists behind them) asking for taxpayers' money, it is only proper to be skeptical. Not distrustful, no, but skeptical nonetheless.
It is the right thing to do — not much different from you being skeptical, when the car-company or a cell-phone maker try to sell you some super-duper advance, that you probably don't need...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
The space station has served it's purpose
The International Space Station? That wasn't a USA effort. Clue is in the name.
Let Europe get down on their knees and give Putin a nice juicy blowjob since they have zero soft or hard power without US support which they have taken for granted and certainly not footed any of the costs for.
EU military spending is the second highest in the world spending more than China and Russia combined.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
The republican party is in the middle of one of the most unprecedented popular vote losing streaks in history. I don't think they care.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The preamble outlines the purposes for which the constitution was established.
Seems to me that, in recent history, the government has been failing to meet those purposes.
Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
The Federal government was to provide for the common defense, and currency, primarily.
And arbitrating disputes between the States, and regulating interstate commerce, which sadly has become a catchall to let them do practically anything they want.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
Actually it's about equality.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... http://www.now.org/nnt/03-97/f... http://www.firstpost.com/india... http://www.hindustantimes.com/... http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/... http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/... http://www.weeklystandard.com/... http://douchebagdork.tumblr.co... http://www.ageofconsent.com/co... http://studentactivism.net/201... http://i.imgur.com/Vac0UOk.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aob5k.jpg http://www.law.fsu.edu/journal... http://www.genderratic.net/?ta... http://www.aifs.gov.au/acssa/d... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... http://www.theguardian.com/com... http://www.saveservices.org/pd... http://www.law.fsu.edu/journal... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... http://jezebel.com/294383/have... http://anescapedconviction.tum... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?... http://news.nationalpost.com/2... https://imgur.com/zoR6eQ0 https://twitter.com/CodeusaSof... https://twitter.com/FabioFacch... https://twitter.com/DanielleGi... https://twitter.com/ForemanEri... http://theflounce.com/harassme...
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
It matters a lot when they place first or can be the best at something, but if they can't win then they're quick to slag it off, belittle it, and let everyone know how unimportant it is. A very juvenile attitude.
Too often these things just look like dick measuring contests. A childish waste of time. I don't really care if the chinese have the fastest machine so long as our systems are able to keep up with our needs.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
So some goals were set out for what the organization defined by the Constitution would hopefully accomplish and you think the powers enumerated within it were not sufficient to meet those goals? How can you justify such a position?
That's where US R&D dollars have gone. Camelot!
if we want to stay ahead, it's time to build something revolutionary, not just something that's 10% faster than whatever someone else has.
Nullius in verba
i kan reed (749298) said:
Uh, actually, that constitution you mention lists a few more things than "common defense and currency"
Trying to disprove your user name?
The Federal government was to provide for the common defense, and currency, primarily.
You're still first for billions of dollars spent on warfare.
You're still first in number of people incarcerated per capita.
You still lead in the number of gun-related murders per capita.
And you still lead the world in thousands of dollars per capita spent on healthcare.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
“We lead the world in only 3 categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real, and defense spending, where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
(Skip to 3:20 for the part I'm talking about.)
Don Head
UNIX/Linux Administrator
Would that be the EU with nearly twice the unemployment rate as the US?
We can do whatever the fuck we want given the proper motivation, and we often do! The US has a good track record of pulling miracles out of our collective asses when the shit hits the fan.
The trouble is we currently don't fucking care about anything. We're too busy shredding every last asset we have and giving it to the financial services industry, where it ends up in some rich person's bank account.
Crumbling infrastructure. Gaping chasms of wealth inequality. Urban blight. Failing institutions. Aging baby boomers selling out their children's children so they can get their oxy prescriptions filled.
All powered by disinformation and apathy sold as news. People scared shitless of brown people half a world away when the real threat is from the crooks at home destroying their children's future and stealing their retirement funds.
Does it calculate the Fibbonaci sequence faster?
If not, then who the hell cares who has the most hardware to throw at a "throw hardware at it problem"?
Most of the interesting problems are no longer "embarrassingly parallel". All the rest of them, if we care about getting them solved faster, we'll throw hardware at them to the degree we care about getting the result faster.
If you put in some amount of hardware, and then putting in 10x that much hardware doesn't solve the problem faster, then you computer is not "more super".
That Wall Street is kept happy, and that the oil barons aren't obstructed from future explo(r|it)ation.
EVERYTHING else, is smoke & mirrors, bread & circuses.
Nope!
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
Religion in America is taking hold again. Especially the fundy 'Christians'.
Genetic Research... denied, you're playing 'God'.
Presidential and Political Candidates... must utter the words... 'God', 'Church', and even 'Jesus' to get elected.
Scientific Method... you get called an anti-christ, witnessed before, and pressured to convert.
Pragmatic Rational Solutions to Public Issues... nope, sorry, the answer lies in Bible Study and Jesus, btw, we're studying Friday night, you should come.
Lazy Get Nothing Accomplished.... of course, when faith church saviour will bring you everything you need.
May 'God' please bring us at least some motherphuckin agnostics all up in this sorry ass country.
IBM sold some server business to Lenovo. IBM's supercomputer business is alive and well in a proprietary architecture (same with Cray's top-end machines):
http://www.cnet.com/news/ibm-nvidia-land-325-million-supercomputer-deal/
By the fact of an amendment process being included?
Not to mention the elastic clause.
Looking at the big picture - 50 years ago no American had to say "Looking at the big picture." I think we are seeing many little signs that the US is losing its importance - even though at the moment it is still the dominant superpower. As to why - who knows. But the completely uncritical way that most citizens of that country can't see any problems is part of the problem. I'm not saying the USA are bad guys, but come on - *look* at what you wrote: "It's way past time for the US to limit it's international involvement and really start serving their own needs with no apologies and let everyone else fend for themselves." If you really feel that the USA isn't serving their own needs on the international arena, you need to read history more.
Being first didn't seem to count much for Native Americans.
50 years ago there were two super powers. Today there is one. Pull your head out of your ass and then tell us more about how the US is less important now that it is the ONLY superpower
The EU isn't a country retard
So what's the answer? increase those taxes that these rich people don't have to pay so that the 99% feels it more?
No, it's the rebirth of the USSR
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
But the GOP has become obsessed with the idea that government is evil. They will not fund anything except military and espionage. That includes weather forecasting.
Apparently especially weather forecasting. They are concerned that we may learn something about climate while investigating the weather, and apparently they are ideologically opposed to learning about the climate. - http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad...
Yeah, and that's absolutely and undeniably bullshit and frankly you should feel ashamed to be pressing the point when the primary purposes of the government are exactly what the preamble establishes.
No
Sincerely,
An Australian
Joe Biden is a square shooter. Joe Biden for 2016.
We're #2 in obesity too. The Mexicans have beaten us. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...
So the politicians first denied funding, then bitched because the old computers are slow. What a sorry situation. My hope is that the directors and scientists brought in giant sized mirrors, told the politicians to get out their fingers ready to point blame, then put up the mirrors and when the politicians have their fingers pointing, they see themselves. "There! That's the over-paid blowhard who denied funding! There's the jerk who wanted more with less, and instead got less." Politicians aren't the brightest lights in the kitchen. You have to treat them like a dog and rub their noses in it. "Who pooped on the carpet? (whine, whine, whine). ...nose to poopy floor... "This shouldn't be here!" Politicians *might* get being treated like a dog. When their corporate sponsors issue demands, they are treated like the lap dogs they are.
So.. what really matters is the ability to destroy human archievements and the ability to boast you have the mightiest military ever? I'd like to be able to say what really matters is the welfare of all people, advancement of the human race. Art, literature, tasty food, warmth and safety. But no. it's the ability to blow shit up.
Do you really think the list of sexism against women would be shorter? Because if not, you are attacking the least-dangerous gender discrimination.
I'm against any sexism, regardless of the gender being disparaged. It's obvious that men experience far less sexism than women, so it makes sense to try to fix the institutionalised sexism against women first, then we can iron out the few wrinkles experienced by men. Men still earn far more than women in the workplace, get better jobs, and have far better prospects. They also run most of the world.
Don't you see you are being just as sexist as those you pretend to rail against? Of course you don't, as you're not being rational, just insecure and scared of the menace of "women". Shame.
Bond: Are these pictures live?
M: Unlike the American government, we prefer not to get our bad news from CNN.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
507,416,607 is closer to 500,000,000 not 600,000,000 ;)
Most of the interesting problems are no longer "embarrassingly parallel". All the rest of them, if we care about getting them solved faster, we'll throw hardware at them to the degree we care about getting the result faster.
You yeard it here first! Predicting the weather is no longer interesting.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
The things is, frankly sometimes I feel that the USA redefined the space race, until they were not anymore second, but first. The reality is that the space race can be said to either have been won by german (V2 reached ~90 km altitude t maximum long range, and could go 200+ km vertically if wanted) or by Russian (sputnik). The rest is fluff and redefinition of the "space race" frankly. That said the USA were the first to land on the moon. But second to launch stuff in space, second to a woman in space, second to drone or landing (unhabited) on the moon etc...
I'm bemused by his answer to be honest. I was making a light hearted comment about someone's attempt to justify a party position ("Against big gubmint") by launching into a dubious official-justification "Trying to protect the constitution" rant.
So I drew a parallel with #ethics!!?!1!, and got a massive MRA rant in response, as if the intent was to make the thread symmetric. Apparent Reason 1 -> Dubious Official Position 1 -> Dubious Official Position 2 -> (Whitewashed) Apparent Reason 2.
Huh.
BTW Shadow, FWIW, the tactics of your fellow MRAs/channer trolls/opportunists/dupes lead me to actually sit down and watch Anita Sarkeesian's video series the other week. Well, I had to. And yes, it will impact some of my work in future, she makes some excellent points. Me, myself, probably won't make a difference to you, but I know plenty of others who have done the same. And by coming out into the open, you've also made it easier for us to see you, for me to, for example, warn my daughter (when she's old enough, I'm not going to scare the shit out of her right now) about the extremists in your group who write articles like "How to get away with rape" and "How to break a woman".
So thank you - to you and the people you defend and associate with - for making it easier to arm my daughter, and for ensuring I, and legions of other men who seriously had thought sexism against women was nothing like as serious as it is, open our eyes and start fighting for equality.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
He's right and you're wrong. Those two issues are not the primary purposes of the Federal Government, and even if you had been technically right (you're not, ICC is of considerable more historic purpose), you would have been handwaving as claiming two issues are "primary" does not eliminate the other unsaid issues.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
To be fair, much of that spending consists of buying lots of very expensive but not so great equipment from a transatlantic ally as a form of "protection money".
While I don't disagree with you about the need for equality, the quote
Men still earn far more than women in the workplace
is a canard.
For the same roles with the same experiences any differences between male and female employees looks like statistical noise. The variation only appears if you consider all male and all females regardless of age, experience, role or any other consideration.
It appears that the major barrier to equal earnings is still that females tend to take extended maternity leave and career breaks to raise children which leaves them with less experience at a similar age to their male counterparts. So later in her career the female employee will earn less, but then so will the male who started the career later in life.
Rational thought is the only true freedom
In being the Rotten Republic full of Rotten Republicans.
Rot on Americaturds. Rot on.
The US ranks 22nd in personal freedom 10th in overall prosperityand Nobel prizes per capita. 101st in peace index 34th by life expectency I could go on but hey, at least the US is still #1 in military spending!
Looking at the big picture - 50 years ago no American had to say "Looking at the big picture." I think we are seeing many little signs that the US is losing its importance - even though at the moment it is still the dominant superpower.
As to why - who knows. But the completely uncritical way that most citizens of that country can't see any problems is part of the problem. I'm not saying the USA are bad guys, but come on - *look* at what you wrote: "It's way past time for the US to limit it's international involvement and really start serving their own needs with no apologies and let everyone else fend for themselves."
If you really feel that the USA isn't serving their own needs on the international arena, you need to read history more.
The USA is still important because we protect rich people's money and their lives. The USA is a very nice place to be rich except that servants cost so much money and slavery is outlawed, but those are the kinds of things you do to make poor people (aka, those who aren't rich) compliant. Marx had it wrong, sports if the opiate of the people, not religion. So we give poor people their sports, alcohol and fast food and they don't harass rich people. In fact, they will defend rich people because we've convinced everyone that the American dream might make they rich someday (and how would you like the government taking all your money!).
Yeah, and that's absolutely and undeniably bullshit and frankly you should feel ashamed to be pressing the point when the primary purposes of the government are exactly what the preamble establishes.
The Preamble describes the primary purposes of the Constitution.
The Constitution then assigns and limits powers to the federal government. The purpose of the federal government is not the same as the purpose of the Constitution, because the document and the system it defines are different things.
Have you ever confused a man page with the tool it described?
It's hard to feel shamed by a person who casually makes unjustified substitutions.
Most of the interesting problems are no longer "embarrassingly parallel". All the rest of them, if we care about getting them solved faster, we'll throw hardware at them to the degree we care about getting the result faster.
You yeard it here first! Predicting the weather is no longer interesting.
Predicting the weather is interesting, it's just substantially less interesting than it used to be back when all we had was The Farmer's Almanac. The incremental value in funding a much larger supercomputer *now*, rather than having you slowly expand an existing one over time, and as budget allows, is fairly negligible.
Can you point to a paper where a new, much faster system (one that requires putting the U.S. back in the "#1 super computer" position) is needed?
How about you find out who the top 5 systems are, and run that model on their systems instead, to see whether it's going to be sufficiently better than the current system to merit investing in the equipment in a U.S. facility, because it will have that much value to have a U.S. facility dedicated to the task?
Oh right, I forgot about the literally infinite capability of anyone on the right wing to dismiss primary evidence on the grounds that it disagrees with their beliefs.
Sorry. Don't let me interrupt your fantasy, you can engage in those extraordinary mental contortions if you want. It's not like I'm going to stop you.
Primary ... evidence? You can't even tell the difference between the source code and the compiled object, and you want to talk about evidence and fantasy?
"federal government" != "Constitution"
That you can't tell the difference demonstrates all that one needs to know about your "argument". The name of the object pointer is not the name of the object. The purpose of the government definition document is not the purpose of the government implementation.
No, see you think you're being clever here.
You're really not.
I could cite the powers granted to congress that defy your stupid beliefs, but you'd say there were secondary, I could cite the history leading to the constitutional convention, but you'd deny their validity, I could point to the arguments made in the federalist papers, but you'd dismiss them as just Halilton's opinions.
You're wrong. You're dead wrong. You're wrong and the people you're treating as gods of government undermined the stupid premise you started with in the executive summary in the document you treat like scripture.
And that you put argument in scare quotes just betrays your unwillingness to examine it as an argument, not some clever takedown of my debate skills, or whatever "totally subtle" jab you thought you were delivering.
Your reality denial will let you definitely have the last word in this argument, because you've made it pretty clear ignoring relatively basic facts is part of your MO.
And that you put argument in scare quotes just betrays your unwillingness to examine it as an argument, not some clever takedown of my debate skills, or whatever "totally subtle" jab you thought you were delivering.
I'll bite. Please elaborate the argument contained in your post that I was responding to.
Oh right, I forgot about the literally infinite capability of anyone on the right wing to dismiss primary evidence on the grounds that it disagrees with their beliefs. Sorry. Don't let me interrupt your fantasy, you can engage in those extraordinary mental contortions if you want. It's not like I'm going to stop you.
Here's what I see:
1. Accusation of being right wing. (how is this relevant to the topic?)
2. Accusation of dismissing primary evidence on the basis of beliefs.
3. Accusation of having a fantasy maintained with extraordinary mental contortions.
Are one of those points supposed to be an argument? Accusations are not arguments. So you can't tell the difference between a definition and an implementation, and you don't know what an argument is.
To also touch on the substance of the discussion:
I could cite the powers granted to congress that defy your stupid beliefs, but you'd say there were secondary ...
Maybe. Considering your reading ability, I wouldn't put much faith in your ability to read my mind. Asserting your ability to provide an argument is not actually an argument.
But clearly the most important thing is to delegitimize and shame those who disagree with you. They don't know anything, after all.
I think this myth of American superiority can be put to a stop now. In France, and in most of Europe, we look at Americans not as the innovators and entrepreneurs like the legend. We also know the image of the hamburger eating gun shooter is a cartoon. But your educational system and priorities are not correct. We had great hopes when Obama was elected. My best friend's wife at the time said, "Finally there is hope for the Americans." But not so much now. Then again, I had an affair with my friend's wife, so I am not speaking from a position of moral superiority...
its a sad result of both the citizens not demanding more of their govt and their elected officials failing epicly more than anything.
but the fiscal reality we will cone to understand in the near future is we dont have endless money as in the past -JFK didnt have a 17 TRILLION dollar national debt hanging around his neck and a money sink(s) of oversea military deployments.
besides the NSa probably has been using such a computer to analyze Slashdot postings (word of it will come out when the Russian debriefings of Snowden leak out...)
if we follow your line of thought we wont just be not #1 we will be last or next to last in the top tier or two.
yes being top in major tech or capability will be tougher given the current global climate
looking back we probably started ceding the tech lead when we stop funding pure research in any real quantity and now you publishing in university setting what would have been a single paper as a whole series of cluster of papers by subdividing it as much as possible. Im sure there were many other points of the tide turning to be used as the start of downfall.
Anyone rem how we started a Super Collider in Texas and then paid to fill in the underground facility.
We will be truly DONE when the elite student of the world stop coming to America to do their grad work-it will mean our universities no longer teach an education of value globally and that our university facilities have decayed to point they arent worth using.
If you're against any sexism regardless of the target why is it you just spent an entire post trying desperately to derail from discussing the actions of a political/social movement with "you horrible woman-hater you!", emotionally charged assertions, personal attacks, and disproven canards? A group of people literally fighting to keep rape legal and throw half of all domestic violence victims under the bus is hardly the "least-dangerous gender discrimination", nor does having a problem with the political/social movement behind that have anything to do with being "insecure and scared of the menace of women". Likewise the fact half of all domestic violence victims are more likely to be arrested than their abuser is hardly a "small wrinkle".
As for the rest of your canards the wage gap myth has been debunked at least a dozen times and men are a huge majority of the homeless and virtually all workplace deaths, prisoners, and suicides. They're also over 10x as likely to go to jail for the same crime as a woman is (far larger than the difference between whites and blacks) and get far more severe sentencing than women. Meanwhile women are nearly 2/3rds of college graduates and utterly dominating the entire education system. And don't even try to bring up that supposed "STEM gap" which is actually only in one or two majors, one of which is a mere 10% of all degrees conferred.
As for "men" running the world... "men" don't run the world. "Men" are not some fungible borg-like monolith. Your problem is with social and economic class, not with gender.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Posting a bunch of links of people doing things like fighting to keep raping men from being outlawed under the banner of "feminism" is a "massive MRA rant"? MRA's are now interchangeable with "channer trolls/opportunists/dupes"? Looks more like you've just decided to add "MRA" to a list of interchangeable cliches that you slap on anyone you disagree with to justify covering your eyes and rejecting whatever contradicts your worldview.
You posted "actually it's about ethics" with the intention of mocking that insistence. I posted "actually it's about equality" with a whole bunch of evidence of "feminists" doing things that are patently anti-equality (yknow, like trying to keep rape legal or harming domestic violence victims).
BTW Shadow, FWIW, the tactics of your fellow MRAs/channer trolls/opportunists/dupes lead me to actually sit down and watch Anita Sarkeesian's video series the other week. Well, I had to. And yes, it will impact some of my work in future, she makes some excellent points. Me, myself, probably won't make a difference to you, but I know plenty of others who have done the same. And by coming out into the open, you've also made it easier for us to see you, for me to, for example, warn my daughter (when she's old enough, I'm not going to scare the shit out of her right now) about the extremists in your group who write articles like "How to get away with rape" and "How to break a woman".
So thank you - to you and the people you defend and associate with - for making it easier to arm my daughter, and for ensuring I, and legions of other men who seriously had thought sexism against women was nothing like as serious as it is, open our eyes and start fighting for equality.
Seriously? "how to get away with rape"? You're just going to make shit up and try to pin it on me by associating me with some ridiculously hyperbolic villain cliche? What's next, moustache twirling and tying people to the train tracks?
You want to talk about "getting away with rape"? I just gave you a link to people literally fighting to stop rape from being outlawed. I just gave you a link to research publications discussing real harm done to real domestic violence victims, and real articles mocking domestic violence and victims. I gave you links to live videos of people committing felonies. If it's people talking about getting away with rape and breaking someone with abuse you want to talk about how about we talk about the mainstream people in your group that I've already supplied actual proof of.
Also you realise that you're rushing to defend as "[making] some excellent points" a whorephobic thief and plagiarist that's been caught repeatedly making patently untrue claims and generally passing off anti-feminist sexshaming nonsense as "feminist critique", right? You're talking about someone that shit all over Bayonetta, which is widely considered to be one of the single most positive feminist icons in gaming, and will plug a book she's got ties to before the bodies of dead kids are even cold?
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
The international space station would have never got off the ground without the US. And the EU is comprised of independent states that rarely agree on anything of importance let alone anything that has to do with military or basic state security decisions. And it doesn't matter how much money you spend on the military you still need the balls and leadership to actually use whatever arms you are making or buying. Outside of England there is not a single European country the US should feel obligated to assist in the event of war. That basically goes for just about every other country in the world except for Canada and possibly Mexico since they actually border the US and Canada actually takes turns with the US when manning the NORAD facilities. And England has shown the willingness to support the US most of the time ever since the end of WW2 so they can still be considered capable and worthy allies. I cannot think of any other state that even comes close to being a US allie. And moral or political support is meaningless when everyone knows that is all they are offering the US. The international communities have made their disdain for the US very clear so lets grant their wishes and let them take care of things. I am sure they will enjoy and prosper under a Russian and Chinese hegemony. They will soon discovery their vaunted social entitlement states can no longer meet it's domestic obligations and provide a credible defense force at the same time. The human race is no where near abandoning warfare no matter how many people fantasize about it. Until, if ever, that changes any state wanting to preserve it's sovereignty will need military capabilities. Conflict, competition, and territorial ambitions have existed since there were enough cavemen to form up sides and beat each other over the head with clubs and knives to secure better caves, hunting grounds, and women. Almost every human on the planet is descended from the people who fought across Europe, Russia, Persia, China, Japan, India, England, North and South America, the middle east, Africa, and damn near every other place in the world since the dawn of human civilization. That behavior is ingrained in our DNA and all the passionate political and social movements in the world is not going to nullify the basic drive for survival built into the human race when push comes to shove.
And to prove that you're quoting Soviet propaganda from a quarter of a century ago? You're way out of date.
Not to mention, the LK wasn't even tested until 1971... hardly "ready to go" in 1968. On top of that, the Soyuz 7LK1 didn't have a successful test (I.E. one the crew would have survived) until 1969.
I'm bemused by his answer to be honest. I was making a light hearted comment about someone's attempt to justify a party position ("Against big gubmint") by launching into a dubious official-justification "Trying to protect the constitution" rant.
If you are in fact referring to me, I was only replying to the anti-GOP trolling above my post. But I love how a member of the supposed party of anti-racism and equality makes stereotypical comments like the one above, and then claims to be above it all. When's the last time you mocked someone as speaking ebonics?
FWIW, yes, the founding fathers WERE against big government, that's why we were set up as individual states, and the constitution is written as it is. To argue against that obvious reality is to to deny reason. I'm not quite as anti-regulation as the GOP typically seems to be, but the country was supposed to be a collection of federated states that exercised a fair level of autonomy, not subservience to DC. That was my point.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
No, you're embarrassing yourself. Those are the primary goals of the UNITED STATES as a whole, not the limited role of the federal government in DC itself.
Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
The US isn't losing it's importance or power. It's just taken 70+ years for all the countries devastated in WW2 to recover from the deep wounds the US was fortunate enough to avoid to it's domestic infrastructure. The world will work better with a little more balance but to achieve that balance the US needs to stop carrying the lions share of the global security responsibilities. The US funding of the UN and NATO is excessive and needs to be scaled back to a more equitable arrangement if not abandoned altogether since neither of those organizations provide any real benefits today. The US has had to put up with a lot of criticism from countries that have benefited from relations with the US but they have not used any of those benefits to help anyone but themselves. Europe has been able to free load on US military security agreements which has allowed them to divert resources to benefit only themselves. Those constantly complaining about US military bases around the world have misinterpreted the reason those bases exist in the first place. They are a another relic of the aftermath of WW2. None of those US military bases are capable of fending off serious attacks against the countries willingly hosting them. The bases primary mission has always been to serve as a trip wire to guarantee Americans will die thus forcing the US to commit enough resources to assist the country being attacked. The soldiers manning those bases serve as human sacrifices to ensure the US will end up helping defend countries that frankly are not worth even the death of 1 US soldier. The US has no true or even capable allies who would ever consider putting their soldiers in harms way to help protect the US in the same way. It's hard enough just to get countries to fulfill their obligations to protect US Embassies. So the US needs to remove those bases and protections they provide and give the world a desperately needed wake up call on the dangers that still exist in the world today so they can continue working on improving their countries without the safety blanket they have taken for granted for so many years. The US is the only country on the planet with the ability to deploy sizable military resources any where in the world if needed and it doesn't need bases on foreign soil to do so if it's only goal is the protection of narrowly defined US interests. The US has closed it's bases every time they have been asked to do so by the host country without exception. (Iraq, Ecuador, and the Philippines are some recent examples) If the world does not want US military bases all they have to do is say so. The sooner they do so the sooner they can get on with strengthening their sovereignty in the real world.
That's the thing. The US has NEVER been an utopia that somehow reached it's zenith only to start declining. The country was founded by white wealthy land owners taking advantage of the conflicts between England, France, and Spain that were ongoing before, during, and after the US revolutionary war. The US secured it's territory by using naked force against anyone who got in the way. That included the native Americans, Mexicans, France, and of course England. There has not been one single year since it's founding when it was not engaged in some sort of military action in defense of it's interests somewhere in the world. The late 1800's and early 1900's were dominated by a select few with monopolies that dwarf anything seen in recent times and worker rights were non-existent. The 20's saw the great depression. The 40's were dominated by WW2. The 50's saw the Korean war, nuclear war paranoia, and the cold war. The 60's were dominated by racial upheaval and the Vietnam War. The 70's were consumed with a stagnant economy, declining manufacturing, Iranian hostage crisis, and the OPEC boycott. The 80's ushered in Junk Bonds, unrestrained and largely unregulated Wall Street mechanization's, dire warnings of the Japanese dominance surpassing the US, and the Iranian-contra affair. These are just some of the problems the US has faced in it's history. There has never been some golden age when the US was problem free so talks of decline really have no basis in reality.
Why the rage? You could do a little reading and find out for yourself.
Here are some ideas from me - some stats, some anecdotes.
1. Scientific output in the US is stagnant compared with China. For example, between 2010 and 2013 the US published approx, 560k articles each year. China rose from 335k to 426k. I often hear Americans say "Quality, not quantity." But again, no one had to say that 10 years ago... (see ref1)
2. The US standard of living has fallen below that of many other countries (see ref2). Again, many Americans deny this, or simply don't believe it. This is part of the problem. For example, this post (ref3) was rated 5:Insightful: "Government has a very limited range of things that they do as well or better than the public at large (war/defense, money, basic law enforcement, etc) - governmental action beyond that range invariably becomes incompetent, expensive, dangerous, or worse." Given that the poster is comparing Sweden with the US, this is laughable.
3. You can't put a person in space anymore.
4. You have people living on the street who aren't drug affected or mentally unstable. You know, like young, sane healthy families living out of their car. If you can't or won't fix that, you shouldn't have much confidence for larger problems.
5. Among the many Americans I've met (and they were all friendly decent people), there was a strong feeling that their country was the envy of the world. This is simply not the case. Here are two anecdotes that may have wider applicability. If you were to offer an academic the choice between a US or EU passport, what do you think they would choose? Among the people I know, about 3/4 would go with the EU passport. But then I mainly know academics. Which brings me to another point. Within academia, the US is still considered the default centre of the world - but only just. But that has definitely changed in the last 20 years. 20 years ago, the status location for an international conference was the states. That is no longer the case. Many universities now prefer to hold conferences in the EU, and I've spoken to many scientists who now skip some minor conferences when they are held in the US, simply because they are in the US. This would, you assume, be bad for their careers, but two of them are leaders in their field. I'd say this is bad for the states.
(some refs) ref1: http://www.scimagojr.com/count...
ref2: http://www.oecdbetterlifeindex...
ref3: http://games.slashdot.org/comm...