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Gilbert, AZ Censors Biology Books the Old-Fashioned Way
nbauman writes The Gilbert, AZ school board has voted to tear out a page from Campbell's Biology (a standard highly-recommended textbook that many doctors and scientists fondly remember), because it discusses contraception without also discussing adoption. Julie Smith, a member of the Gilbert Public Schools governing board, said that she was a Catholic and "we do not contracept." Smith convinced the board that Campbell's violates Arizona law to teach "preference, encouragement and support to childbirth and adoption" over abortion. The Arizona Education Department decided that the pages didn't violate Arizona law, but nevermind. Rachel Maddow generously risked hassles for copyright violation and posted the missing pages as a service to Arizona honors biology students.
It appears the school board didn't care about what was on the other side of the same page? Most textbooks I have seen are printed on both sides, so they just threw out two pages of of the book. I have used Campbell in the past (though not the current edition) and I suspect by the time the book reached the second side of that page they were no longer talking about contraception or abortion.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
contraception doing in a Biology textbook? Shouldn't that be taught in Health class?
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
How Long before religion puts us back into the dark ages? No scientific book should be censored, simply added to as our understanding evolves, they may not agree to teach the subject without the addtion of adoption, but that is not a biological process as contraception is....
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
Her agenda is to make everyone Catholic.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
This will all but guarantee that every student in the school system will read the page the school board is removing. Everyone knows that the quickest way to encourage a teen to seek out and read something is to remove it or ban it and tell them its not permitted.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
why we let religious loonies dictate what can and what can't be taught. Separation of church and state my ass!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
om the original article:
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
“I’m American; we do not censor education,” vomitology said. “It is a grave sin.” By removing those pages in the curriculum, he added, “you have violated children's educational rights.”
FTFY
~Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
The science of contraception is a liberal world view?
Well, that explains a great deal...
albeit not in all most efficient ways so bitch was factually incorrect and was just preaching something she did not understand. That is something that many people do also (OMG) not catholics.....
when it fits a liberal world view.
That may be true, but things ultimately work because people of all world views have a platform to ensure 'the truth' they think is suppressed is heard. slashdot may be only good for the 'liberal' world view, but there's no shortage of 'conservative' oriented sites.
Of course, 'liberal' and 'conservative' aren't consistently applicable terms. People demanding the right to do whatever they want with guns would be 'conservative', people demanding the right to do whatever they want with drugs would be labeled 'liberal', but oh well.
Evil is comparatively rare, ignorance is epidemic. - Jon Stewart
Meanwhile, the Cathloic school I attended was more than happy to explain all forms of contraception, and making mention that there's a risk that it won't always work. The Catholic school also noted a form of contraception based around when the female partner has the period, a form of contraception fully sanctioned by the Catholic church.
Well there isn't much actual discussion of the science behind it - note how it appears before fertilisation has been discussed. On the other hand, it does mention the "rhythm method", which is both Catholic-friendly and a means of birth control. but adoption certainly isn't a means of birth control and wouldn't make sense.
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
Accepting gays is equivalent to accepting that Catholics do not use contraception. Trying to discourage or prevent others from using or even learning about contraception is the equivalent of trying to force people to be gay.
But if it was about questioning global warming info being removed there would be crickets.
Well yeah, because the only place such discussion would likely be would be in a science book, and what's in a science book should be supported by evidence. The kind of "questioning global warming" that people like you mean is not supported by evidence, it's distorting evidence, and does not belong in a science book.
As Colbert put best, "reality has a well-known liberal bias". It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology. In this case these fucknuts are taking their religious beliefs, based on nothing, and prioritizing them over actual science. That's not political in any way, that's just fucking idiots. Unfortunately for those who are politically conservative but aren't insane the "conservative" party has spent 20 years courting the religious morons in every possible way and happily set themselves up for this kind of shit.
I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
Please cite an example of "removing" any science that disputes AGW. In fact, they tend to be pointed out, along with their serious flaws:
https://agwobserver.wordpress....
In the war between our tribe and our enemy there can be no neutral ground. Any claim that isn't part of our tribe's identity and thus a pure, sweet truth, must be part of our enemy's and thus a vile, contemptuous lie. There can be no compromise with such Pure Evil. There can be no giving up any part of our cause, no show of weakness by ever admitting we were wrong. No matter what the cost to actual human beings, we will get our way.
But hey, at least people can change their ideological tribe, so it's a step up from ethnic ones!
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
If worshiping Iron Age gods is the issue then which more modern deities should should we praise?
Global Warming backed by data.
Opposition to contraception backed by religious beliefs - i.e. NO data but backed by superstitious belief in God.
Religious beliefs do not deserve respect.
“I’m Catholic; we do not contracept,” Ms. Smith said. “It is a grave sin.” By including those pages in the curriculum, she added, “you have violated my religious rights.”
Assuming that contraception is a sin, is reading about how it works a sin?
Killing is a sin. Reading about killing is a sin?
What is a sin and what is not is not up to Ms. Smith to decide for others, just for herself. The page didn't put her on contraception, so her rights don't appear to have been violated.
Religion is a hobby; something you do in your spare time. Your hobby shouldn't interfere with other people's lives.
Bert
Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate.
The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics.
People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow countrypeople from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christiban just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. Noone can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose.
Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a megapower... if that became in it's total a state dominated by relgious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
The singularity? While a religion with unrealistic ideas it's still mostly based on science.
The international perception of the US changed a lot in the past decade or two. When I was young, in the 80s, the US was the place to be. It was the dream land. Freedom, peace and the promise that hard work will make you a rich man.
Today the US are regarded not unlike the USSR was while it still existed, with suspicion and caution. Don't get them pissed off, you know what they can do, and what they have done... Plus, and that hurts me personally quite a bit since I do know a lot of people in the US and found a few very good friends there, the whole religious bit paints the people as somewhat dim witted, naive, if not gullible or even outright dumb. The general sentiment is that in the USSR, the people at least knew their government was bullshitting them, but in the US, they succeeded. The people actually believe that they're living in paradise while in reality they are trapped in a hellhole.
But nobody really would say that openly. Sure, we joke about the US behind its back and make fun of it (mostly the government, less so the people), but nobody would dare say it to their face. In general, the US are regarded as the international politics version of the dim witted schoolyard bully. Nobody would dare speak up against him since we all know he can beat us up good, and if we suck up to him we might even get some spoils when he rips off someone's lunch money, but when he ain't around we're much more happy and we make jokes about how dumb he really is.
It's sad, actually. Mostly because I do know a lot of very good, very intelligent people in the US. What's sadder is that most of them are desperately trying to find employment in Europe with the goal to leave the whole religious cesspool behind them...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I can't speak for you, but knowing how hormones work in a young body (being a former young body myself), I sure as hell would want my daughter to know EVERYTHING THERE EFFING IS about contraception. Preferably BEFORE she can get pregnant in the first place.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"The essence of Christianity is told us in the Garden of Eden history. The fruit that was forbidden was on the tree of knowledge. The subtext is, All the suffering you have is because you wanted to find out what was going on. You could be in the Garden of Eden if you had just keep your fucking mouth shut and hadn't asked any questions."
-- Frank Zappa
Have gnu, will travel.
I don't like the censorship, but would it be fair to discuss if the material is more than tangentially relevant in a biology textbook?
I admit, I haven't taken a bio course in about 25 years. I could conceive of this in a sex ed class (not that that would happen in arizona), a reproductive biology class.... a medical class, a human biology class.
Really? You don't understand how or why explanations of a biological process belongs in a college level text? REALLY?
Seriously, ALL OF YOU, keep your politics out of science. Even if Republicans bring it in, keep the politics out.
I don't understand where A SCIENTIFIC TOPIC discussing SCIENTIFIC FACT is politics.
human contraception efficacy? It's barely relevant.
Sure, human biology might be barely relevant to you, but in a discussion in an educated class (again, COLLEGE LEVEL TEXT, so I'm assuming some degree of actual education), it's extremely relevant. That'd be like someone taking a college level algebra course and never talking about permutations. It's only sensible to expect that to be discussed.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
OK, so show me one schoolboard that ripped pages out of a book because it didn't conform to a liberal agenda, whatever that is.
in preference to childbirth or adoption. A significant percentage of students will get pregnant, even if taught properly about contraception, because that's what teenagers do. Giving birth means that both teenagers and their children will miss out on a big part of what life has to offer. Early abortion is medically safer than childbirth and not ethically questionable. Any good biology textbook would make it obvious that a fetus in early stages of development is further from a thinking, self aware human being than a chicken or a dog.
Conservatives have no trouble taking a stand. They win because progressives and everyone in the middle is too nice or cowardly to do the same thing. Textbook authors should refuse to compromise on science and publishers should decline to publish drivel or allow adulterated works.
And this (extremely insightful) explanation is why so many United Statsians are so terrified of our own country. We are seemingly just a few votes away from a tyranny of the vocal religious minority. Give a fundamentalist a few thousand nuclear missiles and the most expensive army the world has ever known, and brown people around the world start to get nervous. But we have to do it, because terrorists, or freedom, or something!
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
It's been my experience that most self-professed Christians worship money and power far more than they worship any deity.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
After the big bang and evolution big bombs the Pope just laid out this past summer/fall (he believes in them), I wonder what his take on this would be. Seeing as how this stupid woman used 'being a catholic' as an excuse to do it. There are some hints already that he thinks contraception is not necessarily a bad thing. Granted he didn't get all he wanted at this years synod, but he is a relatively young Pope and if he can avoid being poisoned, or some other "sickness" from schemers (I don't doubt they would resort to this in their still medieval world and power structure), I bet there is a good chance it will be revisited. He is also against using religious beliefs and the catholic church as a means to achieve political power; which from what I understand has pissed off a lot of Bishops and Cardinals who likely have profited from using this as a tool for their "success".
-- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
I could conceive of this in a sex ed class.. ..
Only if there was a practical exam at the end of the year.
Blank until
Man, I know a few people here that need to hear that from somebody besides me. Tribalism is kind of a biological function. It illustrates how the same species can differentiate, almost 'fork', resulting in different phenotypes. If these wackos really don't want their message 'tainted', they definitely need to eliminate all the physical sciences.
And the parents? What's up?? Apparently they approve. It's not like the problem isn't chronic or anything. I guess in the middle of soccer matches and the beauty salon there just isn't enough time in the day to deal with the sprouts' education...
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
The parent did not use capitalization correctly. Yes, you consider yourself conservative, but allowing people to do drugs is not a Conservative (TM) position, it is a Liberal (TM) position. In fact, it is the intersection of liberal and conservative called libertarian. But, hey, those are just labels used to demonize and divide.
By the way, your argument falls apart in many ways, but mostly when kids are involved. Let's say mommy and daddy sit at home shooting up heroine (you shoot heroine, not LSD) and don't take care of their kids. Consequences, right? We put mommy and daddy in jail for child neglect and abuse. Great, now what do we do with the kids? Is it right to give them to some religious charity that will just indoctrinate them? Maybe there isn't a secular charity around to help. So, do we just tell the kids: "Oh well, mommy and daddy had to face consequences. You're on your own. Good luck." Or do we do something for them? If we do something for them with public money, that gives us control over what people put in their bodies, no? And, we have to do something for them because decades of history now show that you just perpetuate the problem by punishing the kids through punishing the parents.
Or, do we treat it like a public health issue, and get mommy and daddy treatment instead of taking them away from their kids? In which case, who pays for the treatment? We could put them in NarcAnon, but that doesn't really work and its a cult anyway. Again there might be some religious charities that will indoctrinate them. There might be some public charities. But that's really the problem with charities, they're unreliable, some are cults, and some indoctrinate into religions. So, we pay for it. Which, again, gives us some control over what goes in people's bodies, no? And, we end up doing that through taxation and regulation on what is available instead of an outright ban which hasn't worked at all.
We could be like Portugal and completely legalize everything. But, Portugal poured all of their former drug law enforcement dollars into public health treatment. There's no way in hell we would ever pour anywhere near 10% of what we currently put into drug law enforcement into public health treatment because we are a very punitive society (as evidence by your execution remark). So, we have to make a choice. And that choice is to not be a libertarian "paradise" that lets people put whatever in their bodies whenever for whatever reason.
I have no problem with conservative politics but can't stand their unwillingness to accept facts that don't agree with the broken parts of their philosophy.
What is wrong in the AZ debate is that they (the religious extremists) are mixing biology (science) and their personal beliefs.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Well it's "News for Nerds, stuff that matters".
Let me elaborate. The US is still, regardless of an individuals feelings towards it as a nation, the most influential nation with respect to sciences, technology and geo politics. People like me from Europe, but also plenty of your fellow country people from other states, are somewhat uneasy towards large areas of the US that are dominated by, to us, strange religious tendencies. At times it can feel like parts of the US aren't all that different to the Taliban in their general attitude, albeit the details differ vastly of course.
Now when things like this redaction of text books occurs, it lights up like a warning light that the, oh let's call them Christian just for the fun of it, might be making inroads again.
And the US's position towards science, technology and teaching of science is of utmost importance for the rest of the world due to the US's massive influence in these fields. No-one can ignore it.
In closing I'd also like to notice that anyone scared by the actual Taliban, that group of not so terribly well funded Reactionaries in a overall not so terribly important part of the world, should realize that they are a trivial non-issue that a fully Talibanized ("Christibanized") US would pose. Fantastically funded, large armed forces, nuclear weapons, a mega-power... if that became in it's total a state dominated by religious fundamentalists like that chick from that school board... that's a thought to shiver in fear of.
No less truth 'cause you chose to post this as an AC.
"The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
Yes, I did just say that. Got a problem with it? Tough shit. We're living in a world where there are assholes out there right now who are cutting off people's heads, ostensibly because of their 'religious war', throwing acid in the faces of little schoolgirls, because they have the gall to actually want to learn to read, write, do math, and learn history, and exterminate entire populations, just because they don't believe in some 'god' the same exact way that they do, and in general be violent pieces of shit, all in the name of some so-called 'god'. Now, here in the United States, a country that is supposedly a top-tier first-world nation, a country that peoples from all over the Earth go out of their way to come to to get an education, we're intentionally vandalizing textbooks because something in it 'offends someones religion'. Note also that we're living in a Nation where a certain state government wanted to 'officially' make Pi equal to 3 instead of 3.1415.. because the actual value was too complicated for them. I'm sorry, but it's official: The human race is getting stupider, not smarter; we apparently are descending back into superstition, ignorance, and barbarism, and I am at a loss to explain why this is happening or what to do about it. I guess I can just hope that it doesn't all go so completely to hell during what's left of my lifetime that all of our civilization collapses under it's own deadweight.
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
I just got one too, on a different article. First beta, now this?
Believe me, Americans are baffled by the religious extreme in our country too. I dont think i will ever go to Utah, for any reason because of extreme theocratic control. Sure its still America, but your neighbors will be pricks if you arent one of them (mormon)
Good-bye
Only if by "liberal" do you mean in the traditional sense of liberty and the Enlightenment period's understanding of the scientific method. It does not hold true for the American layman's use of the term for an ideology. For such pesudoscientific nonsense as eugenics, anti-vaccination, anti-GMO, "alternative" medicine, state censorship of violence in media, and complete ignorance of economics, you can't get much worse than American progressivism.
Wonder what the public key field is for?
The general sentiment is that in the USSR, the people at least knew their government was bullshitting them, but in the US, they succeeded. The people actually believe that they're living in paradise while in reality they are trapped in a hellhole.
I live in the U.S. I've also spent significant time living outside of the U.S. I agree with you that there are many, many things about the U.S. to criticize, and elements of its foreign policy are quite criminal.
However, your statement there is more than a little extreme. Many U.S. citizens do recognize that there are serious flaws (a lot of them post frequently on Slashdot, for example), though admittedly the pro-American rhetoric is stupid and ignorant at times.
On the other hand, I think compared to many years of life under the USSR, Americans are not "trapped in a hellhole." The USSR was in existence for roughly 70 years. Of those 70 years, the first 30 under Stalin experienced not only random purges and murders from the government, but largescale famines, along with economic and political uncertainty. For the last 15 years or so of the USSR, there was a gradual decline that saw economic conditions, shortages, etc. that are unlike anything generally seen in the U.S.
So, yeah, basically if by the "USSR" you want to only count the 25 years or so from the late 50s to the early 70s when conditions were pretty good, yeah the U.S. currently isn't much better than that.
But to say that U.S. people are gullible or dumb because they don't recognize -- unlike the USSR -- that the government is bad... well, we don't have random purges of people we know happening every other week... ya know, like Stalin did. In case you're unaware, Stalin ordered the murder of what historians estimate to be between 20 and 60 million people, most of them his own countrymen.
When everybody knows someone who "was disappeared" by the government, you can bet that citizens would become more suspicious of anything that government says.
In contrast, it's only in the past few years that it's become somewhat acceptable for the President of the U.S. to outright kill American citizens without a trial. Our leaders haven't deliberately killed tens of millions of citizens.
The only similar period in the U.S. that experienced turmoil on the level of most of the history of the USSR was probably during the Great Depression. So 10-15 years of the past century, compared to most years in the entire history of the USSR. And even then, the government wasn't going around killing people.
So yeah, I think some Americans are deluded about how "great" their country is, and they don't realize how many things have decayed or what rights have been restricted. But to call it a "hellhole" compared to the USSR where the citizens were smart enough to recognize how bad they had it... well, if the U.S. actually ever gets as bad as the world of Stalinist purges, I bet the American people would be smart enough to have the kind of cynicism you expect.
Whee, another chance to beat our chests and gloat about how superior we feel to those rubes.
You know how they're all into including other sides of the argument? Well, how about requiring them to teach the controversy of abortion vs. adoption, abortion vs. death of mother and/or baby, and adoption vs. abortion for rape-incest? That should get some healthy debate going among the pupils and provide loads of learning experiences for how to form coherent arguments, the difference between fact and opinion, the importance of evidence-based reason, and the importance of allowing people to hold their own opinions without fear of reprisals, how to examine issues and do background research, compensate for our logical fallacies and cognitive biases, hear all sides, and make up their own minds. You know, the kinds of individuals who are mature and well-informed and capable of dealing with all the challenges and problems that life's likely to throw at them. Or is that not what the AZ school board people want?
tl;dr - The school board don't want pupils thinking for themselves.
Catholics range from fundamentalist jerks like this woman to those like the Jesuits who are quite sophisticated philosophers and fully aware of the difficulties which arise aligning faith with reality. Unlike Protestants who are prone to start a new denomination when they have a disagreement, all Catholics tend to continue considering themselves Catholic but they build up cliques which can barely tolerate each other under the common umbrella of the main organization. I attended a Catholic high school even though my parents were Southern Baptist; this is not unusual in New Orleans where the Catholic schools have an excellent reputation for their secular education. They had a standard procedure for non-Catholics to opt-out of rituals like the Mass when those arose, although we did have to learn the major points of Catholic doctrine (which has turned out to be useful) and we also got a whole year of comparative religion hitting the main points of other world religions. I have to give it to the CSC that they weren't afraid to hold their own beliefs up for comparison with their competitors.
Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
Whoops, "heroin" not "heroine". Stupid homophones.
Aw belgium. You caught it too soon.
And here I was all set to come up with something about how it is the villainess that you need to shoot, not the heroine. :D
This space unintentionally left blank.
> Stupid homophones.
Right here in plain sight, we see the ugliness of your homophonophobia. NoH8!
The shorter version: fuck Republican stupidity.
And this is what keeps getting you modded down: it's not your opinions, it's your absolute lack of common courtesy towards people who don't hold the exact same opinions as you do. Right now, you've been modded down as Flamebait, and rightfully, because you've expressed yourself in a manner guaranteed to insult everybody you disagree with, and make them even less likely to be persuaded by your post. If you want anybody to pay attention to you, you might consider being more civil and less eager to insult.
Good, inexpensive web hosting
If they worship anything, it's a book, and generally the most negative, divisive, and barbaric parts of that book.
The Tea Party faction in control of the Gilbert AZ school board lost its bid for re-election.
There has been some huffing and puffing on both sides about what it might do before the new board takes control in January.
The AP Biology text is more symbol than substance.
The state of Arizona doesn't require sex education, which means that a general biology textbook is as close as a Tea Party controlled board will let students get to a serious discussion of sexual reproduction in humans, standards of sexual behavior, homosexuality, sexually transmitted diseases, contraception, abortion and so on.
Arizona law requires that districts that do offer sex ed must teach a preference for childbirth and adoption over abortion and inform students about date-rape drugs, dating violence, AIDS and other dangers.
State law requires textbooks that mention abortion to state that childbirth and adoption are preferable alternatives.
Sex ed controversies in Gilbert, Tempe an anomaly
[In Tempe, debate over a proposed two-week course in sex education] derailed when board Vice President Moses Sanchez challenged a section of the curriculum that explains birth-control devices. Sanchez asked whether an intrauterine device, or IUD, should be called an abortion method instead of a birth-control device because it works by preventing implantation of fertilized eggs.
Arizona law and board policy say a sex-ed curriculum must:
Emphasize the power of the individual to control one's own behavior.
Instruct students on how to say no to unwanted advances and peer pressure.
Teach students about the prevention of dating abuse.Stress that sexually-transmitted diseases have severe consequences.
Discuss the consequences of pregnancy.
Promote respect.
Stress abstinence until the students are mature adults.
Promote childbirth and adoption over abortion.
Instructional materials may not:
Promote a homosexual lifestyle.
Portray homosexuality as a positive alternative lifestyle.Include tests with questions about students' or their parents' beliefs regarding sex, family life, morals, values or religion.
Tempe Union High district still debating sex-ed program
You just proved the parent's point.
Well, that's probably good, since I actually agreed with 90% of what the parent said.
Indoctrination 101: "someone says something bad about your country, don't listen, defend!"
Logical fallacies 101: " If someone says something that's 90% true, but then includes demonstrably false assertions or makes unnuanced analogies, you should still act like that person is 100% correct. If anyone attempts to present a more nuanced perspective, you should immediately level an ad hominem attack, asserting that the person is obviously stupid and brainwashed."
just a few votes away from a tyranny of the vocal religious minority
Don't worry, the Latino Catholics will be a majority within the next decade. They work hard, raise they're kids right... do not deserve the ire of the racist American because they're far better than them, far more decent. YMWNV, they fear God, and they will not force you to become a Catholic when they get in power, which as I said, will be soon. Within the next 10 years they will be a majority, within the next 20 they will be in power and the nannystaters can then eat shit.
Shows what YOU know
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Perhaps we need an "old dudes who frequent slashdot" club or icon or something.
My suggestion for the sigil is a field of grass, deux shotguns croisés, beneath a hoveround-rampant.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
lol.. They have a constitutional right to those personal beliefs and the state is expressly forbidden from denying it or encouraging it or prohibiting it. So when the state compels a person's child to attend school, they either have to present contrary information in a neutral way or not at all when it comes to religion. Just because the page is removed from the books does not mean the material will not be taught. It just means it will not be taught in the way the book presents it.
But think about that. Suppose it was a speech issue, suppose you were for gay rights and the schools removed any mention of gay rights or gay struggles from the learning environment and brainwashed the children into thinking they have less rights and are not the same as "normal people". How about if they gave them bad grades or other punishment because they held a contrary belief and thought all man was created equal and should all enjoy the same privileges and abilities and have the same opportunities that everyone else can.
Does the state have the right to do that with your child when you are dead set on equal rights? what if the year was 1835 and it was colored people instead of gays? Well, even if you think they do, they are specifically barred from doing it with religion.
Troll? Au contraire. There is zero contemporaneous evidence for the existence of Jesus. Everything, and I mean everything, is some kind of report from people who never met Jesus, either by timing of birth against the story (Tacitus, Suetonius, Josephus, etc.) or as a consequence of first being introduced within the context of a story in a cobbled-together book, no part of which can we trace back any further than about 200 years after the story it tells about him ends.
On top of that, the cult that claims he existed has destroyed any customary grant of credibility they might have gained by reporting other historical events accurately, by inserting reports of walking on water, turning water into (copious amounts of) wine, magical healing (we *still* can't heal leprosy), raising the dead, and so on.
I am definitely outside the bounds of politically correct speech. Especially in the overwhelmingly superstitious USA. But I am in no way trolling. I'm just reporting the facts. If the facts upset you, perhaps you should do some additional thinking.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Other such dangers: physics, math, chemistry, geography, history, logic, and critical thinking.
Most of your rant aside. Texas is the 800 lb gorilla when it comes to school textbooks. Texas basically dictates the content of most school books, since Texas buys more school books than any other state, and thus imposes its will on the textbook publishers.
And last I checked, with the exception of Austin, most of Texas is definitely not "liberal". You have to wonder when "conservatives" find textbooks whose content is driven by one of the most conservative states too "liberal".
Unfortunately most modern "conservatism" boils down to "I don't like it, it must be liberal, and we all know that liberal is a bad thing."
I've lived in Gilbert, AZ, and in some ways, it is a mini bible belt in its own little domain. There are Jehova's Witnesses, Mormons, Catholics, and Protestants all locked in a political contest with one another. Gilbert is a really nice part of the east valley with safe neighborhoods and streets and friendly people. Its a shame religion is so embedded in politics. If you want to teach your kids creationism, the bible, and/or religion specific teachings, that's what Sunday school is for. Please don't dictate to me and my family your way of system of beliefs and force it onto me. I make the choice to be atheist but I don't come right out and criticize the faithful, rather it's the faithful that lambast me.
There are many parts of Europe that are very heavily religious as well. There are rednecks, bigots, zealots, and right wingers, as well. Some countries in Europe still automatically enroll all newborns into the state church, stores and even restaurants would shut down on Sundays in some places, etc. The notion that America is a unique anomaly in the industrialized world is somewhat short sighted, though it does tend to make people feel better about their own country's problems.
One reason this is more common in America is that government is highly decentralized, whereas Europe tends to have stronger central control. This story in particular is about one single person from a small town that was elected to a school board. Europe has a much higher percentage of population in cities, and cities tend to be more liberal overall, and thus enough percentage to dominate elections means that those on the center or right are easily ignored (though it's changing in the last decade or two). American on the other hand has a higher rural/semi-rural population and is not dominated by just one party, it changes often and the tug of war goes back and forth. If you look at the solidly liberal versions solidly conservative states in the US, it is only by a few percentage points either way.
The US are certainly (still) very different from the inside than the USSR was. But what I was talking about is how it is perceived from the outside. The US are no longer what they used to be for us, the big, strong buddy that may sometimes do things we don't quite get, but gives us that good feeling that he's actually the good guy and that, even while we might not always agree with him, won't do anything to deliberately harm anyone who doesn't quite deserve it for being an asshole.
Korea, Vietnam, even Iraq1 had a rather broad consensus internationally (ok, the former two of course outside the official position of the East Bloc) that it was a-ok. Hell, even when protests against Vietnam broke out inside the US, there was still a lot of sympathy for their actions. The general sentiment was that ok, it's not really nice and fine what they do, but hey, it's war. We know what war is like (back then we really still did...). They just wanna make it quick and if we learned one thing from WW2 then that no matter how horrible the war is, as long as you end it quicker it's ok.
Yes, there was actually MORE support for the Vietnam war in its later stages outside of the US than inside!
That the inside view is a COMPLETELY different one is out of the question. Never has the US been as dreadful to live in as the USSR, and maybe yes, maybe that's the reason why people still don't "get" how their government is bullshitting them. The US government was heaps more intelligent than the USSR's, they learned soon that you needn't limit the freedom of speech. As long as people just talk you will be hated, but that doesn't hurt. You just have to limit their ability to act upon their speech. You needn't imprison everyone who speaks out against you. Only those that gather a following and might pose a threat to the status quo.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm not sure anyone understands economics. Even real economists. Who politicians on both sides ignore anyway.
it's not your opinions, it's your absolute lack of common courtesy towards people who don't hold the exact same opinions as you do.
Not all opinions are worthy of respect and even courtesy. If people are going to be so stupid as to blatantly deny reality then force those opinions on others then yeah, fuck 'em.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"Science" is a liberal world view. It's inherently progressive. After all, science does not agree with the Bible, nor does it agree with those who do not wish to believe that global warming is happening, and allows people to circumvent old taboos with technology. You can see how it'd be a little scary.
-- sudon't
Air-ride Equipped
It comes from being willing to actually ask questions and observe the world to find our answers, rather than an unwavering loyalty to an ideology. In this case these fucknuts are taking their religious beliefs, based on nothing, and prioritizing them over actual science.
That phrase "based on nothing" is where you lose religious people, and expose your own belief system that isn't based in fact but supposition.
Don't get me wrong - I'm from Gilbert, AZ, and that lady had no business forcing her religious beliefs down everyone's throats and tearing out sound science because she was afraid of her beliefs not being equally represented. That kind of fear-based action is dangerous. It also gives religious, educated people a bad name.
Don't assume all of us religious people are "fucknuts", however. That's a broad stereotype that's just not fair to those of us with an open mind, have real faith in God, and want science to push forward unimpeded by any ideology - athiesm or fundamentalist.
People out there have had "spiritual" experiences that as are real as seeing the sun rise in the morning but can't explain easily or won't explain for fear of mockery at the hands of those who believe it is based on nothing. This lack of communication is often what leads to intellectual standoffs over crap like this textbook fiasco.
Actually you answered your own question without realizing it. Morality is not in the sphere of science so by implication must not influence what is put in textbooks. Science is by nature progressive since there is no forbidden knowledge. He is right because the issue of the morality of birth control has absolutely no relevance to the question of whether a biology textbook ought to discuss birth control. Conservative thinking wants to restrict what people know. To control their behavior by controlling information. This is fundamentally at odds with the foundational principals of science which makes science progressive or at least anti-conservative. Scientist hold morality as applying to how you use knowledge never to the knowledge itself. The same physics that gave us nuclear power (arguably a moral good) gave us the deadliest weapons ever created (undeniably a moral evil). The application of knowledge has moral questions but science is liberal because it never allows anything (including morality) to dictate the knowledge itself. Whatever the scientific method produces is published without limit or exception. Indeed caring about what people may do with it is a fallacy - the appeal to consequences.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Odd. it seems our fantasy works out great. No matter what metric you use, from quality of life to Gini-index, we're usually doing incredibly well. You might want to elaborate on your theory?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Believe me, Americans are baffled by the religious extreme in our country too. I dont think i will ever go to Utah, for any reason because of extreme theocratic control. Sure its still America, but your neighbors will be pricks if you arent one of them (mormon)
I hate to defend institutions I don't like, but.. give Utah a chance. It's really beautiful, like, some of the most beautiful geology in the whole country. I spent last weekend there, as I have many previous weekends. Mormons are individually pretty nice people, despite the history of the church and many of its current political activities, and if you don't live there you don't get the shunned and isolated feeling that non-mormon residents get. Even rural towns now have coffee shops and places that serve beer.
For hostility and small-town religious closemindedness, northern Wyoming, northern Idaho, and North Dakota all feel far worse than Utah, to me.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.