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Game Theory Analysis Shows How Evolution Favors Cooperation's Collapse

First time accepted submitter Ugmug (1495847) writes Last year, University of Pennsylvania researchers Alexander J. Stewart and Joshua B. Plotkin published a mathematical explanation for why cooperation and generosity have evolved in nature. Using the classical game theory match-up known as the Prisoner's Dilemma, they found that generous strategies were the only ones that could persist and succeed in a multi-player, iterated version of the game over the long term. But now they've come out with a somewhat less rosy view of evolution. With a new analysis of the Prisoner's Dilemma played in a large, evolving population, they found that adding more flexibility to the game can allow selfish strategies to be more successful. The work paints a dimmer but likely more realistic view of how cooperation and selfishness balance one another in nature."

9 of 213 comments (clear)

  1. Academic Beclowining by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just so you know, most of the people doing the work applying Game Theory to Sociology are just jacking off.

    Seriously. These are the people who found Psychology too rigorous and got thrown out of the Economics departments for making shit up.

    Here, check this shit out. Look especially at the last sentences:

    “It’s a somewhat depressing evolutionary outcome, but it makes intuitive sense,” said Plotkin, a professor in Penn’s Department of Biology in the School of Arts & Sciences, who coauthored the study with Stewart, a postdoctoral researcher in his lab. “We had a nice picture of how evolution can promote cooperation even amongst self-interested agents and indeed it sometimes can, but, when we allow mutations that change the nature of the game, there is a runaway evolutionary process, and suddenly defection becomes the more robust outcome.”

    In other words, "Cooperation works in social systems until I change the rules to get the outcome I want. Vote Rand Paul 2016."

    Seriously, Dr Plotkin, do U even Science, bro?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Academic Beclowining by Truekaiser · · Score: 1, Interesting

      This is mainly because people forget that the person who 'invented' game theory ended up being committed to an institution due to actually being a psychopath.
      Which is the major downfall of the theory is that it assumes all players have the same mindset. When he conducted tests with people in his office and the general population he was dumbfounded as to why they chose the cooperative path even though it was less statistically successful than the selfish path. I.E they chose to share the loot rather than lie to their partner about depositing their share in the agreed upon location and taking it all.

    2. Re:Academic Beclowining by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Just so you know, most of the people doing the work applying Game Theory to Sociology are just jacking off.

      Yeah, unfortunately... as Master Yoda might say, "Tilting at windmills you are."

      The larger context here isn't sociology, it's "evolution." Note that I put that in quotation marks for a reason -- there's a whole network of yahoos out there who spend time thinking up "just so" stories for their pet explanations of some evolved trait. They call it "evolutionary biology" or "evolutionary psychology" or "evolutionary sociology," but a lot of the practitioners do the same crap.

      -------------------

      Typical day at the office:

      "Scientist" X sits at his desk, bored: "Oh, woe is I! I am an evolutionary biologist, but I have too little funding to do any real experiments in my lab. What shall I do?!"

      "Scientist" Y, turning suddenly: "Lo, but we can 'do evolution research' without funding. Let us consider a question, like 'How did music evolve in humans and why?' That is a good question."

      "Scientist" X: "Yes! Yes! Yes! That is a great question! And since other primates don't really have musical culture in the same way, our 'findings' don't even need to be based on cross-species trends! We can just make up a story, a 'thought experiment,' just like the great Einstein!"

      "Scientist" Y: "Suppose one day a mother early hominid descended from her tree and went to gather food. Her infant baby hominid might be sad. Perhaps the mother would sing to let the infant know she was still there!"

      "Scientist" X: "Indeed. How I can see them now, in my 'thought experiment'! 'Tis a fantastic tale. Tell it to me again, please!"

      "Scientist" Y: "But shan't we publish it now? After all, our 'experiment' has proven the way music could have evolved!"

      "Scientist" X: "By golly, you're right. I'm already typing it up. Let's make up a few more stories like that, and publish it as a book on the 'origins of music', and we'll call it 'evolutionary musicology'!"

      "Scientist" Y: "Huzzah! Huzzah! We have 'done research'! Our book will sell!"

      And, lo -- the book did sell, and others did join this movement. Thence to all the corners of the Earth went the good news of the true story of music's evolution....

      -----------

      You think I'm joking. The book is out there. There are plenty of random made-up stories about stuff like this, that are supposedly to "explain" how things evolved. Even if the guys you're criticizing here are as bad as you say -- I haven't looked at their research in detail -- they got nothin' on a lot of stuff evolutionary biology people tend to do these days.

      (P.S. This post should NOT in any way be construed as attacking the general theory of evolution, which I do not mean to criticize in any way. I'm just criticizing all the awful crap that has begun to accumulate around the field as lots of folks jump on the "Let's plan the 'how could that have evolved' game!" bandwagon.)

  2. Re:TIt-for-tat fallacy by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What's unrealistic is believing one strategy is always favored by evolution. Evolution tries everything, so you get all strategies tried.

    The substantive argument here should be over this question: what is it that makes H. sapiens such a successful species? The vast majority of discourse on this, unfortunately, is tainted by ideological bias.

    I think what makes us successful can't be boiled down to one strategy without being simplistic. The minimum number of strategies that's interesting, in my opinion, is two, because realistic strategies have to interact. Personally the two I'd go with would be cooperation and behavioral flexibility, noting especially that behavioral flexibility sometimes works *against* cooperation. People cooperate to build a successful village, but during a disaster having a few selfish bastards who grab what they can and run is good for the survival of the species. But just because a *little* bit of something is good, doesn't mean a *lot* of it is good. So much selfishness people can't cooperate efficiently is too much selfishness. So little selfishness that nobody saves themselves when they can't save anyone else is too much selflessness.

    One more thing to chew on: nature doesn't owe you a justification for your behavior, and it's certainly not going to provide you a logically complete and non-contradictory ideology. It doesn't even give us that for arithmetic.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  3. Re:TIt-for-tat fallacy by doug141 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    what is it that makes H. sapiens such a successful species? .

    Start with the book Guns, Germs, and Steel.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  4. Re:Matters of Scale by blue+trane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Capitalism has outlived its usefulness, time to move on. I suggest Libertarian socialism. Start with a basic guaranteed income for all who want it. Fund it with money creation. The private sector creates on the order of 10 times more money than government; there is plenty of room for government fiscal policy (funded by the Fed, say, at zero cost) to reward altruistic behavior.

    Hamilton's rule: rB > C. If government makes the Cost negative, you get rewarded for altruism. Even if you are not related to the Beneficiary.

  5. Should be prefixed with: CLAIM! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Interesting idea, but logic dictates that if you try and make the game more favourable for cooperative styles of play, Game theory is utterly destroyed.

    To propose a paper where you only test 1 change is cause for concern, in the long run. Game theory is flawed at the onset - only Psychopaths and Accountants answer the question the way the original author intended.

    Thus I propose this: studies which are front page on /. which promote selfishism and neglect to tweak the experiment in the opposite direction should be prefixed with "Claim: ".

    Thoughts?

  6. Re:Matters of Scale by Kjella · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Actually capitalism has a huge section on utility theory, it's the basis of all bartering and trade. You're a fisherman but you've only got a limited utility of fish for your own use, which is why you're willing to sell fish to buy bread and the baker is willing to sell bread to buy fish. If you got your typical price-quantity curve the utility is the whole area under the curve, which companies try to extract as much as possible of as profit. The difference is that capitalism's utility theory optimizes on the individual level, you spend your money in order to gain as much benefit as possible and society's utility is the sum of the individuals' utility.

    Social theories optimize for the whole society and take into account externalities society has to bear the burden of like pollution, littering, congestion, crime and so on, even when it's to the disadvantage of some of the individuals. They fit in the same PQ chart though like this where the social optimum is offset relative to the micro-economic optimum. The issue is that often you end up with quite a lot of wealth redistribution because essential services to the poor have greater utility for society than luxuries for the rich, so while the total goes up it's clearly favorable for some and unfavorable for others.

    Then you run into the classic arguments that people change behavior to game the system and in order to not create needy individuals living on welfare you need to reward those who produce value instead, which is countered by arguing that those on welfare need education and opportunities to become net contributors to society and so on. It's not really easy to understand society's dynamics, but as a static snapshot they're not really all that different. It just depends on what "costs" you take into consideration and what you optimize for.

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    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  7. Re:Justifying by Sique · · Score: 4, Interesting
    The argument against Ayn Rand's philosophy is Douglas Adams' story of the people from Golgafrincham as told in The Restaurant at the End of the Universe. The Class A people try to get rid of all those people that make their life miserable(*) by insisting on rules and procedures and regulations, and to keep only the serfs and drones just like John Galt who withdraws to his island in an attempt to throw out all those pesky socialists out of his life.

    The consequence Douglas Adams points out is that an incomplete society based solely on the egoisms of its members will die out from the next triviality -- in his case the infected telephone.

    (*) For Class A values of "miserable"

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    .sig: Sique *sigh*