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Open Source Craft Brewery Shares More Than Recipes

Posted by samzenpus on from the mmmmm-beer dept.

Jason Hibbets writes An open source craft brewery in Saint Paul, Minnesota is taking open source beyond sharing recipes. The goal for Tin Whiskers Brewing Company is to "engage and give back to the community by sharing an inside look at opening and operating a craft brewery." In this interview with co-founder George Kellerman, we learn a little more about why the trio of hobbyists who started the brewing company took the path to becoming professional brewers and why they decided to be more open. "The brewery community was extremely helpful and open, so being open ourselves seemed like a great way to honor that," Kellerman said.

50 comments

  1. Free as in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    BEER!

    1. Re:Free as in by xevioso · · Score: 2

      Why is this even an article? The local brewcraft shop down the street has dozens of great recipes, and they will even make one up for you on the spot when you order the ingredients for a 5-gallon batch of beer. They have a small area where you can grab a copy of many of their past recipes for beer as you walk out the door. Big deal. It's my understanding this is quite common. Why is this an article again?

    2. Re:Free as in by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read it again...or for the first time. It is not just the recipes but all the techniques as well. Also, they help their customers share recipes between each other as well.

      Yeah, its not an "OMG Ponies" kind of thing, if you have a local shop that does all of that already then awesome for them and you, this is the first business I've heard about that is actually advertising that they are sharing everything and not just some local secret.

  2. the by Ahnahmoley · · Score: 2

    More the recipes. Really?

    1. Re:the by dysmal · · Score: 1

      Someone set us up the bomb!

    2. Re:the by Chocolate+Teapot · · Score: 2

      All yours beers are belong to us!

      --
      Modest doubt is called the beacon of the wise. - William Shakespeare
  3. The editors accidentally the "than"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    O editors, where art thou?

    1. Re:The editors accidentally the "than"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were sampling the brew at the time.

    2. Re:The editors accidentally the "than"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They were sampling the brew at the time.

      I hope they're not as think as you drunk they are.

  4. Shares More the Recipes by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

    All your the base are belong to the us.

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re:Shares More the Recipes by asvravi · · Score: 1

      While Google just watched the eye-wear, eh samzenpus?

  5. Open source business plans by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

    Don't get you open source business loans. Let's be honest: banks and investors decide what local businesses are going to happen, except in the case of people who are already rich.

  6. Not really open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The recipes lack IBUs as well as grain percentages which are needed to actually produce one of these "recipes". Sure a good brewer could pretty easily guess for basic styles but is still a far cry from open source. Its like having a specification for an engine be "iron, steel, gaskets, crankshaft"

    1. Re:Not really open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I believe it is traditional for "free beer" to not compile properly on the first version.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Beer

    2. Re:Not really open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The "Open Source" part is complete bullshit. There is tons of freely available information about brewing, recipes and how to start a brewery.

      http://www.probrewer.com

      They are doing nothing new except being pretentious about it.

    3. Re:Not really open source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was the first thing I noticed when looking at their stout recipe.

  7. :-D SHARE MORE THE RECIPES! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    :-( Share MORE the recipes??

  8. Open source this, open source that... by blueshift_1 · · Score: 1

    The real questions is, what can't be open source :o

  9. This is not new by MpVpRb · · Score: 4, Informative

    Vinnie Cilurzo of Russian River published a homebrew recipe for Pliny the Elder along with a detailed description of how he designed it

    Mitch Steele of Stone wrote a book on IPA which included recipes for many of Stone's beers

    Craft brewing and homebrewing have a long and interconnected history

    Many craft brewers started as homebrewers and many craft breweries own homebrew supply stores and support homebrew clubs

    The craft brewers I have visited freely answered any questions I asked

    1. Re:This is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Northern Brewer sells a full line of pro series kits that were designed with the various brew masters.

    2. Re:This is not new by xevioso · · Score: 2

      You will note that Mr. Cilurzo has not published recipes for Pliny the Younger, which causes people to foolishly camp outside the brewery and go on ridiculous searches for the beer as soon as rumors abound that it is in season.

      --Jeremy

    3. Re:This is not new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mobcraft in Madison, WI crowdsources recipes, brews them, and publishes them.

    4. Re:This is not new by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      PtY is not difficult to reverse-engineer. It's expensive to make, though, and the ratio of beer nerds to homebrewers is high enough that making it yourself doesn't really put a dent in their market.

    5. Re:This is not new by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      Many crafter brewers will simply give you their recipes -- or at least, the important details -- if you e-mail them and ask.

  10. The real trade secret is the yeast by schneidafunk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From my understanding, the most successful breweries are not as concerned about their recipes being stolen because they have a proprietary yeast strain that they own and no one else can get.

    For example: http://globalnews.ca/news/1542...

    --
    Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by QRDeNameland · · Score: 3, Informative

      From my understanding, the most successful breweries are not as concerned about their recipes being stolen because they have a proprietary yeast strain that they own and no one else can get.

      Not to mention...not all breweries are the same. For instance, many German brewers use a traditional method called decoction mashing where portions of the mash are drawn off and boiled and then returned to the main mash to raise the temperatures for various enzymatic reactions, which will yield malty flavors that are difficult to achieve otherwise. Very few breweries outside Europe have this capability, in fact many smaller US craft breweries only allow for one step infusion mashing (hot water added to grain where the mash can only have one temperature stage) which limits the kinds of malts that can be used as the lightest and least modified malts require multiple stages of temperature rests. This is why it is exceeding rare for N. American breweries to be able to fully reproduce the flavors of e.g., a German Pils.

      So much of brewing relies on process that just knowing the "recipe" (i.e., just the specific ingredients) is not a guarantee of being able to reproduce the beer.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    2. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you explain decoction mashing a bit more? Why can thisnot be done in North America?

    3. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For instance, many German brewers use a traditional method called decoction mashing where portions of the mash are drawn off and boiled and then returned to the main mash to raise the temperatures for various enzymatic reactions, which will yield malty flavors that are difficult to achieve otherwise.

      That's a complete myth, everything you do with a decoction mash can be achieved using specially grains.

    4. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Frankly, I don't think craft brewers are that interested in copying recipes. If I want Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, I'll just get that. And speaking of Sierra Nevada, every bottle contains a bit of live yeast so you can clone their yeast if they want to.

      As a home brewer, I am not going to stop buying beer just because I have some recipes.

    5. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by jgtg32a · · Score: 1

      It can be but it isn't

    6. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by houghi · · Score: 1

      The same goes for ANY receipe. Take a look at a real cookingshow (where they actiualy cook) and sometimes they must make something where they get a recipe. They all get the same, yet it all tastes (and looks) different.

      Furthermore it is cooking, not chemistry. If you need to add two tamatoes, how big are they? If they say 200gram tomatoes, what kind? If they say 200gram cherry tomatoes, how ripe are they? What is the quality?

      There is a reason breweries have a brewmaster. He tastes all during the process to see if anything needs changing and adjusts things when needed. And a propriarty yeast train will help it a bit, but if they give it to you, you will not be able to make the same beer.

      It is as having identical computers would make you identical coders or gamers and that is just not true. (I know, I am a lousy coder/gamer)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    7. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real differences come down to the brewing system and the techniques that are unique to your brewery. You and I can take the same recipe and brew two completely different tasting beers based on the design of our fermentation tanks, the way I mash and sparge or how/if we control temps. Beer is a little more art than science in most cases.

      And just to be fully forth coming, I am a homebrewer. I make a fairly large selection of beers that are very, very good but I do not make beers that are exactly like anyone other brewer's version.

      Craft brewing is a group effort with no fixed finish line.

    8. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Not the OP, but am a brewer.

      There are 3 ways to conduct a decoction mash: single, double and triple. You start the mash by adding milled grains to hot water, as you would with a regular step or single infusion mash. Then, after a certain period of time (say, 30 minutes), the brewer removes a portion of the grist (wet, soggy grains) from the mash tun and places it into a kettle, where it is then heated until it boils. This is then returned to the mash tun to continue mashing. Part of the effect here is that the boiling grist raises the overall temperature of the mash*. The portion of the grain to remove varies based on the malt profile you wish to achieve from the mashing process. If you do this process one time, it is a single decoction; twice a double and thrice a triple.

      Decoction mashing can certainly be done in North America, even on a homebrew scale, but is often not done because it is extremely labor intensive. A traditional triple decoction mash can take 6 hours, just for the mashing process. For comparison, a regular, simple single temperature infusion mash generally is conducted for 60 minutes.

      Back in the day, when decoction mashing was invented (by the Germans), grains were not as well modified as they are today and as such, had a lower (sugar) yield compared to today's grain. So, decoction mashing was a way to increase grain yields out of the same amount of grain.

      Opinions on it today are varied, with some folks thinking that there is no use for it anymore because of the highly modified grains that we enjoy. Other folks opine that the malt profile that a decoction mash achieves is unique and particular and the only way to truly produce a German-style beer.

      * When you mash grains, temperature affects the molecular structure of the extracted sugar. Lower temperatures result in shorter chain sugars, which are more fermentable. Higher temperatures result in longer chained sugars, which are less fermantable and leave more un-fermented sugar in the beer; this unfermented sugar contributes to the 'body' of a beer.

      Hope this clears things up a bit :)

    9. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Excellent and comprehensive explanation.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    10. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      As the AC noted above, opinions differ on the subject, but also note that I said 'difficult', not 'impossible'. However, having done both, my opinion is that decoction mashing produces a flavor profile that specialty grains can not.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
    11. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Very few breweries outside Europe have this capability, in fact many smaller US craft breweries only allow for one step infusion mashing (hot water added to grain where the mash can only have one temperature stage) which limits the kinds of malts that can be used as the lightest and least modified malts require multiple stages of temperature rests.

      Somehow I find that hard to believe, as even my buddy's little home brew machine can do that. All you need is a temperature sensor and timer hooked up to the heating element, a typical schema looks like "52C/15 min, 64C/20 min, 72C/20 min, 77C/5 min". Heck, you can even do it manually with an egg timer but if you only have a simple cut-off temperature switch I'd rather go with a simplified scheme like "66C/60 min" and spend that hour doing something else. I can't really imagine industrial equipment without this capability though.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    12. Re:The real trade secret is the yeast by QRDeNameland · · Score: 1

      Don't know what to tell you, but I've toured I-don't-know-how-many US/Canadian brewpubs and they were all single-step infusion set ups. I can't speak to your buddy's homebrew machine, but in many ways a home brewery can be much more flexible than a small commercial brewery. Generally speaking, to do proper step-mashing you need a separate vessel for heating the mash in addition to the lautering vessel, which is obviously more costly and takes up more space. You can do limited step mashing in a single mash vessel set up by adding more hot water, but there are limitations to what you can do there.

      --
      Momentarily, the need for the construction of new light will no longer exist.
  11. Misinterpretation by organgtool · · Score: 1

    I read this headline thinking that shares of a publicly traded beer brewing company somehow became sentient and used the pager "more" to view recipes.

  12. Magic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Their recipe diagrams leave a lot of critical information out... like ingredient quantities, water chemistry, and how their boil kettle magically gets the wort from boiling, down to ~150F before hitting the heat exchanger. That is some magic i'd certainly like in my home brewery.

  13. More hops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    The secret to craft brewing beer?

    1. Take any beer recipe.
    2. Add additional hops!
    3. Add even more hops!!
    4. Oh so much more hops!!!
    5. Profit!!!!
  14. The website states exactly what yeast by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 4, Informative

    strains they use to brew each beer:

    Short Circuit Stout--Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)
    Flip Switch APA--Wyeast 1272 (American Ale II)
    Wheatstone Bridge--Wyeast 1010 (American Wheat)
    Ampere Amber--Wyeast 2112 (California Lager)
    Schottky Pumpkin--Wyeast 2035 (American Lager)

    All commercially available to anyone who wants them:

    https://www.wyeastlab.com/

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:The website states exactly what yeast by schneidafunk · · Score: 1

      I am by no means an expert. I have never made beer myself but have friends that take it very seriously. It's possible to start with a commercial strain and have it evolve into something your own.

      Maybe this was a better link to post, although I found the first one more interesting:

        http://www.answers.com/Q/What_...

      --
      Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    2. Re:The website states exactly what yeast by schneidafunk · · Score: 1

      I had to go back and check because you made me doubt myself. As stated in the article:

      “As the yeast becomes more unique over time it contributes those characteristics to the flavour and the character of the beer, so potentially this is different than yeast used anywhere else,” said Wall.

      “It’s been pretty much separated from mixing with any other yeast and is kept alive, so each batch you keep a little bit and use it in the next and it grows up more, the same thing can be done traditionally in a bakery.”

      David Thiessen, a student from SIAST’s bioscience technology program, is using DNA techniques to characterize the genetic identity of GWBC’s proprietary yeast culture.

      “Then they will see how close a match it is to an existing strain at yeast banks,” said Fuller.

      --
      Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
    3. Re:The website states exactly what yeast by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      That's only true if you propagate yeast (internally) for many generations. You can also buy yeast, which a lot of brewers do because it saves them the trouble of doing careful quality control on a microbial culture.

      It's also possible to acquire other brewers' yeasts unless they filter or sterilize their beer. Yeast labs do this on a regular basis and then sell it to other breweries (and to homebrewers). The yeast from The Alchemist, for example, is available from a couple of different companies now.

      Only a handful of yeast strains are so interesting that their being "proprietary" is economically valuable. A lot of those have been cloned and are commercially available. Some are mixed microbial cultures (like with lambics), which are very challenging to copy because they're sensitive to their particular environment.

      Really, the answer is that brewers don't worry about others stealing their secrets too much, because the market is big, it's pretty easy to make interesting beer recipes, and there are so many process variables that's it's very hard to make exact clones even if you have another person's secrets.

    4. Re:The website states exactly what yeast by bill.e.gloat · · Score: 1

      Moreover, most craft beers are unfiltered making it trvial to harvest yeast straight from the bottle.

  15. It's not that hard by sdguero · · Score: 1

    This may be an unpopular opinion, but IMO, brewing beer is pretty easy. It's not like there is a lot of information to "open source" like in a modern operating system. Seems stupid to even call it "source" unless you are giving away free yeast or something.

    1. Re:It's not that hard by blueg3 · · Score: 1

      They do say which commercially-available strains they use.

  16. With the price of hops these days... by Ellis+D.+Tripp · · Score: 1

    adding more of them seems a strange way to increase profits...

    https://beerfests.com/blog/bee...

    --
    Remember "News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters"? Help make it a reality again! http://soylentnews.org
    1. Re:With the price of hops these days... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And why do you think the price of hops is so high?

      Supply and demand.