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A Backhanded Defense of Las Vegas' Taxi Regulation
At Medium.com, Blake Ross takes a tongue-in-cheek look at the consumer protections that exist courtesy of the the Nevada Taxicab Authority, which (putting it mildly) seem to be rather more friendly to the existing taxi businesses in Las Vegas than they are to any disgruntled riders. By contrast with Uber (just booted from Las Vegas), Ross points out that the Taxicab Authority relies on antiquated complaint forms, random police checks, overlooked airport signs, and expensive tracking devices. Nonethess, says Ross, "I stand with Nevada and say—leave this to the pros."
The Strip's monorail could trivially have extended to the airport, but that plan was nixed in order to preserve the taxis' revenue stream. What a crock.
But it's got fuck-all to do with anything nerdy I can think of. Medium.com is covering this well. Let them handle it.
...in the taxi market, which is why we have regulation today.
And we've already seen how psychopathically Uber is willing to behave, for the avoidance of doubt.
Yeah, the first hit's always cheap. Do Americans have history classes in school?
Actually it'd have to go through the Tropicana, and/or swerve around several blocks because the side of the airport that faces the strip is the runways. Getting the monorail out there would be a clusterfuck to say the least.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Based on how Walmart is one of the biggest employers in the country despite their horrible labor practices, apparently they weren't paying attention in school.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Do Americans have history classes in school?
Yes, I can see eager young minds salivating at the thought of learning more about the exciting history of taxi regulation in the US. Come on, man; nobody in the nerderati even knew about taxi regulations until we started talking about Uber. Everyone's an expert on whatever topic they Google about.
It's arguable that the current system of regulations is worse than the system that preceded it.
Apparently not. But I am American, and I understand the problem here.
What bothers me isn't the lack of an understanding of history but rather a lack of understanding about civics.
Regulations can suck, but they don't -have- to.
If the regulation sucks, reform the regulations. Don't throw a huge hissy fit and shit the bed out of spite.
There's so much entitled Valley logic in the business model at Uber that it's hideously disturbing,
(Not to mention the whole "let's get a PI on a journalist who didn't like us" thing)
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
When he says "...leave this to the pros", could it be said that he means "leave it to the local mafia and let the palm greasing begin!"
Lolz
At certain times (generally Friday after rush hour to midnight and Saturday evenings/nights), it is faster and probably cheaper to take the highway to strip hotels on the west side of the strip (it's easier to get to the east side strip hotels going the back way). Anytime you cross (or God forbid have to travel on) the strip in traffic, it adds quite a bit of time/money to your journey. Some west side hotels are inconvenient from any route, though (Monte Carlo and Mirage, and to a slightly lesser extent, Caesar's, immediately come to mind).
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
If you think the point of that article was to defend Nevada, you don't understand irony.
Another uber-sponsored piece. This law-breaking mega-corporation has no ethics, no standard and violation of laws and regulations (as well as tax evasion) comes natural to this 40 billion dollars monster.
There's so much entitled Valley logic in the business model at Uber that it's hideously disturbing,
There may be that, I'm not 100% sure. However, it is very hard for me not to see all these complaints about "rider safety" and such as nothing more than "protect the taxi companies!".
I've not heard of a single case of an Uber or Lyft ride going terribly wrong. Were there large numbers of cases of such they'd be out of business virtually overnight. If the taxi companies screw people over day after day you're going to do what about it? File a paper form that someone will promptly lose?
I was raised on the command line, bitch
"Nemo me impune lacesset"
Forgot to mentions, the some countries, states and cities have banned to move present day ride-sharing form.
NOT the technology. Technology is always welcome, but the underlying business enterprise should follow law no matter
how many iPhone apps you have.
Now you have.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/a...
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
Sorry I travel 2 sometimes 3 times a month to Vegas and I have to say outside of NYC it's the biggest taxi racket out there. Because of the terminal locations, it's a guaranteed $10 sometimes $15 bucks before you even get to the Strip because of the circuitous routing and roads. One time I had a driver "miss" the airport exit and then had to argue with him over the extra $13 bucks on the meter because of his mistake. So now I rent cars when I go there and again, Vegas leads this category in stupidity. Hike to the Rental Car Shuttle Bus, ride for 10 minutes, more lines, more hassle and oh yeah nice "Franchise" fees on top of "Airport Taxes" to pile onto the car. Still, it's better than a taxi there.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
http://www.forbes.com/fdc/welc...
If a taxi company screws with me in New York I can get redress because our regulators aren't idiots.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I just visited Vegas and was surprised there was no Uber. Ignoring the price differential as a motivating factor, Uber drivers for the most part are polite. The Vegas drivers didn't exchange a single word with me, one sat on the phone and chatted angrily about stuff with someone. Frankly, I dread returning to Vegas at the moment simply because Uber (or a better taxi system) is available to consumers.
Come on, man; nobody in the nerderati even knew about taxi regulations until we started talking about Uber.
Actually, anybody who knows anything about how labor unions -- and, in the case of Las Vegas, the spectre of organized crime syndicates -- use their political muscle to destroy free market competition knows pretty much whatever they need to know about this situation. Uber/Lyft represented a threat to the government-enforced near monopoly of the taxi market, using laws created by labor unions and pitched to politicians in concert with generous campaign contributions. Business as usual.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Regulations can suck, but they don't -have- to.
Like any tool, regulations can be abused. That's why We The People should be especially vigilant in allowing them to be established in the first place. As hard as I might try, I can't find anything in the federal and state Constitution that empowers the government to look out for me making shitty decisions. Therefore, the government has no business saying who can or cannot drive a taxi. If Uber gives shitty service, they will fail because the market will MAKE them fail. It's not the government's job to choose winners and losers when it comes to providing voluntary services.
These regulations are protection rackets, no more, no less.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Just make it high enough that the planes can go under it. :-D
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
http://valleywag.gawker.com/an...
There have been allegations of sexual assault and kidnapping, both of which aren't particularly good news. Uber's early responses were poor (e.g. not doing anything), but the most recent sexual assault has resulted in a suspended driver.
I agree that taxi lobbying has been disturbingly effective over time, resulting in diminished service quality, high prices, and licensing conditions that favor taxi dispatch companies rather than taxi drivers. These artificially restricted markets have effectively created environments ripe for disruptive alternatives.
That said, what Uber is doing with Uber X is typically illegal. For instance, in California, vehicles transporting fewer than 15 passengers one-way on a hire basis are required to file for a TCP P permit. The filing fee is $1000, and renewal is $100 every three years. Additional liability insurance (typically for $750k for Uber-type vehicles) is also required, as is controlled substance testing (drug, alcohol).
So when you got in Uber Black cars back in the early days (when that was the only type of Uber), you hopped into the vehicle of a state-licensed driver with an investment in the profession. These days, when you hop into an Uber X, it's a less consistent experience. Sometimes it's a lost out-of-towner. Sometimes there are groceries in the trunk (not a joke). Sometimes the drivers are dangerously sleepy/incompetent/distracted.
Oddly, one impact I've noticed in Uber X cities is that the Uber Black drivers have toned down the limo aspect. Most Uber Black drivers that I encounter don't wear suits, supply water or mints, help with bags, or make an effort to stop accurately. The overwhelming majority of drivers that I talk with have dropped non-uber commitments (e.g. airport runs for known contacts), so it's probably just part of the evolution of the service.
Back on point, the "entitled Valley logic" point is, at the very least, founded in the evidence of a company knowingly profiting from poor enforcement of local/regional laws and deferral of responsibility to "private contractors" (stretching the envelope of the IRS definition of a contractor).
Code first and ask lawyers later (or never) is more the hallmark of San Francisco than the Valley/South-bay, but it feels like a fair point. I'm a fan of Uber, but I can take a reasoned view of the organization and its actions.
I love seeing journalists, regulatory experts, politicians, and taxicab companies ridiculed by opinionated unemployed programmers in widely-distributed unaccountable news sites. It's so dysruptive!
Maybe tomorrow some taxi drivers can take over some chunks of the Firefox codebase. I mean, their opinion matters as much as the programmers, right?
Or is it just entitled little bitches from the valley that get to tell the rest of us what we're doing wrong?
http://www.forbes.com/sites/go...
speaking of screwing up...
Stupid forbes capture page.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I've not heard of a single case of an Uber or Lyft ride going terribly wrong.
I guess it depends on your definition of "terribly wrong".
Uber Suspends Driver Accused of Sexual Assault (http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Police-Make-Arrest-After-Woman-Accuses-Uber-Driver-of-Assault-268755481.html)
Uber driver accused of hammer attack on S.F. rider (http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Uber-driver-accused-of-hammer-attack-on-San-5783495.php)
Uber Driver Arrested For Allegedly Kidnapping California Woman (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/04/uber-driver-kidnapping-los-angeles_n_5442676.html)
Florida Uber driver says he grabbed customer’s breast because she wasn’t wearing a bra (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-uber-driver-grabs-female-passenger-breast-cops-article-1.1953167)
And then there's The Ten Worst Uber Horror Stories (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/19/the-ten-worst-uber-horror-stories.html)
As someone who's on the opposite coast, Valley and San Francisco both are one and the same to me. So, oops.
I'm also a fan of the ride sharing concept. When I flew out of Laguardia last week, I took an Uber from the Roosevelt Ave/Jackson Heights station to LGA and the process was smooth and simple(Also I had Uber credit so, might as well).
I just don't like Uber as a company.
Lyft seems like it's doing the right thing by complying with NYC taxi regulations though. So I'm going to have to look into that.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Your .sig says "I'd rather be free to choose, even if I make the wrong choices." Getting into a gypsy cab in NYC was the last choice some people made, back in the bad old days of the 1990s. Personally, before I put my life in the hands of a cab driver, I'd like to have some idea that the driver is licensed and the cab was inspected at some point. There's a difference between bringing new technology to improve an old market, and doing an end-run around all of the rules."Wouldn't soccer be so much better if people could use their hands?"
What state? Most taxi regulators are in a city or municipal area, so that would be a local remit anyway.
But nope, your stupidity isn't the issue, the criminality is, and the authority to regulate commerce is a state and federal one.
While I'm generally pro free-market, Vegas is a place where some regulation is good for the environment as a whole, and without it, there would be a tiny tragedy of the commons issue.
Taxi regulations in Vegas require the drivers picking up passengers from taxi stands take all fares, no matter the distance. Because the walk from Bellagio to New York New York is complicated by City Center, it's a pain in the ass 20 minute one-mile hike up and down escalators and possibly into and out of the shops at the Cosmo with your "date" in a little black dress and high heels parading around at 4am after the club closes...or a one mile taxi ride.
Regulated taxis must "gleefully" accept that fare.
An unregulated taxi driver doesn't have to short-haul you from B to NY, picking up a one mile fare with no wait time on the meter at 4am. That's a $3.45 flag drop, and about $3.75 for the mile, and while getting $10 after a tiny tip for a short haul might seem fun, short hauls are a terrible way to make money as a taxi driver. There's too much waiting in line for the next fare.
The market would correct itself, of course, but it'd do so by raising the price of flag drops and making short hauls more expensive. If it does that, Taxi drivers do better, but it hurts the overall tourist environment in Vegas, which hurts tourism, which ultimately makes life worse for the taxi industry and its drivers.
For other fun short-hauls in Vegas, try taking a taxi from Cesars to The Rio. It's 2 minute drive of less than a mile with no wait, even in heavy traffic (from the south tower entrance to the front entrance at the Rio) or anther 20 minute walk, this time crossing some of the best traffic in all of Las Vegas.
n.b. As a young man, I dispatched for a taxi company, and a member of my immediate family spent the last decade as the operations manager for the largest taxi company in one of the biggest cities in the country -- although not a heavy "taxi city" (not NY, LV, Chicago).
Well, taxis have their own horror stories, including at least one serial killer.
Sexual assault is only a click away (googled "taxi driver assault" and skipped the advertisement)
Grabbing the breasts is only ONE of the things this taxi driver did...
kidnap and rape
But I understand your rebuttal of somebody saying they've never heard of a ride gone bad with Uber. Personally, I think the important part would be rate at which things go wrong(and horribly wrong).
I don't read AC A human right
My American history class didn't teach me anything about regulatory capture.
Sorry I travel 2 sometimes 3 times a month to Vegas and I have to say outside of NYC it's the biggest taxi racket out there. Because of the terminal locations, it's a guaranteed $10 sometimes $15 bucks before you even get to the Strip because of the circuitous routing and roads. One time I had a driver "miss" the airport exit and then had to argue with him over the extra $13 bucks on the meter because of his mistake. So now I rent cars when I go there and again, Vegas leads this category in stupidity. Hike to the Rental Car Shuttle Bus, ride for 10 minutes, more lines, more hassle and oh yeah nice "Franchise" fees on top of "Airport Taxes" to pile onto the car. Still, it's better than a taxi there.
If you go the non-highway route, it's pretty direct. There's not much "circuitous routing" at all. And compare the airport-to-where-most-people-go fares to other cities' fares - it's quite low. I'm not defending anyone trying to make your ride longer and charging for it, I'm just saying Las Vegas is one of the best cities in the country for cabs if everything's honest. Next time you get in a cab in non-peak times, say "Take Tropicana" if you're going to the South side of the strip, and say, "Take Swenson" if you're going anywhere north of City Center/Planet Hollywood. The cabbie will think you know where you're going and won't take you out of the way.
As far as renting a car goes, it takes an extremely long time unless you go to Hertz or Avis, who invariably charge double or more what the discount places charge. I made the mistake of renting from Dollar one time, and I certainly got what I pad for. At least a dozen people in line and one agent. On subsequent rentals, I see the same thing at Dollar/Fox/etc... - hideous lines and one or maybe two agents. I'd rather spend $15-20 each way on cab fare and save an hour, but if your time is worth nothing, then the discount places may be worth it to you.
I don't want to achieve immortality through my work. I want to achieve it by not dying. - Woody Allen
If the regulation sucks, reform the regulations. Don't throw a huge hissy fit and shit the bed out of spite.
Like dumping tea in the harbor.
You say "reform the regulations" as if the "two" party system in the USA actually represents our interests at all.
So no, we won't just politely file our objections in the round bin, and we won't stop with our "hissy fit" any time soon.
Regulation of industry, particularly interstate industry is in the Constitution(Article 1, section 8). Furthermore, States have the right to further regulate industry in their own jurisdictions.
Some of the taxicab regulations are protection rackets, but some of them are high barriers to entry for a reason. Namely things like public safety and accountability.
Like I said, regulations don't have to suck.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
These days, when you hop into an Uber X, it's a less consistent experience. Sometimes it's a lost out-of-towner
I find this in "normal" taxis in New York and Chicago. The drivers are asking me where things are. I'm thinking "do you know what a GPS is?" Then they don't take credit cards (or the credit card reader "isn't working") or they do so by rubbing a pencil on a piece of paper on top of your card and you see the charge a month later.
Yes. It's called rugby.
The important part is surely what do the regulations do to prevent negative experiences. We already have a form of regulation which are laws against these kind of things that lead to prosecution and jail sentences. Then one should consider that not all regulation is government regulation. Companies are apparently adjusting their rules to take account of concerns that people have. If they didn't, they'd lose customers to the competition that does and go out of business. Of course, if the government don't adjust their regulations appropriately, you always have the choice to... Oh wait.
National. Book the car in advance and pick up the car from the Emerald Aisle with the key in the ignition. (Not affiliated, have just used them in the past. Of course, other people were paying)
Cab drivers in Vegas are supposed to use the shortest route to airport but will us the longer route to get extra bucks. If you call them on it they will cut the fare to the proper one rather than risk a confrontation and potentially losing their license (1). All I've had to do is when given the fare ask "Why did you use the longer route instead dog the proper one?" and I get an "Damn" look and the driver charges me properly. Conversely, if a driver uses the proper route I give a tip that covers the difference plus and thank him for doing so.
Note 1: This was told to me by a LV cabbie
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
Do Americans have history classes in school?
History, propaganda, whatever...
As far as renting a car goes, it takes an extremely long time unless you go to Hertz or Avis, who invariably charge double or more what the discount places charge. I made the mistake of renting from Dollar one time, and I certainly got what I pad for. At least a dozen people in line and one agent. On subsequent rentals, I see the same thing at Dollar/Fox/etc... - hideous lines and one or maybe two agents. I'd rather spend $15-20 each way on cab fare and save an hour, but if your time is worth nothing, then the discount places may be worth it to you.
Hertz is more expensive but when I used them I didn't even have to wait in line or go to a counter: there was a board with names on it next to spot numbers and the car I had reserved was there with the keys in it. There was only a short wait at the exit booth while the operator checked my ID and made sure I was in the right car before opening the exit gate. You get the speed that you pay for.
why not go underground?
So, no convictions?
Kind of hard to tunnel through the foundation pilings of large existing buildings.
avoid the place
why visit a city that is, in fact, deeply hostile to visitors? I've never worked out why they are, or why people continue to visit.
stand in line in the sun for half an hour at the airport to get the only way out (a taxi) that then rips you off on the way to the hotel.
leave a jacket and suitcase with the concierge because your room isn't ready, and come back to find the jacket badly marked.
go down to breakfast in the morning and find a similar half-hour line at the hotel's own restaurant.
now find a cleaning charge for the jacket on your hotel bill.
finish work, and discover that the taxi line is 2 hours long in the early evening, though your flight leaves in just over two hours.
and so it goes.
There is a big difference between what Uber and Lyft offer and what a free-for-all unregulated taxii industry of the past offers.
On one hand, you have some large companies that can be held to account for wrong doing. You CAN allow Uber and Lyft to operate, AND regulate them, you know - it is not an "either-or" situation.
On the other hand without any Uber or Lyft or regulation, you would have thousands of independent drivers with no ability to oversee them and no ability to hold them accountable in the aggregate, since there is no aggregate.
By choosing to not allow Uber and Lyft to operate AT ALL, even under regulation, the government is artificially choosing a winner and propping up a monopoly.
The part of Trop that passes north of the airport is mostly empty near the street, with the few businesses in there set well back. They could bring the monorail down to ground level (or even dig a trench for it) to keep from obstructing air traffic. Instead of bringing it down alongside Paradise Road, they could avoid that disruption by turning south sooner and going through the economy-parking lot and by Terminal 2 (which AFAICT is no longer in use) to bring it to Terminal 1. There should already be something in place to move people between Terminals 1 & 3, but if they want to extend the monorail out to Terminal 3 (I've only flown through it once), that'd be a bonus.
20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
So, a Stanford educated computer scientist notes that the Nevada Taxicab Authority is corrupt in a gambling town created by mobsters? We didn't realize this until Uber was asked to leave? I've been to Vegas many times for both business and, um, pleasure (but not the kind you're thinking of). I remember that the taxis and shuttles were cash only and a mob operation based on the prices. My advice is to skip Las Vegas. Convince people that Las Vegas is not the place to go on vacation unless your name is Vinny and you work for a privately held "family" business (if you know what I mean). If you have to go to Vegas, then rent a car.
May the force be with you.
When I was traveling to Vegas instead of living here. Thrify "blue chip" was a very good deal. Open to 1AM, walk up to the desk in the garage, sign about 3 pieces of paper and walk 3 or four parking spots away, climb in and drive away. Worked great get off work at 5 drive/park to airport get on 7PM flight ORD to LAS arrive 23:30 ish take the rental bus pay $20 from rental to my house in Henderson ($35 from the airport taxistand) ,
...in the taxi market, which is why we have regulation today.
And we've already seen how psychopathically Uber is willing to behave, for the avoidance of doubt.
Yeah, the first hit's always cheap. Do Americans have history classes in school?
This.
If the Americans have forgotten their history, just go to South East Asia.
The highly regulated system in Bangkok and Singapore are cheap, plentiful and easy to use. The unregulated systems in places like Phuket are expensive and run by cartels.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Yes, and it ISN'T SOCCER any more.
Isn't this simple? You have two people. A driver. A passenger. The driver wants to drive the passenger from A to B and the passenenger wants to pay the driver. What moral right does anyone have to prevent them from entering into their own contract? The state claims safety yet the state doesn't seem to care if I climb mountains which is statistically far riskier. We live in a bizzar kafkaesque disytopia when people are regulating just for the sake of having regulation jobs. Even if Uber is not safe isn't it up to the consumer to decide how much risk to take?
I think you'll find these kind of incidents also happen with regular cab drivers. Newspaper articles are often not a good source of data for these kind of stats.
I get your comparison of Uber to gypsy cabs, but they were not really a problem for most people -- so much as for medallion owners.
For a really long time (the 70s thru the 90s), they were about the only way to get a ride to Harlem, South Bronx and other locales cabbies were afraid of. Car services the exception.
The most frequent kind of gypsy cab I notice are towncar and limo drivers cruising for illegal street pickups during nightclub hours in Manhattan.
I only use Flywheel, the equivalent app for taxis. I can get a cab at 3:00 AM in the middle of nowhere in minutes. Much preferred, plus I support the idea of a livable wage for people that drive 12 hours a day, instead of Uber's race to the bottommost wage.
I have friends that drive for Uber and Lyft - occasionally I'll hire them, for airport runs typically. Taxis for everything else, even though they're more expensive.
O lord, bless this thy holy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thine enemies to tiny bits, in thy mercy.
The important part is surely what do the regulations do to prevent negative experiences.
Indeed, regulations must be constantly examined to make sure they're still relevant and targeted at a real problem and are doing so in a cost-effective manner. By 'cost-effective' in this case I don't mean just direct costs - costs can be direct, indirect, imposed, compliance, etc... Even non-monetary in the form of violations to concepts like freedom and privacy.
I don't read AC A human right
True. But OTOH, Soccer is properly called "football" and rugby is "rugby football" ;)
Let's expand the medallion limited business model. Food stores, restaurants, clothing stores, plumbers, electricians, programers. Union hiring halls can do the same thing for common laborers. Consumers will be assured that everything they can afford to buy will be the best.
I rather suspect that this may be true.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
Well, libertarians knew about it.
Oh. I guess that kinda proves your point.
There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
"soccer" is properly called association football
and so rugger and soccer