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Uber Banned In Delhi After Taxi Driver Accused of Rape

RockDoctor writes BBC News is reporting that a 26-year old Indian woman is alleging rape against a driver for the embattled Uber transport-managing company. In a post on the Uber blog, one "Saad Ahmed" implicitly admits that the driver was a Uber driver, that the lift was arranged through Uber's service, and that the full range of Uber's safety mechanisms had been applied to his employment, and by implication, that Uber accepts some culpability for putting this (alleged) rapist into contact with his (alleged) victim. "Our initial investigations have revealed shortcomings of the private cab company which didn't have GPS installed in its cabs and the staff wasn't verified," Delhi Special Commissioner Deepak Mishra said. But Uber says safety was paramount, and added it had GPS traces of all journeys. "We work with licensed driver-partners to provide a safe transportation option, with layers of safeguards such as driver and vehicle information, and ETA-sharing [estimated time of arrival] to ensure there is accountability and traceability of all trips that occur on the Uber platform," its statement added.

180 comments

  1. Sadly,... by BlackPignouf · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Sadly, it appears that rapes are so common in India that they should also ban public parks, buses, trains and Starbucks.

    1. Re:Sadly,... by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sadly, it appears that rapes are so common in India that they should also ban public parks, buses, trains and Starbucks.

      While that may be true, I think that the point being made in this case is that Uber said one thing about their cars/drivers safety, yet post-indicdent it seems that they may not have told the truth.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    2. Re:Sadly,... by gweihir · · Score: 0, Troll

      Also maybe teaching the women to fight back might help, and neatly do something about overpopulation as well as male fertility would be reduced.

      No, I am not victim-blaming. But just sitting there and being a victim does nothing to solve the problem and the law seems to be completely useless in that regard as well (as usual).

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Sadly,... by StripedCow · · Score: 1

      yet post-indicdent it seems that they may not have told the truth

      Could you then please sketch what an Uber advertorial should like like?

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    4. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, I am not victim-blaming. But just sitting there and being a victim does nothing to solve the problem and the law seems to be completely useless in that regard as well (as usual).

      In other words, you're victim blaming, and have no clue what you're talking about because you've never been to India and are therefore oversimplifying the problem like a fucking idiot?

    5. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Could you then please sketch what an Uber advertorial should like like?

      We aim to disrupt public transportation by skirting the law, through predatory price increases when the services are most needed, use drivers that are not bonded or properly insured, and if you dare to say anything we don't like, we'll threaten to harass you and your families.

    6. Re:Sadly,... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      >No, I am not victim-blaming.

      Except when you are.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re:Sadly,... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You are the fucking problem. Where in the goddam TFA did it say the woman simply went limp and let the man have his way?

      Fuck you.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    8. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you are an idiot. learning to fight back and defend yourself is not victim blaming. we live in a world where you could get attacked. it only makes sense that people learn to defend themselves asshole. had this victim known how to protect herself, she could have cut off his dick. adapt or die.

    9. Re:Sadly,... by smallfries · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hello and welcome to Uber.

      We are going to pretend that we offer you a service like a taxi, you know - licensed and regulated so that we manage to keep whack jobs out of the driving seat and you can feel a measure of safety in your journey.

      But instead, for half the price we are going to send you some completely random fucker that we have no real record of. He could be anyone, and probably is. So basically you are hitchhiking with all of the associated risks, but you are paying us for the privilege.

      Yay for Uber. Please feel free to call* and ask questions if you survive your trip.

      * actually not really, this would push up costs. But you know, it's the thought that counts.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    10. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fuck you too nasal drip.

    11. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Yes it is. A woman or anyone for that matter should never need to learn to defend themselves because they should never be attacked in the first place. That's the problem that needs solving. Teaching self defense is just putting a bandaid on severed limb. It doesn't nothing to solve the underlying problem.

    12. Re:Sadly,... by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Because it's not like anyone's ever been raped by a 'licensed and regulated' taxi driver.

      Being a convicted rapist doesn't even seem to be an impediment to getting a taxi license in the UK:

      http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-eng...

    13. Re: Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's the patriarchal Indian society that gives man the power over woman. The woman has to obey to the man no matter what. They still do the arrange marriage over there too.

    14. Re:Sadly,... by popo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Having spent many years living in Asia, I can tell you confidently how to solve *much* of the rape problem in India: Legalize and institutionalize prostitution.

      Unlike every nation in Asia, India has a tiny sex-trade per capita. Smaller even than in the United States. Couple poverty with truly intense social mores, highly limited pre-marital sex and a defacto caste system (despite the propaganda) and you have a recipe for pent up male sexuality. The standard modern response mechanism is to demonize said sexuality and hope to preach morality and respect to a seething mass of adolescent male anger and hormones. To say this policy of condemnation has failed is an understatement. When policy fails, pursuing more of it is insane.

      Prostitution is a rational free-market solution which carries many additional economic benefits besides reduced sexual violence.

      Now cue scores of sexist, white-knight "do-gooders" who will say things like "sex-work endangers women" and other sexist statements that treat women like children. (If you're going to insist, show me the stats please, and then cross reference against miners, fishermen, industrial labor, law enforcement and the military).

      Male sexuality is male sexuality. And in societies where it is deprived to hundreds of millions of men (for decades) until said men prove themselves worthy of marriage is an exercise in social disaster.

      --
      ------ The best brain training is now totally free : )
    15. Re:Sadly,... by RicoX9 · · Score: 1, Informative

      While I agree 100% with your statement, there is also the rising problem of false reporting. Now that rape is getting some attention, women in desperate situations are using it as a tool to blackmail men. What it comes down to is that people suck, no matter their gender, nationality, or religion.

    16. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      i don't know what planet you live on but not learning to defend yourself is just stupid. we are violent animals killing one another every day. adapt or die you stupid monkey.

    17. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evolve or go extinct.

    18. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Per capita, there are 20 times more rape cases in the US than in India. But rapes sell newspapers so thats all you see on the front pages.

    19. Re:Sadly,... by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Actually, it looks like Uber's accountability is so high you can't claim to not have been with the victim at the time of the alleged crime, and therefor you can't get away with this shit.

    20. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, because every time a woman cries "rape!" it's true.

    21. Re:Sadly,... by Tanuki64 · · Score: 2

      Or she just did not have the money to pay the fare. But of course, this is misogynistic. Something like that NEVER happens.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

    22. Re:Sadly,... by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      just sitting there and being a victim

      That was the part where you are just victim-blaming. You have no idea what happened. For all you know, she was an expert in Krav Maga, which frankly, wouldn't be worth shit if she was a 110 lbs and trapped in a taxi. In any case, it seems they were looking for any excuse at all to ban Uber... considering this *MIGHT* have happened *ONCE* (hasn't even been a trial or arrest), but is still used as justification for an outright ban.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    23. Re:Sadly,... by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Well the I guess we do nothing, since it is impossible to prevent all attacks. Some humans are violent assholes after all. And doing things which only reduce the magnitude of the problem is apparently just a bandaid and hence not worth doing.

      Well I guess we could kill all the humans, but that would be attacking said victim and hence not actually solve the problem.

    24. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So why don't do the same thing with police officers? Make an app so that people can sign up and when a real police is sick, some random guy gets a gun and a badge for a day. If he makes a mistake, it's not the end of the world, because real police officers also make mistakes. Right?
      Hell, we could do it with surgeons too...

    25. Re:Sadly,... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      Don't know anything about the frequency of various abuses, but it has always been common for Vinnie's brother Tony to do the nightshift or whatever in NY. Regulated? Sort of, but fool proof, safe and above reproach...not so much. The names have been changed to protect the innocent. Does the picture of the cabbie on the license match the face of the driver? Often not.

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    26. Re:Sadly,... by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

      I like this idea. What could possibly go wrong?

      --
      http://www.acetonestudio.com
    27. Re:Sadly,... by DrXym · · Score: 1

      Because it's not like anyone's ever been raped by a 'licensed and regulated' taxi driver.

      Well that's genius logic. Your link demonstrates the need for an even higher standard for background checks and a zero tolerance for drivers with convictions that could be a threat to the public. In this instance it would suggest that the decision should not have been entrusted to the council in the first place - they should be responsible for the paperwork but the police should ensure the driver is of good character and their say should be final.

      It also does NOT suggest that we should loosen or do away background checks altogether so that any psychopath, even those with previous convictions, can lure women into their vehicles.

      I'd add that if you were to search for high number of court cases involving unlicensed cab drivers (i.e. those illegally operating taxis), that it demonstrates why checks are so necessary in the first place. Not just on the driver, but also the state of the vehicle they are driving in to ensure it is roadworthy and insured.

      Further, I'd note that there is no reason that Uber cannot operate within the law. They can require their drivers hold a taxi licence and be in good standing. They just choose not to because interferes with their profits.

    28. Re:Sadly,... by tompaulco · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Per capita, there are 20 times more rape cases in the US than in India. But rapes sell newspapers so thats all you see on the front pages.

      You have to take the law into consideration when looking at those statistics. In the U.S., the law allows for rape charges if a wife is forced to have sex with her husband. In India, the law can only be invoked if the husband and wife are separated.
      Also, there are social reasons for underreporting of rape in India. If you file rape charges, then you are considered to have been raped. This can be cause for a future arranged marriage to be terminated, a marriage to be terminated and for the woman to be shunned.
      It used to be similar in the U.S., but woman were empowered and encouraged to speak out. There are still a lot of rapes not reported, but there are also a lot of false reports as well.
      In all, it is difficult to compare rates of a lawbreaking in countries where the law differs as do also the social implications of reporting the charge,

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    29. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Could you then please sketch what an Uber advertorial should like like?

      Are you unable to figure this out yourself? An adult shouldn't need hand-holding like you clearly do.

    30. Re: Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I watched a documentary on the caste system and India and it showed that in communities with traditional morals, if a woman's husband dies, the woman has two choices: die/kill herself, or live the rest of her life as a nun.

      It was showing how there was a foundation setup trying to help these women get jobs and have other options but yeah there is so much backwardness still prevalent there.

    31. Re:Sadly,... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      wrong, U.S. has better reporting and higher standards of defining rape than India. Women are shamed and punished and shunned for life when raped in India

    32. Re:Sadly,... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      So why don't do the same thing with police officers? Make an app so that people can sign up and when a real police is sick, some random guy gets a gun and a badge for a day. If he makes a mistake, it's not the end of the world, because real police officers also make mistakes. Right?

      You might have missed the last year or so of police reporting in the US but we're already there. Just sampling from last week:

      http://www.nydailynews.com/new...

      http://reason.com/blog/2014/12...

      I could go on...

    33. Re: Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 funny

    34. Re:Sadly,... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

      Yeah, because the "regulated" taxi industry *never* has these problems. Oh, wait.

      http://www.ndtv.com/article/ci...

      http://timesofindia.indiatimes...

      http://indiatoday.intoday.in/s...

      Note the last one there is a gang rape.

      The problem, as always, is that people like you think that "regulation" of the taxi industry has anything to do with the stuff that the regulators claim it's about. Look up "regulatory capture" when you have a spare hour or so. I'll warn you - your world view is about to get a dramatic overhaul.

    35. Re:Sadly,... by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Sounds good. They'd have to try hard to kill more innocent people than cops do... the last stats I saw on the subject showed cops were about twice as likely to kill an innocent bystander than someone on the scene with a gun was.

    36. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The law in India? Oh you mean like 498a? Which has been used *many* times by a wife to falsely accuse her husband or his family of trying to demand dowry from her which led to the husband *and his family* to all be arrested and jailed immediately with zero evidence needed. *Just* the accusation. It was only in June of this year that India's Supreme Court put a stop the mandatory arrest policy.

      If you think for a second that the wives in India don't have a *very* strong weapon to use if they get raped (let alone for anything else including just petty revenge) then you're very mistaken.

      No, it's the wives in India that hold legal power in the marriages. Not the husbands.

      (http://www.498a.org/ for more info about it)

    37. Re:Sadly,... by 0123456 · · Score: 2

      'Our system utterly failed. Therefore we need more of it.'

      A private company who intentionally allowed a convicted rapist to work for them in a situation where they could rape people would be sued into oblivion. When the government does it, the Mayor just gets to resign.

    38. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, because every time a man says, "She said 'Yes' ", it' true. FTFY

      Dope.

      Not all men are rapists.

      Not all women claiming rape are liars.

    39. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And soldiers in a war zone are even more likely to kill an innocent bystander than cops!
      Privatize soldiers!

    40. Re:Sadly,... by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      Women are shamed and punished and shunned for life when raped in India

      If that's true, they are probably a lot more cautious. Impossible to be raped if you aren't within striking distance of the penis.

    41. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like someone is upset that Rapistan is in the spotlight....

    42. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woosh. GP is saying that even though real police officers make mistakes (or intentional transgressions), a random, untrained, unvetted person with a badge and a gun would easily make ten times the number of mistakes. The same applies to cab drivers.

    43. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have separate cars on subways for women only ...

    44. Re:Sadly,... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      reality such as busload of jeering spectators while women being gang raped says your notion of reality may be flawed

    45. Re:Sadly,... by Wookact · · Score: 1

      The already did, see Blackwater (Xe or whatever they are calling themselves now).

    46. Re:Sadly,... by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Woosh. GP is saying that even though real police officers make mistakes (or intentional transgressions), a random, untrained, unvetted person with a badge and a gun would easily make ten times the number of mistakes. The same applies to cab drivers.

      I disagree. Cops have been trained to be violent, rights-abusing assholes who act without fear of repercussion. Cabbies have been trained to be terrible, aggressive, drivers.
      A random person in either position would not be as cavalier. You may have fewer arrests and you may not make it to the airport on time, but society as a whole would be much better off.

    47. Re:Sadly,... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      So why don't do the same thing with police officers? Make an app so that people can sign up and when a real police is sick, some random guy gets a gun and a badge for a day. If he makes a mistake, it's not the end of the world, because real police officers also make mistakes. Right?

      Right. He's four times less likely to shoot an innocent, and he's no more likely to commit a crime.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    48. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPS traces, can be obtained through other means other than just GPS mounted in vehicle. You can trace the GPS of a cell phone for example. If the driver Turned off his phone for this trip then that could cause an issue.

    49. Re: Sadly,... by Hardhead_7 · · Score: 2

      Uber is "ride sharing" the same way hiring a carpenter is "hammer sharing."

    50. Re:Sadly,... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Insightful

      predatory price increases when the services are most needed

      This is an unfair critisism. When demand is highest (rush hour on a rainy day) the prices should go up. The higher price will give an incentive for more drivers to provide the service. That is the way free markets work. The alternative is to have shortages or rationing when demand is high, and a glut when demand is low (which is how taxis work).

      No economic system is going to give you everything you want, at the price you want to pay, but a free market is going to come closest.

    51. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not. Victim blaming is perpetuating the just world fallacy; person A was victimized, therefore, they must be a bad person or otherwise must have done something to deserve it. It's one thing to argue against people who claim something like 'it's person A's fault, they should have known how to defend themselves,' quite another to demonize someone for advocating people learning how to take care of themselves (an argument which is, contrary to what sheltered white SFers may tell you, not mutually exclusive to wanting the attacks themselves to stop.)

    52. Re:Sadly,... by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

      I totally agree with you for the reasons why rape is so common in India.
      But there's no need to be a white-knight do-gooder to realize that (at least in Europe), many prostitutes aren't so happy about their job, and that many are there because of the mafia.
      I never tried prostitution for this reason. Give me a "fair-trade pussy" label and I'd be happy to try it.

    53. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not really a direct comparison.

      Private citizens who witness a crime have the option of not interfering, and as such are more likely to take no action if the situation is ambiguous. The cop has to take action and that means they'll take the wrong action more frequently even if the percentage of wrong actions taken is lower.

      Put simply 1% of 100,000 is a bigger number than 50% of 10.

    54. Re:Sadly,... by Cederic · · Score: 1

      BlackPignouf, you're a fair-trade pussy.

      But I'm with you on not wanting to support the sex trade, as too many participants would prefer other means of earning a living.

    55. Re:Sadly,... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      No, I am not. But you simplistic world-view apparently cannot cope with that.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    56. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      must have missed the proof that the claimed victim is in fact one

    57. Re:Sadly,... by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      Markets are good; free markets are bad. Free markets have never provided any consumer with any benefit that couldn't be enjoyed tenfold with regulation. Predatory pricing is a great example of this. Wow, is it possible to have an economy without price gouging AND without scarcity? Maybe not in your textbook, but look around, we have it today.

    58. Re:Sadly,... by AqD · · Score: 1

      They should ban penis.

    59. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is that you, Oscar Wilde?

    60. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Having spent many years living in Asia, I can tell you confidently how to solve *much* of the rape problem in India: Legalize and institutionalize prostitution.

      Uber could provide that as they specialise in unlicensed rideshare schemes.

    61. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sadly, it appears that slashdot editors totally messed up yet another headline....

      remove the word "taxi" from it already, just because the bbc also screwed it up, doesn't mean /. has to, too. this is the site for nerds, we're supposed to know the difference between "uber" and "taxi". the presence of uber earlier in the headline makes it clear what type of 'driver' it was.. calling uber drivers 'taxi drivers' is an insult to actual taxi drivers and cabbies around the world.

    62. Re:Sadly,... by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 2

      Woosh. GP is saying that even though real police officers make mistakes (or intentional transgressions), a random, untrained, unvetted person with a badge and a gun would easily make ten times the number of mistakes. The same applies to cab drivers.

      Yes, and I disagree. Police work attracts a certain kind of person - the kind who needs to control others. Bringing in random people would actually make for a *better* police force.

    63. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Rape isn't even about the sex, it's the thrill some people get from abusing a dominant position. I say they need better mental healthcare, as does the USA for that matter.

    64. Re: Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Did you know that most westerners stink like sour milk to asians?

    65. Re:Sadly,... by smallfries · · Score: 1

      Yeah, because the "regulated" taxi industry *never* has these problems.

      Is that the only kind of distinction that exists - the world is purely binary? Or could be that a regulated industry has fewer of these problems. Is that not better to a lesser extent?

      The problem, as always, is that people like you think that "regulation"

      So what is a person like me then? Is that something that you are capable of understanding based on a jokey response to a request for a sketch. Wow, your deductive power of reasoning must put the great Sherlock Holmes to shame. Either that or you over-generalise so freely that you are not even aware when you do it. You know, like an idiot.

      Perhaps you should spend an hour or two reading about cognitive dissonance, and try to spot the analogy to the point that you were trying to make with Regulatory Capture. I'll warn you - your world view is about to get a dramatic overhaul.

      --
      Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
    66. Re:Sadly,... by martas · · Score: 2

      This is a complete myth invented by proponents of some surrealistic, twisted form of feminism. It has no basis in verifiable facts.

    67. Re:Sadly,... by mrclmn · · Score: 0

      If this were the case, I suspect we might actually get improved policing.

    68. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sex work should be legal, and the reasons for outlawing it are more-often-than-not based on puritan nonsense. but at this point in time, i cannot help but think that for some time (generation or so?), unfortunately, legalizing sex trades in india would likely make the problems worse. also, while recognizing that collectively there is a predisposition of sorts for men to be sexually aggressive, we must not ever excuse the individuals that trespass against others in that respect. no easy solutions, i suppose. sigh...

    69. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      looked at that a bit, and all i can say is that india has some serious issues to work out...

    70. Re:Sadly,... by easyTree · · Score: 2

      Non-police don't have the training and experience required to allow them to perform the duties of a real police officer - there's substantial risk of donut overdose.

    71. Re:Sadly,... by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      I'll throw my mod points away for this response. Because cops and surgeons require special training, whereas you average taxi driver is worse overall at his job than the average punter on the street. It may be different in your town, but here the service is absolute shit, drivers are smelly, don't speak English and don't know where they're going. They fail to show up half the time, refuse to take fares unless it's worth it for them, and are generally the worst service you're ever likely to experience on a day to day basis. Credit card scams and sexual assault are also common, so given the choice, I'll take my chances with the regular man on the street.

    72. Re:Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree. I used to be an angry young man, but now I'm old enough to earn an income that allows me to visit prostitutes on a weekly basis, I'm as happy, content, and productive as I've ever been. Sex is medicine for a lot of men, it's a shame society can't recognise this.

    73. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      So basically you are hitchhiking with all of the associated risks

      Hitchhiking isn't that dangerous. I do it routinely and haven't had a problem since I was 14 (and I scared that guy off before continuing on my way).

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    74. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      A random person in either position would not be as cavalier.

      How long before the Joe Random Person who starts working as a taxi driver has absorbed the culture of the job and become the arsehole that other posters describe as their typical taxi driver?

      I must admit, the only aspect of their descriptions that I recognise is the poor to non-existent English. But even that only really applies to the taxi drivers in Benin and Gabon, where English isn't actually an official language and they have to put up with my dodgy French. The Afghan and Polish taxi drivers here often speak more comprehensible English than the native-born and bred Scottish taxi drivers, but that's because they (the Afghans and Poles) have been taught to speak English, not learned it from their parents.

      So, what were the benefits of Uber again? I'm still not seeing any reason to vote in favour of their service being allowed in my country.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    75. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      it has always been common for Vinnie's brother Tony to do the nightshift or whatever in NY. [...] Does the picture of the cabbie on the license match the face of the driver? Often not.

      So, when you realise this, you call the police and instruct the driver to stop the cab. then wait with the cab to make your case to the police officer and fill out the paperwork for pursuing the case?

      Enforcement of regulation does actually require the assistance of the population (that means you). It can't all be done by the police's random flagging down of passing taxis for document checks. Which does, of course, happen ; and is legal - it's a freedom that goes away with getting your taxi license. And that also required the police to do it without getting an ear-full of abuse from the fare.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    76. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      In any case, it seems they were looking for any excuse at all to ban Uber.

      OP here.

      As I wrote in the ORIGINAL submission (which, contrary to Slash-meme, samzenpus has substantially edited), I'm decidedly dubious about Uber in particular and less than convinced of the need for the entire concept in general. The second paragraph of my submission read :

      Going on previous Uber performance, can we expect the driver to be working again tonight, and the spokesman making such inconvenient admissions to be unemployed? That would sound about the level of PR skill of Uber's senior management â" as currently constituted. They've managed to turn me from a potential supporter to someone who will be voting against Uber being allowed into my city or country."

      There do certainly seem to be some complete arseholes in the senior management team of Uber, and I do not see any benefit to allowing companies run by such shit-heads into the taxi service in my country in general, and into my city in particular. I don't make comment about whether other countries may benefit from them - but here the regulations are reasonable, and the enforcement is reasonably effective, so what benefit Uber/ Lyft/ Internet-taxi-ordering-company would actually bring is pretty dubious. Yes, I do get pissed off when a plane lands at the airport, disgorging me and 250 other people out the front doors a few minutes later, and there are only 10 taxis. But that is the problem of 250 people wanting a taxi immediately ; if I wait 20 minutes (a coffee and a cigarette), there are still 10 taxis (a different 10) but only 3 people in the queue so I can then get a taxi home. Or I could just take the bus (every half hour into town), which gets me home just as well and just as comfortably as any taxi.

      The investors who own Uber are going to have to seriously ask themselves if the arseholes in charge of the company are actually damaging the company which they (the investors) own.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    77. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Even Uber, bunch of shit-heads though they have for management, haven't made that claim. But then again, you're a Torygraph reader, so I don't expect too much from you.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    78. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      U.S. has better reporting and higher standards of defining rape than India.

      What is your metric of comparison for definitions of rape that allows you to say, unambiguously, that one definition is "better" than another? "Different" is, I'm sure true (identity is easy to check for ; one comma moved and you're no longer identical), but you claim to have a metric that allows you to determine if one rape definition is "better" than another ; therefore you have a scoring or ranking system more complex than simply "identical" versus "not identical". What is your ranking system?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    79. Re:Sadly,... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Rape can be performed with any penis-like object. Dildo ; screwdriver ; beer bottle ; broken beer bottle.

      The problem of rape is more fundamental then possession of a penis. Indeed, there have been cases of people without a penis committing rape against people with a penis.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    80. Re:Sadly,... by Tanuki64 · · Score: 1

      Oh, you don't like it? Sure, one is not even allowed to think this. Women NEVER lie about rape. And if they do...nooo, they still don't. So better shut up.
      Don't like the The Telegraph? There are other examples.... oops... Not a singular case? Must be a conspiracy of the patriarchy.

      http://jonathanturley.org/2009...

      At least the police acted correctly . But the stupid journalists definitely need another brainwash.

    81. Re:Sadly,... by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      Now cue scores of sexist, white-knight "do-gooders" who will say things like "sex-work endangers women" and other sexist statements that treat women like children.

      Building off your statement, which I agree with: (American) Football purposefully endangers men, having them slam against each other at higher-than-normal velocities, and yet, despite many recent medical revelations, there's no large trumpeting call to shut the whole thing down.

      The only difference between football and prostitution is how they're using their bodies for entertainment. The first is done for physical competition for a public audience; the second is physical excitement amongst private participants. The only real problem with the difference, as far as I can tell, is America's very reserved view of sex.

      In addition, legalization has brought down the dangerous aspects of many things. Ending alcohol prohibition severely hurt the mafia. The slow legalization/decriminalization of marijuana appears to be having the same affect on many gangs. Legalizing abortion made a botched or fatal operation extremely rare (AFAIK). If there's a case where legalizing something made it more dangerous, I'm not aware of it. While I don't have data to back me up, I can only assume that legalizing prostitution would be good for prostitutes:
      1) Keeping it illegal keeps it in the shadows, so it's hard to see things that are actually bad happening (abuse, theft)
      2) Making it legal allows for regulation, so that prostitutes have to receive regular checks for STDs and some health department can make sure the places of business are sanitary and the prostitutes not abused
      3) Making it legal might help lower the spread of various STDs; part of it is requiring regular checks of prostitutes, and larger brothels might be able to get scientists to develop a quick and fairly reliable test for various STDs that clients have to use before being allowed in

      Also, while not as popular, there are male prostitutes so this helps them as well.

  2. Zero "quality control" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That about sums it up..

  3. That's that sorted, no more rapes in India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's sorted now, no more rapes in India.

  4. rename it by slashmydots · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

    1. Re:rename it by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

      Me, why I'd want to get a ride from someone who has neither the proper drivers license nor insurance to be doing this has always been a mystery.

      Oooh, but it's an app, so it must be good, right?

      Uber likes to try to frame this discussion of how it's trying to compete with the big bad taxi lobby. What they are actually doing is running unlicensed cabs operated by people who aren't very accountable, and if something goes wrong they'll claim "well, we just dispatch, we're not a cab company".

      Sorry, but no.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:rename it by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      I mentioned that once before, and was roundly shouted down by the all regulations are bad crowd.

      Some times there are very good reasons for them, no matter what Rand Paul tells us.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word you are looking for is "über". I may sound the same to you but the phun does not translate into German.

      Ohh fuck you Slashdot. Almost 2015 and all you can handle is ASCII. ÃoeÃ-ÃÃY

    4. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It means "above" and is sometimes used to mean "better than" or "the best" idiomatically. Ubermensch would be one such usage, But the word means "above".

    5. Re:rename it by gnasher719 · · Score: 2

      Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      It doesn't. Uber means "I am stupid fucker who tries to impress by using fake German but I'm too stupid to add an umlaut where it belongs". Well, the correct spelling is Ãoeber, but it's anyone guess what slashdot will make of it.

    6. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The word you are looking for is "über". I may sound the same to you but the phun does not translate into German.

      Ohh fuck you Slashdot. Almost 2015 and all you can handle is ASCII. ÃoeÃ-ÃÃY

      You just provided the main reason why they decided not to spell the name in correct German. I'm quite sure no company wants to name itself "über". Maybe random user accounts would do that, but not companies interested in profit.

      Having said that, I have a hard time saying Uber. It often ends up as it is supposed to be spelled in German. The name sucks btw. It sounds sort of like when Japanese companies names something in English like "Super great garden shovel" or "the very best tea spoon". It's utterly ridicules to those who knows the language.

    7. Re:rename it by slashdice · · Score: 0

      well, our outsourced indian slashdice developers are too busy raping and working on slashdot beta to implement that feature. Mike Durney, our CEO, actually went over there to discuss unicode support but, well, he was raped, too. So bringing it up with him is a bit of a sore spot (no pun intended!)

      --
      Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
    8. Re:rename it by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Uber or Ueber or more correctly with two dots on the U does not mean 'super' but 'above' ... like in 'above the law' or 'a bird is flying above the lake'.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Works fine for me: Über.

      If your charset isn't UTF, then quit yer bitchin'.

    10. Re:rename it by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Basically, they want to be like Wal-mart. Offer an inferior product at half price. But then the consumer is getting pissed off when the product doesn't perform as well as the full priced product.
      In this case, though, this is more like if Wal-mart wanted to sell a radio at half price that uses public frequency bands but doesn't meet the FCC regulations. Which Wal-mart would not be allowed to do.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    11. Re:rename it by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Uber. It means super in German. That's misleading. It should be called Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      It doesn't. Uber means "I am stupid fucker who tries to impress by using fake German but I'm too stupid to add an umlaut where it belongs". Well, the correct spelling is Ãoeber, but it's anyone guess what slashdot will make of it.

      Kind of like the guys who get Chinese tattoos and it turns out actually translates to "Small Lo Mein with Egg Roll"?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    12. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and what does super mean?

      word-forming element meaning "above, over, beyond," from Latin super-, from adverb and preposition super "above, over, on the top (of), beyond, besides, in addition to,"

      oh, wait...

    13. Re:rename it by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      Nobody copy the name Ayquarterber. I'm naming my next company after it.

    14. Re:rename it by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      Yes, like superscript in America. As in above the script. Super has two definitions and that's one of them so it's still the most accurate and similar Latin rooted word and the most appropriate translation.

    15. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Rides with Strangers Without Background Checks.

      How much security do background checks actually provide? Most businesses don't even bother with them. And do normal taxis even do that? You have a point that they barely know the people working for them and that's not a good thing, but nobody is forcing anybody to use Uber, either. I certainly never have.

    16. Re:rename it by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Basically, they want to be like Wal-mart. Offer an inferior product at half price. But then the consumer is getting pissed off when the product doesn't perform as well as the full priced product.

      Depends on the market. They want to do what it takes to get into a city. Here in Seattle, they're offering a superior service for more money. Too many people are pissed at regular taxis being dirty, never showing up, or late. Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

    17. Re:rename it by mjwx · · Score: 1

      So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

      And a price tag... Which really makes it like a taxi with a driver who has a criminal record.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    18. Re:rename it by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      Uber's only flaw is that they are trying to make money out of it. If there was an app that connected hitchhikers with hitchhikees, and the relative safeguards of GPS, tracking and a reputation system, and the fee was a "suggested donation" (this gets around the professional driver legality which is killing their model), then I'd be a regular user. If you turn off Fox News, you'll learn the world isn't that bad a place, and most of the time, most people are not out to murder you.

    19. Re:rename it by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      The flaw in this argument is that taxi drivers (in my country at least) are also strangers with no background checks. At least with Uber I'm more likely to get a normal person and a normal car than some no-English speaking smelly immigrant in a beat up old car that's done a million kms. I'm a big fan of regulations, but the taxi industry is one case which needs major reform.

    20. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is actually the exact same word as 'over' in English. For example, the German 'über' (with Slashdot mangling, I suppose) became 'öfver' in Swedish, which after a spelling reform some hundred years ago is 'över', and the relation to 'over' is not difficult to see.

    21. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      So, hitch-hiking but with cooler technology?

      When I go hitch-hiking, I do my own security checks before getting into the punters car. As often as possible, I do it before the punter even approaches his (or her) car. (But then again, my hitching thumb is probably due for it's quarter-million km oil change, so what would I know?

      Oooh, but it's an app, so it must be good, right?

      Ohhh, sarcasm! could it possibly be that just like me, you are not convinced by the "new + shiny = good" argument that seems to pass without discussion around here. I'm sure the "glitterati" will have us shot at dawn some time soon ; been nice knowing of your existence.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    22. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

      So, since higher fares are available through Uber, the higher-standards (self-imposed) licensed taxi drivers are moonlighting to Uber and buying out their own tokens (or whatever the system is locally)?

      It's a serious question. OP here, and locally we're debating whether to allow Uber into our country and city (an alternative would be to let one of Uber's competitors in, if they actually agree to improve adherence to our existing taxi standards system). One would hope that the theory of the "free market" would prevail, but since the theory of the "free market" originated just down the road (Smith was from Auld Reekie), we've always been decidedly sceptical of it (weird folk in Edinburgh. You'll have had your tea then?)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    23. Re:rename it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is this "insightful"? I've actually insight regarding Uber: they're constantly rejecting those who drive on platforms like Lyft, because they pay out the nose for comprehensive background checks. Like, the kind where missing info means the agency sending someone to hoof it wherever there might be paper documentation and charging the client (in this case, Uber) for that extra.

      If you want to know yourself, just apply to license their app (read the actual agreement) and as long as you don't fail the State part, they'll then move on to the rest of a comprehensive), then you'll also have any results sent to you. This sounds like cabi nonsense--and I even have plenty to complain about regarding Uber, but almost none of it what is gossiped about in the media.

      More evidence that the average consumer of media is just easy prey for nonsense and propaganda.

    24. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      and the fee was a "suggested donation" (this gets around the professional driver legality which is killing their model), then I'd be a regular user

      In this country, accepting payment for driving is "driving for hire". Regular vehicle insurance is for driving for "social, domestic and pleasure" purposes ("SDP"), which includes getting to and from work, but does not generally include driving as an essential part of your employment. So, you're OK for commuting to and from work ; you're OK for driving to the restaurant for lunch ; you're probably OK if you have to drive to the offices on the other side of town for a meeting. But if you drive around 3 clients/ suppliers collecting and dropping off materials for 3 hours a day, you're probably driving outside the terms of your insurance policy. Which means that you're driving un-insured.

      Obviously, there are issues of verification. But the more driving you do, the more likely you are to fall outside the "SDP" categories.

      There are a lot of companies who do things like hiring housewives to spend the time between school runs doing parcel deliveries in their cars. And there have been several cases of such employees (technically they're self-employed sole traders, individually responsible for their own companies following the laws) having a crash with a pile of parcels in the car, and this being spotted by an investigating police officer.
      "Are you delivering these parcels for 'YouDeliveryCo', Mrs Bloggs?"
      "Errr, yes. Is there a problem, Constable?"
      "Can I check your insurance details, please?[Few minutes phone calls]I'm arresting you for driving without insurance. Your insurance doesn't cover you for driving for hire."

      If your proposed "suggested donation" system started to happen, then you'd see exactly the same situation happening again.

      Yes, there is an implication of the above. If you share a car with a buddy for the weekend to go walking/ cycling/ away/ whatever, you're skating on the edges of "driving for hire". And it's true : you are skating the edges. If it is something you do every so often, then it's just not going to be detected. But if you're doing it often enough to make a living at it, then you're almost certainly going to have enough crunches, grinds and scrapes that your insurance company is going to notice. And yes, the insurance companies do talk to one another, and yes, you did agree to them doing that when you signed up for your current insurance policy. (If you scored the condition out, they'd decline the policy. And they talk to each other about declined policies too.)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    25. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      the taxi industry is one case which needs major reform.

      In your country, that may be the case. I simply do not think that is the case in my country, and certainly not in my city.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    26. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Übermensch : man on top ?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    27. Re:rename it by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Since the cities core is fairly wealthy, they are willing to pay more for a cleaner, quicker, and more reliable service.

      So, since higher fares are available through Uber, the higher-standards (self-imposed) licensed taxi drivers are moonlighting to Uber and buying out their own tokens (or whatever the system is locally)?

      There's really no chance of that in Seattle. The number of token is limited, the city isn't releasing any more, and the people who own them don't want to sell because they're direct income. I know one guy that was a cab driver that bought his own token, but he only got one because an owner ran into some trouble, needed money fast, and he had the money to buy it. The law limits the sale of such tokens to $20k last I heard, but he also had to slip another $80k under the table to the guy. Once you have your token, you rent it to the taxi companies, who rent it to the taxi drivers. If memory serves me correctly, that's about $200/day to the token owner pretty much every day their taxi is in service minus the cost of the taxi as they must supply the car (which are all used police cars) but the taxi company handles maintenance.

    28. Re:rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      So, if this concept of "free market" works (a big "if" ; Like I said, Adam Smith was an Edinburian, and thus remains suspect), the higher fares that you say are available through Uber will allow some licensed taxi-owner to propose to a token holder that he rent the token for $225/day, and the token holder will, in the spirit of "free enterprise", decline the extra $25/day and refuse to allow Uber into the city.

      Sorry, I'm having a problem here. Something doesn't add up. There is money in the system that you've not described. (Or the principles of "free enterprise" and "capitalism" are inaccurate descriptions of the world. And we know, as an article of faith, that the latter can't be true - 300 million Americans can't be wrong!)

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    29. Re:rename it by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      This is probably another place Uber has erred. Uber's niche market shouldn't be professional full time drivers, it should be casual ride-sharing, ie I'm already going this way, why not earn a few bucks taking someone else with me.
      An example, I used to commute interstate 3 hours each way each week. I used to advertise on the local community website for anyone who wanted a lift could chip in $20 and save a bus/train/air fare. It worked out a couple of times, but the nature of connecting casual travelers doesn't work as well on a website as it can with a phone app. Another example, we have a "transit lane" (need 3 or more in the car to drive in it) from around my suburb to the city. It cuts the drive time in half, so people regularly stop at the bus stop and pick up commuters to share a lift into town.
      So ride sharing already happens, a phone app is just a smarter way to connect both parties. Maybe the Uber model isn't the best way to achieve it, but legislation needs to be able to keep up with the changing nature of a modern society.

    30. Re: rename it by RockDoctor · · Score: 1
      Those are some fair use cases. But I rather doubt that there would be enough business there to support several 40 G$ companies. But that is the investor's look - out.

      The government (for all known values of "government") will want their pound of flesh or 20% VAT or 10% GST or whatever they call it. But they will want their tax, regardless of your wishes.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    31. Re:rename it by allo · · Score: 1

      Just use Ueber, thats how we spell it in ASCII.

      Shoudn't Slashdot support "Über"?

  5. Giant Country by DuckDuckGo · · Score: 1

    SuddenlyI figure that indian woman is very tough~~~~

  6. Culpability? by flopsquad · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let's take Uber at its word and accept that the "full range of safety mechanisms" was truly applied, and those mechanisms comport with contemporary acceptable standards for background checks in India.

    If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?

    --
    Nothing posted to /. has ever been legal advice, including this.
    1. Re:Culpability? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?

      They aren't. But it seems like there's a new trend in town - when a foreign tech company could potentially have guessed that someone using their service might potentially have done something bad, they're automatically at fault. See: Facebook and Lee Rigby in the UK.

      In this case, the logic seems fairly simple - the guy apparently had a prior conviction for rape, thus, should not be allowed to be a taxi driver. If Uber had checked then the rape wouldn't have happened (assuming it did). The problem is the guy's prior conviction was also for raping someone in a taxi cab, so obviously this isn't a solution to all such problems because there's always a first time. Another problem is that I've read India doesn't actually have a national conviction database system, indeed they barely have a coherent national identity scheme at all (I remember reading about programmes to try and introduce biometric identity nationwide to fix this but it's a huge job). Apparently the way you do a background check is walking in to the local police district office and asking. If the crime happened elsewhere, tough luck. For anyone who knows the real situation in India, I'd be interested to know if this is true.

      Anyway, even with reliable background checks, you can quickly end up in a situation like the USA where former felons cannot get jobs anywhere (see recent /. story about this problem), and then you get rules like in Europe where former convictions get wiped from the record after a few years to stop that happening, so there are no solutions that make everyone happy.

    2. Re:Culpability? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      If that is the case, and the guy came up clean but yet still went on to do X, how is Uber any more culpable than a taxi company hiring a cabbie with no record, who subsequently goes out and does X, or a tour company hiring a bus driver with a spotless background, who nonetheless does X?

      I wouldn't say they are more culpable, but obviously a company hiring taxi drivers should be on the hook for damages that their drivers cause as part of their taxi driving job, and Uber should be just as much on the hook. With the difference that apparently the company is valued as something over forty billion dollars, so I would suggest a high seven digit dollar payout to that lady.

      It obviously depends on the situation. In Germany, a company is responsible for paying damages if an employee does something that in the widest sense is "doing their job". For example, if the driver picks up a woman who needs a taxi, and drops her off and drives away some time later, the taxi company would be responsible for anything happening in between. Whether they did safety checks or not; just because they employed him.

    3. Re:Culpability? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 3, Informative

      W.R.T background checks, someone on Twitter has found a photo of a notarised police certificate stating the guy has no criminal record. So either whoever reported he has one is lying, or the police verification process in India is as unreliable as people say it is.

      Regardless, I expect it will make little difference in the court of public opinion.

    4. Re:Culpability? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Let's take Uber at its word and accept that the "full range of safety mechanisms" was truly applied, and those mechanisms comport with contemporary acceptable standards for background checks in India.

      I don't think we can do this easily. India is a different sort of place:

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...

      An Indian male can apparently be turned into a rapist by merely seeing a clothing store dummy. How on earth can they be expected to control themselves when a real live woman is in a car with them?

      Perhaps Hannibal Lecter type restraints are needed for Indian men?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:Culpability? by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      More news (seems this story is unfolding right now) - apparently the driver did NOT have a prior conviction for rape at all, but in fact had only been arrested due to an accusation. So it seems that the first possibility was the correct one, and there's really nothing that could have been done here (unless you believe anyone should be able to ban anyone else from being a taxi driver for life with nothing more than an accusation).

    6. Re:Culpability? by gnasher719 · · Score: 1

      They aren't. But it seems like there's a new trend in town - when a foreign tech company could potentially have guessed that someone using their service might potentially have done something bad, they're automatically at fault. See: Facebook and Lee Rigby in the UK.

      That one is totally different. And we don't know actually if it's true. If you were looking for terrorists, the best situation would be to publicly scream at Facebook for not reporting suspicious post, so that the stupid bastards go on posting their plans on Facebook, while Facebook actually reports any suspicious post to the government so they can get arrested in time.

      But in most places companies are responsible for the actions of their employees as long as they represent the company. There may be more responsibility if they didn't do reasonable checks, but the employer/employee relationship alone is enough to make them responsible.

    7. Re:Culpability? by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Nothing that could have been done? That's not true. They can ban any potential competitors to the existing entrenched business interests in the name of avoiding rapes.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    8. Re:Culpability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well apparently the government can ban a company from operating based on an accusation, so why not the driver?

    9. Re:Culpability? by knwny · · Score: 1
    10. Re:Culpability? by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      I'd be interested to hear what background checks the Indian taxi industry uses that would've prevened this guy from becoming a driver?

    11. Re:Culpability? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      An Indian male can apparently be turned into a rapist by merely seeing a clothing store dummy. How on earth can they be expected to control themselves when a real live woman is in a car with them?

      The author of "Jesus'n'Mo" has, ummm, covered this already. http://www.jesusandmo.net/2007...

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    12. Re:Culpability? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't the person who actually carried out the rape be responsible?

  7. Uber needs more checks and balances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The lack of transparency with Uber leaves one wondering if that in itself will eventually bring a end to the company. The ideal is great, but the sad part is that it leaves to many opportunity for bad people to take advantage of it. We see a rapid expansion of Uber and with that has come distrust, privacy concerns and now potentially hiring people who may have criminal pasts and criminal motives to become a driver for Uber. When you loose trust with the public in a big way. Your not going to survive in business very long. I have yet, to see the upper management at Uber really address any of the concerns. I think, they are too busy counting their profits to care.

    1. Re:Uber needs more checks and balances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://blog.uber.com/driverscreening

      Or you are lying? Uber does a background check on their drivers, they are only as responsible as the law makes them from that point on.

    2. Re:Uber needs more checks and balances by allo · · Score: 1

      Seems like this is a list of checks, which can be done in the US.

  8. sex crimes are the worst crimes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ask any aspiring public figure..... meanwhile sex crimes are worse than wmd on credit genocides by measure of media coverage.... 1000s of our genuine spiritual & physical allys continue dying daily from 100% preventable starvation, rockets red glare, babys bursting in air etc... still no one is responsible,, or even aware.. turn it off http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=WMD+chemtrail+ingredients .. check us out http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=truth+about+US

    1. Re:sex crimes are the worst crimes by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      So we have to work on your problem to the exclusion of all others?

      I'm not signing up.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  9. Criminal Responsibility by EzInKy · · Score: 1

    It should be law that the management of companies who place the lives of others in danger without performing due diligence to screen their subcontractors and employees will be subject to the same punishment as those that they subcontract to to provide services for the crimes their subcontractors or employees commit.

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    1. Re:Criminal Responsibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      shut the fuck up, barnacle boy.

    2. Re:Criminal Responsibility by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      So you don't feel people should be held responsible for their actions, or inactions?

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    3. Re:Criminal Responsibility by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      Due diligence can fail. Uber claims they did their background checks; apparently this is hard in India, as every police district has its own database: if you commit a crime in some other town, you're not on file locally. You have to physically walk to each precinct and request information about the person's criminal record--every city in India, every precinct--which could take years to verify the criminal history of one man.

      You can cut this down by only looking into where he worked or lived before, which is less-accurate but faster. There's no way to verify that he isn't telling you about all the places he's lived or worked, so he can leave out places where he committed crimes.

      Criminal liability lies with criminals.

    4. Re:Criminal Responsibility by EzInKy · · Score: 1

      Isn't the bottom line here though to protect the riders? Even it takes being cleared in a thousand jurisdictions, no one should be allowed to be put in a position where they could harm another if they have ever done so in the past.

      --
      Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
    5. Re:Criminal Responsibility by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you advocating for the death penalty for all crimes then?

    6. Re:Criminal Responsibility by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      No, it's not.

      Your line of thinking could be expanded: perhaps Uber should go around the entire country talking to every single individual. Perhaps they should interview every police officer. Perhaps they should subpoena all cell phone and e-mail records the person has, read all their personal stuff, and hire private investigators to infiltrate their office parties. 15 years and 36 million dollars later, they can decide if the person is safe.

      To clear a person in a thousand jurisdictions would take man-hours. You'd need staffed agents in all those jurisdictions making $40k-$70k. In India, maybe you could pay them $20k; they might not do their job well, so you'd have to clear them in the same way. Also, India's police and court systems are notoriously easy to bribe, and your hired help might be bribed as well. In the end, it's going to cost you hundreds of millions of dollars to make tens of millions of dollars in profit, or you're going to charge people $15 per mile.

      No matter what you do, you can't get a perfect record. At a point, you're putting in twice as much effort for half as much return; at a point, you're putting in a hundred times more effort for the barest fraction of return. The economic cost of such wasteful spending creates inefficiencies in the system, distorting and destroying wealth, leading to poverty, starvation, poor governments, weaker police forces, higher crime, disease, mental illness, and death; diving off the cliff of diminishing returns actually harms more people than it helps, but it abstracts that harm in the same way that belching toxic gasses into the air abstracts the cumulative health issues from the actions of coal and oil power plants.

      It is foolish to complain constantly that more can be done, because we can always cite precisely what more could have been done in hindsight; but there are thousands of things which will not help the next time, and we will eventually create a great machine of ineffective and expensive countermeasures that each may prevent one incident somewhere every hundred years. Improvements are made by recognizing those things which are cheap to adjust for and have improved return, or have significant cost but have significant return. In some cases, those improvements are outside your capabilities: Uber is an international service, and there are no international crime databases; just national crime databases are a good approximation, but India doesn't have that. Even background checks in America are faulty, because a person may have been reportedly in south Asia but in fact had crossed the border undocumented into some third-world-country to produce, procure, or take part in the production of child pornography; this person could effectively evade a top-level investigation, and become a school teacher.

      The world of economics is a complicated one in which certain kinds of harm are cut off by other kinds of harm; the least harm is done by trading those small losses for big gains. Every time a society finds a way to put in less effort for the same or greater productive output, wealth increases; every time a society puts in more effort (cost, money, time, resources, labor) for something that returns less value, wealth decreases, and poverty increases.

  10. Questions by puddingebola · · Score: 2

    If Uber is not a taxi service, what is it? If it's a "ride service", shouldn't there be regulations, statutes, city codes addressing its operation? What liability does Uber accept for the behavior and actions of its drivers?

    1. Re:Questions by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Interesting

      What liability does Uber accept for the behavior and actions of its drivers?

      From what I can tell, they seem to accept none of that, and they claim since these people don't work for them they're exempt from all regulations, because they just dispatch.

      Where I live, to be a cab you need a commercial drivers license, proper insurance, regular vehicle inspections, a tax license, and are legally required to have a camera installed in your car.

      Uber is claiming they don't have to worry about any of those things, and that the laws don't apply.

      I think Uber is full of shit, and are running a shady business where they're skirting around the law and calling it competition.

      You can't simply decide the laws and regulations around a car-for-hire service don't apply to you. They're just telling people it's safe to ride in an unlicensed cab which may or may not have the proper insurance.

      No thanks. I don't want to do business with a company who does that.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  11. Risk assessment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What ever happened to people using common sense to avoid becoming victims of crimes? Sure, it's not right for you to get raped in any circumstance, but use some common sense and don't put yourself in obvious danger, like riding alone in a cab at night in a country where rapes are common.

    Also, banning a voluntary service because one or more people had a crime happen while using it? That's ridiculous. No one made you use Uber or any other cab service. Find a different way home, or don't go out if you are that worried. If people want to take the risk, let them. If others don't, let them choose to do something else. This idea of a "nanny state" protecting us from our own choices is retarded

  12. Using the same logic by Trachman · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Police needs to be disbanded when policeman makes a violent crime.
    Army needs to be disbanded when army people kill a person.
    The medical profession and regulations need to be disbanded, when malpractice occurs, for it takes only one mistake to cause harm.
    All the regulations need to be disbanded, because they do not make the crime disappear.
    Most of the males need to be aborted, using the same logic, for all the males are statistically potential rapists. The remaining pool for the purposes of procreation should be kept all locked in the "Male camps" and used during scheduled conjugal visits.

    In a most populous country with more than 1 billion people, statistically there will be all kind of mishaps, accidents and crimes. It is unavoidable.

    If truly rapes and strangers are an issue, then most of the progress would be achieved in eliminating this type of crime closing all the night clubs and bar.
    Also the night life is when a lot of crime happens, it is safer if all the people would be under curfew during the dark hours.

    1. Re:Using the same logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish people were banned from Slashdot for making the same kinds of logical errors over and over and over again, in particular this "by the same logic" bullshit where you strawman the actual logic to death and use a stupid binary interpretation of the situation to prove that "by the same logic" mankind can't possibly operate at all.

      The world is not black and white, so you can't take a proposal and turn it into a binary function and then apply reductio ad absurdum. If you learned that you'd save yourself a hell of a lot of typing over the years.

    2. Re:Using the same logic by Trachman · · Score: 1

      There a reason certain speech is protected. Popular speech does not need protection.

      Argument that the word is not black and white is as accurate that statistically you are 10,459,000 times more likely to die from cancer or heart disease than will end up assaulted by the taxi driver.

      The are a lot of control freaks on this site, and nobody is calling to ban them.

    3. Re:Using the same logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, Uber's rhetoric isn't any better than that though.

      No, we don't follow the rules. The rules were made to protect the taxi monopolies. We're better than those dinosaurs, anyways! We give a better service, and our drivers are better!

      What, one of our drivers was a convicted rapist? Well, the rules didn't say we had to do a background check!

      What a bunch of hypocrites.

    4. Re:Using the same logic by Jahoda · · Score: 1

      >> The remaining pool for the purposes of procreation should be kept all locked in the "Male camps" and used during scheduled conjugal visits.

      Go on....

    5. Re:Using the same logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Police needs to be disbanded when policeman makes a violent crime.

      Actually, it would be great if that was the case. Then we would see a lot less police brutality and "accidents".

    6. Re:Using the same logic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Police needs to be disbanded when policeman makes a violent crime.

      You jest, but I think people are more or less advocating for this...

  13. embattled Uber transport-managing company by wiredog · · Score: 2

    With a valuation of $40,000,000,000.00 "embattled" is hardly the adjective I'd use.

    1. Re:embattled Uber transport-managing company by jandrese · · Score: 2

      Valuation is a bullshit number though. That's just what the stock market is currently betting you'll be worth. It can appear and disappear in a flash and has little connection to the actual health of the company.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
  14. You can't tell much with your head in the sand by SuperKendall · · Score: 0

    From what I can tell, they seem to accept none of that

    That's pretty much bullshit since Uber pays for extra insurance for drivers, and screens them which means obviously Uber has some liability they are guarding against.

    Where I live, to be a cab you need a commercial drivers license

    Which is just a note that you have given the state extra money, of no actual value to anyone. Uber drivers have that though, just not UberX.

    proper insurance

    Which Uber provides.

    regular vehicle inspections

    UberX also makes sure you have a vehicle in good shape before you can drive

    a tax license

    Well THAT should stop the raping!

    and are legally required to have a camera installed in your car.

    Uber drivers are all tracked by GPS continuously and if they are smart have a camera in the car or voice recording app also. It's not magic.

    Basically you've done no research and don't know what the hell you are talking about, but don't let that stop you from complaining.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:You can't tell much with your head in the sand by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      "Where I live, to be a cab you need a commercial drivers license"

      Which is just a note that you have given the state extra money, of no actual value to anyone.

      Unless you count criminal or legal liability, and then it's really important.

      "proper insurance"

      Which Uber provides.

      Sorry, but bullshit:

      It's a question that strikes at the heart of how these companies self-identify. If they are just facilitating a relationship between a third-party driver and a user, as they claim they do as "technology companies," then they shouldn't be liable for much, if anything.

      That leaves much of the insurance burden on the drivers, who are using their own personal cars and their own personal car insurance (PCI). What these drivers may not know, however, is that their PCI policy may not cover them if they're driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other "ride-sharing" app.

      They are the ones making claims which aren't supported in law.

      Basically you've done no research and don't know what the hell you are talking about, but don't let that stop you from complaining.

      No, I've heard actual Uber spokespeople talking to the media, because they're trying to come into the city where I live.

      They keep saying "oh, we don't need commercial licenses" and "we don't need to do that". The problem is that they're full of shit and can't unilaterally decree they're not covered by the law.

      Having heard their arguments about why the law doesn't apply to them, or why they're special because they're not a cab company but a software company ... I'm forced to conclude they're willing to operate outside of the law, and seem to think they can be the ones to decide what laws and regulations apply to them.

      Sorry, but that's completely delusional. All they are is an app which allows for pirate cabs, which they somehow think exempts them from legal oversight.

      That's pretty much bullshit.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:You can't tell much with your head in the sand by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      It's a question that strikes at the heart of how these companies self-identify. If they are just facilitating a relationship between a third-party driver and a user, as they claim they do as "technology companies," then they shouldn't be liable for much, if anything.

              That leaves much of the insurance burden on the drivers, who are using their own personal cars and their own personal car insurance (PCI). What these drivers may not know, however, is that their PCI policy may not cover them if they're driving for Uber, Lyft, or any other "ride-sharing" app.

      They are the ones making claims which aren't supported in law.

      Uber actually provides insurance to drivers (at least in some countries) specifically because their PCI policy may not cover them, which you are conveniently ignoring.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. It is sad to see so much generalization in this da by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is very sad to see how everyone is continuously referring us as the Indians and stereotyping.

  16. Fatal flaw was that Uber biz model by jpellino · · Score: 1

    seems to think the whole world is made of west coast techno-hipsters with Foresters and just a hint of a schedule to stick to.

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  17. So how did the driver rate the passenger? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Since Uber allows ratings of passengers...was she willing, or did he give her points off for resisting?

  18. women are objects in India by Khashishi · · Score: 0

    I have a friend who got back from a trip to India. She was traveling in a group with some other women and one man. The taxi drivers would grab the women by the arms and force them in the car like luggage, and then talk with the man about where he would like to go (with his women). My friend had bruises on her arms from repeated grabs.

    1. Re:women are objects in India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The taxi drivers would grab the women by the arms and force them in the car like luggage

      I really doubt your story. Taxi drivers would be beaten up for that. But if it really happened, I am sorry. Your friend probably got abused.

  19. Uh, no! by s.petry · · Score: 1

    Uber likes to try to frame this discussion of how it's trying to compete with the big bad taxi lobby. What they are actually doing is running unlicensed cabs operated by people who aren't very accountable, and if something goes wrong they'll claim "well, we just dispatch, we're not a cab company".

    Two separate arguments so keep them separate. First, Uber is fighting lobbyists from large firms that make a fortune paying drivers poor wages and historically not giving a rats ass about consumers. This _IS_ a real issue, and it should take about 2 minutes of investigation to determine that the cab monopolies have been harmful to both consumers and employees. It has only benefited large corporations who can afford the "fee" to Government offices, who have been the other beneficiary.

    They are not a cab company, and have never every claimed to be a cab company. They are a ride sharing service which does not do anything like a cab company.

    That one out of the way, your second point has some merit. People are not telling the truth on Uber applications, which is leading to some bad things. Worse than you get with a taxi or bus service? Hell no, in fact TFA reports an incident that occurred on the anniversary of a woman getting gang raped on a public bus. The "Uber" issue is played up however, because Uber is not paying off enough politicians. Proof that it's played up is in the same article, because if not for the Uber incident nobody in the US would know about the public bus gang rape incident. Of course most people won't read past the first paragraph either, so there is little harm in them printing the information in the last goddamn line of the story (and watch for this to be redacted in later versions, BBC has a history of doing just this.

    On point, the second issue is a concern but it has to be dealt with rationally. Uber has many more benefits than down sides. Introduce legislation and petition Uber to do more checking for background/insurance/ anything else you think they lack.

    Consider this: The bus driver that was driving when the woman was gang raped faced no charges, this driver is going to jail. Who is more accountable?

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  20. False flag operation. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is a false flag operation. The government wants to shut down Uber because it represents freedom and will do anything to accompish it.

  21. In Canada we should ban all cars by future+assassin · · Score: 1
    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
  22. What is wrong with India? by t4eXanadu · · Score: 1

    Rape is rampant in India. WTF? It's possible that the media is distorting how prevalent it is due to a few of the high profile gang rape cases that have been reported, but still. You don't hear about gang rape of women here in the U.S.. Get your shit together, India.

  23. Re: It is sad to see so much generalization in thi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True. This is a crime case. Don't bring culture into it.

  24. Sadly,... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here is a German living in India for a long term about "rapes are so common in India"
    http://mariawirthblog.wordpress.com/2014/01/27/why-this-focus-on-rapes-in-india-by-world-media/
    Quote:
    The campaign to paint India blacker than it is sadly has worked. It is now a ÃfactÃ(TM) for most foreigners (and for the convinced Indians) that Indian women have to live terrible lives, more terrible than anywhere else. No disagreeing possible. Everyone will shout you down with plenty of horrific examples. Yes, there are plenty of horrific examples and one needs to find out the reasons and find remedies. But individual criminals do not define a country, even less, if other countries have more of them. So why is India beaten with Ãoeanother gang rapeà again and again? Is the purpose to spoil the image of India? And if so, why?

  25. I'm tired of attending school by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wish the criminal's occupation was a teacher. Seeing how one teacher is dangerous and so all must be dangerous too, I'm sure Delhi government would have been cautious and logical enough to accept that schools should be banned.

  26. Rape is traditional by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rape is traditional in India. Uber has nothing to do with that. Just like guns in USA..

  27. Re:Makes me wonder....... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This isn't your psychiatrist's email, dude..