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Fedora 21 Released

Posted by Soulskill on from the can-now-drink-in-the-U.S. dept.

linuxscreenshot writes: The Fedora Project has announced the release of Fedora 21. "As part of the Fedora.next initiative, Fedora 21 comes in three flavors: Cloud, Server, and Workstation. Cloud is now a top-level deliverable for Fedora 21, and includes images for use in private cloud environments like OpenStack, as well as AMIs for use on Amazon, and a new "Atomic" image streamlined for running Docker containers. The Fedora Server flavor is a common base platform that is meant to run featured application stacks, which are produced, tested, and distributed by the Server Working Group. The Fedora Workstation is a new take on desktop development from the Fedora community. Our goal is to pick the best components, and integrate and polish them. This work results in a more polished and targeted system than you've previously seen from the Fedora desktop." Here are screenshots for Fedora 21: GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and MATE.

106 comments

  1. It's about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Fedora 20 installer didn't have a recent enough kernel to use Intel Haswell chipsets.

  2. It has systemd? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    If it has systemd it can get right back into custody.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    1. Re:It has systemd? by present_arms · · Score: 2

      "If it has systemd it can get right back into custody." It does http://docs.fedoraproject.org/...

      --
      http://chimpbox.us
    2. Re:It has systemd? by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's had it since Fedora 15.

    3. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Umm...a lot of us who did not like SystemD moved to BSD already. You're still whining at the Linux side?

    4. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      systemd - the new face of wannabe nerds who want to look like they know something and need to vent.

    5. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fedora Release Day Drinking Game: At least two idiotic comments about systemd in the first five on /.? Take a shot.

      They on only idiotic in your opinion. Others might even think that your statement is the idiotic one.

    6. Re:It has systemd? by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Yup, that's where I'm going. Building a database server and it's going on FreeBSD. I was a loyal Debian user up until this fiasco.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    7. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fedora is pretty much the testbed for systemd.

      And also why it is unlikely that Torvalds will raise a stink about systemd, as it is his distro of choice.

      Ts'o on the other hand is a Debian guy, and have voiced misgivings on G+ from time to time.

    8. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      After more than a decade of trolling, your karma is finally catching up to you. I am very pleased!

    9. Re:It has systemd? by thule · · Score: 2

      It does, and I like it so far. It's been in Fedora for a while now.

    10. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Fedora Release Day Drinking Game: At least two idiotic comments about systemd in the first five on /.? Take a shot."

      Well, that was quick.

    11. Re:It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Have fun with that, if you're running a UEFI/GPT based system you can't use ZFS, one of the biggest reasons to use FreeBSD in the first place.

    12. Re:It has systemd? by Bengie · · Score: 3, Informative

      FreeBSD 9.0+ supports GPT and FreeBSD 10.1 supports UEFI now.

    13. Re:It has systemd? by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 1

      Lol, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

    14. Re:It has systemd? by nbritton · · Score: 2

      FreeBSD is moving to launchd, maybe you should try plan 9.

    15. Re: It has systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ZFS on Linux works just fine. Plenty of documentation. The license incompatibility only prevents distribution as part of a distro with the kernel, hence you just need to add the repo to your apt/yum sources.

  3. F21 by FrostedWheat · · Score: 4, Informative

    I got it installed on my laptop a few hours ago, and so far no dramas. Nice work everyone.

    1. Re:F21 by WillKemp · · Score: 1

      I installed the beta on my laptop several weeks ago and i haven't had much in the way of problems either. But there are a couple of things i still can't get working properly - QGIS and VirtualBox. The QGIS (gdal, really) problem fix will hopefully be pushed soon, and i don't care about VirtualBox any more, as i was forced to use qemu/kvm/virt-manager instead and i prefer it.

    2. Re:F21 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's actually so sad that running an OS for a few hours WITHOUT drama is something you need to applaud for.

    3. Re:F21 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's actually sad is that you felt the need to post what you just did in response to someone who provided a bit of actual information.

      For many types of software, installation woes are fairly common, these days. Information (albeit anecdotal) that there seems to be little of that sort of issues is useful. It may increase the number of installation attempts and thus provide even more useful feedback.

      In comparison, your comment was completely useless.

      Isn't it ironic?

  4. yes, it does have systemd by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    Each of the flavors builds on the "base" set of packages for Fedora. For instance, each flavor uses the same packages for the kernel, RPM, Yum, systemd, Anaconda, and so forth.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:yes, it does have systemd by caseih · · Score: 2

      Funny people even ask about it. A lot of posters talk like systemd is a brand new scary thing, when it fact it's been in Fedora for a long time. Two and a half years, if I recall correctly.

    2. Re:yes, it does have systemd by coffee_bouzu · · Score: 3, Informative

      Funny people even ask about it. A lot of posters talk like systemd is a brand new scary thing, when it fact it's been in Fedora for a long time. Two and a half years, if I recall correctly.

      Actually, it's been three and a half years. Fedora 15 was the first Fedora with systemd and that was released in May, 2011.

    3. Re: yes, it does have systemd by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      SystemD was cool and innovative back then. It is now cool to hate and bash it 3 months ago from an article posted here.

      Now you're a troll if you talk about benefits and insightful for stiring misgivings. It is political as no one gave a crap until recently

      --
      http://saveie6.com/
    4. Re: yes, it does have systemd by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      SystemD was cool and innovative back then. It is now cool to hate and bash it 3 months ago from an article posted here.

      Now you're a troll if you talk about benefits and insightful for stiring misgivings. It is political as no one gave a crap until recently

      Well, I never gave a crap until it started biting me on the ass.

      What inflamed me was people trying to convince me that I was an ungratefui idiot because I like my logfiles out in the open where they can be read without intermediate agencies. Having already endured their approach on other systems.

    5. Re: yes, it does have systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes because rsyslog doesn't work on systems /s

  5. Fedora Infrastructure: Major service disruption by xose · · Score: 2

    High traffic due to F21 release: http://status.fedoraproject.org/

    Fedora 21 Public Active Mirrors: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/21/

  6. dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fedora is junk now. Their installation starts Network Manager then explains that if this isn't a laptop installation it is better to not use it. Pulse Audio and the music programs have never been able to get through my music collection. And only half of it on the drive.

    Systemd explains that their binary log format will get corrupted. As if that was acceptable. Well it is for RedHat and the Fedora Project. It is not acceptable to me.

    I have moved on. Hello slackware my old friend, it is good to install a good distro once again.

    1. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by coffee_bouzu · · Score: 1

      Their installation starts Network Manager then explains that if this isn't a laptop installation it is better to not use it.

      The installer has used Network Manager for many releases and has doesn't say not to use it outside laptops. Not really sure where you got that from. I use NM on most of my machines - the only place I don't always use it is when I need a network bridge for VMs.

      Systemd explains that their binary log format will get corrupted. As if that was acceptable.

      not sure it's wise to even touch this one but will is a touch strong. While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem.

    2. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by caseih · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years. So why bother commenting on it? Systemd has been in Fedora for over two and a half years. You're a little late to the whining party. I highly doubt you've even used PulseAudio before. PulseAudio has pretty much just worked for several years now (yes it was a disruptive change at the time) and I for one am extremely glad to have it. It makes audio in Linux not suck. Don't know what world you live in, but it appears to be stuck a few years ago when there actually were problems. Occasionally I have a glitch of some kind, but I also had problems with straight ALSA too. Having multiple devices and multiples streams is an awesome feature that brings Linux a little bit more feature parity with Windows. Note that PulseAudio and Jack serve different purposes. Use whichever one supports your needs at that moment. PA happily gets out of Jack's way when you need to do some real-time audio processing.

      I sound like a broken record, but at least for enterprise distros like RHEL, standard syslogs are pretty much required (possibly under certain legal frameworks some enterprises operate under). Therefor RHEL 7 has rsyslog and it works fine. You can also enable in Fedora if you want. Using rsyslog as a long-term audit-able log, and then using journald as a short-term, highly-detailed debugging log is a good compromise, IMO. The level of detail journald can capture is very nice when you need it. Not sure where Fedora wants to go with this issue ultimately. We'll have to see.

    3. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      IIRC journald will fill up your filesystem and uses so much space if you don't rein (rain) it in that odds on it is what will get corrupted.

    4. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by kolbe · · Score: 2

      > "While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem."

      *cough* BULLSHIT! *cough*

      - Laptop failure to resume from suspend = corrupted logs
      - Power loss or hard off on systems = corrupted logs
      - Too long a log retention = corrupted logs

      From an amazon cloud server running RHEL7 last couple of weeks:
      File corruption detected at /var/log/journal/2dd5724e1e1542fc9a4aa75nov26cc150/system@f0282a3cd24344648a0bbe3a801ead66-000000000001b5d4-0004cfd1dbb89d83.journal:191117416 (of 233118464, 82%).

      journalctl absolutely needs to be improved to handle corrupt logs better... maybe something to repair them instead of switching to "clean" them?
       

    5. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by kolbe · · Score: 1

      > "It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years."

      Actually, I've been grumbling about it since Fedora 15, but I just never gave up grumbling about it because I am forced to use it for my work. I currently run F20 on a workstation for managing various systems both in the cloud and managed in a local series of VMWare clusters. I use Fedora because it helps me maintain a step ahead of the stuff coming "down the pipe" to Redhat.

      > "but at least for enterprise distros like RHEL, standard syslogs are pretty much required"

      Rsyslog is quite literally the ONLY reason several of my customers can even run RHEL7... It's amazing how many Developers/Engineers/Admins base their scripts, reports, monitoring and other functions off of log output.

      In the end, I am just waiting for the market to "speak" as to whether they accept RHEL7... I am required to give it a year to know for sure. If I had my way though, I'd go back to Slackware or FreeBSD, but that's not my sole choice. As a closing, fvck deps... that is what I feel about anything from 0pointer.

    6. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by kolbe · · Score: 1

      Welcome to traditional BSD partition tables... Dedicated /var/log partitions ftw.

    7. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Bengie · · Score: 1

      SystemD has a "journal" that is sensitive to unexpected shutdowns. The purpose of a journal is to protect from corruption. You'd think they would use a data structure that is safe from unexpected interruptions.

    8. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, what it does is exactly the right thing. Stop writing, you can't trust that file any more, start writing on something you can verify. There really isn't any other option that is secure/auditable.

    9. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Used it this last year. Kept trying to get it to play nice. Each release since 18 they keep making it play less nice. I didn't fully give up until mid-way through 20. 21 will be the first that I will not even bother to download.

    10. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      of course it doesn't. it has sensible maximum file sizes (both in terms of absolute size and percentage of the filesystem they're on).

    11. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      it doesn't 'clean' anything. it switches to a new file, and whenever you read the journal, reads as much data as it can from the corrupted file.

    12. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by DrXym · · Score: 2
      I hate the Fedora installer. I can see what its trying to do but the usability is all over the place. It's not a wizard, the buttons are in unconventional positions, and oftentimes it is unclear whether you have applied things or not because there is a substantial delay between doing something and it reflecting in the UI.

      Once its installed and running it's fine though.

    13. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember doing that on my first unix and linux installs. Had to learn the best way to distribute and size each of the partitions. I had heard many guidelines on how to set the swap area, like 10% of the disk's capacity, from 1.1x to 2x the physical RAM, just enough for a crash dump (kernel + lil bit of memory)... fun times.

      I remember when, years later, I installed Solaris 10 on an old (late '90s) Sun E3500 server with vary small capacity disk drives that we "found" in a corner of the lab not being used, and just for fun we decided to see if that whole "compatibility" thing worked. I had to put the swap area in its own disk, another for /, a disk for /opt, another for /usr, one for /home (or was it /export/home? I forget), and so on. Worked nicely...albeit much slower than current-gen (can't believe I said that) servers.

    14. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by devent · · Score: 1

      And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
    15. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by DUdsen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      SystemD has a "journal" that is sensitive to unexpected shutdowns. The purpose of a journal is to protect from corruption. You'd think they would use a data structure that is safe from unexpected interruptions.

      Yep and thats why it's irresponsively for any server admin to not pipe journald output straigt into rsyslogd, and thats how it is with all of the "systemd" selling points.

      Journald was introduces as a hack to workaround the rare edge case where systemd needs to write a log entry about a syslogd crash and sort of grew into the one true log system with 1/10 of the features and none of the reliance of more modern syslog deamons.

      It's not that systemd is bad pr see it that is being sold by morons to morons as a cure for problems that either dont exist or is not fixed by systemd. Hopefully nobody outside of redhat decide to go all in and replace all of the old scaffolding that systemd pretend to make obsolete need but in practice dont replace by anything that works better.

    16. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by OolimPhon · · Score: 1

      And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.

      And a human brain can make some sense out of a corrupted text logfile that no program ever could.

    17. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by walshy007 · · Score: 1

      Note that PulseAudio and Jack serve different purposes. Use whichever one supports your needs at that moment. PA happily gets out of Jack's way when you need to do some real-time audio processing.

      Jack serves all purposes except one really, low power consumption and massive/varying buffers.

      Having multiple devices and multiples streams is an awesome feature that brings Linux a little bit more feature parity with Windows.

      We've had that with jack long before pulseaudio was even a thought

      There were serious design issues with pulseaudio when first released, I'd seen some of the discussions between poettering (pulse) and davis (jack) it was pretty clear that poettering was winging it without anywhere near as much of a clue about the various design considerations of it all.

      Overall the project screamed of "not invented here", there were far better ways to go about the goals without dragging the community through that shitfest.

      Now it is certainly a lot better than what it was, but that is not to say that there aren't better ways to go about it, or that the pain it made everyone endure was worth it.

    18. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you saying the whole file gets corrupted? That isn't what happens, at most you lose a line. Haters gonna hate.

    19. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Have your really tried the latest installer it is fairly obvious what you have to do even if you are using LVM. Fedora 20 was a little confusing but it was logicaI and not that hard to get a handle on. With the Fedora 21 installer I doubt you could make it that much easier.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    20. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by kolbe · · Score: 1

      Solaris = /export/home

      To this day, I still use a dedicated /var, /var/www, /var/lib/mysql or /var/log filesystem (depending on application) as it helps ensure that the fs doesn't get overrun by logs/data. The whole idea of a "one size fits all" lvm configured rootfs makes me shudder in horror.

    21. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just installed F21.

      * It puts 'Done' in the *far* upper left-hand side. This is inconsistent with almost every other dialog box over the past 20 years.
      * The 'update' button is on the far lower right-hand side.
      * The partitioning flow is not obvious. The selection box for LVM affects the auto flow which is unexpected.
      * The configuration 'help'/'options' are strangely placed in the window where partition information is displayed and then removed as soon as a new partition is added. Why can't I manually add some partitions, then decide it won't work and click the auto button? Instead I have to manually remove each partition(except any pre-existing ones), then click auto.
      * There is no explanation what LVM is(which it defaults to using).
      * There is no 'quit', 'cancel' or 'back' from the partition configuration. You have to manually click on '-' to remove any Linux partitions otherwise the tool thinks that configuration is what you want.
      * It still has UI bugs. Clicks on 'Done' were ignored if the no swap warning showed up despite that message telling me I could click 'Done' again and keep going.

      The good:
      It lets you setup accounts while installing files.

    22. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by DrXym · · Score: 1
      I'm not saying it's hard but it's still has usability that's all over the place. A done button in the top left, an install in the bottom right, where's cancel? The post install welcome screen puts its buttons in the top right! And it's not clear the tasks are actually clickable since they don't look like things to be clicked on (a slight background might help). Another confusion is the exclamation mark sometimes means "you must do something" and other times "you might do something" e.g. I must set my partition but during installation I don't have to create a user, or rather if I change the root password, the exclamation point disappears from add user task.

      It's not insurmountable. It's just a bad first impression.

    23. Re:dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in on by devent · · Score: 1

      Really? Maybe I give you my 10 years old hard disk with my old pictures. Maybe you can restore them with your super brain.
      Joking besides, a binary format is more terse then a text format, meaning on a corruption less data is corrupted.

      --
      http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
  7. Re: Fedora Infrastructure: Major service disruptio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Where are the torrents? That might help with the overload...

  8. Re:and no one cares by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    No screenshots of Fedora on Blackbox either.

  9. does grub2-probe work out of the box? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last I tried it devtmpfs was required to be to be part of the kernel, which it was not in the vanilla install of the beta. Centos7,Ubuntu 14.04 are also guilty of the probe failure due to missing kernel functionality. This means it wont find and grubify existing OS installs, including windows. Makes it hard to recommend to friends & family if it wont upgrade in place on an existing windows install. NE1 have an alternate distro suggestion that works as expected?

    1. Re:does grub2-probe work out of the box? by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      "This means it wont find and grubify existing OS installs, including windows. "

      No, it doesn't. We test that. It works fine. It uses os-prober, see /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober .

  10. Re: Fedora Infrastructure: Major service disruptio by coffee_bouzu · · Score: 2

    A list of the torrents for F21: http://torrents.fedoraproject....

  11. Fedora release story by quantaman · · Score: 0

    Let the hatefest begin!

    --
    I stole this Sig
  12. But will it be stable? by lsllll · · Score: 1

    I have been using Fedora since FC3. Used to use Mandrake before that. I'll have to check 21 out tonight, but my gut feeling is that it's not going to go so well. I believe the last version of Fedora that was rock-solid stable and had support for pretty much anything I threw at it was FC18. For the sake of diversity, I run Ubuntu (XFCE) on my desktop at home, FC20 (XFCE) at work, and CentOS5 and CentOS6 on all the servers I'm involved in.

    One of the botches I believe FC team did was when they changed the interface for the hard drives during the installation. Yeah, I know, I switch to console and fdisk and parted everything the way I want it, but the GUI used to be really simple before they changed it.

    --
    Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    1. Re:But will it be stable? by WillKemp · · Score: 1

      Yeah, installation's as painful as ever. But apart from that F21 is fine. I've been using the beta since it was released and haven't had any major problems. (I've been using Fedora since it was RH4).

    2. Re:But will it be stable? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Pick the "spin" ISO you want (eg, KDE, Gnome, Xfce ... etc) from the appropriate site and download it. Create a bootable DVD or USB (This what I do) then Install., it's pretty easy. Of course it should go without saying but backup and make sure you have documented all customisations which is user info, repos, wireless password (if appropriate), then when the install is finished (usually within 20 minutes) add those customisation and any additional software.

      As far as partitioning this new distro is simplicity itself and I actually use LVM to create the appropriate volumes and then use ext4 for my file-system.

      I did have one major issue which was not the fault of Fedora and that was a faulty sector on my disk. A complete reformat fixed that but my recovery took a few hours. If I get any more bad spots on my disk I will have not choice but to replace it.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  13. Re:Inbstalled it at work by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Minimalist? Gnome? You're joking, right?

    If you want to be a minimalist, run ratpoison or something similar. There's several to chose from. Or even xfce. But not Gnome.

    There is not one good thing I can think of to say about Gnome3. Gnome2 made KDE4 look bad, but Gnome3 made it look good. (Mind you, KDE3 was better than any of the aforesaid.) When Gnome2 left the repository I dithered between xfce and KDE4 (and LXDE and...) but finally settled on KDE4 due mainly to a printer management issue, and a little bit to applications getting stuck under the upper screen panel in xfce. I barely considered Gnome3 because it was, and is, truely terrible unless you're using a tablet, or possibly a phone.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  14. M'lady! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    M'lady!

    *tips fedora*

  15. Re:and no one cares by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you cared enough to post, and type in the "capta" as well.

  16. Re:Inbstalled it at work by jones_supa · · Score: 1

    So, just to make sure... have you tried GNOME3?

  17. Re:I say this as a user for 10 years..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Confused.

    You used Fedora for 10 years yet were able to get more done in Gentoo in two months then you could in Fedora in a year?

  18. Fedora 20 upgrade comments by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The server/workstation/cloud flavor thing is lame especially given you can't ever switch. Why can't we just pick software we want and be done with it?

    The ultra-modern ultra-spartan mobile meme website sucks. Impossible to find anything without hitting from goggle. You declutter and hide everything predictable result is nobody can find anything.

    Upgrade from F20 added a firewall daemon that fucked up my iptables configuration.

    Quick check using nmap shows something new listening on port 9090 some "cockpit" management BS. This is really what I want in my life is a management web server.. right up there on my Christmas wish list next to a Supermicro IPMI module.

    Upgrade was "stuck" at the end with a message saying writing logs and then we'll reboot.. this is just below a cool ascii hotdog man mascot... This writing logs thing appears to have been quite busy writing a copy of every system log entry since dawn of civilization to a new file labeled /var/log/upgrade.log ... after about an hour and 400mb log file.. I finally said F this and rebooted.

    Hey I can't complain too much upgrade actually worked and it actually booted. The only reason I upgraded is because if I don't then updates stop working after about a year... I really need to bite the bullet one day and switch to a distribution that does not worship at the church of bleeding edge.

    Anymore it is akin to improving design of electrical sockets... sure you might make them "better" in some way but dealing with associated change is a net negative value prop considering what the system is used for.

    1. Re:Fedora 20 upgrade comments by AdamWill · · Score: 2

      Choosing the Server product on upgrade will install the Server packages, including its firewall configuration and Cockpit, because...that's Server. If you just want to keep the existing packages you have installed, choose 'nonproduct'. You can remove Cockpit if you don't want it.

    2. Re:Fedora 20 upgrade comments by kushaldas · · Score: 1

      The server/workstation/cloud flavor thing is lame especially given you can't ever switch. Why can't we just pick software we want and be done with it?...

      You can choose a different flavor by using the yum command. There is a even simpler way to convert a Fedora Cloud instance to Fedora Server. Just install cloudtofedora package and run cloudtofedora command.

    3. Re:Fedora 20 upgrade comments by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

      I really need to bite the bullet one day and switch to a distribution that does not worship at the church of bleeding edge.

      That, and stop complaining about a product that is clearly advertised as being bleeding edge.

      I upgraded from F20 via fedup and these instruction, and had zero problems: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki...

    4. Re:Fedora 20 upgrade comments by donaldm · · Score: 1

      You should have picked the appropriate "spin" that you wanted such as KDE or Xfce or ... etc. It is very easy to install and you don't have any stuff you don't need.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  19. Re:Inbstalled it at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gnome is not minimalist

  20. They took down the Pirate Bay by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Just so we wouldn't be able to pirate copies of the new Fedora 21. Those bastards...

  21. Where is the Cinnamon desktop? by The+Davii · · Score: 1

    Even with the new changes to GNOME, I still can't stand it. Where is the Cinnamon desktop spin?

    1. Re:Where is the Cinnamon desktop? by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      There isn't one, the Cinnamon maintainer doesn't want to make one, for some reason. You can install from the 'Server' netinst and choose the Cinnamon package set, though, that'll work fine.

  22. About the Spins by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm just downloading the KDE Spin now by torrent (note that the main download button still offers F20). I assume it's neither Workstation nor Server nor Cloud. Anyone know?

    1. Re:About the Spins by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      Correct, it's not considered to be one of the Products. It's just Fedora.

  23. ** Crickets ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OS X is a better operating system. If you use Fedora, you are basically advertising to the world that you don't care about actually getting work done. If you tried to work for me, I'd laugh you out of the interview room.

    1. Re:** Crickets ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious why you would post about OS-X on a thread about Fedora 21?

      If you are hiring people with OS X experience yet interviewing people with "Linux" experience... something doesn't seem right with your interview process.

      Generally you should screen before you actually call people in.

    2. Re:** Crickets ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He didn't say he was interview for linux people specifically. He stated, quite clearly, that he felt OS X was better and if you came in looking for work but were Linux (Fedora) specific he would laugh you out of the room as he wants OS X coders. Why HR would bring them in for the interview is left to your imagination.

      Consider it like a science fiction story. OS X is a mach kernel and was/is BSD based but it has been expanded it to Next Step then to OS X. With the BSD license they are not required to give anything back, except attitude it would seem and it obviously affects its users. You have to learn to ignore the logic leaps required for the plot to develop past the basic setup. BSD/Mach Kernel good. Everything else bad. Fedora worse, possibly waiting for a plot twist to explain Ubuntu.

    3. Re:** Crickets ** by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What if I use Gentoo? My CTO hired me because he was impressed I could use it in a test environment he had set up.

    4. Re:** Crickets ** by OneSmartFellow · · Score: 1

      Very funny post.

      Please continue to post regularly

  24. More Dependencies! by kolbe · · Score: 0

    Hurray! More 0pointer dependencies that need rpm -e --nodeps on!

    If it weren't for stable RHEL6.X and XFCE, I'd have dumped Fedora back in version 15, but this latest version 21 (codename /dev/null ) is really making me contemplate it again.

    Anyone got a suggestion for a distro without so much dep crap?

    1. Re:More Dependencies! by caseih · · Score: 1

      What dependencies are these? You imply you've used recent versions of Fedora. But I can't think of any major, disruptive, 0pointer software dependencies that have been added in the latest release. systemd? Fedora 15. Pulseaudio? Fedora 14. firewalld? Fedora 18. (Firewalld can be removed easily; just yum remove it). No new 0pointer stuff here.

      So I don't know what you're talking about here, and I suspect you don't either. Hoping to score some cheap points? You're a bit late with the hate.

    2. Re:More Dependencies! by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      Lennart doesn't have anything to do with firewalld, FWIW.

  25. lol karma by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rob malda fucks g0ats

  26. Re:Inbstalled it at work by epyT-R · · Score: 1

    lol.. since when is gnome, nevermind gnome 3 considered minimalist?

  27. Re: Fedora Infrastructure: Major service disruptio by Bengie · · Score: 1

    I'm seeding, go crazy! My connection is mostly idle seeding most of those torrents.

  28. running great since alpha - only one issue by bingoUV · · Score: 2

    Installed since Alpha, using full time since Beta. No major issues - just lxdm user switch doesn't work. Hope it is fixed in final release.

    Switched to lightdm, so not checked lxdm issue yet.

    --
    Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
  29. What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why did you get rid of the "Everything" DVD image that Fedora 20 had?

    The Desktop version of 21 is a live image.
    The Server version of 21 has no GUI.

    What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?

    1. Re:What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Why did you get rid of the "Everything" DVD image that Fedora 20 had?

      The Desktop version of 21 is a live image. The Server version of 21 has no GUI.

      What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?

      Yes that is originally what I thought but once i selected the KDE spin and installed it along with the software I wanted I actually ended up with approx 4.1GB in "/" which is a huge reduction from my Fedora 20 DVD installation of 9GB. In addition it took me only about 90 minutes to actually download the "spin", create a bootable USB stick, install, customise, add additional software and update.

      Fedora 20 actually took over 4 hours to do the same thing but without a reasonable speed network you would be have a minimal installation from the Live install. At least with the full DVD you can install allot more software although you would still need to update it at some stage..

      Not sure how you would KickStart a Desktop machine although you could possible make a repo machine that contains the Fedora 21 packages which you could KickStart off. I actually have done this with Redhat servers so it should be similar with desktops.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    2. Re:What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine? by AdamWill · · Score: 1

      "What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?"

      Use Server. The Server network install image is the canonical thing to use for non-live installs of any kind, basically use it just as you'd use the netinst.iso in previous releases.

      We're aware this sounds a bit weird, sorry about that. I can give you the *extremely* long version if you like, but the short version is that when it came to actually *implementing* the Product stuff there were the kinds of 'oh, so that doesn't quite work the way we thought it would' moments you'd expect in making such a significant change to an existing distro with existing release engineering tooling.

      The upshot of one of them was that having Product-ish network install images turned out to be basically impossible to do, and after a while of banging our heads on trying to fix it we figured, you know what, we don't really need them anyway. Given how the practical implementation of the Products turned out for F21 at least, we can just have a single network install that can deploy anything, just like we did before.

      Unfortunately by that point it wasn't really practical to try and set up some kind of new/old tree to build it out of and give it generic branding, so the story for F21 is: for anything like that, use Server. Use the 'Server' network install image for doing any kind of non-live deployment - the only 'Server' things about it are the visual branding and the fact that it *defaults* to the Server package set, but you can successfully deploy any Product or non-Product package set from it, it's functionally little different from the F20 generic network install image.

      The Server/ tree on the mirrors is also the canonical source of things like the PXE boot kernel/initramfs, and the fedup upgrade initramfs.

      Again, this obviously isn't optimal design, it's just kinda how things worked out in the F21 timeframe (there are some really boring release engineering considerations behind it all that I can explain if you're having trouble sleeping). For F22, all being well, it'll be cleaned up.

      The 'Fedora' DVD wasn't actually an 'Everything' DVD, for the record. The repo tree called Everything has literally every package in it but is not 'composed', i.e. it doesn't have installer images and we can't build release media out of it. It still exists for F21. The Fedora repo tree in previous releases (it doesn't exist in F21) was what the DVD and netinst images were built out of. It didn't contain all packages, it contained the set of packages that was chosen to go on the DVD media - substantially fewer than are in the Everything tree.

      The 'Fedora' generic DVD image was dropped as part of the whole Product-ization approach, basically the idea being there's a Product image or live spin for most use cases, and install via the Server netinst covers other cases. The specific case of 'I want to do an offline install with a custom package set that's covered by the old Fedora DVD package set but not the new Server DVD package set' is lost with this change, yep, we're sorry about that - ultimately to make a significant change like Products *something* had to be lost, and that's one of the things that was. The Fedora/ tree in the repos doesn't exist any more because its purpose was to build the Fedora DVD image.

  30. Re:Fuck Lennart. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    Your mind, apparently.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  31. Re:Inbstalled it at work by HiThere · · Score: 1

    Yes.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  32. Re: dropped that fool and the systemd it rode in o by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow. Your system is really fucked up. I've been using Fedora on all my systems (workstation and servers) since 2007 and haven't ever had those sorts of problems. In fact, for at least 4 years now I've never had any installation issues. Maybe I'm just lucky, or maybe you're just a terrible sysadmin.