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Fedora 21 Released
linuxscreenshot writes: The Fedora Project has announced the release of Fedora 21. "As part of the Fedora.next initiative, Fedora 21 comes in three flavors: Cloud, Server, and Workstation. Cloud is now a top-level deliverable for Fedora 21, and includes images for use in private cloud environments like OpenStack, as well as AMIs for use on Amazon, and a new "Atomic" image streamlined for running Docker containers. The Fedora Server flavor is a common base platform that is meant to run featured application stacks, which are produced, tested, and distributed by the Server Working Group. The Fedora Workstation is a new take on desktop development from the Fedora community. Our goal is to pick the best components, and integrate and polish them. This work results in a more polished and targeted system than you've previously seen from the Fedora desktop." Here are screenshots for Fedora 21: GNOME, KDE, Xfce, LXDE, and MATE.
If it has systemd it can get right back into custody.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I got it installed on my laptop a few hours ago, and so far no dramas. Nice work everyone.
Each of the flavors builds on the "base" set of packages for Fedora. For instance, each flavor uses the same packages for the kernel, RPM, Yum, systemd, Anaconda, and so forth.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
High traffic due to F21 release: http://status.fedoraproject.org/
Fedora 21 Public Active Mirrors: http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/publiclist/Fedora/21/
No screenshots of Fedora on Blackbox either.
A list of the torrents for F21: http://torrents.fedoraproject....
Their installation starts Network Manager then explains that if this isn't a laptop installation it is better to not use it.
The installer has used Network Manager for many releases and has doesn't say not to use it outside laptops. Not really sure where you got that from. I use NM on most of my machines - the only place I don't always use it is when I need a network bridge for VMs.
Systemd explains that their binary log format will get corrupted. As if that was acceptable.
not sure it's wise to even touch this one but will is a touch strong. While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem.
"This means it wont find and grubify existing OS installs, including windows. "
No, it doesn't. We test that. It works fine. It uses os-prober, see /etc/grub.d/30_os-prober .
I have been using Fedora since FC3. Used to use Mandrake before that. I'll have to check 21 out tonight, but my gut feeling is that it's not going to go so well. I believe the last version of Fedora that was rock-solid stable and had support for pretty much anything I threw at it was FC18. For the sake of diversity, I run Ubuntu (XFCE) on my desktop at home, FC20 (XFCE) at work, and CentOS5 and CentOS6 on all the servers I'm involved in.
One of the botches I believe FC team did was when they changed the interface for the hard drives during the installation. Yeah, I know, I switch to console and fdisk and parted everything the way I want it, but the GUI used to be really simple before they changed it.
Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
Minimalist? Gnome? You're joking, right?
If you want to be a minimalist, run ratpoison or something similar. There's several to chose from. Or even xfce. But not Gnome.
There is not one good thing I can think of to say about Gnome3. Gnome2 made KDE4 look bad, but Gnome3 made it look good. (Mind you, KDE3 was better than any of the aforesaid.) When Gnome2 left the repository I dithered between xfce and KDE4 (and LXDE and...) but finally settled on KDE4 due mainly to a printer management issue, and a little bit to applications getting stuck under the upper screen panel in xfce. I barely considered Gnome3 because it was, and is, truely terrible unless you're using a tablet, or possibly a phone.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years. So why bother commenting on it? Systemd has been in Fedora for over two and a half years. You're a little late to the whining party. I highly doubt you've even used PulseAudio before. PulseAudio has pretty much just worked for several years now (yes it was a disruptive change at the time) and I for one am extremely glad to have it. It makes audio in Linux not suck. Don't know what world you live in, but it appears to be stuck a few years ago when there actually were problems. Occasionally I have a glitch of some kind, but I also had problems with straight ALSA too. Having multiple devices and multiples streams is an awesome feature that brings Linux a little bit more feature parity with Windows. Note that PulseAudio and Jack serve different purposes. Use whichever one supports your needs at that moment. PA happily gets out of Jack's way when you need to do some real-time audio processing.
I sound like a broken record, but at least for enterprise distros like RHEL, standard syslogs are pretty much required (possibly under certain legal frameworks some enterprises operate under). Therefor RHEL 7 has rsyslog and it works fine. You can also enable in Fedora if you want. Using rsyslog as a long-term audit-able log, and then using journald as a short-term, highly-detailed debugging log is a good compromise, IMO. The level of detail journald can capture is very nice when you need it. Not sure where Fedora wants to go with this issue ultimately. We'll have to see.
So, just to make sure... have you tried GNOME3?
The server/workstation/cloud flavor thing is lame especially given you can't ever switch. Why can't we just pick software we want and be done with it?
The ultra-modern ultra-spartan mobile meme website sucks. Impossible to find anything without hitting from goggle. You declutter and hide everything predictable result is nobody can find anything.
Upgrade from F20 added a firewall daemon that fucked up my iptables configuration.
Quick check using nmap shows something new listening on port 9090 some "cockpit" management BS. This is really what I want in my life is a management web server.. right up there on my Christmas wish list next to a Supermicro IPMI module.
Upgrade was "stuck" at the end with a message saying writing logs and then we'll reboot.. this is just below a cool ascii hotdog man mascot... This writing logs thing appears to have been quite busy writing a copy of every system log entry since dawn of civilization to a new file labeled /var/log/upgrade.log ... after about an hour and 400mb log file.. I finally said F this and rebooted.
Hey I can't complain too much upgrade actually worked and it actually booted. The only reason I upgraded is because if I don't then updates stop working after about a year... I really need to bite the bullet one day and switch to a distribution that does not worship at the church of bleeding edge.
Anymore it is akin to improving design of electrical sockets... sure you might make them "better" in some way but dealing with associated change is a net negative value prop considering what the system is used for.
Just so we wouldn't be able to pirate copies of the new Fedora 21. Those bastards...
Even with the new changes to GNOME, I still can't stand it. Where is the Cinnamon desktop spin?
> "While it's not impossible for journald'd logs to get corrupted, it's no more likely than most other files in the filesystem."
*cough* BULLSHIT! *cough*
- Laptop failure to resume from suspend = corrupted logs
- Power loss or hard off on systems = corrupted logs
- Too long a log retention = corrupted logs
From an amazon cloud server running RHEL7 last couple of weeks: /var/log/journal/2dd5724e1e1542fc9a4aa75nov26cc150/system@f0282a3cd24344648a0bbe3a801ead66-000000000001b5d4-0004cfd1dbb89d83.journal:191117416 (of 233118464, 82%).
File corruption detected at
journalctl absolutely needs to be improved to handle corrupt logs better... maybe something to repair them instead of switching to "clean" them?
lol.. since when is gnome, nevermind gnome 3 considered minimalist?
> "It's readily apparent you haven't even used Fedora in years."
Actually, I've been grumbling about it since Fedora 15, but I just never gave up grumbling about it because I am forced to use it for my work. I currently run F20 on a workstation for managing various systems both in the cloud and managed in a local series of VMWare clusters. I use Fedora because it helps me maintain a step ahead of the stuff coming "down the pipe" to Redhat.
> "but at least for enterprise distros like RHEL, standard syslogs are pretty much required"
Rsyslog is quite literally the ONLY reason several of my customers can even run RHEL7... It's amazing how many Developers/Engineers/Admins base their scripts, reports, monitoring and other functions off of log output.
In the end, I am just waiting for the market to "speak" as to whether they accept RHEL7... I am required to give it a year to know for sure. If I had my way though, I'd go back to Slackware or FreeBSD, but that's not my sole choice. As a closing, fvck deps... that is what I feel about anything from 0pointer.
Welcome to traditional BSD partition tables... Dedicated /var/log partitions ftw.
I'm seeding, go crazy! My connection is mostly idle seeding most of those torrents.
SystemD has a "journal" that is sensitive to unexpected shutdowns. The purpose of a journal is to protect from corruption. You'd think they would use a data structure that is safe from unexpected interruptions.
of course it doesn't. it has sensible maximum file sizes (both in terms of absolute size and percentage of the filesystem they're on).
it doesn't 'clean' anything. it switches to a new file, and whenever you read the journal, reads as much data as it can from the corrupted file.
Correct, it's not considered to be one of the Products. It's just Fedora.
What dependencies are these? You imply you've used recent versions of Fedora. But I can't think of any major, disruptive, 0pointer software dependencies that have been added in the latest release. systemd? Fedora 15. Pulseaudio? Fedora 14. firewalld? Fedora 18. (Firewalld can be removed easily; just yum remove it). No new 0pointer stuff here.
So I don't know what you're talking about here, and I suspect you don't either. Hoping to score some cheap points? You're a bit late with the hate.
Lennart doesn't have anything to do with firewalld, FWIW.
Installed since Alpha, using full time since Beta. No major issues - just lxdm user switch doesn't work. Hope it is fixed in final release.
Switched to lightdm, so not checked lxdm issue yet.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
Once its installed and running it's fine though.
And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute
SystemD has a "journal" that is sensitive to unexpected shutdowns. The purpose of a journal is to protect from corruption. You'd think they would use a data structure that is safe from unexpected interruptions.
Yep and thats why it's irresponsively for any server admin to not pipe journald output straigt into rsyslogd, and thats how it is with all of the "systemd" selling points.
Journald was introduces as a hack to workaround the rare edge case where systemd needs to write a log entry about a syslogd crash and sort of grew into the one true log system with 1/10 of the features and none of the reliance of more modern syslog deamons.
It's not that systemd is bad pr see it that is being sold by morons to morons as a cure for problems that either dont exist or is not fixed by systemd. Hopefully nobody outside of redhat decide to go all in and replace all of the old scaffolding that systemd pretend to make obsolete need but in practice dont replace by anything that works better.
And what is your point? Any file that is not written to the hard disk will be currupted on power loss. And, in case you didn't noticed, all files on a computer are binary.
And a human brain can make some sense out of a corrupted text logfile that no program ever could.
Note that PulseAudio and Jack serve different purposes. Use whichever one supports your needs at that moment. PA happily gets out of Jack's way when you need to do some real-time audio processing.
Jack serves all purposes except one really, low power consumption and massive/varying buffers.
Having multiple devices and multiples streams is an awesome feature that brings Linux a little bit more feature parity with Windows.
We've had that with jack long before pulseaudio was even a thought
There were serious design issues with pulseaudio when first released, I'd seen some of the discussions between poettering (pulse) and davis (jack) it was pretty clear that poettering was winging it without anywhere near as much of a clue about the various design considerations of it all.
Overall the project screamed of "not invented here", there were far better ways to go about the goals without dragging the community through that shitfest.
Now it is certainly a lot better than what it was, but that is not to say that there aren't better ways to go about it, or that the pain it made everyone endure was worth it.
Very funny post.
Please continue to post regularly
Your mind, apparently.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Have your really tried the latest installer it is fairly obvious what you have to do even if you are using LVM. Fedora 20 was a little confusing but it was logicaI and not that hard to get a handle on. With the Fedora 21 installer I doubt you could make it that much easier.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Why did you get rid of the "Everything" DVD image that Fedora 20 had?
The Desktop version of 21 is a live image. The Server version of 21 has no GUI.
What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?
Yes that is originally what I thought but once i selected the KDE spin and installed it along with the software I wanted I actually ended up with approx 4.1GB in "/" which is a huge reduction from my Fedora 20 DVD installation of 9GB. In addition it took me only about 90 minutes to actually download the "spin", create a bootable USB stick, install, customise, add additional software and update.
Fedora 20 actually took over 4 hours to do the same thing but without a reasonable speed network you would be have a minimal installation from the Live install. At least with the full DVD you can install allot more software although you would still need to update it at some stage..
Not sure how you would KickStart a Desktop machine although you could possible make a repo machine that contains the Fedora 21 packages which you could KickStart off. I actually have done this with Redhat servers so it should be similar with desktops.
There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
Solaris = /export/home
To this day, I still use a dedicated /var, /var/www, /var/lib/mysql or /var/log filesystem (depending on application) as it helps ensure that the fs doesn't get overrun by logs/data. The whole idea of a "one size fits all" lvm configured rootfs makes me shudder in horror.
"What if I want to KickStart a Desktop machine and don't want it to be a live image?"
Use Server. The Server network install image is the canonical thing to use for non-live installs of any kind, basically use it just as you'd use the netinst.iso in previous releases.
We're aware this sounds a bit weird, sorry about that. I can give you the *extremely* long version if you like, but the short version is that when it came to actually *implementing* the Product stuff there were the kinds of 'oh, so that doesn't quite work the way we thought it would' moments you'd expect in making such a significant change to an existing distro with existing release engineering tooling.
The upshot of one of them was that having Product-ish network install images turned out to be basically impossible to do, and after a while of banging our heads on trying to fix it we figured, you know what, we don't really need them anyway. Given how the practical implementation of the Products turned out for F21 at least, we can just have a single network install that can deploy anything, just like we did before.
Unfortunately by that point it wasn't really practical to try and set up some kind of new/old tree to build it out of and give it generic branding, so the story for F21 is: for anything like that, use Server. Use the 'Server' network install image for doing any kind of non-live deployment - the only 'Server' things about it are the visual branding and the fact that it *defaults* to the Server package set, but you can successfully deploy any Product or non-Product package set from it, it's functionally little different from the F20 generic network install image.
The Server/ tree on the mirrors is also the canonical source of things like the PXE boot kernel/initramfs, and the fedup upgrade initramfs.
Again, this obviously isn't optimal design, it's just kinda how things worked out in the F21 timeframe (there are some really boring release engineering considerations behind it all that I can explain if you're having trouble sleeping). For F22, all being well, it'll be cleaned up.
The 'Fedora' DVD wasn't actually an 'Everything' DVD, for the record. The repo tree called Everything has literally every package in it but is not 'composed', i.e. it doesn't have installer images and we can't build release media out of it. It still exists for F21. The Fedora repo tree in previous releases (it doesn't exist in F21) was what the DVD and netinst images were built out of. It didn't contain all packages, it contained the set of packages that was chosen to go on the DVD media - substantially fewer than are in the Everything tree.
The 'Fedora' generic DVD image was dropped as part of the whole Product-ization approach, basically the idea being there's a Product image or live spin for most use cases, and install via the Server netinst covers other cases. The specific case of 'I want to do an offline install with a custom package set that's covered by the old Fedora DVD package set but not the new Server DVD package set' is lost with this change, yep, we're sorry about that - ultimately to make a significant change like Products *something* had to be lost, and that's one of the things that was. The Fedora/ tree in the repos doesn't exist any more because its purpose was to build the Fedora DVD image.
Yes.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
It's not insurmountable. It's just a bad first impression.
Really? Maybe I give you my 10 years old hard disk with my old pictures. Maybe you can restore them with your super brain.
Joking besides, a binary format is more terse then a text format, meaning on a corruption less data is corrupted.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute