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Bank Security Software EULA Allows Spying On Users
An anonymous reader writes Trusteer Rapport, a software package whose installation is promoted by several major banks as an anti-fraud tool, has recently been acquired by IBM and has an updated EULA. Among other things, the new EULA includes this gem: "In addition, You authorize personnel of IBM, as Your Sponsoring Enterprise's data processor, to use the Program remotely to collect any files or other information from your computer that IBM security experts suspect may be related to malware or other malicious activity, or that may be associated with general Program malfunction." Welcome to the future...
Security scanning software that looks at all of my files? How will I be violated next? /sarcasm
Seriously, these privacy alarmists are kooks. They have no idea how IT works.
Does it? This could be the year of the Linux home banking if it does!
We're working with our internal legal folks to force this clause out of the EULA for all of our customers.
Just letting you guys know that some of us do give a shit. Can't say which bank though.
If a bank/CD/whatever other crazy thing requires you to install software to use it, take your business elsewhere.
I just read through the Bank of America Online Banking Service Agreement, and I don't see anything like this, nor is there any mention of IBM. Reading the Wikipedia page, it seems this is software used -inside- a bank.
I use a bank that likes to push this software. Everytime I log into the online banking you get an annoying "pop over" suggesting you install it, which I have to close each time. I've never installed it, and reading this very glad I didn't, I'm always suspicious of websites trying to push software as must have, even if it's banks doing it. My concern is banks moving towards making software like this mandatory, before they will allow you to log onto online banking. Go elswhere, well yes, for now, but if every bank insists on software like this? I've already heard banks can refuse to refund any fradulant transaction if they think you've not taken adequate protection. Would not installing the banks "recommended" software meen you haven't taken adequate protection? Yes I could go back to banking by phone (which is far less secure, of course) or in branches, but with more branches closing all the time, the latter probably won't be an option for much longer either.
Ben Dover. Papa has a surprise.
I've been uninstalling the crap out of that program every single time a customer walks in with it installed because I didn't know what it was and I didn't like how invasive it appeared. It's good to know I was doing them a favor.
time to create a script that downloads GIANT penis pics that shows this software and give it out freely
from the company that provided the data processing automation for the Holocaust.
IBM - tracking your Jews and other undesirables since 1933 (R)
We have had to deal with Trusteer here at work. It is utter krap and will fubar normal Windows installs. Essentially the only way to get this to work is to dedicate a VM to it. We are lucky we only have to use it occasionally.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
My bank often nags me to install Trusteer. I have done so on previous computers and it slows them to a crawl. Horrible software, and I have no idea if it even does anything useful. Now instead of installing it I use a different computer for banking (and not Windows), and just take care instead.
The problem is not technology. The problem is the lack of legal protection or extension of the bill of rights to your data on your own property.
To the guy suggesting we all run a virtual machine specifically to use online bank software. People shouldn't have to learn networking visualization because a clause buried in a EULA.
Check out this documentary: Terms and Conditions May Apply: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt20...
I work for satander and they will be buying this crap for millions just because is IBM's now.
What does IBM plan to do with the collected information? If malware is present, will IBM inform you of that fact, or simply record what type it is for their records? Will IBM remotely remove said malware and then expect payment from us for doing so? Hmmm.
humungous company!
Such automatic shrink wrap electronic contracts are illegal if used by dual citizens of the EU and/or Canada resident in the US, under the terms of the Data Treaties the US Senate signed.
Just saying.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I would be OK with this if the following was added:
"as Your Sponsoring Enterprise's data processor with your permission to use the Program remotely to collect any files or other information"
I'm actually surprised this got the green light from IBM Legal, IBM Sales and IBM Development for that product. This would NEVER fly with the product I work on. Most banks have executive sponsors in IBM (some VERY high up) and I have a feeling this will be fixed in less than a week. IBM is not stupid enough to risk alienating the market of a recent $1B acquisition. Looks like the Bluewashing of the acquisition is incomplete as this point ... poor folks for that product will probably catch hell for this as a result.
Posting as AC for obvious reasons.
It doesn't work that way.
Usually, the software developer requires that you accept the EULA in order to get the right to use the software. Does that mean that you accepted the EULA if you use the software? It doesn't.
It means that if you use the software, you _either_ accepted the EULA _or_ you committed an act of copyright infringement. However, IBM cannot know which one. Therefore, they cannot do things that would be illegal if you didn't accept the EULA, like accessing your files.
(Many EULAs contain terms that allow you only limited amount of copying. That's completely legal, because either you accept the EULA and accept that you cannot make unlimited copies, or you don't accept the EULA and cannot legally make any copies at all. This EULA is different).
How can they legally collect these files when users do not generally own the copyright nor the authorization to make copies of said files?
I think $1 billion fine per occurrence is reasonable
Why are so many companies infested with weasels that come up with things like this which they know are wrong and evil, that they only dare to do because they think that nobody will notice? How many weasels does your company employ?
Perhaps companies should make all employees undergo psychological testing to root out these pathological personality types and make sure their actions are monitored.
Does this ' Bank Security Software ' work on Microsoft Windows?
"Welcometo the future. A pity you are too late to stop it. No one can stop me now!"
Not everyone has this luxury, I understand, but surely 99% of the population can do without it?
How much convenience are most customers really getting over using in-bank kiosks and ATM machines in order to configure automated payments and the like.
Maybe it's just me, but I think banks being exposed to the Internet for what appears to be a small amount of convenience is just insane.
It _has_ to be secure.
This software is remove on sight for me.
Of 10-20 customers a day... 2-3 have problems caused by Trusteer's 'aggressive' antivirus protection.
Most people dont know what it is or where it came from.
All of them are relieved their computer is not actually garbage, after its removed and everything works again.
But I cant complain too loudly, tech support is my business after all
Rapport is snake oil, always has been, plenty of netsec talks on youtube that show you, the only reason banks want you to use it is because they spent a shitload of cash for it, go look at the trusteers staff, the entire board (12+ people) was 50yo ex-sales guys, and a single tech guy with no history in the sec community, the banks got defrauded by men in suits instead of jeans :D
malware writers laugh at rapport, it can be killed and removed without breaking a sweat
Who installs software because their bank recommends it? And does this yet convince people of why subscription software models are awful? Wait until you don't even get to choose whether to have this software scouring your files.
Sounds like the window program from the magic products moviemaker music maker and so on. They actually tell you in their terms and conditions that they collect personal information and share it with law-enforcement on request. You make a direct connection with their U.S. counterparts every time you use the Internet with any of their products installed. Apart from the pirated versions it as been stripped out. The corporations are going crazy they all want to spy.... but none of them want to be spied on.
I cannot believe that can hold any water. An EULA should describe how software is used. If they add paragraphs which have nothing to do with running their software, that feels like the wrong place. Theft of information is theft, no matter what the fine print of something nobody reads is saying. That bank better hires some good lawyers, otherwise common sense may prevail and the bank be accused of cybercrime the millisecond they touch their customers computers. According to their logic, those customers then have a right to fight back...
They better be warned: in my home directory is a file which clearly states that any file downloaded from that directory comes with a 100000$ fee...
> I've been uninstalling the crap out of that program every single time a customer walks in with it installed because I didn't know what it was
So all of these customers chose to install something, and without knowing what it was, you just took it upon yourself yo remove it. All this time you've been "uninstalling the crap out of it every single time", you didn't take 10 seconds to check Google and find out what it is?
You might be very, very bad at your job.
Why are banks pushing this crap in the first place? I can't see entities like Bank of America spending their own money on security stuff unless its going to cost them more money not to.
I get prompted to download this regularly by my bank. However I use Linux, and they don't produce a Linux version. No idea if they plan to do so either.
Strangely, I'm not that concerned. I would download and use if I used Windows though, even with the new EULA.
You never know what is enough unless you know what is more than enough. - Blake
I wonder who was the genius who consulted the banks on this one, but my recommendation is to fire him.
Out of a cannon.
From the top of your HQ building.
I do consultant work in the banking area. And the VERY LAST thing you need in this time and age is your customer to lose trust in you. It's the ONLY friggin' thing you still have, for crying out loud! And it's not like you're swimming in it in the first place, do your research (we did), the average customer places little trust in you. The only group of people that beats you in terms of untrustworthiness is politicians and other criminals.
The other end of the spectrum is God. Yes, people place more faith in their imaginary friend these days. THAT's how far we got.
Now, I know that you're not after their personal photos and their game cracks. Because you don't care about that shit. And yes, I have had that discussion with various banks and various security companies myself. But, and this is the critical part here, you HAVE TO keep your customer in the illusion that HE is in control. That HE gets to say if and whether you get any kind of data from him. That is CRITICAL!
This will create a huge stink now. When all you had to do it is add a simple dialogue saying "Oh, there's something fishy here, we found this file and it looks like malware. Your security and that of your money is our primary concern, and we have this partner here who is our security expert, they'd look at it FOR FREE, we foot the bill, since our business has always been to make banking a safe and secure biz. You ok with sending us that file?"
9 out of 10 people click yes on this anyway (run the phrase through your PR goons a few times, add a little fear mongering and it's 99 out of 100). Screw the 1% error margin, you get what you want and instead of now being seen as yet another power hungry, data grabbing leech you'd be the saint.
Fuck, how did you drop the ball on marketing? That's the ONLY thing you're still good at!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I tried 'Rapport' a year or so ago, and it managed to blue screen my Windows 7 PC, for the first time ever. I immediately uninstalled it and would never use it again.
I mean it's about your online banking, yes?
Remember to downmod this post
Oh, I checked. The website made it sound like it was some sort of antivirus program that no one had ever heard of. When asked about it, some customers didn't even know what it was or how it had gotten on their computers. It installed a filter driver for all network adapters and at least two machines weren't getting online at all because of it malfunctioning. All of the customers already had an antivirus solution installed. Rapport started popping up on computers in the era of fake security software.
You should probably get some detail before jumping to conclusions.
Mandiants managed defense does this as well. As did the Incident Response actions that any responders do when they try to understand *what* was xfilled. So, get over it. IBM is just limiting liability.
This 2011 Youtube video shows how to break this shitty software in about 5 minutes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EimZQgt7WPg
Okay, so the reason you removed it wasn't "because I didn't know what it was", you had far better reason than that. Cool.
Lots of apparent confusion here as to what Trusteer is and isn't.
Trusteer is sold as a "holistic" solution. I don't have much experience with what they do in the browser, but it's also built into mobile banking apps. It's an anti-fraud measure (which isn't inherently bad, we all like to keep our money), and as such it's always used in a customer-facing way, not inside a bank. Most customers using mobile banking apps will probably never see a Trusteer EULA, as this would be covered by the bank's own legal boilerplate. And nobody ever reads these...
Not as bad as you've been shown to be as a liar and wannabe like you raymorris http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...