Google Closing Engineering Office In Russia

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Google Closing Engineering Office In Russia

Posted by Soulskill on Friday December 12, 2014 @01:49AM from the if-you-can't-stand-the-bears-get-out-of-the-kitchen dept.

An anonymous reader writes: The Wall Street Journal reports (paywalled) that Google is closing its engineering office in Russia. This follows ever-increasing crackdowns from the Russian government over internet freedoms, and intrusive data-handling requirements on internet companies. "[A] new law that takes effect next year requires information on Russian citizens to be stored in data centers in Russia. The law will also penalize Web firms for infringing on personal data rules in the country. Another law passed earlier this year requires bloggers with 3,000 or more daily readers to register with the government and provide their home address. The ruling prevents these bloggers from using foul language and forbids them from spreading false information."

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False information? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 01:55 · Score: 0

AKA The Truth.
1. Re:False information? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:03 · Score: 0
  
  You can't handle the truth!
2. Re: False information? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
  We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
3. Re: False information? by CohibaVancouver · 2014-12-12 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  Did you order the Code Red?
4. Re: False information? by mwehle · 2014-12-12 05:17 · Score: 1
  
  Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns.
  I remember breaking into laughter several times when watching Nicholson and Moore praise the men on the walls without mentioning that those walls are in someone else's country. Oh, the glory of being an occupying power maintaining an empire!
  
  --
  Wir sind geboren, um frei zu sein - Rio Reiser
50 engineers by Dan+East · 2014-12-12 01:57 · Score: 5, Interesting

According to an article at ZDNet, the office Google is closing has 50 engineers, and they've been offered positions in offices outside of Russia. Adobe already closed offices in Russia earlier this year, for likely the same reason.
http://www.zdnet.com/article/g...

--
Better known as 318230.
1. Re:50 engineers by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:25 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Yeah, who do they think they are? America?
2. Re:50 engineers by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:06 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  You are aware, of course, that the US does a significant amount of international trade... Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_trade
  Largest countries by international trade:
  1 - China (largest overall, 43% of GDP)
  2 - USA (second largest overall, 23% of GDP)
  3 - Germany (71% of GDP)
  4 - Japan (31.6% of GDP)
  5 - Netherlands (147% of GDP)
  No one in the US is saying "We don't need the world!". We import nearly 20% of our food, for God's sake!
  (http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/international-markets-trade/us-agricultural-trade/import-share-of-consumption.aspx)
3. Re:50 engineers by myowntrueself · 2014-12-12 04:21 · Score: 0
  
  You are aware, of course, that the US does a significant amount of international trade... Right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I...
  Largest countries by international trade:
  1 - China (largest overall, 43% of GDP)
  2 - USA (second largest overall, 23% of GDP)
  3 - Germany (71% of GDP)
  4 - Japan (31.6% of GDP)
  5 - Netherlands (147% of GDP)
  No one in the US is saying "We don't need the world!". We import nearly 20% of our food, for God's sake!
  (http://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/international-markets-trade/us-agricultural-trade/import-share-of-consumption.aspx)
  How can Netherlands get more than 100% of its GDP from trade? You may as well say that income from trade accounts for 1.47x its GDP which makes it clear how absurd the statement is.
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
4. Re:50 engineers by DrXym · 2014-12-12 04:50 · Score: 1
  
  The next thing that will happen is Russia will copy China / Iran and throw a massive firewall around the entire country which blocks sites, restricts VPNs and does its utmost to stop people from hearing what is going on in their own country.
5. Re:50 engineers by Kagato · 2014-12-12 04:51 · Score: 2
  
  I can't blame them. If you have 50 engineers in Russia with access to the network then you have a set of employees that can be leveraged to give access and data to the FSB. It's just too much risk for the employees, the company and the customers.
6. Re:50 engineers by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:44 · Score: 0
  
  Or it was a typo (14% or 17%) and you're a douchebag...
7. Re:50 engineers by vux984 · 2014-12-12 07:01 · Score: 1
  
  How can Netherlands get more than 100% of its GDP from trade? You may as well say that income from trade accounts for 1.47x its GDP which makes it clear how absurd the statement is.
  Or you could look at the link and then look up nomimal GDP vs PPP GDP and you'll have your answer.
8. Re:50 engineers by tjb · 2014-12-12 10:24 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  GDP = Consumption + Governmentspending + eXport - iMport
  Exports and imports can both be many multiples of your GDP as long as they cancel themselves out. This is very common in small, open economies that are heavily reliant on trade.
9. Re:50 engineers by myowntrueself · 2014-12-12 10:35 · Score: 1
  
  GDP = Consumption + Governmentspending + eXport - iMport
  Exports and imports can both be many multiples of your GDP as long as they cancel themselves out. This is very common in small, open economies that are heavily reliant on trade.
  Thank you!
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
10. Re:50 engineers by manu0601 · 2014-12-12 15:18 · Score: 2
  
  How can Netherlands get more than 100% of its GDP from trade?
  
  Wild guess: Netherlands' ports are a major entry to the EU market. Every good that comes in by the ports then goes to another country is accounted as Netherlands trade.
11. Re:50 engineers by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-13 16:43 · Score: 0
  
  Cause:
  >They're requiring us to do less tracking and surveillance on their citizens! They want us to follow their laws when dealing with their own citizens, and they're a large enough country to warrant that we obey them!
  Effect:
  >They're evil! Great Firewall of Russia 2015! Repression of Americans by Russia!
  The blogger law is also active in the US, only with a higher bar for "mass media" in proportion to the population, and with more regulations as your audience grows. Most people don't realize it though, because it's pretty rare that people know these sorts of things and register with the government in any country.
Obligatory Russian reversal by Marginal+Coward · 2014-12-12 02:05 · Score: 2

In America, you bloggers are disputin' registering.
In Russia, dis Putin is registering you bloggers!
1. Re:Obligatory Russian reversal by drinkypoo · 2014-12-12 02:10 · Score: 2
  
  "[A] new law that takes effect next year requires information on Russian citizens to be stored in data centers in Russia.
  
  In Soviet Russia, Office is Engineering you.
  
  --
  "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Growing Isolation by tiberus · 2014-12-12 02:11 · Score: 1, Interesting

I find this rather disturbing in light of Russia's Growing Isolation. I'm left to wonder if Russia is 'just being Russia' or if these laws are being passed with the intent of gently nudging companies like Google and Adobe out of the country. Russia's recent actions in Ukraine have left me with a very Hitleresk taste.
1. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:12 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  ... why not stalinesque? you know putin's actual role model?
2. Re:Growing Isolation by Marginal+Coward · 2014-12-12 02:22 · Score: 1, Interesting
  
  Luckily, Kaspersky is based in Moscow, so that's one high-tech business that's likely to continue operating in Russia, regardless of Russian isolation.
  I'm sure Putin appreciates having a firm that is dedicated to protecting the world's computers form malware located right handy there in the Russian capital. I recently switched from Kaspersky to another product when a Russian friend of mine pointed out the obvious fact that an anti-malware product that's popular worldwide could be quite a dangerous thing in the hands of a dictator.
3. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonanonaon · 2014-12-12 02:24 · Score: 1, Insightful
  
  What Russian actions in Ukraine?
  -The relief convoys sent to aid the molested masses left in the wake of the actual self-described Nazi thugs which seized the elected government and drove it into the ground?
  Or their make-believe invasion/s which Washington insists took place, but of which there is zero evidence? (If Russia decided to invade, Ukraine would be under Russian rule. Seems simple enough. Since that is not the case, there was no invasion.)
  Careful what you read; the air is thick, thick, thick with psychopathic lies from an increasingly desperate Western elite. The US descent is picking up speed and the rats are getting squirrelly. Or the squirrels are getting ratty.
  My take is that Putin's KGB days left him well aware of the CIA regime change tactics, and how they start with the infiltration and propagandizing of a target population by agents seeking to destabilze a country from within. If all your people are constantly being told that their government is evil and that they should rise up against it... Works like a charm unless you kill it at the bud. And what sane country would want a giant NSA organ working in their territory collecting data on their citizens?
4. Re:Growing Isolation by Rei · 2014-12-12 02:24 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I think people are all too quick to credit every action Putin takes as being part of some grant overarching plan. Does one think his grand overarching plan included the Ruble falling 40% and the economy solidly on path to contraction after a bunch of failed poorly thought-out attempts to bolster them while turning Ukraine from a militarily-incompetent country with a largely very pro-Russian population into a Russia-hating country full of veterans and causing its neighbors to start clamouring for (and in some cases, getting) NATO bases that NATO had previously been reluctant to do?
  Putin's not some brilliant chessmaster pulling all the strings, but nor is he some sort of bumbling fool. He's just a person. He's made some moves in the past that have turned out to be excellent strategically. He's also made a number of blunders. But he's now committed to this path, so he has to walk it wherever it takes him. Given his style, he'll probably keep doubling down.
  
  --
  "We consider that six courts and an asylum claim are a rather odd way of returning to Sweden within a month."
5. Re:Growing Isolation by Marginal+Coward · 2014-12-12 02:32 · Score: 2
  
  Given his style, he'll probably keep doubling down.
  Let's hope so. That's a sure formula for winning in Vegas.
6. Re:Growing Isolation by oh_my_080980980 · 2014-12-12 02:39 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Putin's balls are dangling from your chin....
7. Re: Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:40 · Score: 0
  
  UZze linix u coWard
8. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:41 · Score: 0
  
  That's why the price of oil has tumbled. It's collusion to drive Russia further into chaos.
9. Re:Growing Isolation by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2014-12-12 02:44 · Score: 1
  
  I'm definitely no Russia wonk; but their activity with respect to the internet looks fairly similar to the Chinese playbook: a mixture of making domestic surveillance easier(mass surveillance is much more practical if you can just subpoena the results, rather than tap the endpoints, so having Russians using American services hosted in places where getting the good stuff is either impossible or at least impossible to do silently isn't desirable for the local authorities) and quasi-mercantilist support for (Putin-friendly) local businesses. American internet companies(though not ISPs) have some very potent offerings compared to many of their international competitors(lest you accuse me of flag-waving jingoism, those offerings are often built with good old American know-how provided by talented foreigners that we attract or buy out; but the products are still good and still owned by American companies), if you wish to support local businesses(for a mixture of economic reasons, cultural considerations, and surveillance purposes); basically any dicking-with-foreigners that you can get away with is to your advantage.
  
  In relatively minor ways, even mostly-friendly European states do it(eg. mandates and subsidies to preserve local, local-language film production vs. Hollywood, various 'Google Tax' initiatives designed to give cover to incumbent publishers with pitiful or nonexistent internet presence). The Chinese are more aggressive and more experienced(the various mandatory 'joint ventures' that end up being tech transfers, using the Great Firewall to mess with external services and make internal services more reliable by comparison, etc.)
  
  The Russians will likely have a harder time of it because they aren't populous enough, and on an economic upswing, to be treated as an 'absolutely must expand into this market, even if the terms are blatantly unfair!'; but their strategy looks fairly similar: mess with the foreigners enough to improve the prospects of local companies, move more Russian internet activity onto servers in Russia that can easily be subpoenaed or equivalent, add a variety of obnoxious measures that can then be used as 'carrots' in diplomacy (we'll totally remove the restrictions on some of your major internet companies that we just pass if you overlook our activities in X!".
  
  It's not exactly nice, and Putin isn't dumb, so I wouldn't just dismiss it; but it looks like a fairly familiar playbook.
10. Re: Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:44 · Score: 0
  
  From what I've heard, Linus Torvalds is undoubtedly brighter than Putin, but no less of a dictator...
11. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:00 · Score: 0
  
  What I don't understand is, why did NATO forces shoot down MH17?
  Was that in order to increase the pressure on President Putin?
12. Re:Growing Isolation by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · 2014-12-12 03:10 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Your comments are pretty astute. As someone who has actually spent a lot of time in the past decade in Ukraine, and mostly in the Russian speaking parts where the people may see themselves with a strong Russian identity, I have some insight into this. Basically living in the Soviet Union just ruined these people to an extent that it may take many decades or even centuries to fix. The amount of dishonesty and ethical shortcuts required to get by in such a system is something we in the West are just not used to. And even today in the parts of the old USSR that are not in the EU, which is 12 of the 15 former Soviet republics, corruption is just a normal way of life. All this stuff has led to a situation where the people don't really plan long term. In general they are "carpe diem" types to an extreme, often an illogical extreme. As an example, if you were to offer the average Russian a choice between giving them 1000 US dollars today, no strings attached, or giving them 10000 US dollars in 6 months, no strings attached, they'll take the 1000 now. Their mentality is that they may be dead in 6 months or you may be dead in 6 months and unable to give it to them or something unforeseen may happen in the future, so they are really short term planners in the extreme. Putin seems to plan a bit more long term than on average, but I am pretty sure that his plans are far more short-sighted than such planning would be in the West or even China where their culture encourages a very long term view of things. The obvious problem of this is that when things don't go as you expect, you don't really have a plan for that, so I expect he'll double down on the anti-western sentiment and the non-obvious repression like making bloggers identify themselves and saying they need to keep posts clean as a cover for monitoring for subversive posts against the government.
13. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  And considering that McAfee and Symantec have been named in regards to the NSA scandal, Kaspersky seems to be an even better option. All USA products and services are tainted.
14. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Because Stalin fought the far right, whereas Putin is in bed with the far right:
  http://uk.businessinsider.com/...
15. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  looks fairly similar to the Chinese [...] subpoena the results, rather than tap the endpoints, so having Russians using American services hosted in places where getting the good stuff is either impossible or at least impossible to do silently isn't desirable
  I'm waiting for the US law that "no American citizen may interact with a site in a data-embargoed country," meaning one which doesn't eagerly comply with all US subpoenas and terrorism-letters. Maybe then Google will announce closing its US engineering offices.
16. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  I love this. Instead of attacking the message you're attacking the messenger. The perfectly orchestrated selective reporting of the Ukraine crisis has done its job. Bravo for swallowing your oligarchy's own propaganda without spilling a drop.
17. Re:Growing Isolation by Blue+Stone · 2014-12-12 03:53 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  I feel what you say is entirely true, and yet am compelled to add ...
  NSA (mass surveillance proven), CIA (torture, kidnapping, coups against democratic countries, assasinations, propaganda, funding of insurgents/terrorists/narco terrorists proven), America being instrumental in creating Al Qaeda, ISIS, etc (blowback) and ... Microsoft, Google, Apple, all the American tech companies who have a cosy relationship with their government.
  At a certain point the difference between Russia under Putin and America under any number of presidents is largely that the USA has a more polished public relations strategy.
  
  --
  Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
18. Re:Growing Isolation by avgapon · 2014-12-12 04:05 · Score: 1
  
  I think that oil prices above $100 made Putin and many Russians dizzy. I think that Russian government wouldn't do many things it did if not for all the easy money.
19. Re:Growing Isolation by halivar · 2014-12-12 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  You're trying to sound like the enlightened, reasonable one while sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "LA LA LA LA LA NOT LISTENING!" You should not be surprised when some people respond with the intellectual gravity it deserves.
20. Re:Growing Isolation by MisterSquid · 2014-12-12 04:08 · Score: 2
  
  That's why the price of oil has tumbled. It's collusion to drive Russia further into chaos.
  That's why the price of oil has tumbled. It's collusion to drive Russia further into chaos.
  It's not collusion; it's strategic economic sanction using market manipulation.
  Non-OPEC oil-producing nations have increased their oil production thereby glutting the market. Once the oil market tumbled, Russia's bid to annex Ukraine to secure oil supply not only became moot. It also became a liability.
  Now that the fallen Russian economy is forecast to fall even further, Putin's political machine is trying to counter the historical record provided by international journalism with Russia's homegrown Internet propaganda machine, which is part of the reason Google is being forced out of Russia.
  That is, at the same time Russia ramps its efforts to pollute the historical record with Internet trolls, it needs to eject the (mostly, ha!) politically neutral search results provided by Western Internet companies such as Google.
  
  --
  blog
21. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:23 · Score: 0
  
  Not listening to what? The carefully omitted facts in North American media that are strangely present in Europe and Asia? Not listening to the english-language filter bubble surrounding the issue? The absolutist painting of USA as the angel and Russia as the devil? Or the hypocritical doublethink when talking about actions performed by both sides?
  I do plenty of listening. I also do plenty of researching.
22. Re:Growing Isolation by Marginal+Coward · 2014-12-12 04:33 · Score: 1
  
  I figured such points would be made. Anyway, I don't see any advantage in using a security product from a country that is increasingly at odds with my own. Russian folks (that is, the ones who still live there, unlike my friend) may feel the same way about the American companies.
  My Russian friend makes the point that everybody thinks they're the good guy, and that everybody else is the bad guy. So in reality, maybe everybody is the bad guy. Oh, except that my friend has many positive things to say about Putin and even Stalin. Go figure.
  One striking and objective difference between Us and Them is that Them has a dictator whereas Us has a lame duck. I much prefer the lame duck system, regardless of the particular lame duck involved. The lame duck system also saves folks like Mussolini and Gaddafi the indignity of having their corpses mutilated after their term expires.
23. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Not listening to what? The carefully omitted facts in North American media that are strangely present in Europe and Asia? Not listening to the english-language filter bubble surrounding the issue? The absolutist painting of USA as the angel and Russia as the devil? Or the hypocritical doublethink when talking about actions performed by both sides?
  During communism at least Russians realized that all the information they were fed by various government controlled press sources was pure propaganda. I wonder how long it will take you to figure it out this time.
24. Re:Growing Isolation by towermac · 2014-12-12 05:06 · Score: 1
  
  "self-described Nazi thugs which seized the elected government and drove it into the ground"
  Anybody who was watching it unfold knows that is simply not true. The government abandoned their posts, and then your man Yanukovych fled like a pussy. It doesn't matter what Washington said, we were all watching on live video. The fact that the CIA also has plots and goals is largely irrelevant.
  But I actually agree that Crimea belongs to Russia (unless you want to discuss giving it back to Turkey). While Ukraine and Russia were practically the same country it didn't much matter. When Ukrainians wanted some distance, Russia should have just said fine, we'll take back Crimea, and paid for it. Not the whole value of course, but some compensation for infrastructure and lost assets would have been in order. Given that Ukraine was/is deeply indebted to Russia, it seems a deal could have been stuck easily.
  Putin obviously has other goals...
25. Re:Growing Isolation by Kagato · 2014-12-12 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  We are quite lucky that Russia didn't do what they should have done with the oil money. Create a massive sovereign wealth fund. Norway has the largest that's heading towards a trillion dollars. China is over a Trillion if you combine funds controlled by various entities. Russia on the the other hand has a couple very modest funds (under $100bn).
  Why are we lucky? Because Russia has been looking for a way to economically hurt the United States for a very long time. When the financial market crashed in 2008 in the wake of the housing crisis Russia approached China with a plan to dump US currency and bonds. The plan would have created a sell off that would have plummeted the value of the dollar, created hyperinflation and crushing the US economy. Luckily China has no desire to mess with a very beneficial trading relationship and we were able to emerge from the worst parts of the recession.
  If Russia had a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund they could very easily hurt the US companies by triggering sell offs.
26. Re: Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:28 · Score: 0
  
  If a talent for herding cats while building a better cat box is being a dictator, Linus should wear the moniker proudly.
27. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:32 · Score: 0
  
  Kaspersky is for all practical purposes an agency of the GRU (not the FSB). You're welcome.
28. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:44 · Score: 0
  
  Thank you for supporting my point.
29. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:48 · Score: 0
  
  I assume that by "Europe and Asia" you mean Russia and China? Because the reporting in Europe is definitely clear about that Russia is the main instigator in the conflict. The 'facts' you speak of come only from Putin-controlled sources, you realize that don't you?
30. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:52 · Score: 0
  
  The same could be said of Americans, except the control is by Wall Street and their media lackeys.
31. Re:Growing Isolation by CaptainDork · 2014-12-12 05:53 · Score: 1
  
  Look at China and parts of Europe. Internet isolationism is predictable along with personal encryption, false identities, and the increased reliance on old, known technologies like landlines, faxes, credit card impression machines, and snail mail.
  The Internet is not performing up to expectations and people are considering options.
  
  --
  It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
32. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:53 · Score: 0
  
  I'm sick and tired of hearing this dumb comparison. You morons don't know what a dictator is, nor what a democracy is for that matter.
  Democracy are not perfect, but there is information, public debate, and slowly it's improving (if you think the US was more democratic in the past, you are a moronic ignoramus.
  Dictatorships are bad, like really bad. If you think the US is bad, well that's peanuts compared to a dictatorship, and I'm not even talking about the more extreme cases like in the prison state North Korea.
  Do everybody a favor and stop talking about what you don't know. And if you disagree, go live in a fucking dictatorship, and be sure to keep on criticize the local government, they like that, see you in hell.
33. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:56 · Score: 0
  
  No idea if you're serious, but thanks for the laugh.
34. Re:Growing Isolation by tiberus · 2014-12-12 06:04 · Score: 1
  
  It was meant to be a comparison between Hitler's actions leading up to WWII and not a reference to Putin's role model. Prior to WWII a number of actions were taken to Hitler that were, in some ways, similarly responded to as Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
35. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:13 · Score: 0
  
  No, I mean french and german reporting, as well as Al-Jazeera and others. Russia Today and CNN are two sides of the same coin. Reading news from more neutral sources would enlighten you to the fact that both sides in the conflict are not what they seem.
36. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:36 · Score: 0
  
  America's recent actions in *name a place* have left me with a very Hitleresk taste. FTFY
37. Re:Growing Isolation by halivar · 2014-12-12 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah, two sides of the same coin, eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new...
  Our media is allowed to criticize the government.
38. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:43 · Score: 0
  
  So how come I have to come to Slashdot to learn the truth about Edward Snowden, Julian Assange/Wikileaks, the covert financing of Syrian rebels that ended up arming ISIS, and many many other malicious actions by the US government?
  A CNN reporter that says too much gets demoted to the mailroom. Granted, it's more civilized, but the end effect is the same.
39. Re:Growing Isolation by Blue+Stone · 2014-12-12 06:52 · Score: 1
  
  Again, I find myself agreeing with you largely, and would merely add that the President is mostly a figurehead (albeit one with *some* clout) and there are a body of people behind the scenes, who are not elected that run the show. And that includes corporate and wealthy power outside but with access. The US isn't a dictatorship, but the people who control what happens are just as unconcerned with the little people as any dictator.
  
  --
  Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
40. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 08:39 · Score: 0
  
  And by "neutral sources" you mean those that display obviously photoshopped images of Ukrainean fighter jets downing a plane that is not even a Boing 777.
41. Re:Growing Isolation by aaaaaaargh! · 2014-12-12 08:40 · Score: 1
  
  Funny, I've got all that information from the New York Times.
42. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonanonaon · 2014-12-12 08:42 · Score: 1
  
  What Russian actions in Ukraine?
  -The relief convoys sent to aid the molested masses left in the wake of the actual self-described Nazi thugs which seized the elected government and drove it into the ground?
  Or their make-believe invasion/s which Washington insists took place, but of which there is zero evidence? (If Russia decided to invade, Ukraine would be under Russian rule. Seems simple enough. Since that is not the case, there was no invasion.)
  Careful what you read; the air is thick, thick, thick with psychopathic lies from an increasingly desperate Western elite. The US descent is picking up speed and the rats are getting squirrelly. Or the squirrels are getting ratty.
  My take is that Putin's KGB days left him well aware of the CIA regime change tactics, and how they start with the infiltration and propagandizing of a target population by agents seeking to destabilze a country from within. If all your people are constantly being told that their government is evil and that they should rise up against it... Works like a charm unless you kill it at the bud. And what sane country would want a giant NSA organ working in their territory collecting data on their citizens?
  Wow. The above was relegated to Flamebait, huh?
  We're so screwed. -That was one of the most potently true things written on this whole thread and, bam! Flamebait. People still haven't worked out when they're being hit with propaganda. How many of you were taken in by the Saddam/Iraq con job? Fool me once, right?
  General hint: If the U.S. Government is pushing an idea from the top level, it is a LIE. It is ALWAYS a lie. -Find one instance where it has not been a lie. (Well, leaving out JFK, of course. But they murdered him.)
  That joke about politician's lips moving? Not really so funny.
43. Re:Growing Isolation by DNS-and-BIND · 2014-12-12 08:49 · Score: 0
  
  You mention Putin but never once mention CIA, NSA, Microsoft, Google, Apple, IRS, or any American influences at all, sadly. Do you really think that the Russians can do their own thing without this influence? Blame the source, not the symptom!
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
44. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 09:02 · Score: 0
  
  Haha the "Ruble" as you spell it fell something like 70% thank God, I think oil powers deserve to be exposed to their revenues drying up especially the common militant dictatorship kind.
45. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 09:33 · Score: 0
  
  Putin is much closer to Hitler than to Stalin.
  Stalin pushed for ideology - and internationalism was a way to spread communism and ideology - he allowed small Byelorussian and Ukrainian republics so
  later Poland could be partitioned and included in the system.
  Putin is clearly nationalistic - Russia this, Russians that - this is NAtional SocialISM = NASISM
46. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  So an employee being given a work assignment by her employer, which she does not like, is an act of oppression. Yet harassment of Glenn Greenwald and related people, combined with the forced destruction of their hard drives is nothing to worry about?
47. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 09:40 · Score: 0
  
  There is one big difference though.
  China is not shutting down passenger planes and not invading neighboring countries (Georgia, Ukraine and small army in Moldova)
48. Re:Growing Isolation by 3h · 2014-12-12 10:33 · Score: 2
  
  This is cute :) It's like five-year-old thinks that he's "gangsta".
  Such comparison between USA and Russia can only be made if you are really ignorant about what goes on in Russia.
49. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonanonaon · 2014-12-12 14:33 · Score: 1
  
  Anybody who was watching it unfold knows that is simply not true. The government abandoned their posts, and then your man Yanukovych fled like a pussy. It doesn't matter what Washington said, we were all watching on live video. The fact that the CIA also has plots and goals is largely irrelevant.
  It kind of simply IS true, though.
  Ukraine is a complete disaster. They have worse infrastructure at the moment than freaking Palestine, they're in debt up to their eyeballs and there are house-to-house murders of civilians. I think that qualifies as "Driven into the ground".
  Remember that video of the thugs actually bullying and pushing around the former minister in charge of media, mafia style? How low brow can a government get?
  The whole thing struck me as a naked case of Western proxy regime change in all its ugly glory. -Well, obviously not naked enough, since people can't seem to recognize what happened. But I supposed that's excusable given the crap coverage our MSM gives this sort of thing. It takes a lot of work to find out what's really happening today.
  Before all of this began, I couldn't care for Putin or Russia one way or the other, but the facts of the matter indicate that one pays attention to reality. If reality pointed the other way, I'd say things differently, (and probably be attacked for that also.)
  The problem is that people en masse always tend to be dupes, to buy the lies even after the liars have been repeatedly exposed, not just in their lies, but in their basic nature which leads to them lying. Why the hell are people so incapable of basic behavioral pattern recognition???
  Whatever. I stand ready to be modded into insignificance by the zombie hoard. At least I'm going down with my brain intact.
50. Re:Growing Isolation by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · 2014-12-13 12:19 · Score: 1
  
  Oh, I'd be the last to argue for Putin being a nice guy, or not having KGB-filled visions of a rebuilt Soviet Empire; my point was just about the economic/intelligence strategy at play, though.
  
  As best I can see, the treatment of foreign web companies is a somewhat less polished version of the Chinese one(and, given how closely tied the economy and state budget are to oil prices, probably something they'd be wise to turn into a more polished version of the Chinese model sooner rather than later).
  
  In military terms, Russia is more saber and less rattle than China(China does have some questionably-acquired territories and disputed islands and things; but all are either old enough that only idealistic college students still talk about them, or new; but haven't gone hot), with a greater willingness to actively invade nearbye former soviet republics; but somewhat less enthusiasm for tech demos of mysteriously-similar-but-cheaper-and-possibly-actually-on-time next-gen weapons systems.
51. Re:Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-13 16:47 · Score: 0
  
  I believe it was the New York Times or Time magazine that said Kaspersky was one of the most dangerous men in the world, comparing him to a terrorist.
  By the way, do you think that your American software is safer, or are you going with Euro-AVG? Because if you think the government of Russia is scary, imagine what people who are actually able to kill you with drones or police will be able to do -- although, with regards to the fact they're probably spying on you anyway, maybe it's probably best to minimize the amount of governments on your PC.
Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:11 · Score: 0

If you ever watch RT (TV) you will see continuous false information and it is managed by Putin personally.
1. Re:Propaganda by CohibaVancouver · 2014-12-12 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  If you ever watch CNN (TV) you will see continuous false information and it is managed by The Whitehouse personally.
  You really telling me that programs like Fareed Zakaria's GPS are 'false information managed by the White House?'
  
  Have you even watched a few episodes?
  
  Saying things like this completely blow your credibility.
A cold war is brewing... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:11 · Score: 0

Russians are getting poorer and angrier. Nothing fixes an economy like a war.
1. Re:A cold war is brewing... by jfdavis668 · 2014-12-12 02:19 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  Russian wars in 1905 and 1914 lead directly to revolutions, not profits.
2. Re:A cold war is brewing... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 10:17 · Score: 0
  
  Revolution is profit, for a particular subset of population directly interested in one
What about the states? by epyT-R · 2014-12-12 02:13 · Score: 2, Interesting

There are fundamental abuses of rights here too. Is google going to shut down here as well? Google regularly participates in illegal spying programs.
1. Re:What about the states? by jfdavis668 · 2014-12-12 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  I think you are referring to perfectly legal spying programs that people don't like.
2. Re:What about the states? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:32 · Score: 0
  
  Grandparent explicitly writes about the illegal spying programs.
3. Re:What about the states? by oh_my_080980980 · 2014-12-12 02:41 · Score: 2
  
  Right because the U.S. is..."Russia, alongside China, is known for stringent censorship laws designed to control the Internet activity of the general public and corporations. " Try again Potsy.
4. Re:What about the states? by jfdavis668 · 2014-12-12 03:41 · Score: 1
  
  Which illegal ones are you referring to?
5. Re:What about the states? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 20:51 · Score: 0
  
  Uh no, he's referring to perfectly ILLEGAL spying programs which violate the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, neither of which all too many "patriotic Americans" give a damn about anymore.
6. Re:What about the states? by epyT-R · 2014-12-12 21:26 · Score: 1
  
  The law is whatever the tyrant wants it to be. That doesn't make it right.
7. Re:What about the states? by epyT-R · 2014-12-12 21:27 · Score: 1
  
  Essentially, yes. Except that here, the government and corporations do each others' dirty work to get around the law and get what they want at public expense.
8. Re:What about the states? by epyT-R · 2014-12-12 21:31 · Score: 1
  
  They kill everyone. It just doesn't make the news if the person's white.
so let me get this straight... by nimbius · 2014-12-12 02:14 · Score: 4, Insightful

Google is leaving russia due to data security and intrusive legislation that harms the internet, but sees no problem maintaining an office in the United States, where the government has created secret courts to warrantlessly wiretap what ostensibly amounts to the entire country. Google is just fine with a corporate office in a country that uses state sponsored terrorism and maintains a torture prison. Its Fine with opening offices in a country that jailed Chelsea Manning for whistleblowing or rather spreading "false information" and subsequently ensured 2 years of her forcible detention under suicide watch stripped nude and prevented from sleeping. Google has no problem with a country that runs secret torture prisons and "targeted killings." but whenever Russia passes legislation to force Internet sites that store the personal data of Russian citizens to do so inside the country, it closes shop because it doesnt want to maintain a russian datacenter? or rather is it because in America its not a requirement thanks to a rendition network that just takes people and servers regardless of the country.

--
Good people go to bed earlier.
1. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:28 · Score: 0
  
  Its Fine with opening offices in a country that jailed Chelsea Manning for whistleblowing or rather spreading "false information" and subsequently ensured 2 years of her forcible detention under suicide watch stripped nude and prevented from sleeping.
  
  You lost credibility right there on downplaying what Bradly Manning did.
2. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:36 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  I'd guess this has nothing to do with liberties or morals. Where (apart from the summary and TFA's opinionated texts) did you read that? "Google could not be immediately reached for comment." it says, at least outside of the paywall.
  The Russian law changed. If Google stores personal data of Russians, it must now be done in Russia.
  Therefore, Google has two options. Open a datacenter to store this data in Russia, or close their Russian subsidiary, which would be breaking this new law.
  Google chose the latter, probably because it is cheaper & easier.
3. Re:so let me get this straight... by Yoda222 · 2014-12-12 02:39 · Score: 1
  
  If you don't use the real name of Chelsea Manning, you could at least try to write her former name correctly.
4. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:06 · Score: 0
  
  Agreed. Nothing but blatant lies and propaganda everywhere. Choose your poison (or your football team or your religion or whatever makes you feel cozy.)
5. Re:so let me get this straight... by c · 2014-12-12 03:09 · Score: 2
  
  Google is leaving russia due to data security and intrusive legislation that harms the internet, but sees no problem maintaining an office in the United States
  Well, there's a substantial practical difference between closing a branch office of 50 employees and shutting down your corporate HQ and main data center.
  But, more importantly, the consequences of calling out the US government for bad behaviour is tame compared to how Putin handles corporate dissent.
  
  --
  Log in or piss off.
6. Re:so let me get this straight... by quantaman · 2014-12-12 03:52 · Score: 1
  
  Google is leaving russia due to data security and intrusive legislation that harms the internet, but sees no problem maintaining an office in the United States, where the government has created secret courts to warrantlessly wiretap what ostensibly amounts to the entire country. Google is just fine with a corporate office in a country that uses state sponsored terrorism and maintains a torture prison. Its Fine with opening offices in a country that jailed Chelsea Manning for whistleblowing or rather spreading "false information" and subsequently ensured 2 years of her forcible detention under suicide watch stripped nude and prevented from sleeping. Google has no problem with a country that runs secret torture prisons and "targeted killings." but whenever Russia passes legislation to force Internet sites that store the personal data of Russian citizens to do so inside the country, it closes shop because it doesnt want to maintain a russian datacenter? or rather is it because in America its not a requirement thanks to a rendition network that just takes people and servers regardless of the country.
  For every thing Russia does you can pull up something from the US that sounds similarly bad unless you go into some nuanced detail.
  But there's one big difference. In the US you have the luxury of this stuff being debated in government, in the media, on talk radio, on the Internet, and in person. Active censorship or oppression of these discussions is extremely rare.
  Do you think you could do the same in Russia?
  I'm not saying the US is great, it's done, and continues to do, some really awful things. But the worst things done by the US government are absolutely routine in Russia.
  
  --
  I stole this Sig
7. Re: so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:22 · Score: 1
  
  Does not matter. He/she/it killed a lot of people by the action of handing over secret documents, with people's names and the names of their families.
  This is not whistleblowing. This is treason, pure and simple, with a pile of people killed directly due to his actions. Had this selling of secrets happened in China or Russia, Manning would long since have been disposed of.
  I will never get this hero worship of the Triad of Treason. These people have done the world great harm and caused much worse entities to have a better position in the world.
8. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  No respect due a homosexual traitor. HIS name is Bradley. He's a wonky little snit who thinks by dint of becoming a female, he'll have it easier and might not be forced to take it up the poop chute whilst he serves out his time for traitorious behaviour. He's where he's supposed to be.
  Sex changes do not change your sex. Full stop. If this were not true, no hormone therapy would be required, even temporarily. Every cell in a person's body is wired with their sex. It's immutable. It's permanent. People can try and "change" it, but they will never succeed. Slicing off parts of your body to coincide with what you think you should be mentally also does nothing. Born a man, a man, born a woman, a woman. It's a mental disease these people have. Full stop. And liberals fuel the fire. Now schools are having talks on this stuff and bringing in these sick people to talk to children. My children know it's wrong already. Damn liberal governments and local municipalities. Thankfully, UKIP will get elected soon and we can begin to route these imbeciles.
9. Re: so let me get this straight... by david_thornley · 2014-12-12 07:12 · Score: 1
  
  Who got killed due to Manning? I'm really suspicious of "killed a lot of people".
  
  --
  "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
10. Re: so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 07:23 · Score: 0
  
  You should inform the US army that the Manning leaks has lead to the death of a lot of people, they don't seems to know that. More precisely when they speaks to press, yes, they may say it has killed people, but when they have to testify, they say the opposite.
11. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 07:28 · Score: 0
  
  No respect due a homosexual traitor. HIS name is Bradley.
  She has been in trial for that, she has been found guilty, she's in jail for that. The sentence did not include anything about the fact that she cannot change sex.
12. Re: so let me get this straight... by hey! · 2014-12-12 09:29 · Score: 1
  
  This is not whistleblowing. This is treason, pure and simple
  People use that word, not because of what it means, but because of how something makes them feel. The word "treason" actually has a specific meaning. you can't bandy it around because you don't like something, or even because an act happened to aid the enemy. The perpetrator's intent is critical -- and it's not enough for that intent to be wildly misguided. If the perpetrator's intent was to support and defend the Constitution, or to prevent war crimes, it makes no difference whether you think that intent was misguided. It's his opinion that matters to the charge of treason, not yours.
  
  --
  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
13. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 09:39 · Score: 0
  
  I doubt it's that Google has "no problem" with the US, but the US market is a much bigger chunk of their company than the Russian market is.
  Personally, I wouldn't be all that surprised in a few years to hear of a big company like Google, or a conglomerate of such companies, straight-up buying out some small country somewhere and shifting their HQ...
14. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 20:48 · Score: 0
  
  So that's the standard now? "At least we're not as bad as Russia?"
15. Re:so let me get this straight... by Dahamma · 2014-12-12 22:04 · Score: 1
  
  Oh bullshit.
  The US government obviously secretly spies on citizens just like Russia and most other countries. Yeah, it's annoying but you are naive if you think it's not ubiquitous.
  But the US does not imprison journalists and artists for things like speaking badly of the government or singing an "offensive" song in a church.
  Google was worried their employees in Russia would be held criminally accountable for draconian spying and censorship laws, and so they decided it wasn't worth risking. They aren't worried their US employers will be held criminally accountable for not turning over data without a warrant or not censoring information, because those are not illegal.
16. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-13 03:06 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe it is because the NSA and CIA cannot stand to have an American company actually cooperate with the will of the Russian legistlators, who came up with this law?
  Russians are reacting to the US engineered regime change, next door in the Ukraine. What got most Russians to realize the US was at war was their support for the neo-nazis in Ukraine.
  You probably are ignorant about the Odessa Trade Union building,
  Warning: disturbing images
  http://www.globalresearch.ca/how-neo-nazi-thugs-supported-by-kiev-regime-killed-odessa-inhabitants-photographic-evidence/5380504
  The videos of the trade union building massacre in Odessa are poignant.
  http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/05/videos-photos-odessan-massacre-done.html
  After some seventy years, the first nazi government in Europe is in power, thanks to Ms. Nuland and the spending of five billion USD to "bring democracy" as she stated in her Dec. 13th, 2013 speech at the Washington Press Club.
  While the Nazis (Svoboda Party, previously the Socialist Nationalist Party and Pravy Sektor) in Kiev rewrite history books to glorify Stephen Bandera, their economy continues to crash. It is getting very ugly, very fast. It is a problem for Europe. The Ukraine is filled with a lot of angry armed men. The Russians have been superb in avoiding the many traps that the US, EU and NATO tried to place for them. Those angry people will soon turn around and become a problem for Europe.
  Nazism can be resisted only by force. The Nazis understand no other language (Hitler sent 14 year old kids to fight in the last days of the war when all was lost rather than sue for peace). This is not surprising: differentiation of human rights on account of race is incompatible with the rule of law.
  Neither Russia nor Europe alone can save the Ukraine. Neither has enough money. Do you want to see Russia only help the Donbass, the wealthiest, best educated part of the Ukraine? Where will that leave Europe? The EU is far more threatened than Russia.
  Despite "Russia" being attacked, and the "retreat" of Russian speakers to a rump of Donetsk and Luhansk, it is amazing the failure of the Ukrainian military to subdue such small regions.
  We have to ask ourselves, why?
  We should not forget Adolf Hitler and the siege of Leningrad. He said accept no white flag, there was no place in the Third Reich for Russians. There is no place for Russian speakers in Mr. Porochenko's Ukraine either. A government that calls a portion of its citizenry "subhumans" and suspends their constitutional human rights must be called to account. May I suggest watching Mr. Porochenko in his own words,
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=q7y019rXGms
  The US, Canada and the Ukraine voted against a UN Resolution condemning the heroization of Nazism. The EU was not much better: it abstained. This development is so crazy, so insane, that it is important to have access to the original document which was voted on,
  Here is the full text of the Resolution:
  http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N14/604/26/PDF/N1460426.pdf
  As for the Ukrainians themselves, they have suffered more from Nazis then any other country or ethnic group, and yet they also refused to condemn the heroization of Nazism. This makes a mockery not only of all their so-called principles and values, it also is an act of obscene disrespect for the millions of Ukrainians murdered by the Nazis.
  This clearly shows unequivocally how much western elites truly hate Russia and that this hate clearly trumps any other considerations or values. The hypocrisy, corruption, immorality, cowardice and sheer stupidity of Germany and the EU is absolutely stunning.
  When a people are being threatened with genocide, where the civilian population is expressly targeted, including with the use of ballistic missiles, while legitimate military targets are ignored, do they have much choice but to defend themselves to the last?
  Russia will never ever allow this con
17. Re:so let me get this straight... by quantaman · 2014-12-13 05:10 · Score: 1
  
  So that's the standard now? "At least we're not as bad as Russia?"
  No, it's "the US doing bad things doesn't provide license for other countries to do horrible things (or vice versa)"
  
  --
  I stole this Sig
18. Re:so let me get this straight... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-13 08:43 · Score: 0
  
  Sorry, but the country which tortures suspects, spies on it's own citizens and has upwards of 2.5 to 3 million people behind bars doesn't get to preach to anyone about anything. And it certainly doesn't get a free pass to misrepresent itself as 'the land of the free."
'reasonable' move. by mar.kolya · 2014-12-12 02:14 · Score: 1

So Google closes engeneering office on grounds that Russian government makes it more difficult for NSA to snoop on its citizens?
Or maybe Google closes engeneering office on grounds that Russian government doesn't want its country to be affected when USA prezident doesn't feel like allowing any other country in the world to have its own foreign policy?
Yeah, seems like a 'reasonable' move.
1. Re:'reasonable' move. by oh_my_080980980 · 2014-12-12 02:43 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah it has nothing to do with Russia's stringent censorship laws designed to control the Internet activity of the general public and corporations....*eye roll*
Bloggers by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:16 · Score: 2, Insightful

So if the russian government doesn't like a blogger, all it has to do is hit the blog 3000 times within a day to force him to register, give his name and address, and have him under control.
Captcha: unfair
If you want to spy on our citizens ... by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:18 · Score: 0

... you have to do it where we can sentence you.
After last years events who is Google to blame Russia for passing this law?
The laws seems reasonable by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:21 · Score: 0

The blogging law would primarily affect Google's blogspot, which is a small fraction of their offerings. And it's not as if the law would prevent people from speaking out, it merely makes sure that they can be held responsible (eg inciting violence or guilty of libel etc). Preventing foul language is a bit far, but then I can't do that in front of a cop either. It's just that Russia doesn't have the extensive reach of the US intelligence services and hence requires overt means (eg laws) of identifying people rather than the covert means that the US government engages in.
And the laws that data on Russian citizens must be kept in Russia seems more than reasonable as a matter of national security as well as laws protecting consumer over the movement of their personal information.
First part seems good by Roodvlees · 2014-12-12 02:22 · Score: 3, Informative

Storing data locally will in theory give people more control over their data. It seems though that it will in this case only give the government more control over your data.
The second part is much worse and a continuation of russian policy to keep journalists and other people who have unpleasant things to say silent.

--
Thank you, Bradley Manning, Edward Snowden and so many others, for courageously defending humanity, my freedom and more!
1. Re:First part seems good by swillden · 2014-12-12 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  It seems though that it will in this case only give the government more control over your data.
  I think this is the deeper reasoning behind most such moves all over the world. We've seen a lot of motion in this direction after Snowden's revelations, but I think it's less about worry that the US government may have too much access to countries' citizens' data than it is about the insight that if the data is within their borders then they can get it. Oh, I suspect that lawmakers in many countries who are citing the former rationale really mean what they say... but that they're being advised and encouraged by their own governments' bureacracies and security services for the latter rationale.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
2. Re:First part seems good by mlts · 2014-12-12 04:28 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  There is also unintended consequences. Say every country demands this where their citizens' stuff is stored on domestic data centers. Now, the government of Elbonia passes a law stating that for anti-"terrorism" purposes, their version of a secret police has to have real time access to all servers, which in addition to a vague law or two about seditious speech, starts getting people tossed into prison.
  It is the lesser of two evils. The US isn't perfect, but I can have a banner in a window cursing the President and Congress out and not worry about a knock on the door, or a kick in the door. Other countries, citizens there may not be so lucky, and a law forcing Google and others to store data domestically might just be the exact thing a repressive government is dreaming of.
3. Re:First part seems good by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 19:54 · Score: 0
  
  You know you could have said, "fuck you president Obama", but instead you chose to simply say you could say it rather than actually saying it.
  I've chosen not to say this as I'd rather not risk my own governments backlash. Clearly there is something to fear from our government(s). The truth is if somebody in power feels your a threat you'll be charged with something regardless of a crime having been committed- or outright tortured- if somebody thinks they can get away with allowing it.
  If you are on the governments radar (and pretty much everybody who is arrested is) the trial will be drawn out such that you can't afford to defend yourself. And as everybody knows you won't be able to defend yourself without a competent lawyer you must plead guilty.
  The federal guilty plea rate has risen from 83% in 1983 to 96% in 2009, a rise attributed largely to a change in the Sentencing Guidelines. A ruling intended to make things fairer has actually made things worse. It is used to ensure those accused of crimes plead guilty. Prosecutors can hang large numbers over your head as the courts can not take circumstances into account. Your a sex offender, well, the law says you have spend 10 years in jail and register for the sex offender list. Yet- all the cop arrested you for was pissing in a garbage can at 1AM after being a bit too drunk. The government mostly likes to make up crimes though or trump up charges against its enemies. Rather than use evidence they stack charges against you until something sticks.
  Millions of dollars are pissed away on defenses that will never get to trial. Aaron Swartz spent over a million and never saw a trial. The same thing is happening with Kim Dotcom. $10 million and no trial.
  The legal system is designed to give those in power control and does not care about injustices or protecting mere mortals. The system literally steals your money via laws aimed at ensuring convictions. It's called Proceeds of Crime, and such 'proceeds' can be taken without you even being charged with a crime. However should you be charged the first thing they will do is seize all your assets so you can't afford a decent lawyer. You will have no money to defend yourself.
Don't worry, Berkeley anarchists still hate Google by gelfling · 2014-12-12 02:23 · Score: 0

All is right in the world. Fight Da Power!
Forbidding internet "journalists" from lying? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:26 · Score: 0

Wow. A law forbidding internet "journalists" from deliberately spreading lies? That would be the end of the US clickbait sphere. Thousands would die at Gawker alone.
1. Re:Forbidding internet "journalists" from lying? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:04 · Score: 0
  
  You don't seem to understand what the word "lie" means in a dictatorship. It has nothing to do with the truth, It is anything they don't like.
Just an excuse by sshir · 2014-12-12 02:27 · Score: 4, Interesting

The real reason is that google has failed to penetrate russian market.

They are cutting their losses, that's all. And considering that there are no prospects for business, there are no reasons to invest into infrastructure.
1. Re:Just an excuse by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:04 · Score: 0
  
  Exactly. Apple still does business in Russia and hey have a much better track record of protecting human rights than google.
2. Re:Just an excuse by halivar · 2014-12-12 06:40 · Score: 1
  
  You can't pull out if you failed to penetrate. /duck /run
3. Re:Just an excuse by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 17:22 · Score: 0
  
  Evidence?
It is ironic. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:44 · Score: 0

Google has to pull out of Russia because the Russian government thinks that free speech and freedom of the press causes pedophilia. Google will soon have to pull out of Europe because the EU thinks Google is harming pedophiles by not censoring web searches that link to news articles that identify known pedophiles.
Of course not. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 02:48 · Score: 0

The law will also penalize Web firms for infringing on personal data rules in the country.
We've got no problems letting that sort of thing slide. Why would Google leave?
Please tell me you're not fanboy enough to think it's because "abloobloo abuse of rights".
Meanwhile: NSA spying continues by mnt · 2014-12-12 02:54 · Score: 1

We are so f*cked.
Lazy journalism by voislav98 · 2014-12-12 02:59 · Score: 5, Interesting

The article is a bit misleading, Russia office is not the only one being closed. Google is closing offices in Norway, Sweden, Finland and several US locations as well, probably cost cutting measures. Lazy journalism, Russia just passed a new law, ergo this must be the reason for the Google closing the office, since another big company shuttering facilities and laying people off certainly doesn't draw the site traffic these days. Funny that the connection with cracking down on internet freedom did not extend to Nordic countries and the US, because what other reason could Google have. http://www.independent.co.uk/l...
1. Re:Lazy journalism by MagickalMyst · 2014-12-12 03:37 · Score: 1
  
  > "probably cost cutting measures" Tax shelters?
  
  --
  Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
2. Re:Lazy journalism by hanwenn · 2014-12-13 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  Your reference is outdated. The Google Atlanta office was closed in 2012, and the Austin one in 2009, http://www.bizjournals.com/aus... http://www.bizjournals.com/atl...
What is Putin? by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:22 · Score: 0

Leaving aside that he is an ex-KGB thug, Putin is a complete asshole. Now if one looks at high-profile politicians worldwide, the fact is that a very high percentage of them seem to be complete assholes as well. It seems to me (and I cheerfully acknowledge that I may be wrong) that the proportion of assholes in politics is higher than in the general population. Why? I can see that politics will attract assholes - after all, many of them get off on telling others what to do, and even how to do it. However, what it is with politics that makes easier for assholes to thrive in it?
Beware of Snowden! by MagickalMyst · 2014-12-12 03:36 · Score: 2

Google's office must be too close to Snowden's hideout for comfort.

--
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
1. Re:Beware of Snowden! by Ksevio · 2014-12-12 11:58 · Score: 1
  
  But Google benefited from Snowden's actions. It was from the documents he released that let them know the NSA was tapping links between data centers.
Stop using that term by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 03:37 · Score: 1

The term is oppression, not "crackdown". The term "crackdown" implies something illegal or immoral going on in the first place -- and the situation here (freedom of association) is nothing like that. The situation here (as in most other parts of the world) is that government has decided to oppress your natural human right to free association. Unless you are a member of the oppressive force -- which logically you can't be if you are also the subject of that oppression -- you are being oppressed, not "cracked down" upon.
Re:Engineering In Russia ? impossible by CohibaVancouver · 2014-12-12 03:50 · Score: 1

I have no clue what this even means.
Encroachment by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:00 · Score: 0

More and more governments are trying to seize control over communications. This type of activity usually comes just before a major war with somebody.
Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:11 · Score: 0

It's likely a reaction to the US custom of funding political dissent in countries it doesn't like, usually at the street level, targetting bloggers and tweets and popular culture. Added to that, the concern worldwide about data-handling from US companies, Russia likely doesn't want the US government having free reign access to all of their citizens' private information.
Not just Russia.. its global internet isolation. by mrops · 2014-12-12 04:12 · Score: 1

Resources have a way of not having boundaries, radio waves, land, water... and internet.
We have already put man made boundaries on other resources, so why not internet. It is just inevitable. The sad bit is that internet is not like land or water, there is abundance of it, unfortunately we just don't know how to handle abundance.
Re: Engineering In Russia ? impossible by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:19 · Score: 0

It means the Russians have a fragile ego.
How dare they! by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:32 · Score: 0

Spreading false information is what blogging is all about! And is every citizen's God given right!
Growing Isolation by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 04:58 · Score: 0

RUSSIA's Actions????? http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/12/minimum-viable-sociopathy.html
Perhaps by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 05:10 · Score: 1

Russia and Egypt are aware of computer machine intelligence robots run by NGO entities such as, say, a Google engineering staff that can multiply and manipulate comments and stories on social medial to engineer social unrest and revolution by influencing the news cycle and creating a cascading multiplier effect. It's a known known for those who stay aware. Probably run by DARPA and the CIA. Putin learned from Egypt you gotta shut them down if you want to stay in power. The opening moves in a broad geo strategic conflict about who gets to control the economic and energy future and so get to be the new super powers. The more things remain the same...
1. Re:Perhaps by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:17 · Score: 0
  
  Ah the wonder of conspiracy theorists, you never know if you are reading the rambling of a madman, or just a joke.
This is because russia is sexist by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:00 · Score: 1

and feminists love making sexist men lose their jobs and be blacklisted.
There should be a physical response.
Re:Engineering In Russia ? impossible by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 06:58 · Score: 0

Comrade, one day you will catch Moose and Squirrel. Until that day, you are shame to Motherland.
In soviet russia by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 11:08 · Score: 0

in soviet russia google searches you
Well mis-reported, West. by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 11:41 · Score: 0

requires information on Russian citizens to be stored in data centers in Russia.
Good - free from snooping by foreign intelligence agencies.

The law will also penalize Web firms for infringing on personal data rules in the country.
Good - free from snooping by foreign intelligence agencies and abuse by foreign private companies.

Another law passed earlier this year requires bloggers with 3,000 or more daily readers to register with the government and provide their home address.
Good - it's not like the government can't easily find the owner of a popular blog anyway, so why not obtain the informationhonestly?

The ruling prevents these bloggers from using foul language
This one's stupid, but given that Britain has recently banned facesitting, spanking and female ejaculation (but not male) in ALL porn, I'm going to say we're about even on the stupid.

and forbids them from spreading false information.
Bro, do you even study British libel cases?
Re:Engineering In Russia ? impossible by Anonymous Coward · 2014-12-12 21:50 · Score: 0

In the US the government illegally tortures a few hundred terrorists and then denies it.
In Russia the government murders a few hundred thousand citizens and then denies it.