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Judge Rules Drug Maker Cannot Halt Sales of Alzheimer's Medicine

HughPickens.com writes Andrew Pollack reports at the NYT that a federal judge has blocked an attempt by the drug company Actavis to halt sales of an older form of its Alzheimer's disease drug Namenda in favor of a newer version with a longer patent life after New York's attorney general filed an antitrust lawsuit accusing the drug company of forcing patients to switch to the newer version of the widely used medicine to hinder competition from generic manufacturers. "Today's decision prevents Actavis from pursuing its scheme to block competition and maintain its high drug prices," says Eric Schneiderman, the New York attorney general. "Our lawsuit against Actavis sends a clear message: Drug companies cannot illegally prioritize profits over patients."

The case involves a practice called product hopping where brand name manufacturers make a slight alteration to their prescription drug (PDF) and engage in marketing efforts to shift consumers from the old version to the new to insulate the drug company from generic competition for several years. For its part Actavis argued that an injunction would be "unprecedented and extraordinary" and would cause the company "great financial harm, including unnecessary manufacturing and marketing costs." Namenda has been a big seller. In the last fiscal year, the drug generated $1.5 billion in sales. The drug costs about $300 a month.

266 comments

  1. Can you say... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 0, Troll

    ...overturned on Appeal?

    I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:Can you say... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 5, Insightful

      yes, requiring a company WHO IS IN THE HEALTH-CARE BUSINESS to continue saving lives and not taking profits as the first thing.

      yes, makes sense to me. but then again, I'm a human being, not a pycho CEO or politician.

      there should be a law: if you are in the healthcare business (which is your choice) then you MUST put patients first above all else.

      doctors have to swear this. why not the makers of drugs and such? it would fix a LOT of what is broken with the western world, if we did that. think of how much GOOD would be done to humanity, as a whole!

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Can you say... by Mathinker · · Score: 1

      > I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      As opposed to granting them a limited monopoly? I haven't read the ruling, but I rather think that the company would have the choice to not manufacture the old version but instead have the patent revoked so competitors could manufacture it.

    3. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea insane, it's clearly much saner to allow the drug company to allow them to make minor changes to the drug so they can maintain their profit margins. Fuck those alzheimer patients, they can't remember anyway.

    4. Re:Can you say... by YA_Python_dev · · Score: 3, Insightful

      yes, requiring a company WHO IS IN THE HEALTH-CARE BUSINESS to continue saving lives and not taking profits as the first thing.

      But the whole reason why they are required to do so is because there are other companies producing the same drug. If this wasn't the case nobody would have cared which of the two versions they produced.

      It's fixing a stupid situation with even more stupidity rather than attacking the root causes: patents and excessive effect of advertising on doctors' decisions.

      --
      There's a hidden treasure in Python 3.x: __prepare__()
    5. Re:Can you say... by geekmux · · Score: 1

      ...overturned on Appeal?

      I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      Yeah, you're right. That's insane.

      Almost as insane as a the practice of changing a product ever so slightly and re-branding it under a different name in order to avoid further lawsuits and bad publicity they would receive from the previous formula riddled with side effects or fatalities.

      Perhaps we should learn to look through the forest being planted in front of our eyes, or at least ask why it exists, because it would certainly appear this type of activity is not always about simple greed like patents.

    6. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So glad that's all you've taken from this. Most other civilized people around the world would see this as a great thing. These pharmaceutical companies are quite happy to alter the chemical structure, even adding unnecessary extras, SPECIFICALLY to keep their strange hold on certain markets. It allows them to submit a new patent, even though, for all intents and purposes it is exactly the same drug. Once they get the patent, hundreds of millions or billions get throw at marketing, which to the casual consumer suggests this is the optimum way to get healthy. End result: The same drug that costs $3 to produce, can sell for $300 because of all the manipulations at play.

      One thing that staggered me and I have never seen anywhere else in the world: So many legal drugs and medicines being advertised to the consumer on TV. 99.9% of you are not a doctor, so why the hell would you be able to diagnose what the ideal drug for you is? Why would you suggest, to the professional (who is probably on commission!) that you need X drug, no matter what the price!

    7. Re:Can you say... by crunchy_one · · Score: 1

      REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      I might be inclined to agree with you, except for the fact that Actavis engaged in cynical manipulation of patent law to obtain protection that they were not entitled to. I say throw the book at them!

    8. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is a slippery slope to slavery, requiring people to do something against their collective will.

      "if you are in the healthcare business..."

      You know where this leads, don't you? "We've decided to exit the health care business because the requirements to manufacture drugs that are no longer profitable has left us an unprofitable company.

      Well, you can't exit the healthcare business anymore.

    9. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Product hopping" is straight-up evil.

      If you want to defend Big Pharma using a loophole to increase their profits at the expense of the lives of patients, be my guest.

    10. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The term for the old drug has not run out yet, it is still patented, so there is no competition yet.

    11. Re:Can you say... by thaylin · · Score: 1

      So it is ok to keep forcing them to make the product if it was not making them money?

      I am sorry but the law you propose would lead to less people helping people. there has to be a balance.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    12. Re:Can you say... by thaylin · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Then make it so if a company abandons the product the patent becomes invalid.

      --
      When you cant win, ad hominem.
    13. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      Yeah. It's a Rube-Goldbergian solution to a problem which should be solved in a more direct manner: strongly limiting what's possible to do with so-called "intellectual property".

      I'd be fine with refusing the company the patent protection on an obvious follow-up product.

      But those companies are the same ones lobbying for the crazy patent laws that are in place. Glad to see them getting some fall-out from that.

    14. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      read the fucking article. they plan to continue making it but only for certain 'special needs' patients.. so the judge is just telling them they can't restrict distribution but must make it available to all. makes sense...

      further, the company is by far the largest producer of the drug worldwide, generic or namebrand, and its market share likely triggers antitrust provisions for it.

      the new version, btw, is only the same fucking drug, just in an 'extended release capsule' instead of a 2x daily tab. one of the easiest and most common ways a drug company pulls this shit.

    15. Re: Can you say... by dhjdhj · · Score: 1

      I can't talk generally about drugs that are advertised on TV but I will say that it is a mistake to assume that the doctor knows everything. Apart from the old joke ("what do you call a student who comes last in medical school? Doctor!"), like computer science and many other domains, there's simply too much too learn. So if an educated consumer (and you need to be educated if you're dealing with medical issues) says to a doctor that he or she would like to be on a particular drug, the doctor should either be able to say yes or no (and why not if no) or do the research to be able to answer the question or refer patient to someone else who does know about the topic.

    16. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Life is a beach, isn't it?

    17. Re:Can you say... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Are you saying healthcare should be handled by the government because healthcare is not always profitable?

      Not to mention that the concept of private healthcare is logically flawed in a free market. The typical person creates much more value than the amount they are paid. A person dying will cost the economy a lot more than the loss of their wage.

    18. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are a 'for profit' company, not a 'for balance' company. If they want balance they must set some profit aside.

    19. Re:Can you say... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Any law made like that could almost certainly be used to ensure that any Patent YOU might ever have could be voided if you weren't making the product the day the patent was issued, and every day thereafter.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    20. Re:Can you say... by geoskd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Any law made like that could almost certainly be used to ensure that any Patent YOU might ever have could be voided if you weren't making the product the day the patent was issued, and every day thereafter.

      Bingo...

      --
      I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
    21. Re:Can you say... by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      Despite the legal analogy, companies aren't really people. If you also made it illegal for people to quit the company, that would be akin to slavery. But requiring a company to do something is not slavery.

    22. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As the summary mentions, the company was engaged in "product hopping", or "evergreening".

      This involves using the courts to delay the introduction of generic medicines. Meanwhile, they continue to sell their products at full price.

      A couple of interesting links for you:

      FTC report 2002
      Pharmacy Times

    23. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Are you saying healthcare should be handled by the government because healthcare is not always profitable?

      This goes to a major complaint I have about the way we seem to be approaching health care in the United States: it's always an "either/or" proposition. Either the entirety of 1/6th of the economy in the United States can be handled by free markets, or the entirety cannot. There is never any consideration that perhaps one part isn't profitable under the current rules and needs a rule tweak, or that a small part doesn't work under free market rules and should be socialized but the rest should use free market rules.

      Take, for example, discussions about the unprofitability of Emergency Room operations. I've seen the fact that hospitals who run an ER are required to treat anyone--and thus wind up treating the uninsured for minor ailments as a suggestion that the entire health care system is broken and so we need single payer.

      But does anyone in the debate consider the possibility that ER visits only represent a very small percentage of the overall costs to the health care system? Does anyone consider the possibility of perhaps just socializing the costs for ER visits--by using taxpayer dollars to implicitly insure the uninsured who use an ER, while leaving the rest of the system alone?

      Or take the fact that it is profitable for insurance companies to dump high-expense patients who run up large insurance-paid health care bills due to things like cancer. "Oh, we must switch to single payer, otherwise insurance companies will dump expensive patients and leave them to die." (Never mind that in Great Britain, they are implicitly dumping expensive older patients by pushing them onto the Liverpool Care Pathway without their consent. Bean counters are bean counters regardless of if they work for the government or for private corporations.)

      But did anyone consider the possibility of the government backstopping insurance companies for high-expense patients, by (for example) putting a cap on the amount of money an insurance company must pay out in the lifetime of an individual (call it $1 million)--then when you hit that cap, the money beyond that cap comes from the government, filtered through the insurance company? That is, we socialize costs for expensive patients, while privatizing costs below the cap.

      Ohhhhh, no. It's "either/or." Because we're too stupid to think of anything more subtle than reshaping the entire industry to fit either in the mould of Ayn Rand or in the mould of Karl Marx.

    24. Re: Can you say... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Being able to parrot advertising slogans is not the same as being educated.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    25. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 1

      Like soylent green, companies are made of people.

      And a "company" is just a legal fiction by which a group of people can hold property and IP rights without those property rights being held by any single individual, so that the company can continue to operate when there are changes in personnel.

      So if you insist on making a company continue to operate even when it is no longer profitable--as was in my example--then at some level that company still must contain people: a company without any people cannot function except as a passive property owner.

      Which means at some level, the practical outcome of requiring a company to actively do something implicitly would make it illegal for that company not to have people working for it--and would require the owners of that company to be active participants, even if only in the management of that company's activities.

      Which is a long way of saying that you are effectively requiring someone to act against his will and work for the company without being able to quit--which is akin to slavery.

    26. Re:Can you say... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You know where this leads, don't you? "We've decided to exit the health care business because the requirements to manufacture drugs that are no longer profitable has left us an unprofitable company.

      Well, you can't exit the healthcare business anymore.

      Perhaps the solution is to make generic drugs illegal. Allow a drug company perpetual patents so they won't ever become unprofitible.

      Then they can avoid competition, because competition is bad. Umm ..... right?

      Because this is the other side of the coin. Generic drugs are widely hated by the drug companies because they are competition. Making a minor change, say adding caffiene to an antidepressant, then re-patenting what is essentially the same drug, is more a loophole exploitation that a response to competition.

      Then they discontinue the original drug. People who might have been well under control with the original might have a doctor who is getting baksheesh from the company, so the doctor might refuse to prescribe the generic form, so you have what amounts to perpetual patents.

      Not a whole lot different than thinking that people great great grandchildren are owed the rights to something written 150 years ago. Patents are not expected to extend to infinity, Except for the Tolkien family, DIsney, and drug companies, eh?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    27. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, sure, or the minute they stop production for maintenance, machine failure, loss of power...

    28. Re:Can you say... by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      There is no mechanism to force owners to become active in a company's daily affairs. That's one of the key benefits of incorporation: if shit hits the fan, you just declare bankruptcy and walk away unscathed. Owners have no responsibility to the company, and legal judgments cannot touch them as individuals. So no, it would not be forcing anyone to work for the company against their will. If everyone just quit the company, it would fold and it'd be up to a bankruptcy court to try to find a buyer or otherwise liquidate the assets.

    29. Re:Can you say... by bondsbw · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This reminds me of a situation my wife dealt with a few years back. She was on a pain medication that was really the only one she had found that provided the relief she needed to get through the day. But it suddenly stopped being sold or prescribed one day.

      That day, the FDA banned the drug. It cited a study that found that the drug was linked with something bad, I think maybe suicidal thoughts.

      But then she found that the study was produced by the company that made the brand name version of the drug, which had competition by generics by that point.

      Hmm.

      Also, the brand name company had just created a new similar pain medication that had new patent protections. The FDA ruling effectively killed the competition of this new drug.

      Hmm.

      Mind you, that new drug is ineffective for my wife's pain. Also, the study was done over a very short period of time, had a weak sample size, and when you look at its bias, there's no way that study would have made it into a real medical journal. But would the FDA accept it (presumably along with a check with lots of pretty zeroes)? Absolutely.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    30. Re:Can you say... by jareth-0205 · · Score: 2

      You cannot use 'slippery slope' argument and then complain about other people making 'either/or' arguments! They are *the same* concept! You saying that this is a slippery slope is exactly an either/or proposition: That we should not do this thing because it *will* lead to this other thing.

    31. Re:Can you say... by pepty · · Score: 1

      The FDA grants drug companies marketing exclusivity on drug formulations predicated on the basis that doing so is useful to society. It makes sense to interpret the laws based on that intent. When companies have just promoted the new version while leaving the old version on the market, judges have left them alone. Besides, we have already started forcing generic drug companies to announce and sometimes postone their stopping of manufacturing generic drugs if doing so would cause a shortage of the drug.

    32. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 1

      I would think the solution would be quite the opposite: subsidize the ramp-up costs for generic drug manufacturers so that when drugs fall out of patent they can be easily manufactured by other drug makers.

      My understanding is that there are essentially two classes of drug manufacturers--those which make patented compounds, and those which make generics. Patented compounds tend to be very expensive because it can cost billions to bring a new compound to market, largely because of the cost to get FDA approval for the compound--so by default patented compounds will be extremely expensive so that those profits can be used to pay off the R&D costs and subsidize future R&D costs for future compounds. Generics, on the other hand, are cheap because they are not paying for R they're just paying to make the compound.

      The real problem, of course, goes around the high R&D costs for creating new compounds. And it is there where, if I were King For A Day, I would concentrate my efforts, by ramping up government funding of research efforts by providing more grant money to universities for basic R&D research into newer compounds, and I would also see if I couldn't reduce the regulatory overhead for obtaining FDA approval.

    33. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fortunately, if you have a doctor like that, you just go to another doctor. Personally, my insurance is for a large HMO - they won't prescribe the name brand. Generics only unless there is absolutely no way to manage your condition with the generic. The doctor has to fill out some additional entries in the computer prescription form to get you the name brand (and I imagine they are under some sort of quota system where they cannot do that very often).

    34. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Kudos to the judge on this one, because the company is pursuing a bald-faced scam in forcing patients to switch to the new version in this manner.

      Yes, it's weird to in effect require a company to manufacture a given product. Actavis could easily start having "manufacturing problems" that mysteriously cramp its ability to keep producing the old substance. How I would like to see this shake out is for the old patent to be automatically voided in cases of product hopping. The old drug would become a generic that anyone could manufacture. I'm sure this is what the judge had in mind, but probably did not have the jurisdiction to rule on the patent itself.

    35. Re:Can you say... by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      It doesn't make sense to me. The patent has expired. There is nothing stopping a 3rd party from now manufacturing the drug - which is what should happen. If the original manufacturer wants to focus completely on their new patent protected drug that's their business. But if you screw with the market this way, anyone trying to make the generic will be forced into competition with this manufacturer who already has a fair slice of market share.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    36. Re: Can you say... by dhjdhj · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, pretty sure that....wait....let me check.....checking....yep.....what is it about the very first phrase of my answer did you not understand? ------- "I can't talk generally about drugs that are advertised on TV"

    37. Re:Can you say... by pepty · · Score: 1

      So it is ok to keep forcing them to make the product if it was not making them money?

      If a sudden stop would lead to a drug shortage and huge price spike, sure. Generic companies manipulate the price of drugs (think 1000% price hikes, if you can get the drug at all) this way. It works because it would take a drug manufacturing plant months and millions of dollars to become approved to make a given drug, and that assumes the plant wouldn't need several months and millions of dollars of retooling to even make the drug at scale.

    38. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Any law made like that could almost certainly be used to ensure that any Patent YOU might ever have could be voided if you weren't making the product the day the patent was issued, and every day thereafter.

      "Any drug company that produces a particular drug, that then stops producing said drug in favor of a different drug designed for the same purpose, shall have the patent of the first drug voided."

      1) Any patent I might come up with almost certainly won't be drug-related.
      2) I can cease production all I want and not have the patent voided, as long as I do not switch production to a different drug designed to do the same thing.

      So, you were saying? Though I will grant you that a law worded that specifically would have a snowballs chance in hell of actually being passed.

    39. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Patents have traditionally had an exploitation requirement: you can't just patent something and then sit on it, any more than you can stake a mining claim without 'proving it out.' This seems to have changed in recent years, now that we have so many examples of 'submarine' patents that suddenly come to life after sitting unused for years.

      Legal question - was there a law change that enabled this, or is everyone just filing their patent suits in East Texas today?

    40. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Its not flawed at all. Its often the case that people with the means will pay almost anything for healthcare. Its they canonical definition of inelastic. The Alzheimer's patient will pay anything for the drugs keeping him or her sane until they simply haven't got the resources to pay anymore. Nope healthcare (if its effective) *should* be wildly profitable. The problem is this funny idea we have allowed to creep in that everyone is entitled to be healthy even in God or nature did not end so.

      Anyone should be free spend whatever they like on their health and any provider ought to be free to charge whatever they want or offer whatever services and products they like, what isn't good is for society to allow individuals to allocate the resources of others against their will. This is ESPECIALLY true of healthcare. Cold as this may sound its probably far more true of healthcare than other things because the economics say it can be near infinitely expensive and people are fundamentally irrational about the care they will choose to consume if there are no constraints. I also think there is no moral way to decide constraints other than to leave it to the individuals wherewithal.

      Consider the case of my Great Uncle, (Keep in mind this is occuring in the 40s, situation can get much more crazy expensive today). This is a micro-economic example but I see know reason the tragic effects of over consumption of healthcare won't have the same effect on society as it did on our family.

      My Great Uncle and his wife had third child with terrible birth defects. Without major surgical intervention the child would not have survived for more than a few days. The most hopeful prognosis was that if heaven and earth were moved maybe this child could eat on its own; but the brain damage was so severe even this was unlikely.

      My Great Uncle could not see reasonable and humane thing to do was to let this baby pass quickly without minimal suffering. No they chose to do the surgery. He spent every dime he and his wife had, investing it all in this lost cause. The surgery was a "success". He and his family were now nearly destitute.

      My Grandfather stepped in pay to keep this child in a nursing facility she could be cared for. She never spoke or sat up on her own in the three years she lived. Never indicated she could recognize her mother, nothing. My Grandfather could do that, for his brother and his child. What he could not afford to do was take on the crushing debts for the original surgery, or bear the cost of keeping my Great uncle and his family in their home. At least not without detriment to his own family, which he would not allow. They and the other children lost all the advantages that come from a comfortable middle class life. My Great uncle killed himself over what he had done to the rest of his family, which of course only made things worse for them.

      Now I am not suggesting that the daughter did not have the right to live or should have been euthanized or something, merely that a decision not take for the mouths of his other children for her care would have been the wiser. My grandfather on the other hand did the right thing. He compassionately contributed what he could to his brothers plight and that of his child but was able to stop before it became destructive to him or his own; because he was not being forced.

      Once we force people or companies to support the health of others there are no reasonable lines to draw, we all risk being sucked into a bottomless abyss. Force is never good and never moral.

    41. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is why I would like to see the FDA stripped of its powers to keep products off the market. Testing of medical devices and drugs is a vital function, but let the FDA be a pure provider of information. The customer, his doctors and insurance companies would be free to look at the FDA data and decide for themselves what to medicate with.

    42. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 1

      Because currently no mechanism exists to force a corporation to take action.

      My hypothetical above was premised on the idea that if we were to listen to our emotions and demand that a corporation not leave the health care business simply because it was unprofitable--and after all there are lives to save--that we would create a mechanism which would effectively exempt corporations from folding.

      And note if the only way I can exit a business is to zero out millions in assets I own, that's a pretty hefty burden being placed on me.

    43. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      The fix for that one is to allow patients to fill their prescriptions on the worldwide market, rather than being legally restricted to domestic suppliers. If the drug is any good, Ranbaxy or some other offshore manufacturer will be glad to produce it.

    44. Re:Can you say... by pepty · · Score: 1

      I'd be fine with refusing the company the patent protection on an obvious follow-up product.

      What if the new formulation is clearly better for some or most patients? Even when several drugs all have the same active ingredient, different formulations can change side effects drastically. Ditto for when the "me too" drug contains an active ingredient that is slightly different from the original.

    45. Re:Can you say... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But did anyone consider the possibility of the government backstopping insurance companies for high-expense patients, by (for example) putting a cap on the amount of money an insurance company must pay out in the lifetime of an individual (call it $1 million)--then when you hit that cap, the money beyond that cap comes from the government, filtered through the insurance company? That is, we socialize costs for expensive patients, while privatizing costs below the cap.

      My god no!

      That's socialising the losses and privaising the losses. That's using tax money to let the insurance companies cream off only he most profitable bits while making the taxes pay for the unprofitable bits.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    46. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wouldn't use Soylent Green as an analogy if I were you. Companies are made up of people, but they shouldn't be eating people. In too many cases, this is exactly what they end up doing.

      If Actavis were to lose the patent on the old Alzheimer's drug when it started selling the new one, it would still be totally free to profit on the new drug if it were a significant improvement over the old one. The very fact that they object to having to keep manufacturing the old one tells us they're lying. If they were not, the new drug would automatically take over the market and demand for the old one would fall.

    47. Re:Can you say... by LordKronos · · Score: 4, Informative

      2) I can cease production all I want and not have the patent voided, as long as I do not switch production to a different drug designed to do the same thing.

      So, you were saying?

      You really can't see the loophole in that? The new drug isn't designed to do the same thing. It would do something slightly different. Sure, you could try to reword that, but that's the difficulty with creating laws...you either get too broad and have unintended consequences, or you get too specific and someone finds a way around it on a technicality you didn't anticipate.

    48. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But did anyone consider the possibility of the government backstopping insurance companies for high-expense patients, by (for example) putting a cap on the amount of money an insurance company must pay out in the lifetime of an individual (call it $1 million)--then when you hit that cap, the money beyond that cap comes from the government, filtered through the insurance company? That is, we socialize costs for expensive patients, while privatizing costs below the cap.

      Ohhhhh, no. It's "either/or." Because we're too stupid to think of anything more subtle than reshaping the entire industry to fit either in the mould of Ayn Rand or in the mould of Karl Marx.

      Insurance policies are generally annual and not cradle-to-grave, so a life-time cap on claims would be unworkable for administrative and economic incentive reasons. There would still be very poor people who can't afford healthcare at all, and others who become unprofitable. Someone who develops MS, for example, may need expensive drugs every year for the rest of their life. On a whole-population basis these drugs may be affordable (because not that many people get MS), but for that person on an average income they are unaffordable. Then you have to start introducing rules forcing insurance companies to renew policies at premium rates that they know will be unprofitable. Then you have problems where people can't switch jobs, or start their own businesses, as they can't switch health insurers... Very few old people are going to be worth insuring from an economic point of view unless they happen to be rich. The fact that losses are capped at $1 million is hardly going to be an incentive to insurers. There is also the political problem of deciding how much the government should charge for the reinsurance (government programs that only help a small minority are often vulnerable to cuts unlike, for example, Social Security).

      These sorts of 'solutions' with multiple parties involved (patients, insurers, employers, hospitals/healthcare providers, government) are really tricky to design because of the conflicting incentives they create. Your solution is quick, simple, cheap and wrong.

      Interestingly, in the UK, successive governments have been trying to do the reverse to the NHS - that is, keep it looking like a government program on the outside but introduce 'internal markets' and commercial intermediaries behind the scenes. This has done little but cause ridiculous administrative overhead and massive payments to 'consultants', many of which are former NHS management.

    49. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know slaves weren't paid, right?

    50. Re:Can you say... by milkmage · · Score: 1

      "Drug companies cannot illegally prioritize profits over patients"

      what's the problem?

    51. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's healthcare. Why the fuck are profits the motivating factor!?

    52. Re:Can you say... by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Informative

      In the U.S. there hasn't ever been an exploitation requirement per se. The only kind of IP that explicitly requires action by the holder is a trademark, which they're required to aggressively defend at the risk of losing it otherwise. However, it used to be that you could file an application and tie up the approval process for years without it actually being issued, which effectively let you secretly hold a patent as long as you wanted and have it formally issued only when it was to your advantage to do so. About 20 years ago the U.S. changed patent terms from "date of issuance" to "date of filing", so the clock now starts ticking when you first send in the application.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    53. Re:Can you say... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      That's effectively what they are. They don't do the testing. They simply tell you how much testing you have to do before you don't get charged with a federal crime by selling your poison. If you left it to the courts (which is what all Libertarian types like to do), you'd be decrying judges finding against doctors who prescribed under-tested products because that's not "free market" either. So to fight it, you go about bandying "facts" like implying that the FDA does the testing. They don't they just set the standards. Or should theree be no standards? Do you hate them, as well?

      Just face it - you folks hate government and there's not a damn thing it ever does right in your eyes. As such, you're not adding to the debate - you're just mouthing platitudes. Yes we remember your side of the issue. Though, honestly, we've heard it before. And sadly, it's just as stupid now as when we first heard it. It's as religious to the free market as Catholics are to Christ. Take your faith-based economics and go away.

      --
      That is all.
    54. Re:Can you say... by slazzy · · Score: 1

      Seems like a good idea, but what's to stop them from selling the old meds to say 100 customers per year, so it's technically not "abandoned" ?

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
    55. Re:Can you say... by StillAnonymous · · Score: 1

      In America, these wonderful pharma corps have also purchased a law that says you can't import your drugs from another country. YOU are not allowed to take advantage of "the global market".

      THEY, on the other hand, can shop around for labour where they see fit, even to the detriment of the populace in their corp's home land. The same land that allowed them to gain their massive wealth through protections and assistances.

      Never mind, citizen, the fact that this law is actually breaking the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.

    56. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 2

      But think of it: fundamentally insurance is a finite pool that insures against finite losses. Home owners insurance, for example, only pays out at most what the replacement value of your home is, and car insurance only pays out at most what is the replacement value of your car.

      This model clearly breaks down--even in government-run "single payer" systems (such as the example I gave about British health care) when you come up against the potentially unbounded cost of a major medical emergency.

      After all, what is the replacement value of a human being? $100,000? $1 million? $10 million?

      What that strongly suggests to me is that as a society we place more value on preserving human life regardless of cost, regardless of the fact that this cannot properly be handled in a free market environment.

      And by definition in the edge cases where the free markets break down is where society should step up and socialize costs.

      This isn't a matter of "privatizing the losses"; the breakdown has to do with the potentially unbounded cost of health care for an individual due to circumstances that cannot be properly predicted. For example, I know someone who needs nearly continuous care for the simple reason that she was unfortunately in a car accident that wasn't her fault. Allowing her to die because it's too expensive to let her live is not an option, and assuming that corporations are boundless fonts of endless money is absurd--and penalizing an insurance company because it is unable to cover an unexpected multi-million dollar loss (because as a society we don't want her to die) doesn't really fit the notion of insurance as covering a finite (and maximum) amount.

      Thus, door 'C': socialize high-cost patients.

      We already do something akin to this with Medicare; the whole point of Medicare was to cover the expenses of the elderly rather than having those expenses covered by private insurance. (And the structure of Medicare is pretty similar to what I'm proposing, with Medicare effectively serving as a back-stop against private supplemental insurance. We just think of Medicare as the base-line insurance and supplemental insurance as covering the 'gaps', when in some sense it's really the other way around.)

    57. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, you've never heard of the USPS have you? Government makes the rule that everyone must be treated for everything, regardless of ability to pay, which creates the losses. You don't want people to not get treatment they can't pay for - so help them pay for it, that's welfare. You want to enforce rules on a business to ensure it's not profitable, you either back that up with money or you make that business a loser.

      Socializing the health care system completely turns it into one big welfare system, instead of just a little part of it. No other way of looking at it.

      Best thing for big-government minds is that it's 1/6 of the economy. Put that into government, you can't ever shut down government again. The people in charge will always win. It's rolling completely downhill. We're looking over the edge right now.

      I completely don't understand why everyone wants to work for the government. Once your livelihood depends on it, it's much more difficult to fight it, especially as long as the omnibus spending bills continue. The Ted Cruze example is exactly "do whatever the Executive wants or we shut the government down and tell people it was your fault." They're not about to compromise - shutting the government down can *only* work in their favor.

    58. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure there does. Back in the day, Incorporation required *an act of congress* to approve or change the founding documents (purpose) of a corporation. "Build railroads across the United States.", etc. If a corporation failed to pursue its purpose, it wasn't a corporation anymore and was dissolved. Exiting the business _did_ mean shutting down or selling off all operations.

    59. Re: Can you say... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I understood it perfectly, thanks.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    60. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That objection is solved by carefully delineating the drug itself into (non-)patentable components as with other inventions. Obvious candidates for the parts would be: the functional groups that generate therapeutic action, the functional groups that constitute the delivery system, and the functional groups that enable desired interaction with other drugs or diagnostic compounds. That would kill the practice of patenting redecorated (e.g., through methylation, hydroxylation, isomerization, salting, etc.) compounds that have the same functional characteristics of existing drugs while encouraging the invention and publication of functional groups that can be interchanged and combined with other inventions.

    61. Re:Can you say... by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      Health care and drug research should be done by the government. It's provably cheaper and gives better healthcare results. Also private drug companies choose to not research or make cures for minor diseases, because the profit margins are not big enough.

    62. Re:Can you say... by demonlapin · · Score: 2

      doctors have to swear this

      No, we don't. Most medical schools do feature some form of the Hippocratic Oath as part of either their induction or graduation ceremonies, but it's purely symbolic. Hospitals have certain legal requirements to treat patients who show up, and members of the medical staff of that hospital may be required to treat those patients as long as they want to retain privileges to treat patients at that hospital, but there is no general obligation to treat anyone who shows up at your clinic door.

      This is a terrible summary anyway. They are moving production from a twice-a-day formulation to a once-a-day formulation, because the patent on the latter has a little more life on it. Nothing is stopping doctors from prescribing the older formulation. It's just that generic drug makers can't start making the extended release (XR) form yet, and so any prescription for the XR will be filled with the brand name rather than a generic.

      The idea that healthcare isn't a business is crazy. Even purely socialized medicine like the VA or the NHS has to be a responsible steward of the public's money.

    63. Re:Can you say... by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      I see no benefit to society in subsidizing a profitable industry. If you look at the financial statements of American drug companies you see they spend very little on R&D. http://www.pfizer.com/files/in... (page 31) These guys spend less than 15% per year on R&D.

    64. Re:Can you say... by Wycliffe · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      I agree that it's insane to require a company to manfacture a specific product against their will but in the case of a life saving
      medicine, they should probably be required to open source/release the patent of the product if they cease manufacturing it.
      That would allow someone else to manufacture it if there is a demand.
      A company shouldn't be required to produce an unprofitable product but it shouldn't be able to prevent a competitor or
      non-profit from doing so.

    65. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Car manufacturers are often required to make sure parts are available for "older products".

      This is about flipping to a "new and improved" version just to renew the patent and is fairly common in the drug industry.
      About time they started to put an end to this practice.

    66. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because your great uncle possibly made some poor (but understandable) choices in a hopeless case, we should just let people who can't afford treatment for curable conditions die?

      I'm glad you weren't there to make the call when my daughter was born by emergency Caesarian, since she likely would have been stillborn otherwise, and I still would have been bankrupted for life. Instead, we have a happy and healthy child who's about to turn 12, her mother and I are both solvent, and this did not damage Australia's economy in the slightest, even though the government was kind enough to foot most of the bill.

      I'm truly sorry for your family's tragedies, but you've made some very fucked up conclusions.

    67. Re:Can you say... by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      But does anyone in the debate consider the possibility that ER visits only represent a very small percentage of the overall costs to the health care system? Does anyone consider the possibility of perhaps just socializing the costs for ER visits--by using taxpayer dollars to implicitly insure the uninsured who use an ER, while leaving the rest of the system alone?

      It may be "a very small percentage of the overall costs to the health care system," but it's a large cost to many hospitals.

      The best (and cheapest) solution is not to have the government pick up the ER tab, it's to get those frequent fliers into a place where they can (1) regularly see a doctor or specialists, (2) consistently manage their chronic condition(s), and (3) not have to use the ER for basic medical care.

      Some hospitals have proactively set up programs to do exactly this.
      They were eating the ER cost anyways and it costs them less to pay for normal medical care for those patients.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    68. Re:Can you say... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      It makes sense to write the laws based on that intent and to interpret the laws based on how they are written.

      This is a horrible thing being done by the drug company but the correct action is to fix the laws, not allow judges to create new ones out of thin air.

    69. Re:Can you say... by Richy_T · · Score: 1

      So all the drug companies will do is spin off small sub-companies that own the rights to the drugs in question then defund and de-personnel them.

      And make sure to "campaign contribute" to the right politicians to ensure this remains legal.

      The correct response is to pass laws that removes patent protection on these drugs and allow generics to enter the market. Probably at a tiny fraction of the price of the original drug also. If the new drug really is that much better than the old one, it will succeed in any case.

    70. Re:Can you say... by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      In this case the patent doesn't expire until July. The company is moving people over to a once a day pill now so that when the patent for the twice a day pill expires people won't want to go back to having to take a pill two times a day even if it saves them money.

    71. Re:Can you say... by stjobe · · Score: 1

      you are effectively requiring someone to act against his will and work for the company without being able to quit--which is akin to slavery.

      Isn't that the whole idea behind capitalism in the first place? Make people act against their will and work for a company without being able to quit? Sure, you can quit working for a specific company, but it's a bit harder to quit working for any company.

      There's some delicious irony in forcing the company owners into the same shoes as their employees - I approve of your idea :)

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
    72. Re:Can you say... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      Your view of the American system is hopelessly naive. It is already a complicated mix of public / private - so complex that there are literally tens of thousands of people involved in figuring out the minute details of how to actually deliver care. CMMS (Centers for Medicare / Medicaid Security) is a government entity that both pays money - directly to providers and to other companies and, simultaneously, regulates payments AND sets standards for 'private' companies to pay.

      Medicaid (a government entity paid for by both states and the Federal government) IS the 'insurer of last resort' for complex, very ill patients.

      There is nothing 'either / or' about this system. In fact, one of the biggest complaints about the system is in fact, that it is so "OR" - so friggin complex that nobody can figure it out. This leads to administrative waste, poor care and job security for those tens of thousands of people. Just about the worst system you could have come up with.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    73. Re:Can you say... by mspohr · · Score: 1

      The generic versions do not go on sale until July. The evil drug company wants to discontinue the older soon to be generic version and force everyone to switch over to the new expensive patented version before July, thus leaving the generic manufacturers with no market.
      Step 3. Profit!!

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    74. Re:Can you say... by John+Jorsett · · Score: 1

      yes, requiring a company WHO IS IN THE HEALTH-CARE BUSINESS to continue saving lives and not taking profits as the first thing.

      yes, makes sense to me. but then again, I'm a human being, not a pycho CEO or politician.

      there should be a law: if you are in the healthcare business (which is your choice) then you MUST put patients first above all else.

      doctors have to swear this. why not the makers of drugs and such? it would fix a LOT of what is broken with the western world, if we did that. think of how much GOOD would be done to humanity, as a whole!

      Why stop there? Let's force more companies to GO INTO the health care business, and sell the products the government mandates at prices government specifies. Google and Apple have a lot of cash on hand, let's make them put it to work for the benefit of "humanity, as a whole".

    75. Re: Can you say... by C0R1D4N · · Score: 1

      Is there a reason drugs are patented and not just kept trade secrets like the colonels secret recipe? Is it that easy to reverse engineer them?

    76. Re:Can you say... by Bengie · · Score: 2

      -by using taxpayer dollars to implicitly insure the uninsured who use an ER, while leaving the rest of the system alone?

      It's cheaper to treat the issue before to go to the ER. The ER is about 10x more expensive than just letting them see the doctor in the first place. Since they can't afford a normal doctor, then tax payers still foot the bill, but now it's 10x higher.

    77. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The profit dies that job. OTOH zhis shows how fucked up the whole thing has become. The patent system tha could even habe some benefits for society and patent holders, has inherent Problem that scumbags will abuse it Mike this company dies. For other Patents this may be less apparent but in healthcare its, is different.
      How long before we geht a medicine that purposedly get rid of a part of the problem only turning acutly sick into rent payers till the rest of their lives ensuring profit base for a company.

    78. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If doctors are so great, why don't they make the medicines themselves?

    79. Re:Can you say... by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      So, if we accept that a "slippery slope" argument is valid, that will lead to "all or nothing" arguments also being valid? :)

    80. Re: Can you say... by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      The colonels secret recipe: Take 7 seas italian dressing mix, put in blender and powder. Add to flour used in breading chicken. Flour, egg wash, flour. Let sit for 10-15 minutes for breading to set. Fry chicken.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    81. Re:Can you say... by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      If you own millions in assets, I'm sure you've heard some advice to diversify, right? If you've got even half your assets outside the company, you've still got millions of dollars left.

      Frankly, I don't care about a millionaire losing half their money because of their own stubbornness. They'll be fine.

    82. Re:Can you say... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      That's effectively what they are. They don't do the testing.

      They do banning, which is NOT "effectively" what he talked about.

      The FDA should not be banning things. Speak from that perspective when you wish to trot out your anti-libertarian bullshit. Whats that? Can't do it without the strawmen? yeah... you can't.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    83. Re:Can you say... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      First of all the 'no profit' argument that is used here is a wrong - the company still makes a profit in this particular medicine and decision to stop production was made only to stop generic makers from being able to continue from the point the patent expires.
      This said one can imagine that (possibly oversimplified) analysis of options available to company and society (and its arm called state) gives: either produce the drug till patent expires or if you cannot then you declare bankruptcy and pass over to for instance: generic producers (which as per actions and motivations of the company were just waiting for it anyway).
      So all the bollocks about what the owners have to do is pointless. They are not obliged to do anything under normal conditions. Possibly a court can force them to do things like it does to us all to follow the laws, pay taxes, serve in the army if need be etc. But I think we are far from that point as the drug still brings money.

    84. Re:Can you say... by Rockoon · · Score: 1

      Patents have traditionally had an exploitation requirement: you can't just patent something and then sit on it...

      You missed the step where they have to disclose, to the public, their invention. Thats why you CAN patent something and then do nothing with it. If you dont want to profit from it before the time is up, then the jokes on you.

      This is also why many of the techniques that Intel uses to manufacture chips are not patented. They do not want to disclose, to the public, all of their methods.

      Intel now sits on un-patented techniques that it no longer uses, and that my clueless friend is "sitting on it."

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    85. Re:Can you say... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      It is not bakshish that is stopping doctors from prescribing generic in this case. It is rather the law on what is to be prescribed - generics if the same branded drug exists. If you stop production of old drug on which patent expired and started production and marketing of a new slightly different under different brand then this rule does not apply, generic makers lose out market share and new brand which is only slightly different from older one (as you suggest) can make bigger profits again. BTW: the issue as per linked articles is not with lack of profits (they made more than a billion on this drug alone last year) but production facilities (or so they say). If they cannot produce the shit then they should release the old patent - sell it to generic maker or make it free for what I care. That is not what they want - they aim at market share to maximize profit. This would be OK in anything else or rather it would go unnoticed but in medicine costs are so high and demand is forced by suffering of patients, that this makes courts decide so. In other words court does not think company should be in business of riding IP laws but in making and selling medicine.
      This is a sidetrack but still important one I think. The way free market was alleged to function is to provide cheapest goods for the customers and biggest profits for the businesses. That is inherent conflict that no market can resolve as big profit is there only for limited time and product becomes cheap over time. Companies ride the patent war to increase profit knowing very well that patients are forced to take medications by their suffering. Come to think of it unholy aliance of IP rigihst and privatized healthcare is worse than racket schemes mafias of different origins have run trough cities of the world since ?

    86. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That day, the FDA banned the drug. It cited a study that found that the drug was linked with something bad, I think maybe suicidal thoughts.

      But then she found that the study was produced by the company that made the brand name version of the drug, which had competition by generics by that point.

      Sounds like or the same as neurontin, used for pain, accused of suicidal thoughts and available still as generic. If not, the same play book was being used to push it off the market. Double check your sources, you may have been lied to (the horror).

    87. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well at least three other dictator-wanna-bes have modded you up.

    88. Re:Can you say... by w3woody · · Score: 1

      Can I have half your money?

    89. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... the money beyond that cap comes from the government ...

      That's a monosopny guaranteeing purchase of a product regardless of its cost. That's worked so well for US student loans. Most governments do it the other way around. That is, they pay the first $x of the medicine and the consumer pays the rest. This encourages big-pharma to limit costs and removes the profit incentive for ever-greening. It encourages governments to enforce sunsets on patent monopolies and ban big-pharma creating buy-out monopolies.

    90. Re:Can you say... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Why is it that any suggestion that open-market elements be included in the medical system gets treated as Ayn Rand throwing sick children into snowbanks? Medicine has been a fourteenth-century Guild Of The Silversmiths for so long that it cannot imagine any role for market forces, that's why. But as healthcare goes on pricing itself out of the market, this attitude is absolutely going to change.

      In my state we already have busloads of Sun City retirees being taken across the border to relive their college days dealing drugs, but this time to get their prescriptions filled. And these are regular folk, not ideologues of any kind.

    91. Re:Can you say... by swillden · · Score: 1

      What that strongly suggests to me is that as a society we place more value on preserving human life regardless of cost, regardless of the fact that this cannot properly be handled in any environment.

      FTFY.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    92. Re:Can you say... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      did anyone consider the possibility of the government backstopping insurance companies for high-expense patients, by (for example) putting a cap on the amount of money an insurance company must pay out in the lifetime of an individual (call it $1 million)--then when you hit that cap, the money beyond that cap comes from the government,

      The problem with this is similar to the problem with saying "The emergency room is a special case!". Different payers at different levels give rise to different, conflicting incetnives that raise the cost for the system as a whole.

      Imagine Patient A is ensured by Company B. Any costs beyond X are picked up by the government. Now, A gets sick, and has two treatments available. The first (costs X/2) has a 50% chance of working off the bat, and a 50% chance of costing 10X if complications occur. The second costs X (or any number higher than X) and pretty much is assured of working. Maximizing societies total pool of resources devoted to insurance says the second option. Maximing Company B's profits says take the first.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    93. Re:Can you say... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Any law made like that could almost certainly be used to ensure that any Patent YOU might ever have could be voided if you weren't making the product the day the patent was issued, and every day thereafter.

      "Certainly?"

      That law could only be used if I had a patent on a drug that people needed to treat a horrible disease, and I wanted to stop producing the drug so I could force them to buy a more expensive drug, and deliberately protect myself from competition from cheaper drugs.

      In other words, that law could only be used against me if I tried to prevent the free market from working.

      That's law is not likely to be used against me, because I'm not a multi-millionaire greedhead who wants to make even more millions by exploiting sick people.

      (And by the way most of that money -- $3-400 a month -- is paid for by the federal government, through Medicare and Medicaid, after the patients are driven bankrupt by the cost of their disease.)

    94. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice to see that there IS a value for human life, too bad it's a monatary value....

      That's socialising the losses and privaising the losses. That's using tax money to let the insurance companies cream off only he most profitable bits while making the taxes pay for the unprofitable bits.

      Hence why I say we should stop calling it a health CARE industry. The lives that matter are the ones who only put money in, not take money out.

      And before anyone attacks me for not reading the possible sarcasm tags, yes I can read them. I just don't find it amusing, when someone somewhere is thinking the samething in a serious context with real consquences for the innocent.

    95. Re:Can you say... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      I'd like to know what the name of the drug is.

      The FDA doesn't usually "ban" drugs. They usually "request" that the drug manufacturer cease production. If the manufacturer thinks that the drug is still useful, and wants to continue to produce the drug, he can negotiate with the FDA to continue selling it with restrictions.

      If it's an effective drug, you might be able to get a supply from Europe or Asia.

    96. Re:Can you say... by nbauman · · Score: 1

      That day, the FDA banned the drug. It cited a study that found that the drug was linked with something bad, I think maybe suicidal thoughts.

      But then she found that the study was produced by the company that made the brand name version of the drug, which had competition by generics by that point.

      Sounds like or the same as neurontin, used for pain, accused of suicidal thoughts and available still as generic. If not, the same play book was being used to push it off the market. Double check your sources, you may have been lied to (the horror).

      It does sound like a garbled version of the Neurontin (gabapentin) story. Gabapentin is still available. It has a lot of problems.

      If anecdotal evidence is in order, a friend of mine was taking Neurontin. He got into a fight on the job (the other guy started it, and he fought back) and was fired. I called the FDA and one of their doctors told me that one of the reported side effects of Neurontin was aggression. It's not the kind of drug you'd want people to be buying on the free market.

    97. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      money talks, bullshit walks

    98. Re:Can you say... by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      You appear to have lubricated that inclined surface more than adequately.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    99. Re:Can you say... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      In July, there will be a market for the generic... the people who don't want to pay top dollar for the new drug and were happy with the old drug. Why would all these people magically forget about how great the old drug was and not see that there's now a cheap alternative treatment?

      In the meantime, why would the new drug be more expensive than the old drug? The old drug is still under patent protection until July so they can set the price to be whatever they want without risk of losing share to competition... unless of course there is competition that you're not telling us about, like alternative treatments. And those will still exist for the new drug.

      The stories I've heard are more along the lines of the drug company introducing a genuinely superior product.. not necessarily in its effectiveness, but in something tangential like easy of administration. A 24-hour tablet instead of taking 6 pills throughout the day. A non-drowsy version.

      Then the generic comes along but it's for the old method, which is now seen as crappy by consumers. So many people still pay more for the new drug.

      That actually makes sense and there's not really anything wrong with it. That's good actually... now there's a cheap version and a premium version and people can choose.

    100. Re:Can you say... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      You've overabstracted and that leads to false equivalences. It's like saying "You don't like chocolate, and you don't like strawberry, but you claim you actually like pistachio ice cream??? Nonsense! You said you don't like 'flavors' and pistachio is also a 'flavor'!"

      Complaining about one or two specific either/or arguments is not the same as complaining about all either/or arguments.

    101. Re:Can you say... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      The idea of regular/preventive care saving money is not established. Some studies have shown reduced costs, others have shown increased costs. If it were settled, then all hospitals would do what you described, because all hospitals want to save money while also providing better care.

    102. Re:Can you say... by stdarg · · Score: 1

      Sorry, do you actually believe what you wrote?

      Let's say it's 9am. My pediatrician's office is open. The urgent care down the road is open. The ER is open. My child has a fever of 105F.

      Why on Earth do you think the *real cost* of treating my child at the ER is 10x greater than at my pediatrician's office or the urgent care place? Do you think regular pediatricians make $200k/year, but ER p ediatricians make $2 million/year? Do ER nurses make 10x more salary than regular nurses? Does infant Tylenol cost 10x more when an ER buys it?

      If ER is 10x more expensive, that means they are doing cost-sharing between unprofitable and profitable services. A thug with a gunshot wound may cost a lot to treat, and may end up not paying, so they jack up the prices of infant Tylenol to cover for it. It's a poor-man's insurance scheme for doctors... people facing emergencies may not pay, so soak the ones who do pay.

      The thing is, if you successfully divert all the people with fevers away from the ER and over to urgent care, that doesn't magically make the ER more cost efficient. It doesn't actually save money. It just gets rid of some of the cost-sharing. So other services that you can't shift get even more expensive.

      And if you're simply talking about preventive care making emergencies happen less frequently, studies are inconclusive about whether that actually saves money on average. The cost of preventive care over a 50 year period is more than the ER cost of a single episode.

    103. Re:Can you say... by buybuydandavis · · Score: 1

      ...overturned on Appeal?

      I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

      Oh no, that's not crazy. The crazy thing that will never be allowed is for people to be free to purchase the drug from any producer in the world that wants to provide it. Freedom is just crazy talk.

      Controlling companies benefitting from a legally protected market is entirely predictable.

    104. Re: Can you say... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      That's not an accurate recipe: KFC is pressure-fried, not just regular [pan|deep]-fried.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    105. Re:Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is physically impossible for healthcare to price itself out of the market.
      it is not a rational basis market.

      if i tell you this pill will save your life and it costs 7$ a pill, you'll take it.
      if i tell you this pill will save your life and it costs 7000$ a pill, you'll find a way exhausting every means possible in order to take it.

    106. Re:Can you say... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Yes because who needs safe medicine, safe food, and controls to prevent companies from killing customers?
      the market solves all.....in fantasy land.

      meanwhile back in the real world we acknowledge that the market doesnt solev all, that people dont have the time to be fully informed on every thing, and companies cannot be trusted to not abuse people for a buck.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    107. Re:Can you say... by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      Emergency Rooms don't need to treat minor ailments. They only need to treat someone if they have something threatening, and they can not be safely transferred to another hospital.

    108. Re:Can you say... by doccus · · Score: 2

      Look, what these snakes are doing is unethical and despicable.The whole pharamaceutical industry is full of rats who only care about their own interests. Any roadblock to their devious practices is welcome. In this case it's a really old trick they thought to implement.. changing one molecule on a chemical so that it's a "new" drug and then they have a brand new patent. The amount of research is negligible to nonexistent, as they already have a whole stockpile of isomers and other similar chemical formulations for almost every drug they supply. They probably have already done the testing as well and they just store the results. When a patent is about to expire they simply contact the FDA , supply the data and ask for approval. Similar drugs like this are also usualy fast tracked by the FDA to allow the company to market them quickly, as well. I mean, have you ever wondered why there's dozens of benzodiazepines (valium style drugs) on the market when the first ones worked so well? Patent expiry. Usually the ones with the best results are marketed first, and then they dig through their research, to find one to replace the one about to expire. Unfortunately, these often were passed over initially because of troublesome side effects, so often each new version is worse than the one it replaced. That's why it always seems that they get worse, or more addictive, or more serious side effects with each new drug. Yet they still get approval from their buddies at FDA. And if you need even more evidence of their complete moral corruptness, when I was more involved in the industry, my partner at the time (an RN) got offered the position of detail saleswoman, in large part because she was also an ex ramp model. She stormed out of the final interview, however, when it was clearly implied that she had to do *anything* to secure the sale (ie a guarantee that the MD would prescribe only their drugs) .. Basically she told me they expected her to prostitute herself for the deal. Although she refused, some other aquantances of ours did not. The money is, after all, extremely good...

    109. Re:Can you say... by lucien86 · · Score: 1

      The irony is that the US 'for profit' version costs in GDP about twice what the 'socialist' version costs while generally delivering a service that is in many ways inferior. Maybe that $100 billion of net profits per year has something to do with it.

      A true capitalist applies the test of evolution - which is the most efficient for the country/economy as a whole? - For the police, the courts, the army, healthcare, utilities where there are natural monopolies - socialist versions are often more efficient.. The US healthcare system is held up throughout the world as an example where 'market forces' have lead to inefficiency, exploitation, systematic overpricing, corruption, and often very bad service..

      --
      Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
    110. Re:Can you say... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      A slippery slope argument is that something, once introduced, will eventually dominate (otherwise it's not a slippery slope argument). It claims that we can't have a good mixture of the new and old, because the new will inevitably take over. Therefore, it logically implies an all or nothing argument. If you accept a particular slippery slope argument as valid (and there are slippery slopes in the world), then you accept the corresponding all-or-nothing argument as valid.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    111. Re:Can you say... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The real irony is that governments in the US pay more for health care per capita than the total health care costs for some countries with comparable health care. We could completely socialize medicine without raising the amount the government currently spends on health care and still have a decent system.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    112. Re:Can you say... by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      This is where patent law fails. Don't force them to keep producing the drug if it's not making them money. But then, they forfeit the rest of the time on the patent, too. Somebody else can start making the drug, freeing the original produce to go make their new thing. Anything else is patent-trolling. It's patenting something useful just to keep anyone else from making it, and in this case, it may be costing lives.

    113. Re:Can you say... by Fwipp · · Score: 1

      okay yes but you see

      I was telling a joke

    114. Re: Can you say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As long as it is on the shelf somewhere the regulation forces generics to be sold whenever possible. That is the reason they want to change brand name to still protected drug to eliminate foreign market share.

    115. Re: Can you say... by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Pressure frying is a relatively new thing. Col Sanders came up with that 20 years into his chicken cooking carrier. The breading was first.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    116. Re:Can you say... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      Why is it always "the evil drug company?!?!" It's the fucking government that created the patent system. We haven't even seriously tried to come up with something better, and even if we did the government would fuck it up.

      Like you would really do something different if you were running that company?

    117. Re:Can you say... by mspohr · · Score: 1

      If you think that the medical industry exists only to make money, then the drug companies are rational.
      All of your anger at the government is really anger at companies who have corrupted government. In the US, government works for corporations and rich people and has been completely corrupted (some people call this fascism).
      The government created patents to help companies, not people.
      Get rid of patents... problem solved... no more evil drug companies.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    118. Re:Can you say... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      The solution to the problems caused by the controls is always more controls, at least until everything spirals completely out of control.

    119. Re:Can you say... by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      The customer, his doctors and insurance companies would be free to look at the FDA data and decide for themselves what to medicate with.

      All this does is move liability for bad drugs to entities less able to defend against bogus claims. No doctor would prescribe anything with a scintilla of risk.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    120. Re:Can you say... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      WTF? Do you understand that government means: the absolute monopoly over the use of force? No one can corrupt the government unless the government is willing to be corrupted, in which case it would end up corrupt, corporations or not.

      A corrupted government is a consequence of a failed government model.

      Corporations that do not exploit a fascist system are just plain stupid. I don't blame them. What are they doing that's any different than individual people do, ie., gain an advantage by trying to get more than they produce, by having the government give them a share of someone else's output?

      Let me guess, you're the type that tries to maximize your tax obligations, volunteers all your free time for charitable work, and has started at least one companies that pays the workers 100% of revenue, pays the CEO the same wage as the custodian, makes no profits, and is experiencing steady growth.

  2. It's called "evergreening" by Mathinker · · Score: 5, Informative

    The practice of tweaking drugs like that is called evergreening.

    (I'd only heard about that term being used for the pharmaceutical industry practice, but the linked Wikipedia article implies it is a general term for all patents.)

    1. Re:It's called "evergreening" by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Interesting. The only time I had heard 'evergreen" before was in reference to characters/worlds/other fictional material, and referred to ensuring continued cultural relevance (e.g. Mickey Mouse).

      But it explicitly talked about the pragmatic issues... I suppose they already assumed perpetual ownership of the IP.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:It's called "evergreening" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't get is. What prevents the generic manufacturer from just using the old formula?

    3. Re:It's called "evergreening" by hierophanta · · Score: 1

      Interestingly enough, its also been happening with Phones and PCs in the last 5 years

    4. Re:It's called "evergreening" by Mathinker · · Score: 1

      The new formula is introduced before the expiration of the first patent. Patients who have been "weened" over to the new formula (via, for example, artificially limiting the supply of the old formula) will be less likely to go back to the old formula when it becomes generic.

      So yes, the generic manufacturers will be able to use the old formula; they just end up with a smaller market of customers for it, at least initially.

  3. I had this problem with a medication. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The company who makes it decided they wanted a new patent so they discontinued. They already had two versions of the medication but the second version was not prescribed as commonly. What's worse is that nobody knew this was going to happen, doctors or pharmacists. It took a few months to get an alternative in stock because of the sudden fake demand the manufacturer created throughout the industry.

  4. Scummy by 31415926535897 · · Score: 1

    It is a terrible thing for the drug company to force this switch.

    But doesn't this imply that the first drug can be created generically now? Can't we take Actavis out of the equation entirely by having Alzheimer's patients switch away from the company? Why must they take Actavis' new drug?

    1. Re:Scummy by Little_Professor · · Score: 1

      Read the article. The first drug can't be created generically until July when the patent expires. By then Actavis will have switched everybody to the new drug.

    2. Re:Scummy by Bengie · · Score: 5, Informative

      According to the article, the issue is that doctors in many areas are not allowed to prescribe generics directly. They must prescribe the name brand, and a generic may be substituted if it is identical to the name brand. In this case, the name brand would no longer be offered, meaning the generics may no longer be offered.

      Sounds like big drug makers lobbied to have these stupid rules made, and because of the rules, we have technical issues that could harm patients if a name-brand suddenly pulled a drug from the market. It's much easier to force a company to keep producing drugs than it is to change decades of medical rules.

    3. Re:Scummy by TubeSteak · · Score: 3, Informative

      According to the article, the issue is that doctors in many areas are not allowed to prescribe generics directly. They must prescribe the name brand, and a generic may be substituted if it is identical to the name brand. In this case, the name brand would no longer be offered, meaning the generics may no longer be offered.

      You might want to re-read TFA.

      Most generic drugs are dispensed because state laws allow or require pharmacists to substitute a cheaper generic when a doctor prescribes the brand-name drug. But if the brand-name version is different from the generic, then the substitution cannot be made.

      Nothing about not-prescribing generics directly.
      That would be ridiculous and insane.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    4. Re:Scummy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What prevents other companies from producing the older version after July and physicians prescribing the older (now generic) version?

    5. Re:Scummy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At all of the pharmacies I know (PA state law), the pharmacy is permitted to substitute a generic version unless a physician specifically indicates no substitutions...

    6. Re:Scummy by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Yes, it says pharmacists may substitute. I've never had a doctor prescribe a generic. Notice all of the wording is about substitution of the brand-name drug, but never does it talk about prescribing generics.

    7. Re:Scummy by Bengie · · Score: 1

      pharmacy is permitted to substitute a generic

      This is not the issue, the issue is doctors not prescribing generics. That is the whole current issue. There are already generics for this alzheimers drug, but if the name brand goes away, then the doctors will stop writing prescriptions for that drug meaning no more generics for a drug that no longer exists. Logically, the "drug" still exists, but not the name brand version of it, and that seems to be an issue with the way the current rules for prescribing medications.

    8. Re:Scummy by sjames · · Score: 1

      Given the problems in the U.S. from outrageously expensive healthcare, it's nearly a crime that doctors prescribe the latest and greatest patented name-brand drugs rather than preferring generics first. I simply cannot imagine that it could be worth hundreds a month to go from 2 pills a day to just 1.

      The IT equivalent would be insisting on a mainframe when a mid-sized white box server would get the job done.

    9. Re:Scummy by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      The free market.

  5. makes no sense by lseltzer · · Score: 2

    How do they insulate themselves from generic competition by stopping sales of their own brand name? If it's off-patent and there's demand then generic companies will offer it. If there's a sufficient advantage to the new one then doctors will order it in spite of the cost.

    1. Re: makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creating a bad name for the product, calling it inferior, beforevthe patent expires and competition can kick in.

    2. Re:makes no sense by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      How do they insulate themselves from generic competition by stopping sales of their own brand name?

      Step 1. Make a slightly new formulation (tweaked molecule, prodrug, extended release)
      Step 2. Blanket the information channels with advertising for the NEW BETTER product
      Step 3. Drop the price of your original drug to screw with the generic manufacturers ---They preempted this step by ending production entirely
      Step 4. Profit because everyone has moved to your NEW BETTER product, which has no competition.

      I personally take a XR medication, even though there are cheap generics for the older two-a-day formulation.
      If my insurance situation changed for the worse, I'd switch in a heartbeat, even though b.i.d. requires more discipline to take.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    3. Re: makes no sense by pepty · · Score: 1

      If that's all they do (soft switches), judges are fine with it. It's when they force patients to change to the new formulation before the patent runs out (hard switches) so that there is no generic substitute when the patent does run out that judges draw the line. Actavis tried a soft switch, investors were not satisfied, so they tried a hard switch.

    4. Re:makes no sense by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      I personally take a XR medication, even though there are cheap generics for the older two-a-day formulation. If my insurance situation changed for the worse, I'd switch in a heartbeat...

      The people in your insurance pool should see to it that you are removed from it, one way or another. Seriously. You are a selfish bastard. Fuck you.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  6. Despicable tactic, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does the new drug prevent generic clones of the old drug? If patients are used to the old drug and it works, wouldn't not offering it actually drive patients right into the open arms of generic manufacturers?

    1. Re:Despicable tactic, but... by Little_Professor · · Score: 1

      There are no generic formulations of the old drug available yet. It only goes off-patent in July. Actavis are trying to switch as many people as they can onto the new patented drug before then, killing demand for the old drug. So yes, companied can still produce clones of the old drug in July but by then everybody will be on repeat prescriptions of the new drug, and most doctors won't bother to switch back.

    2. Re:Despicable tactic, but... by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 2

      Well, if you accompany discontinuing the product with publicity about how dangerous it was (but then take the medicine, tweak the formula slightly, and re-release), nobody will be able to make the generic in a profitable way. This happened with Glaxo and Salmeterol inhalers (sold as Serevent). Like any other drug, it is dangerous when not used properly. I found it was the only drug that relieved my asthma symptoms (the discussion about how it is far more profitable to treat as opposed to cure asthma is something for another time)

      Always very expensive, but shortly before it was to turn generic, it was discontinued. They then combined Salmeterol with a steroid, re-released it, and continued to make a huge amount of money off of it. It has since lost patent protection, but no company is willing to make a generic, for fear of lawsuits I'm sure. Glaxo can afford a reasonable defense, but I'm sure the generic companies don't have the profit margins to be able to afford the risk of a suit.

    3. Re:Despicable tactic, but... by rossdee · · Score: 1

      When the generics become available, the insurance companies will say they will only pay for the generic drug, after all they are thte ones paying.

    4. Re: Despicable tactic, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a whole different pile of shit that Americans have to put up with, having the Best Healthcare System In The World (tm).

      Sometimes, for whatever stupid reason, certain forumlas of stuff just don't work (or work as well) for some people. Never seen a good reason for that except the theory that some of the "inactive ingredients" have something to do with it.

      Regardless, if you're one of those and you have a health insurance company that has a stupid formulary you're fairly well screwed.

      Thanks again, capitalism! Another win for human advancement.

    5. Re:Despicable tactic, but... by pepty · · Score: 2

      (the discussion about how it is far more profitable to treat as opposed to cure asthma is something for another time)

      I think a cure for asthma would be a goldmine, especially compared to a new treatment. Imagine a best case scenario "take a pill, your asthma is cured, works for pretty much all patients" drug, then look at the numbers:

      Market: 25 million+ asthmatics in the USA. A new treatment would have to compete against all of the existing treatments. A cure would own the market, full stop. It would displace pretty much all of the brand and generic treatments. Insurance companies would have to cover it. Medicare/medicaid would have to cover it. Pretty much everyone with decent insurance would end up on your cure.

      Costs: R&D costs ... hard to compare. But for marketing costs: A billion dollar marketing campaign for a new asthma treatment would capture a fraction of the market for a few years. For a cure, pediatricians would be beating down your door instead of you spending out the wazoo trying to get them to accept free samples. A cure would generate so much attention in the news, medical conferences, literature, etc. that the only marketing costs would be in explaining how to administer it.

      Price: Treatment: set by the cost of competing treatments. Cure: list price, $30k a pop in the USA, easy. Actual average price would end up being more like $15k after various discounts.

      Revenue stream: This is the biggest advantage of a cure. With a treatment, you have to wait for your profit from each patient: money comes in dribs and drabs from each patient over a decade, and you never know when they might switch to another drug or just stop taking asthma drugs. For a cure, you get all of your money from each patient up front on day one. A dollar earned by the cure is worth about two dollars earned by the treatment, because you get that dollar much sooner and with much less risk. Really. By the time a competitor comes out with a "me too" asthma cure, you've already cured most of the existing asthmatics ($15k x 15M patients = $225 billion dollars, spread over ~4 years), so you will only be competing for new cases.

    6. Re:Despicable tactic, but... by Matt_Bennett · · Score: 1

      Once upon a time, the medical opinion about ulcers was that they were caused by stress, it was not until 1994 that the NIH published the opinion that most ulcers were caused by Helicobacter pylori, and in 2005 the Nobel Prize in medicine was awarded to Marshall and Warren. About the first time I heard about antibiotics curing ulcers was by a radio call-in doctor (an actual MD) in the mid-80's- he also preached about a cure for asthma involving long term antibiotics. It may be only applicable to specific types of asthma- but there has been very little research into this cure (admittedly, there are real risks to long term antibiotic usage)- which involves not a new medicine, but the administration of an existing medicine.

      Unfortunately, it is an economic decision by the drug maker- continue with an existing, proven (multi billion dollar/year) revenue stream, or risk that revenue stream by developing a treatment with a very small revenue potential (I believe your estimates for the cost are *way* higher than the market would bear).

      The unfortunate part is that health care is not about health first, it is about money first.

    7. Re: Despicable tactic, but... by Mr.CRC · · Score: 1

      Yeah, just think of the bonanza of choices of formulation you would be given under socialism!

  7. Would this apply to Debian, too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As we all know, Debian recently integrated systemd into its core system.

    As we also know, systemd is rife with serious problems that just cannot be fixed. These are problems with its Windows-like, monolithic do-all-things-and-do-them-poorly philosophy that inherently conflicts with the UNIX philosophy of small applications doing one thing extremely well.

    I see a parallel between this case and systemd. There's no beneficial reason for Debian to be including systemd; it's just change for the sake of change itself.

    So I think that Debian should abide by the spirit of this decision, and come to the realization that unnecessary change is just that: unnecessary!

    Clearly, this would mean that systemd should be stripped out of Debian. This would be change with a purpose: to restore stability, reliability, and trust in the Debian product and brand.

  8. I don't get it... by GoddersUK · · Score: 0

    an antitrust lawsuit accusing the drug company of forcing patients to switch to the newer version of the widely used medicine to hinder competition from generic manufacturers.

    Were the drug company sending hit squads round to take out the doctors that were prescribing generics? Did they launch a tactical air strike on the generics factories? Hijack the lorries carrying the generics?

    I'm sorry but, so far as I can tell, manufacturers are free to manufacture the generic, doctors are free to prescribe it and patients are free to take it. I don't see why Actavis should be forced to produce a drug they no longer want to produce and I don't see what this can possibly achieve because once the drug leaves patent protection the generics manufactures will be able to manufacture it regardless and, before then, patients will have to buy the pricier brand-name drug anyway.

    1. Re:I don't get it... by arthurh3535 · · Score: 5, Informative

      an antitrust lawsuit accusing the drug company of forcing patients to switch to the newer version of the widely used medicine to hinder competition from generic manufacturers.

      Were the drug company sending hit squads round to take out the doctors that were prescribing generics? Did they launch a tactical air strike on the generics factories? Hijack the lorries carrying the generics?

      I'm sorry but, so far as I can tell, manufacturers are free to manufacture the generic, doctors are free to prescribe it and patients are free to take it. I don't see why Actavis should be forced to produce a drug they no longer want to produce and I don't see what this can possibly achieve because once the drug leaves patent protection the generics manufactures will be able to manufacture it regardless and, before then, patients will have to buy the pricier brand-name drug anyway.

      I don't think the patent had actually expired yet on the older medicine. It was just getting close to expiring. Drug companies have figured out the 'new' way to keep you off of generics is to 'improve' the formula so that your doctor wants to keep you on the new one. I'm on Tribenzor, which is literally just a mix of three regular and cheap blood pressure medicines, but it's 'not generic' so I have to pay a much more expensive rate.

      So yeah, this is just scum sucker scam way of maximizing profits at the cost of the patient and his insurance.

      --
      No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
    2. Re:I don't get it... by Bengie · · Score: 1

      as I can tell, manufacturers are free to manufacture the generic, doctors are free to prescribe it and patients are free to take it.

      According to the lawsuit, in some areas, doctors are not free to prescribe generics, but a generic may be substituted at the pharmacy. If the name-brand version of the drug does not exist, then that drug may not be prescribed, meaning the generic versions may not be substituted.

      While I've never thought of this before, now that I look at it, I've never had my doctor prescribe a generic drug for me before. Always a name brand, and then the doctor would tell me I could also ask for a generic at the pharmacy if I wanted. My prescriptions were always for Adderall, even though I told my doctor my insurance did not cover it. When I went to the pharmacy, I would ask for them to give me the generic version, which is just some brand of dextroamphetamine.

      At no point did I ever think my doctor was not allowed to directly prescribe just "dextroamphetamine".

    3. Re:I don't get it... by GoddersUK · · Score: 0

      Neither TFS nor TFA state that the new version is any more expensive than the (non-generic) old version. And, even if it is, that isn't the issue they're claiming is a problem. They're claiming that a patent on a subtly different drug will stop generics manufacturers making generics. Which is bollocks, because the new patent will only cover the differences between the old and the new drugs.

      I'm going to guess that the reason your on Tribenzor, rather than a generic, is because there's some perceived advantage (either by your or your doctor), not because the evil nasty drug companies are forcing you to be.

    4. Re:I don't get it... by GoddersUK · · Score: 1

      in some areas, doctors are not free to prescribe generics ... If the name-brand version of the drug does not exist, then that drug may not be prescribed

      What the actual flying ****! Were the lawmakers in bed with big pharma or something? That's ridiculous. What needs fixing there, though, is not anti trust actions against drug companies but stupid, stupid laws.

      You'd think health insurers would have kicked up a fuss about this because the bulk of the increased cost must fall on them.

    5. Re:I don't get it... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Were the drug company sending hit squads round to take out the doctors that were prescribing generics? Did they launch a tactical air strike on the generics factories? Hijack the lorries carrying the generics?

      Always so negative. In a more positive look, that good doctor perhaps got a free cruise or otherwise positive incentive for knowing that the patented version was infinitely better than the generic crap. "After all, you do want to be sure that dad is getting the best possible treatment for his Alzheimer's don't you? The caffiene in the new patented formula might just have some synergy with the real drug in it, and he might be the first person to go into remission. Now do you want to trust your father's mental state to some cheap generic knockoff?"

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    6. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to guess that the reason your on Tribenzor, rather than a generic, is because there's some perceived advantage

      To people who been through the medical industry meat grinder, your ideas about how this industry work sound quaint and naive.

    7. Re:I don't get it... by Morgon · · Score: 1

      Were the lawmakers in bed with big pharma or something?

      Not just 'were', and not just 'in bed', but wild kinky shit. This is pretty much how the US legal system's relationship with big business has operated for years.

      --
      [DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
    8. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, but if no one is using the older drug because it hasn't been made in 3 years then who is going to bother making the generic version.

      You really think profit driven companies don't do everything possible to minimize competiton?

    9. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the increased cost falls not on the insurers but who pays them.... i.e. the patients. It always gets re-distributed to the people paying the insurers

    10. Re:I don't get it... by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 1

      When your argument starts with something so ridiculous as hit squads, you should really stop to think if you have a point or not.

      Actavis has a fairly huge industry employing ex-cheerleaders (I am not exaggerating) telling doctors all about how Namenda is better than whatever else was available. Doctors are free to look up the generic name, but they don't. That's the problem you want to solve. Nothing in your statement shows you understand the problem, so you won't have a solution.

      Actavis now has pharma reps saying that Namenda is old hat, and Namenda XR is available. If the doc writes down Namenda XR, generics that can't be produced due to patents won't be.

      The basis of this lawsuit seems to be that taking the old version off the market means telling docs that the old version is off the market so switch everyone to the XR version. The article says specifically that doctors prescribe the brand name, and that generics are only filled because state or local laws require substitution when possible.

      It's true that this is "unprecedented and extraordinary", especially since critics refer to the practice as "evergreening" and "product hopping" - in other words it happens so often there is a name for it. As Actavis argues, there will be "unnecessary manufacturing" costs in keeping two lines open when only the newer one should be running. I don't follow the "marketing costs" argument.

      This is a poor decision, and a poorly argued case, because it basically is trying to get around the Constitutionally granted protection of a patent, and flies in the face of how business has been done for 30 years (considering the U.S and legally done only). If you object to this decision, it should be on that basis. Or the doctor education process, or the lack of patient education as to their options, or any number of other problems in the pipeline.

      Otherwise let me paraphrase what you said: "Dragons aren't real, so here are facts that, while true, demonstrate that I have no idea what's going on."

    11. Re:I don't get it... by fatwilbur · · Score: 1

      this is just scum sucker scam way of maximizing profits at the cost of the patient and his insurance.

      This is why the single payer system, and the negotiating leverage that comes with either allowing a product into market or not, result in a far, far better system for a country overall.

    12. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you understand.

      The move is to get everyone off the current drug so that when the patent expires there is no market for the generic. That way the drug company can continue to exclusively sell a drug that is not significantly different.

      Patents are there to give a company a limited monopoly to recoup their research and development costs. They've had 20 years to make a profit and fund research on significantly new drugs. It's time for them to sink or swim now.

      The judge is forcing the drug maker to temporarily continue making the drug right up until the patent expires so that the market for the old medication can stay in tact. If the new drug is really better than the old drug, we can expect the generics of the old drug to not sell that well. This will depend mostly on the marketing that Actavis manages to put together for the new drug. (Hence their complaint about how the marketing costs are going to harm their business)

    13. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ehm, the insurance companies like the expensive named medicine, because it increases insurance premiums.
      The big scam Nixon started, he actually explained this on his recordings in the oval office.

    14. Re:I don't get it... by MMC+Monster · · Score: 1

      I'm on Tribenzor, which is literally just a mix of three regular and cheap blood pressure medicines, but it's 'not generic' so I have to pay a much more expensive rate.

      Then you're part of the problem. Tell your physician that you want medications that you can afford without copays and you don't want to fall into a donut hole at the end of the year when you've maxed out your benefits for the year and have to pay full cost for a month or more.

      If your doc refuses to change to generic alternatives, there are two options. One is that there are no generics that can treat what you have, the other is that your doc is in the pocket of their local pharmaceutical reps.

      BTW, check out http://goodrx.com/ and put in your zip code to see what your medications cost at local pharmacies.

      --
      Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
    15. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My insurance company requires me to take the generics.

    16. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm going to guess that the reason your on Tribenzor, rather than a generic, is because there's some perceived advantage (either by your or your doctor), not because the evil nasty drug companies are forcing you to be.

      I'm going to guess that you are pretty naive and don't take a lot of medication. Maybe you should be?

    17. Re:I don't get it... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wait, you're blaming the drug company because your doctor writes a script for one drug instead of three? Did you ask your doctor?

  9. Hey look... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have a way to save you with a cheap drug but we are not gonna do it because we want you to pay a high price for your sanity.
    And yes we sleep well at night because, as corporate lackeys, we have no conscience.

  10. Explanation? by CanEHdian · · Score: 1

    Can somebody please explain why BigPharma creates a medication X (consisting of components A B and C) and patents it, then halfway through its life creates X+ (consisting of A B and D) and patents it again, this affects the patent for medication X? I should be able to create a generic for X using the old formula (A B and C) when the patent for X expires, regardless of any patents for X+, or Y.

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    1. Re:Explanation? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Then all that would happen is more lobbying to outlaw the old drug for some threadbare reason ("side effects" is usually cited. That the new drug has the same or worse side effects doesn't matter, oddly).

      If you need proof, just look up and down some of the latter drug laws and watch closely what has been outlawed and when, and whether you find some correlation with the date some drugs are approved. You might be in for a surprise.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re: Explanation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have plenty of time to say drug X is worse, destroying competition before it starts.

    3. Re:Explanation? by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Then all that would happen is more lobbying to outlaw the old drug for some threadbare reason ("side effects" is usually cited.

      Sound dangerous, like a pre-admission of guilt in a lawsuit.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Explanation? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      It doesn't affect the patent. It affects the prescribability.

      First, there is a break, when X cannot be prescribed (not made by the company, patent prevents generics), So the only option is X+1, which then becomes the entrenched standard.

      Also, some jurisdictions don't allow generics for X to be prescribed. X is prescribed, and the generic can be substituted. So, by stopping the sale, they prevent the generic.

      The latter can be fixed by changing the law... the former is a far more pernicious issue.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  11. "Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by dwheeler · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Stopping to make the original drug should cause immediate expiration of its patent. A patent is a government-created monopoly to encourage people to make the stuff. Clearly, if the company won't make it, there's no need for the patent. Requiring a company to make something they don't want to make is absurd; instead, just let others make it. And if they raise the prices substantially, perhaps require patent licensing in those cases (just as we did for music).

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
    1. Re:"Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by Trepidity · · Score: 1

      That does seem like the better solution, but probably not within the court's power. In an antitrust case a court can issue injunctions relating to a company's business practices or changes in business practices, but can't invalidate a patent. Congress could certainly pass such a law though, and probably should.

    2. Re:"Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1, Interesting

      So, how long should they have to "stop" to lose the patent?

      Short enough time that a fire at the factory would be sufficient to void the patent? Hmm, I can see a lot of factory fires at my more innovative competitors in the near future....

      So, how about they have to produce some of it annually or lose the patent? Hmm, well, I can mix up a couple doses in the lab every year and keep the patent forever, and it hardly costs me a thing.

      Note that you won't be able to phrase a law that does what you want without enough legal loopholes to drive a freight-train full of drug factories through.

      Do remember that the intent of patents is to ensure innovation. Note that the company in question (that's just been ORDERED to keep making a drug they no longer want to make) is discontinuing manufacture of the drug to replace it with a (nominally) better one. So, how encouraged are they going to be to innovate now?

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    3. Re: "Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stupid post.
      A company stops producing a product when it's not possible to order it from them anymore because they are no longer producing it.
      It's different from a fire or other incident, it's willingly stopping production and rejecting orders for a product.

    4. Re:"Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Short enough time that a fire at the factory would be sufficient to void the patent? Hmm, I can see a lot of factory fires at my more innovative competitors in the near future....

      Just because you are a psychopath does not indicate in any way that psychopaths are common. For incidences where the psychopathic CrimsonAvenger is an arsonist we have an entire army of law enforcement officers, prosecutors, and well-endowed cellmates to take care of the problem.

    5. Re:"Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can we apply the same to music, films & software too?

    6. Re:"Stop making" should equal "patent expired" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it's necessary for them to make something truly new/better to stay in business, rather than exploiting people, I'd wager they have a significant desire to innovate.

  12. Because patent still applies by dwheeler · · Score: 1

    My understanding is that currently a patent is still valid EVEN IF the drug is taken off the market. But I think that's the right solution: Change the rules so that if you take a drug off the market, the patent is immediately declared abandoned, and anyone else can make it.

    --
    - David A. Wheeler (see my Secure Programming HOWTO)
  13. A generic is availalbe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...overturned on Appeal?

    I'm sorry, that's just an insane ruling. REQUIRING a company to manufacture a specific product???

    Yeah, I think so too. FTFA:

    It obtained Namenda when it bought Forest Laboratories.

    The drug, known generically as memantine, is one of Actavis’s most important products.

    There's already a generic. So, what's the problem?

    1. Re:A generic is availalbe. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      It obtained Namenda when it bought Forest Laboratories.

      The drug, known generically as memantine, is one of Actavis’s most important products.

      There's already a generic. So, what's the problem?

      Drug company pays Doctor to prescribe it's products.

      Doctor prescribes new not really improved, yet patented product.

      Profit.

      The rest of us pick up the tab..

      In the continuum of medicines, the idea that a company can hold on to a specific recipe in perpetuity would rewuire us to go to the doctor for asprin, or simple antihistamines, as they simply add another ingredient as the patent expires.

      What a lot of people do not understand is that this is a strong anticompetitive movement. If all the drug manufacturer has to do is add sawdust to their med, re-patent it, and pay the doctors to prescribe it (bitch, please) it removes a lot of the incentive to develop anything new.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:A generic is availalbe. by Qzukk · · Score: 2

      There's already a generic

      There's already a generic name. The government, in all its benevolence, has been permitting drug holders to "lock in" their expiring drugs and prevent generics from being marketed for a certain period after it expires. There are even drug companies that pay other companies not to produce their drug so they can continue to sell the brand name (at an inflated cost to ensure there's a profit even after these payments).

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    3. Re:A generic is availalbe. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there a drug to help people understand that it's means it is?

    4. Re:A generic is availalbe. by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Is there a drug to help people understand that it's means it is?

      Yes, I believe the trade name name is pedanticassholeitol.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    5. Re:A generic is availalbe. by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      My health care providers will use generics first, that being clinic policy. I have no doubt that I'd be covered for expensive drugs if I actually needed them, but the need would have to be demonstrated. (I have been given free samples of expensive drugs that the doctor happened to have.)

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  14. 1968? by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

    Memantine (AKA Axura, Akatinol, Namenda, Ebixa, Abixa and Memox) has been around since 1968, why in the world is it still under patent? I fully understand why individuals/companies should be GRANTED LIMITED patents, and even why those patents should be longer for medical applications, but 46 years? From what I can understand the patent on this drug has been sold so many times its nowhere near the original developers, the constitution seems pretty clear that patents apply "to AUTHORS AND INVENTORS the exclusive right to THEIR respective writings and discoveries".

    1. Re:1968? by tepples · · Score: 1

      A different delivery of a drug (such as rapid or extended release) or the use of a compound to treat a different condition (such as Revatio getting reworked into Viagra) means a new invention and thus a new patent.

    2. Re:1968? by Dereck1701 · · Score: 1

      Maybe they should patent the pill then, but chances are that even its "design" is either non-patentable or not owned by them. The drug is still exactly the same compound. This sounds a little like patenting a "new" battery technology by gluing an LED to the side of your old batteries that glows if the battery is low. You can't (or shouldn't be able to) take two non-patentable items a stick them together and re-patent it.

    3. Re:1968? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that the patents should be the same length as books' copyright lengths. I'll let you decide what the appropriate lenght of time should be.

    4. Re:1968? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      why in the world is it still under patent?

      You're not understanding how patents work.

      For drugs, the drug (chemical) itself is not patentable. The process used to make the drug IS patentable. That's what's actually patented.

      You see, part of the problem with making chemicals is the process you use. You want a process that uses little energy (energy costs money), has high yields (every chemical reaction has an equilibrium point and for some processes, it means your desired product is only 10% of the entire thing at the end), etc. etc. etc.

      So when they tweak the process to produce slightly modified versions of the drug, that can generate a new patent because the patent describes exactly how to produce that drug - start with raw materials A, B, C, ... Z, then mix A and B and heat, ... etc.

      In fact, it's possible for a generic drug manufacturer to come up with a different way of making the drug before the patents expire.

  15. Self interest? by Opportunist · · Score: 0

    I somehow don't believe the judge that he suddenly sides with "the patient". He's more likely in the age bracket that will be affected by his judgement in the foreseeable future.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  16. The Reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The main arguments in favor of governments regulating against evergreening are that rapid entry of multiple generic competitors after patent expiry is likely to lower prices and facilitate competition, and that eventual loss of monopoly was part of the trade-off for the initial award of patent (or intellectual monopoly privilege) protection in the first place.

    You can also bet these companies got shed loads of tax breaks which helped cover costs of research.

  17. Confusing summary - there are no generics by nystul555 · · Score: 5, Informative

    The summary doesn't make clear whats going on. I've been dealing with this personally for several months and what Actavis has been doing is terrible, the judge made the right decision.

    They have been making the drug in question, Namenda, for many years and it has become a critical component of treating Alzheimers and several other related conditions. It is an instant release form.

    There are no generics, it is still under patent until later next year. What Actavis did was create a new version of the drug which is extended release, and patent that. Its the exact same thing but with some coating that makes part of it release more slowly.Earlier this year they announced that they were discontinuing the instant release version, and they stopped manufacturing it.

    Again, there are no generics yet, and no alternatives. The point was to force everyone to switch over to the extended release (which they have the patent on until 2025) BEFORE any other company could start making a generic version of the drug. This would make it extremely unlikely that any generic company would start making it at all since sales would be low and margins on generic medications aren't high. Most generic manufacturers don't have much in the way of a marketing budget, so once Actavis has gotten everyone prescribing the extended release version it would be too difficult for the generics to get doctors to switch back to the instant release version just because there was a cheaper option. Additionally, you don't want to change an Alzheimers patients medication any more than you have to, and since Actavis is forcing them to switch from the instant release to extended now you wouldn't want to switch them back to the instant just a year later, unless you had to.

    To be clear Actavis stated all of this in their shareholder report. They were confident this plan would prevent generic manufacturers from taking any significant amount of the sales.

    To make this much worse, Actavis stopped making the instant release without making nearly enough of the extended release. Google Namenda shortage to see the affects this has caused. Nursing homes have been forced to give patients their medication every other day, or instant some days and extended other days, because there isn't nearly enough to go around. I had to fill a 30 day Rx for it in September and had to contact 44 pharmacies to find one that had any (I was lucky and it had just arrived). People have been flying to other cities, even other states to fill the medication for their loved ones. Its been terrible for anyone suffering from Alzheimer's or any of the other conditions that it treats, as well as their families and the people providing care for them.

    1. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does the drug actually work?

    2. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actavis also discontinued a version of Asacol without adequate notice to doctors and pharmacies, which left me without medication for months because the limited supplies of alternatives were gone. This was all because the patent was expiring. As far as I'm concerned Actavis is actively involved in the business of threatening people with physical harm.

    3. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were you worse off without the drug (beyond any withdrawal symptoms)?

    4. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Interesting

      AFAIC the market has to remain free, the company in question must be able to do this of-course. The actual problem is government issuing patents in tge first place. Patents and copyrights protected by governments are the actual problem. Beyond that the government rules that doctors must prescribe the brand name and can only prescribe generics if they are exactly the same is a problem. FDA is the problem, it should not even exist. Blaming a company for HACKING the government laws to extend its own profits is disingenious. Everybody tries to protect their work and profits, that is the principle of self interest, that is the reason for competition, greed is good. The real problem is when greed can be backed up by the force of a government.

      Your givernment is causing you this pain. The company is making a rational choice. I am with the people making rational choices, allowing governments to destroy free market capitalism and competition by regulating business and allowing government to be involved in money is irrational choice.

    5. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a pretty shallow arguments you have there.

      1. This is a *PHARMA* company, not a tire company. Them not producing things can cause loss of lives.

      2. They chose to shut down to screw the sick out of more money. They know if generic becomes available as anyone is still on the equivalent therapy, that they will lose "customers". Their customers are physicians - patients are just the ones handing over the money.

      The company is acting sociopathically. And the judge fixed their decision a bit.

      It's rather sad that you try to blame the government in this case. The company is not "hacking the government laws" for profit. The company is "hacking the patient's lives" for more profit.

      So what is your solution? No patents? Back to the wild-west of medicine like 1950s? Any random chemical with positive results approved and damn any side-effects?

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

    6. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      A tire company is no different than a pharma company, are you telling me that quality of tires does not have any effect on human lives? Hmmm, have you driven a car?

      A food company, a tire company, a construction company, a transportation company, energy company, you can make your tired anti-competitive anti-freedom argument about most real businesses, it does not change the facts.

      The facts are everybody tries to protect their business model and if they are given a choice of using government rules (hacking laws) and giving themselves an advantage they WILL do so and they should do so, I have no interest a company that does not employ every tool in their disposal to rip the most benefits for themselves.

      Instead of trying to create a police state, where every fart is regulated and taxed, maybe we should actually try the real free market solution, get rid o all government supports for everything, no income taxes, no money printing and also no welfare for anybody, person or company, no business regulations, maximum greed and maximum competition, that's what builds the most sustainable and sound economy, which means the wealthiest and at the end the most moral society.

      Morality is NOT USING DEADLY FORCE to achieve your goals, but living in cooperation and there is no cooperation, there is only threat of deadly force when governments are involved.

    7. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why does the market have to "remain free"? Is a free market some moral good? Because it doesn't seem to work so well in practice. A world with no safety, efficacy or labeling regulations for medicine would hardly be a better one.

    8. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      Yes, market remaining free is the not just 'some moral good', it is THE ONLY moral good we actually have. Free market is not based on violent coercion, it is based on voluntary exchange, that's the only moral compass a society has at all if any. Starting wars for profit, printing money to write off government debts (inflating the money supply), regulating businesses, so that businesses will have a way to destroy competition while lining up pockets of politicians, creating a welfare state and thus buying votes for politicians, none of it is moral at all, all of it is completely immoral.

      The only morality we have as a society is in non-coercive voluntary exchange of ideas, labour and products.

    9. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A tire company is no different than a pharma company, are you telling me that quality of tires does not have any effect on human lives? Hmmm, have you driven a car?

      It's not about quality.
      If my car blows a tire and I can't buy another because the only producing company company stopped making them, it's a real PITA, since my car won't drive anymore.
      If my insulin prescription runs out and I can't buy more because the only producing company stopped making it, I die.
      So yes, they are different, and no, a pharma company cannot be allowed to optimize its business this way.

    10. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      Not so, the exact opposite is the case, government shouldn't be allowed to hand out monopoly power and curb competition with business regulations. A blown tire can cause you to die, by the way. It's the FDA that should be illegal, so that people would have many more options in the market than they do now.

    11. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A tire company is no different than a pharma company, are you telling me that quality of tires does not have any effect on human lives? Hmmm, have you driven a car?

      It's not about quality.

      The hell it isn't. I will never ever allow a Michelin tyre to be fitted to any car in my fleet.

    12. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free market is not based on violent coercion, it is based on lies and fraud

      For the vast majority of companies, FTFY. We'd be less likely to rag on you if you could identify a rational way to eliminate fraud without the government, but the fact is, companies will cut as many corners as they can get away with, and without the implicit threat of a government that can infringe on their property rights to examine their production process etc, there's no reason to even have one.

      The world is bad enough with government interference. Show that it cannot be made worse.

    13. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and how would your lord and savior respond to your belittling the fda like this? he wrote plenty of prescriptions over the years for fda-regulated medications for fda-approved uses. i've never once heard of him prescribing mercury or any other non-fda pharmacological treatment to any of his patients.

    14. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how does your voluntary participation in your current government differ from that?
      The voluntary agreement you have with your fellow citizens allows you to exit it any time.
      Where is the coercion? I don't understand why you don't want to maintain your end of your agreements?

      Note: If you did not sign up for citizenship on your own, your parents signed you up. If you did not drop it at your coming of age it was your voluntary free choice to continue it. Stop claiming to be a victim for your own decisions all the time.

    15. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You, sir, are a pathetic delusional moron.

    16. Re:Confusing summary - there are no generics by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      No thanks, I'll take the EU model where people are in charge of society and companies must play by their rules if they want access to their highly profitable market. Otherwise the companies can fuck off, because there are plenty of others who will provide us with the things we need and want and do it within the rules we decided on.

      What you are talking about is the opposite of freedom, it's the tyranny of powerful corporations and the rich to dominate the rest of us. These guys knew the deal when they developed this drug, we gave them special protection in return for their investment and it made them vast sums of money. Now the rules say that the patent expires and we get generics, and if they try to circumvent the spirit of the law they will rightly be slapped down.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  18. So switch them back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So people will switch to the new drug, which will cost a lot, just like Actavis does now. Then in July they switch to the generic, which will cost a lot less. What is the big deal?

    1. Re:So switch them back by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because they'll have a prescription for the new drug, and the next time they come in, possibly a year later, they'll just ask for their prescription to be renewed, and for a large percentage, the doc will sign off on it without a second thought - why change someone prescription if it's working and they haven't mentioned anything about cost? Just think of this like a cable subscription - they give you a great deal if every few years you call in and ask for the xyz lower price bundle, but it only lasts a few years until you have to do it again. The cable company makes their money off people who don't realize what's going on.

  19. This really should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    either lead to legal proceedings against the executives responsible for these choices, or a Congressional Inquiry.

    This isn't just a matter of scraping out some profit, this is intentionally compromising the safety and security of a significant portion of society. That sure sounds like either illegal behavior or behavior that needs to be codified as illegal.

    1. Re:This really should... by nystul555 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I couldn't agree with you more. It's not illegal currently but should be. Alternatively as others have suggested, if you stop making a medication other companies should be able to make a generic version.

      Others have called this "ever-greening" but that's not completely right. The Namenda XR is evergreening but what Actavis/Forest (it was Forest when this started, now they are part of Actavis), what they have been doing is known as a "forced-switch" and has only been tried a few times. Its been extremely effective. Companies normally lose 90% market share when a generic comes out, but if they've done a forced-switch a year or more in advance it is usually only around a 25% loss.

      Forest (now Actavis) has been desperate since the patent expired on their other blockbuster drug, Lexapro, in 2012. This was an attempt to retain the marketshare of their other blockbuster, and would have worked if they hadn't screwed up the implementation so badly. Forest cut over $500 million from their RnD and manufacturing budget in the last 2 years which I'm guessing is part of why they couldn't ramp up manufacturing of the new extended release quickly enough. Drug makers have to report on shortages and potential shortages to the FDA, and Forest/Actavis was fully aware that they could not make enough of the extended release to cover all the people they were forcing off of the instant release. However they decided to stop the manufacturing lines making their instant release anyway, since they knew the longer they kept making the instant release the more market share they would lose to the generic manufacturers when the patent expired. They really are scum.

    2. Re:This really should... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...but does the drug actually work?

  20. Murder for profit by Required+Snark · · Score: 4, Insightful
    At best, this is gaming the system for guaranteed profit. At worst, it's murder for profit.

    This is not an environment were the consumer can just automatically go to another vendor. The myth of a free market does not apply because there is no parity between the user and the producer. Although generics exist, they cannot always be substituted, and sometimes they don't even exist.

    Medical companies are profit driven to the extent that they cannot be trusted. They routinely lie about both the safety and the efficacy of their products. This puts the health and even the lives of patients at risk all the time.

    For example, De Puy/Johnson and Johnson produced metal on metal hip implants, and their own internal data showed that they were failing at a high rate and requiring additional surgery. Additionally, metal fragments were released into the bodies of recipients and causing metal poisoning. They decided to phase out the product because of "declining sales" and did not do a recall or inform doctors or the FDA.

    At the beginning of 2010, DePuy Orthopaedics said they were phasing out the ASR Hip Implant because of declining sales, but never mentioned the high failure rate data from an Australian implant registry. In March 2010, the New York Times reported that DePuy issued its first warning to doctors and patients about the high early failure rate. However, at this point, they still had not issued a recall of the product. In fact, they claimed any statements referencing a recall were false.

    Regulation is a necessity because the history of drug and medical equipment is filled with business practices leading to horrible outcomes, including needless death.

    In addition, drug companies get huge direct and indirect subsidies from the government. A lot of the basic research is government funded and handed over the the drug companies at no cost. When a drug is going off patent, it is legal for the patent holder to pay other drug companies to not produce generic versions. This is the polar opposite of free enterprise. It's legalize collusion to maintain state sanctioned monopolies.

    I'm routinely baffled and angered by self-styled "defenders of capitalism" who excuse dangerous and grossly anti-competitive business behavior. If the government did things like this they would be screaming like stuck pigs, but when the same or worse is done under the flag of capitalism it somehow is transformed into a sacred act, and negative consequences are left out of the picture. It seems obvious to me that the same kind of scrutiny should be applied to any big organization. Only being critical of one side is just stupid. Stop doing it.

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  21. Why can't they use eminent domain? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    There is already a well established practice by which the Government can show public interest, take over private property (after compensating the current owners) and use it for public purpose. In fact courts have ruled govt can even turn over the properties taken under eminent domain to other private parties! Why should the eminent domain be restricted to real estate? It can easily be extended to intellectual properties.

    So instead of making general law changes asking for broad restrictions to patented drugs, the government can make the case for specific patents, show the public interest, take it over turn to the generic manufacturers.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    1. Re:Why can't they use eminent domain? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Why don't the instead deny the patent for the new drug? That way, there's no incentive fort hem to act like this.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Why can't they use eminent domain? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why should the eminent domain be restricted to real estate? It can easily be extended to intellectual properties.

      In principle, there is no reason this could not be done. It would probably be highly beneficial to society for this and other matters.

      For example, many people would like to see Microsoft's monopoly overturned, arguing that paying for operating systems every few years is like having to rent the land under the interstate highway system, the rail system, and all the ports, harbors, and waterways from a private entity and over the long term (in this analogy, Linux, Android, and Mac OS own the secondary roads, important in their own right, but still a small share of the total).

      Calling the subjects of patent and copyright "property" is as much a matter of legal propoganda as anything else (since they have significant differences from physical property such as land), but given that the legal profession wants to use that term to sell the choices they have made, there is some justice in expecting all the concepts of property law to apply.

      However, things are complicated by the fact that, if we allow property law to apply to patents, then reasonable compensation must be made for taking that property (under the 5th and 14th Amendments). In principle, this is fine, but how does one define what reasonable compensation is? How do we decide what properties the public should "take", and what rules should be followed in the deciding and the taking? How should that compensation be funded, in a nation massively in debt, and with a public enormously (and rightly) opposed to additional taxes when so much of the current budget is perceived as being misspent?

      It would be better to not equate patents or copyrights to being a form of property at all.

      To elaborate on that, in US law, the existing body of patent and copyright law (by this I mean the written law, plus a huge variety of precedants, some of them contradictory) represent a means by which the US legal profession has chosen to implement part of the Constitution ("To promote the progress of science and useful arts by securing for limited times to authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries").

      A number of the words here, such as authors, inventors, securing, exclusive right, limited times, writings, and discoveries, are not well defined. Thus, as long as the policies chosen to implement this provision can reasonably be supposed to be consistent with the text, any legal implementation is valid, and many such implementations are possible.

      The law here, as in many cases, comes down to choices, and historically the US legal profession has made those choices, as most legislators and judges are lawyers (the rest are too few to be effective, and many are bought off), and in practice the legal profession is by far the most powerful lobby in the country.

      In effect, the legal profession has taken upon itself the authority to act on behalf of the public, which they think is far too ignorant to be allowed any real say over this process (in practice, the lawyers like to pretend the 9th and 10th Amendments don't exist whenever they can get away with it, i.e. there are no or few rights "retained by the people" or "reserved to the people", certainly no important rights). The members of the public are the Sheep-le, not the People, and the legal profession does the herding.

      Things could be done differently. For example, we might make the definition of "limited time" conditional, with the goal of allowing inventors a chance to make a reasonable profit, but not a excessive one.

      Alternately, there is nothing in this text that says we have to consider a corporation or other business an inventor, giving these the same status as an actual person. If we limit inventors to real people, many of the current problems with copyright and patent could potentially go away. Instead of applying eminent domain to property transferred from a real person to an organ

  22. Do what India does by BitZtream · · Score: 1

    Fuck your patents. We're making it anyway, you just lost your privileges to do business under normal business rules. The drug and any derivatives of it become public domain, and any knowledge you have relating to that particular drug becomes public domain. ALL OF IT, regardless as to how it relates to other work you have.

    Then, as stage two, take all the execs and every employee who didn't openly, publicly, actively work against this move out back and shoot them, preferably in a way that makes their death slow and painful.

    The second time a drug company does something like this, the government takes their ENTIRE patent portfolio, makes it public domain and closes the company down, selling any physical assets they have to the highest bidder and any other intellectual property also becomes public domain. Yes this will have collateral damage for the first few that do it, and then this shit would stop. Share holders lose everything, maybe next time they'll think a little more about being greedy fucks and demand the company do the right thing rather than the profitable thing.

    --
    Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    1. Re:Do what India does by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... stage two, take all the execs and every employee who didn't openly, publicly, actively work against this move out back and shoot them, preferably in a way that makes their death slow and painful.

      You left out denying their family and involved official's family members access to medications for a year.

    2. Re:Do what India does by steak · · Score: 1

      And India has invented how many of these drugs?

  23. it's not illegal by lkcl · · Score: 1

    " Drug companies cannot illegally prioritize profits over patients"

    actually, it's not illegal, and in fact what the judge is doing is directly against the Articles of Incorporation of the Company. if this is something you're not familiar with, watch the first few minutes of the Documentary called "The Corporation" or read professor Yunus's book "Creating a World Without Poverty". basically it is a LEGAL REQUIREMENT that the Directors of Corporations enact - pathologically and absolutely - the Articles of Incorporation of a Company, otherwise they may either be faced with a vote by their shareholders to resign, or they may face jail time. ... and the Articles of Incorporation typically state that profit MUST be maximised to the absolute, total, complete, without fail absolute 100% top absolute top priority above all else WITHOUT fail.

    so under the Articles of Incorporation of this Drug Company, saving lives is not a priority: making MONEY - the absolute maximum amount possible - is the absolute top priority.

    so this judge's decision, therefore, was quite literally the only way by which those lives could be prioritised over and above the profits of the Corporation. you really should watch "The Documentary". its premise is that if a Corporation was a real person instead of a fictitous one, they give 10 reasons why that "person" would be locked up forever as pathologically and criminally insane. i no longer call Corporations "Corporations, i call them "Cancerations" because they pathologically consume all resources to further themselves with blatant disregard.

    simple, really.

    1. Re:it's not illegal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The law can and does override the articles of incorporation. If the articles of incorporation state that they will increase profits by witholding the pay of workers then the law will come down on them anyway.

      In more civilised parts of the world the law prescribes various rights of employees and responsibilities to society and they override whatever the articles of incorporation say.

  24. And now for the real story by kungfool · · Score: 0

    Having worked in pharmaceutical development for over 20 years, I can tell you this is VERY scary for your healthcare. The reason these "minor tweak" drugs are developed, is because they are, in some way, better than the original. In this case, the new formulation is a longer acting pill. This is a big deal for Alzheimer patients. One of the major hurdles for neurodegenerative diseases is dosing compliance. If you forget to take the pill, it doesn't work. If there are fewer pills to take, the chances of forgetting diminish, or a once-a-day aide can assist in medication. This ruling tells drug companies that investing in innovation to improve a drug is not worth the money. As to the continued production of the old drug, you can be assured that the originating company would not pass up the money from licensing the production and sale to another company. The plan probably involved dropping the older version of the drug for a time to build a market for the new drug, then introduce the old drug under a new manufacturer.

    1. Re:And now for the real story by fnj · · Score: 1

      Really, you don't think that is reaching pretty far? I hardly think an Alzheimer patient can be trusted to properly medicate himself, whether it is once a day or 2-3 times a day. Big deal. Either way, he needs a care giver, the absence of which is simple neglect. The difference in resources between taking 10 seconds once a day, or 2-3 times a day to medicate the patient is very slight.

    2. Re:And now for the real story by kungfool · · Score: 1

      The point is that a care giver certified to give meds need only come in once a day rather than three or more with the old formulation. In a memory care unit, that means less cost to the family.

  25. It's about who's doing the coercion by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you left it to the courts (which is what all Libertarian types like to do), you'd be decrying judges finding against doctors who prescribed under-tested products because that's not "free market" either.

    Libertarian philosophy as I understand it is about coercion. A doctor knowingly or recklessly prescribing a health product that isn't right for a patient is coercing the patient. But if a doctor prescribes a product after weighing the risks and benefits, and a judge punishes the doctor for doing that because the FDA pulled the product from the market, the judge is doing the coercing, as was the product's maker who defrauded the FDA into pulling it in favor of the maker's new product.

    They don't they just set the standards. Or should theree be no standards?

    Let's just say that there are some standards willful violation of which shouldn't be a felony.

    1. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Libertarian philosophy as I understand it is about coercion.

      No, libertarian philosophy talks a lot about coercion. The problem is that the word requires so much interpertation that it is meaningless..

      Heck, let's use your example. First, your example presupposed that there is an objective, knowable standard for what a doctor should proscribe. And that somehow we can determine if something is "recklessly prescribing" or "prescribing ... after weighing the risks and benefits."

      But secondly, a doctor prescribing something is seen as coercion, if and only if it was the wrong choice. If it was the right choice, no coercion. And it's only coercion if a judge tries to stop him from making a bad choice, not a good choice.

      While I think "the decision most likely to be correct should be applied, regardless of source" is reasonable, I don't think it's what you intended.

      I do agree with GP. These points are tired, and dragged out constantly. So I worry I'm wasting time shouting into the wind. But, I'll take that chance.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by Sique · · Score: 1

      Libertarians believe everyone has all the time of the world to do all the work of thousands of people all on his own everytime something is to decide. Somehow doing research and finding out things costs nothing in a libertarian world. No wonder they come up with such a fantastic economic value of a fully free, non regulated market.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    3. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by Carewolf · · Score: 0

      Libertarian philosophy as I understand it is about coercion.

      No, it is about mental illness. A "libertarian" is an American, who doesn't know what liberal means, and thinks he is not one because he is right leaning. Also he is mentally insane and thinks gold has a more fixed price than dollars.

    4. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Libertarians also believe that no one would willingly ever sell an unsafe untested product, because that would harm their business.

      that fact that actual history disproves that notion on an almost daily basis never enters into the picture.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    5. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Libertarians also believe that no one would willingly ever sell an unsafe untested product, because that would harm their business.

      Bullshit. I'm a Libertarian and I believe no such thing. Corporations are evil because people are evil and corporations are just a bunch of irresponsible, short sighted people who will choose profit over pretty much any other value. Profit at any price. Corporations are indistinguishable from what we would call a 'sociopath' if it were an individual. Although, unlike governments, they at least usually stop short of actual acts of violence.

      As a libertarian I believe in the free market not because it is perfect in every way. There is no perfect system. But because I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I think genuine freedom is worth the price of not being able to reign in bad/evil corporations as quickly as in this case.

      That is of course when the system actually works and it doesn't always.Things don't usually turn out like this. This is not a typical outcome of the system. Generally the government has a cozy relationship with large corporations like this and lets them get a away with all kinds of evil and greedy shit.

      So the system worked this time. Yay. Before we all start celebrating consider the bullshit extension they are getting on nothing more than a coated pill. Until fucking 2025. That makes *no* sense and is obviously an abuse of the system. Extended release pills should not be grounds for a patent extension unless maybe the process used is more effective than any done currently, but then the novel process itself would qualify for the patent. Not the actual drug which is no longer 'novel'. It's a perfect example of how governments and corporations are often partners.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    6. Re:It's about who's doing the coercion by athenaprime · · Score: 1

      Libertarians also believe that no one would willingly ever sell an unsafe untested product, because that would harm their business.

      Bullshit. I'm a Libertarian and I believe no such thing. Corporations are evil because people are evil and corporations are just a bunch of irresponsible, short sighted people who will choose profit over pretty much any other value. Profit at any price. Corporations are indistinguishable from what we would call a 'sociopath' if it were an individual. Although, unlike governments, they at least usually stop short of actual acts of violence.

      You mean like intentionally taking away people's maintenance medication? You are still engaged in thinking that corporations would sell an actual product on the way to making a profit. A corporation's "moral duty" according to shareholder devotion, would be to sell absolutely nothing, while collecting as much money for it as possible. The most moral, free-market business in the world, then, is picking pockets.

      As a libertarian I believe in the free market not because it is perfect in every way. There is no perfect system. But because I think the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. I think genuine freedom is worth the price of not being able to reign in bad/evil corporations as quickly as in this case.

      That is of course when the system actually works and it doesn't always.Things don't usually turn out like this. This is not a typical outcome of the system. Generally the government has a cozy relationship with large corporations like this and lets them get a away with all kinds of evil and greedy shit.

      And in your total free-market system, there would be no government to even put up a token protest or "let" them get away with their evil and greedy shit. If you really, honestly believe that the absence of governMENT would equal the absence of governANCE, then I don't know what to tell you, but your paragraph above pretty much sums it up. The system doesn't work. Genuine freedom is meaningless if you can't trust that at least there's *some* regulation on the pills you take. Or the food you eat, or the air you breathe, or the water you drink. The "market" will always put profits before people. If you really believe you can live in a world like that, I hope you have a strong constitution.

      So the system worked this time. Yay. Before we all start celebrating consider the bullshit extension they are getting on nothing more than a coated pill. Until fucking 2025. That makes *no* sense and is obviously an abuse of the system. Extended release pills should not be grounds for a patent extension unless maybe the process used is more effective than any done currently, but then the novel process itself would qualify for the patent. Not the actual drug which is no longer 'novel'. It's a perfect example of how governments and corporations are often partners.

      Here, we agree. This instance is bullshit and shows why the law needs to be changed. Fun thing is, with a civic entity of government, citizens, not boards of directors, can effect changes in the laws. The "market" does not give a shit if people don't get their meds. The "market" will let them die because it's cheaper and more profitable to hold out for more money. I can't abide that, because people and reality matter more than free-market theoretical philosophy that fails anywhere it's used outside of a laboratory exercise.

  26. Cold War-era stigma against socialism by tepples · · Score: 2

    Why the fuck are profits the motivating factor!?

    Because there are powerful people still alive who see socialism as the enemy because they remember World War III (also called the Cold War) against the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

  27. Patent system needs non-use-clause by YoungManKlaus · · Score: 1

    i.e. if a patent is not used in an actual product it will go invalid after a short amount of time. I think a year or two at most should be sufficient. Same should go for copyright obviously. If the owner is not interested in doing reprints then it should be allowed for others to do so.

  28. Ripe for contraction by tepples · · Score: 1

    We've decided to exit the health care business because the requirements to manufacture drugs that are no longer profitable has left us an unprofitable company.

    Then the market might be ripe for contraction. Sell your assets to another drug company that will benefit from economies of scale or synergy or whatever the marketroids are calling it today. Then start a video game company or something.

  29. For some perspective... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    ....I invite you to compare the cost of health care in the US with that in just about any other developed country in the world.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  30. The saddest part by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    The saddest part is that the system is designed to permit this. It takes less effort to bring a variant of an old drug to market than it does a new one. You don't have to prove that it's as efficacious as the old one, let alone moreso; you only need to prove that it doesn't kill statistically significantly more people than the old one.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  31. Absolutely mystified by fnj · · Score: 2

    I freely admit to being absolutely mystified how the social compact of a supposedly enlightened civilization does not include basic nutrition, shelter, schooling and health care for all without direct charge. I am serious. I don't get it. With regard to the topic, this should include medical research including development of drugs, absent repulsive features such as some getting rich off the misfortunes of others.

    If you don't think society, with today's robotics, can afford to provide basic nutrition, shelter, schooling and health care for all without crass commercialism and people falling through the cracks, IMO you are an idiot; an ass. I say this as a believer in TRUE free enterprise (not necessarily corporatism with all the sickening corruption that goes with it). I just think these three necessities trump everything else, and a society is not worth having if it spurns providing them.

    Please note, when I say basic, I mean basic. The nutrition would be in the form of cost free provision of healthy but plain foods PICKED FOR the user and SERVED TO him. Shelter would be in the form of shared communal or semi-communal barracks. The health care would be limited to necessities for health. There would be no limit for what is truly needed, including dental and vision, but no pampering. If you want contact lenses instead of glasses, cosmetic surgery, sex change BULLSHIT, go ahead and pay for that shit yourself, but fuck you if you expect the pampering. If you want TV, cell phone, car and other pure luxuries, you pay. For free you would get lending libraries and communal computers.

    If you raise specific objections, for example the living spaces would not be respected because they are free, and people would let them become decrepit, there are ways to deal with this. I won't belabor the details here; I think it is fairly obvious given any serious thought given to the matter.

    You can be goddam sure there would still be a sizable worth ethic for those who desire more than the basics. Probably as much as, or more than, there is in the USA today. As it is, with provision of raw money to the "needy", some get to enjoy luxuries without working for them, while others fall through the cracks completely.

    I don't really think this makes me a "communist". "From each according to his ability" is pretty obsolete given the state of robotics today. And if you want o cede "to each according to his needs" to the communists, tell me why. I certainly don't see why the rest of us should cede the high moral ground.

  32. PRELIMINARY injunction by l2718 · · Score: 2

    The summary above is highly misleading, possibly because of the bad headline the NYT editor put on the story. The judge didn't rule on the merits at all. All he did is issue a preliminary injunctiion, which forces the drug company to maintain the status quo for the duration of the trial. The judge didn't "block an attempt by the drug company" he just deferred the attempt until the case is over. If New York wins its case, the judge will actually block the attempt by entering a permanent injunction.

    In other words: this ruling only reflects a judgement that, until we know who wins, it's better to force the company to keep the drug on the market, which is obvious to everyone. It doesn't reflect a judgement on whether the drug company may legally withdraw the drug.

  33. A set of bandaids to fix this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The original drug company has one point that seem reasonable
        It's not fair for the generic company to get a free ride for advertizing.
        Aside from that, not so much.

    The patent office could be a bit more skeptical as to the patent for the slight modification to a near generic drug.
    It's hard to see how these patents are useful or novel.
    (Except for the novel business strategy they propose.)

    The key thing supporting the generic is the NDDF code.
    The FDA should not let the original manufacturer kill the code if a generic manufacturer needs it.
    The trademark office should take the view that the brandname goes with the NDDF code after the patent expires.
    The generic manufacturer with the same formula should be able to use the brand name.
    (Perhaps with their company name as well.)
    If the formulas are actually the same, this would not cause market confusion, but rather clarity.
    All companies selling a particular generic would have the option to advertise for that generic brand.
    They would all have the same risk that the prescription could be filled with a different manufacturer's pill.
    This fixes the fairness of advertising question.

    A pharmacist should be give a bit more leeway to use a generic with a different NDDF code for these few, specific cases.
    Perhaps after a phone call to the doc, or a talk with the patient.
    The FDA would have to setup a process for the generic company for ask for the specific NDDF pair and conditions to allow swapping between.

    The problem is fixable in a reasonable manner in line with the intent of generics.
    Which is why it probably won't happen.

  34. They should have said it causes Global Warming by Terry95 · · Score: 1

    That's the lie that Dow Chemical used to shut down competition when their Freon patents were expiring. Don't battle the government. Just tell them an implausible but unverifiable story, that conveniently vastly increases their regulatory power. Then sit back and let International Treaties to save the environment fill your bank account.

    Crony Capitalism FTW!!

  35. Fascism at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When judges and governments can dictate what a company can and cant produce, we have lost control.

  36. Parent is Backasswords by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Fascism is corporatism! Learn some history.
    Governments bossing around corporations is at the opposite side.

    Furthermore, if you believe it is a democratic government then the government is "we" and therefore "we" collectively are exercising our control not losing it.

    1. Re:Parent is Backasswords by will_die · · Score: 1

      Actually you are wrong.
      Fascism has some components of corporatism but is not corporatism.
      Under corporatism the organization of the work is done by groups or organizations that work together,usually, for the bettering of all.
      Fascism, not the modern definition that liberals currently user where if you are opposed to communism and love your country you are a fascist, would do the same thing but this would be directed by the government for the bettering of all. In very simplistic term.

    2. Re:Parent is Backasswords by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      The Mussolini's political party where Fascism comes from and while that famous quote of his "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism" can not have it's attribution proven; it is not far from the manifesto of HIS party that the man promoted. When I asked a poly sci professor whom was familiar with the Fascist party and it's book, he didn't think the quote was much of a stretch and it was not impossible for him to have said it. Fascism isn't "free market" corporatism it is a merging of the state and the corporations; it seems to be like communism from the outside especially since both inherently require lots of authoritarianism and on that spectrum they very similar to each other... It's a matter of perspective and priority/philosophy that differentiates it from it's perceived opposite.

      I'm frequently pointing people to PoliticalCompass.org because there is no binary or even linear political scale. Simply because you are against communism it doesn't make you the opposite... besides, the opposite of communism is not fascism, but economic anarchy (the most free market possible...which never lasts just like communism because it's so unstable it falls apart... imbalance happens caused by the system which break the system from the start; either system. Even the most free market, the black market is never really free within it's own domain. )

      Every system sold to the masses is based around basic socialism which is the argument that the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few. Even free market Randians use the same argument, that more people are better off with their system so you should choose it over those "unrealistic" others and naturally they add additional appeals, premises and argument to that.

      All systems are headed for shake up so inventing a lot in them is a waste of time; once robotics and AI surpass nearly every human job the economics and political schemes fail because they were built around assumptions that will be altered. I think the transition is going to resemble holy wars because a lot of these systems are at religious levels. (Just look at the Christians freaking out at this new pope preaching actual Christian values because it contradicts their other stronger political beliefs.)

  37. Simple Solution by pubwvj · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Use it or lose it.
    As soon as they stop making it they should lose the patent.
    It's a simple solution.
    Even limiting supply should trigger this clause.
    This also works against the patent trolls who never did use it.

    1. Re:Simple Solution by RyoShin · · Score: 1

      It also works against small inventors; the minute they stop making something a large company will ramp up production and claim the smaller company/person forfeited patent protection. If they were forced to stop making it due to supply issues, which could be controlled by the larger company, they become easy picking.

      If you say "completely stop" then the company will maintain an extremely small line that makes one pill/day and sells it to an employee or just throws it away. If you say a minimum number then it could push out small players. Giving a delay of X days has the same problem. I don't know how you'd make a rule that wouldn't have loopholes so large that the big companies just walk right through them.

      I support the idea, but a basic rule/law won't work. Rather, a party that can show a vested interest--such as a patent troll target or a competing manufacturer--should be able to apply to a patent judge for invalidation of a patent due to lack of use after a minimum time since the patent was granted has passed. Require a wait of, say, a year so someone can't be awarded a patent and then the next day have to defend their low manufacturing in court.

      The judge could then look at multiple factors in deciding whether or not to invalidate, including:
      - size of company vs size of output
      - size of demand
      - importance of patent
      - reliance of company on producing patented item
      The judge could also rule that manufacturing has to increase a certain amount by a certain date, or the patent is invalid. The company whose patent is being reviewed could present evidence of supply tampering, extraordinary events (warehouse caught on fire, sudden regional instability where the product is manufactured, etc.), or other things that would affect production that would allow them to keep the patent.

      Not that this lacks its own pratfalls, but looking at "abandoned" patents on a case-by-case basis is better than trying to write some generic law. Plus, most companies that would have their patent invalidated by a law would fight it in court anyway, so this just fast-tracks the process.

    2. Re:Simple Solution by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      A lot, most perhaps, of the patents simply need to be invalidated.

      Patents in fast changing industries need to expire faster.

      I speak as an inventor, manufacture, seller and consumer. I've seen all sides of this. The current system is broken. Let's disassemble it.

  38. Early warning before canceling a drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before a patent holder chooses to stop selling a drug in quantity,
        they should need FDA approval.
    The FDA should be able to require sufficient lead time to bring a generic vendor on line
        with the assurance of no patent problems for the generic vendor.
    Perhaps with a minor royalty payment until the patent runs out.

    The monopoly that comes from the patent is a bargain with the public.
    For something lifesaving like a drug, the bargain should not include gaming the system.
    It's hard to see how this rule should apply to something like Viagra.

  39. Shall issue by tepples · · Score: 1

    A patent examiner shall issue a patent to an inventor so long as the inventor can prove that an invention is novel, useful, and non-obvious. On which of these three grounds shall the examiner deny the patent?

  40. double length patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not novel or non-obvious because it is nearly identical to the previous drug formula. And does not seem to confer any significant useful benefit, but it does juggle some of the side-effects around.

    We should deny double patents, that is the patenting of something that is already patented for the purposes of extending the patent by another 20 years.

  41. Efficiency by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    The most disturbing point is that there is not yet any efficient drug against Alzheimer's disease. This company just want to sell snake oil for a higher fee for a longer time..

  42. Won't last by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    This is a federal judge, not a federal appellate panel. The company will pay to have amazing representation on appeal and is much more likely to win.

  43. Should have gotten the other one banned by myth24601 · · Score: 1

    A better strategy would have been to get the old med banned for some reason which would force people on the new med and keep generics from cropping up at some point.

    Seriously, if a drug company decides to stop making a drug, the patent should automatically expire.

    --
    No matter where you go, there you are.
  44. Smart judge by nbritton · · Score: 1

    This judge was smart, he probably knew his judgement will be reversed on appeal but he knew it would take at least a year to make it through the appeals process. Since the patents expire next year the company's plan is screwed. The judge's message to the company was a big fuck you.

  45. Simple To Fix by CauseBy · · Score: 1

    This problem is simple to fix, no lawsuit needed.

    If you refuse to manufacture a thing that you control with patents (or copyright or any intellectual property), then your IP claims become invalid. No exceptions.

    Oh, what? You want to keep manufacturing that drug after all? Okay, great.

  46. How many have the USA done? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like yours, a rhetorical question since you don't give a shit what the answer ACTUALLY is, you merely wish to infer that "None, ergo the idea is why India has no patents!".

    WRONG.

  47. Or equally likely . . . by mmell · · Score: 1

    Continue with manufacture of quantity x or license the patented drugs for manufacture by others. Court oversight, years of legal maneuvering, etc. Fear of civil litigation ought to keep the manufacturer in line.