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Want To Influence the World? Map Reveals the Best Languages To Speak

sciencehabit writes: Speak or write in English, and the world will hear you. Speak or write in Tamil or Portuguese, and you may have a harder time getting your message out. Now, a new method for mapping how information flows around the globe (abstract) identifies the best languages to spread your ideas far and wide. One hint: If you're considering a second language, try Spanish instead of Chinese.

27 of 150 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Hi-Res Image? by shadowknot · · Score: 3, Informative
  2. Interesting, but ... by Kittenman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's good that it's mapping translations rather than language speakers - but it's not mapping content. Say 50% of the tweets in English are concerning Kim Kardashian's latest outfit, or Lady Gaga's pop video. An article in Finnish (why not?) is telling everyone how to talk to dogs. Which is more important to humankind?

    Of course, how you automatically judge merit is another matter....

    --
    "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    1. Re:Interesting, but ... by BenJeremy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If the article about communicating with animals at a conversational level is published, the information will be translated into English.

      Seriously, though, why do we still speak hundreds of languages? - I know... because culture! Culture is a lousy, empty, truly vapid reason. A large percentage of the human race's information is in English, a flawed, but serviceable (and malleable) trade language that served the British well for several centuries. As the study pointed out, English is, far and above all others, a global language.

      It's a shame that it will likely be centuries before mankind figures out how to be more informationally efficient and come up with some sort of "basic" language. I'd even go along with Esperanto if the powers that be would just pick something and move the human race to it.

    2. Re:Interesting, but ... by Optic7 · · Score: 2

      If only it were possible for humans to speak more than one language, then they could keep their original language and also communicate in one or more global languages! Alas, it is, sadly, impossible. /sarcasm

      Like it or not, language helps maintain a lot more than just "lousy, empty, vapid" culture. It also helps maintain useful culture, history, unique philosophical concepts, unique observations about the world around us, and I am sure countless other important characteristics, discoveries, and contributions of a particular set of people. With something as complex and impactful as language, having only one choice is never good, just like it's not good in software, programming languages, food, or anything for that matter.

      Reading your follow-up reply, I would also add that having a variety of languages is infinitely more important than resolving something that could much more easily be resolved with better engineering solutions, like the localization examples you mention.

    3. Re:Interesting, but ... by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Informative

      You can talk to dogs in any language. They cannot understand complex sentences

      That depends on what breed of dog and how you define 'complex'. Border Collies are well known for their grasp of vocabulary; we could give our BC commands along the lines of "Go into Steve's room and get the red toy." and she'd do it. That sentence is complicated enough to place it out of reach for many humans who have only limited English abilities.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    4. Re:Interesting, but ... by captainpanic · · Score: 2

      But humor is language dependent. And so is in fact every communication. And therefore so is culture. So, language partially defines a culture. And therefore is we were to drop all other languages and adopt English as a language, cultures (or at least parts of them) would soon diminish and disappear. And the world would become that much more boring.
      Cultural differences are not impossible without language, but different languages make it easier to diversify.

      It's a good idea to have one or two main languages in the world that everyone speaks (English, Spanish and Chinese are all good choices)... but let people speak whatever they want.

    5. Re:Interesting, but ... by Sique · · Score: 4, Insightful
      "Culture" is just a big cover we put over very different things. A physician and a physicist will have a big problem to read each other's scientific papers -- mostly they won't even know what the paper is about. And imagine someone from Switzerland and from Brasil try to talk to each other about their favorite outdoor activity during January, even if they find a language they both are fluent in!

      Language is much more than just a communications protocol. Language has connotations, language is malleable by its speakers, language contains concepts of the world, language is even a tool to make a difference between insiders and outsiders. We will never be able to speak one common language. No physicist will ever be able to learn about all the terms a physician needs in his daily work, and most Brazilians will never learn anything about skiing in a certain valley of the Alps. Every generation comes up with new words for old facts just because the parents should not understand everything their children are talking about.

      Each language has a big body of texts encoded in this language, which are unique to this language, and most of it was never translated into any other language (you don't believe it? How much of french TV programming was ever translated into English for instance?). The idea that most of the world's knowledge is available in English is completely misguided. It's just most of the knowledge you have that is available in English. But you are no benchmark of what knowledge is. If we switch to only one single language for everyone, all the text in all the other languages will be lost forever. How minuscule the english knowledge about non-english events is, can be easily demonstrated by asking you, how much you know about the events of the Summer of 1989 in Hungary. Nevertheless this is very important for the understanding of today's world, because the talks between Hungary's minister of Foreign Affairs Gyula Horn and his Austrian counterpart Alois Mock during the Pan-European Picnic lead to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the Iron Curtain. There are hundreds of news paper articles and reports available in Hungarian and German, in Czech and in Romanian, there are scientific papers about the events in those languages, but how much are available in English? In the U.S. there is still the opinion prevalent that Ronald Reagan's speech at the Berlin Wall in 1988 had something to do with it. (Fun fact: It hasn't.)

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    6. Re:Interesting, but ... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Japanese speaker here. English is not an adequate replacement for Japanese I'm afraid, and I'm not sure it can be modified enough to perform that function without becoming unintelligible to other English speakers.

      The way the Japanese look at the world and think about things is fundamentally different to how native English speakers to, and the language is a big part of that. It's hard to explain without teaching you Japanese, but for example they distinguish between animate and inanimate things with many subtle ramifications. If they were to abandon those concepts it would be very difficult for many Japanese speakers to express complex ideas clearly and precisely because as well as using different words they would need to translate the entire concept itself into "western" terms.

      Even if people could be convinced to change, what would happen to Japanese society and culture? So much of it is based on how the languages makes you think about things or relate to other people. For example, Japanese has four levels of politeness and you can say the same thing in four different ways depending on your relationship with the other person. Customers expect to be spoken to very politely, and using very informal and familiar terms is a form of social grooming between friends and lovers.

      I'm not an expert on Chinese but I believe there are similar problems. Chinese doesn't even have a word for "no", to give you an idea of how fundamentally different it is. If there was to be a world language it would have to be something better than English, and I'm not sure any one language could cover every requirement and still be reasonably universal.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Interesting, but ... by Smauler · · Score: 2

      Chinese doesn't even have a word for "no", to give you an idea of how fundamentally different it is.

      The "Do not want" meme was caused by the Chinese lack of the word "no" - See here or here for one of my all time favourite things. It makes the new Star Wars films watchable.

  3. Re:Let me be the first to say... by oodaloop · · Score: 2

    Hold down your ctrl key and scroll in. It's not rocket surgery.

    --
    Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
  4. Re:Let me be the first to say... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Funny

    Hold down your ctrl key and scroll in. It's not rocket surgery.

    Umm ... no. It is a jpeg image, not HTML. So scrolling in just makes it big and blurry instead of small and blurry. I even trying shouting "enhance! enhance!"

  5. Re:Hay! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Wrong "Ay"...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  6. Want to influence the world? by Kohath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You probably shouldn't want to influence the world. People who would say they "want to influence the world" generally lack the humility needed to avoid accidentally or recklessly making things worse for the world as a result of their influence.

    1. Re:Want to influence the world? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You probably shouldn't want to influence the world. People who would say they "want to influence the world" generally lack the humility needed to avoid accidentally or recklessly making things worse for the world as a result of their influence.

      Quite so.

      Every children's TV show or media outlet prattles on endlessly about "changing the world", but they are remarkably non-specific about "change it into what"?

  7. Re:Let me be the first to say... by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Funny

    Sorry, it's "mejorar! mejorar!" and don't forget "Por favor" and maybe a small 'propina'.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  8. Website of the study by Optic7 · · Score: 2

    With interactive graphs, rankings, etc.

    http://language.media.mit.edu/

  9. Re:Let me be the first to say... by godrik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    except the nearest bus station is not the world.

    I am actually not sure how TFA comes to the conclusion that spanish would be a good second language. The question should be "assuming I already speak English, which second language should I speak." If 95% (pulled out of a hat) of spanish speakers also speak english, then learning spanish might not actually allow you to reach much more people.

  10. Mandarin vs. Spanish by fyngyrz · · Score: 2, Informative

    I speak (and read and write) both Mandarin and Spanish.

    Spanish is a lot easier for an English-speaker to learn.

    But Mandarin is, at least IMHO, much more interesting. I enjoy the characters, preferring the traditional ones, coping with the simplified ones.

    The most difficult problem I had learning Chinese is that the dominant system of romanization, pinyin, is wholly non-intuitive and conflicting to me as a reader of English. It's frustrating because there are *very* few sounds in Chinese that really couldn't be well-approximated with normal English character order and usage. The exceptions, like the pinyin 'r' sound, could be marked another way (for instance, as the Spanish Ñ.) So learning how to say a word without a native speaker turned out to be a real problem. I got a heck of a boost when a real Chinese restaurant opened in our little town. :)

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Mandarin vs. Spanish by diakka · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you're having trouble with pinyin, and since you already seem to prefer traditional characters, then just use bopomofo/zhuyin fuhao. Once you learn one pronunciation system well, it's trivial to learn the other because the sounds they represent are the same, all you have to do is link them up in your mind. I personally used pinyin for many years, but using an Anki deck, I learned zhuyin fuhao in a matter of days after I moved to Taipei.

      Learning Chinese is a loooooooooong road. For the casual language learner, I'd say your best ROI on your time is going to be with Spanish. But then again, it all depends on what you're motivated to learn, because motivation is the worst thing to waste. I will say however, that if your motivation is even remotely to raise your value in the eyes of Chinese girls, don't bother, because of the girls that date westerners, given the choice between fluent Chinese and six pack abs, they'll choose the abs about 90% of the time.

      --
      -- Knowledge shared is power lost. -- Aleister Crowley
  11. Here's the actual paper, in PDF by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Informative

    Links that speak: The global language network and its association with global fame. And it's not even paywalled, you can download it from anywhere. You're welcome.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  12. Re:80 years it was German by swilly · · Score: 4, Informative

    80 years ago the Lingua Franca for diplomacy was French. In fact, French dominated diplomacy from the 17th century until WW2. English didn't start getting used in non-English diplomatic circles until after WW1 (it was quite significant when the Treaty of Versailles was written in both English and French). French has been eclipsed by English, but it is still popular (it is the second most used language in the UN and the EU).

    For science and technology, Latin used to dominate. Once people stopped publishing in Latin, three dominant languages appeared: English, French, and German. Which was dominant depended on the field being discussed. Before WW1, German may have been the largest of the three, but after WW1, English was noticeably more dominant (and has only continued to grow).

    For business, the general rule is that whenever possible the seller speaks the buyers language. 80 years ago, there were several useful intermediate languages that could be used to facilitate business. The most common would be English, French, and Arabic. I don't know that German was used much outside of Europe and the few German colonies. French was probably the smallest here, since outside of Europe it was most spoken in Africa, where it had to compete with Arabic as a language of trade. There are plenty of other languages which are influential at a regional level, such as Chinese, Russian, Spanish, and Swahili, but these haven't had much of an impact globally. Due to its size and economic might, I expect that Chinese will become more influential in the future, and it will slowly become more significant outside of Asia. I don't see Spanish moving outside of Europe and the Americas, at least not in the short term.

  13. Re:I'm just happy to get anyone to read what I wri by umdesch4 · · Score: 2

    I know, right? I got a pretty good crash course in Spanish after moving to Mexico for a year in 2000, to a city where almost no-one spoke English. So now I'm fairly fluent in English, French and Spanish. Since leaving Quebec almost 30 years ago, I only speak French with anyone once every few years as a bit of a novelty. Spanish? Absolutely never in the main cities in Canada. I work in IT, and I've only ever met one guy who spoke Spanish. The order is, and has been English, Chinese, Russian, and German, with Hindi floating around on either side of Russian, and Japanese down near the bottom (but still way above Spanish) more or less exactly as you stated, in every corporate environment I've working in for the last 20 years. That includes the teams several other countries. Conclusion: The secondary languages I've learned have absolutely no use in any business I've conducted throughout my entire career in IT.

  14. Language depends on your target audience... by Sivaraj · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ...and on the content your are writing, and the sort of influence you want to have. I know of several Tamil writers online who have dedicated following. If you want to influence online Tamil community, then I don't see the point of writing in English or Spanish.

    There is probably some purpose for this study, but it is definitely lost in the blurb written above. While it is obvious that most of the internet talks in English, the ability to weild influence online is not just dependent on the language you are writing in. With instant page translations, good amount of the written content is accessible to larger section of audience, regardless of the language it is written in.

  15. Re:I'm just happy to get anyone to read what I wri by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    I can tell you that in my field, Chinese is used at least 4x more often than Spanish.

    Massage parlor?

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  16. Re:"Chinese"?! by afgam28 · · Score: 2

    Mandarin and Cantonese differ a lot when spoken, but have similar written forms (especially for more formal writing). Since the study looks at written languages (books and websites) it makes sense to lump the many written forms of Chinese together.

  17. Re: I'm just happy to get anyone to read what I wr by LDAPMAN · · Score: 2

    Your experience is very IT specific. If you were in construction or food service you would be using Spanish daily.

  18. Re:80 years it was German by Smauler · · Score: 2

    Technically, a "Lingua Franca" is a language used by two people whose first language is something else entirely. I, for example, can't use English as a Lingua Franca, since it's my first language. I have, however, spoken to a Spanish person (who could not speak English) in French, therefore was using French as a kind of Lingua Franca.

    The original Lingua Franca was a trading language used around the Mediterranean from about 1000 years ago, and was originally based predominantly on northern Italian dialects. The term has been applied to other languages like Latin retroactively.