Microsoft Gets Industry Support Against US Search Of Data In Ireland

An anonymous reader writes Tech giants such as Apple and eBay have given their support in Microsoft's legal battle against the U.S. government regarding the handing over of data stored in an Irish datacenter. In connection with a 2014 drugs investigation, U.S. prosecutors issued a warrant for emails stored by Microsoft in Ireland. The firm refused to hand over the information, but in July was ordered by a judge to comply with the investigation. Microsoft has today filed a collection of letters from industry supporters, such as Apple, eBay, Cisco, Amazon, HP, and Verizon. Trade associations including the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and Digital Rights Ireland have also expressed their support.

Comments

A matter of procedure...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

Surely there is some analog to 'extradition' for search warrants, isn't there?

The idea that any nation you happen to have a presence in can demand something you have in any other nation seems like an obviously dangerous shortcut to most-abusive-common-denominator law; but being able to black-hole anything just by shifting the VM across the border presents its own problems.

Is there actually no such instrument, and this sort of thing somehow hasn't come up enough to be settled, or did the Fed prosecutors just demand first and try tact later because they aren't exactly lacking for arrogance(or, in fairness, lacking for reasons to be arrogant, given how often they get away with it)?

Re:A matter of procedure...

[silas_moeckel]

There is they could have sought a warrant in Ireland, since they have stronger privacy protections the fishing expeditions would not be allowed. That is why they are trying to make an end run to avoid that having to show cause etc etc etc.

Re:A matter of procedure...

[nabsltd]

There is they could have sought a warrant in Ireland, since they have stronger privacy protections the fishing expeditions would not be allowed.

The US government did, and it wasn't.

That's what started this whole train rolling.

Probably cruel but...

[jbmartin6]

Part of me hopes Microsoft loses and this costs the huge US tech conglomerates oodles of overseas business.

Re:Probably cruel but...

[gstoddart]

If the US get their way, no company on this planet would touch a data center that is remotely in league with a US based company with a 10 foot pole.

Which is precisely what companies should have been doing as soon as America passed the PATRIOT Act, which pretty much spelled out their claim to be able to do this.

US based cloud services have been tainted for years now, only now people are starting to realize the truth of it.

Some of us have been saying this exact scenario would happen for years.

When the US government decided American companies were an extended part of the surveillance apparatus, American companies became so embroiled in this as to be laughable. There is no way you ca trust an American company if you're outside of America.

How do you think those stocks are going to fare when everyone cancels contracts with Microsoft et al and flips you the bird?

This is why it's laughable when America says they're the champions of Liberty and Justice -- because they're actively fighting anybody else in the world getting that, which means the rest of the world knows you're lying, and is starting to not give a crap about what America wants.

Re:What is the problem here?

[gstoddart]

The problem is that the US courts ruled that US law does apply in Ireland because Microsoft has a presence in both countries.

And you think that somehow the ruling of a US court absolves Microsoft from Irish law?

Because that's a complete crock of shit, and the only way Microsoft in Ireland exists as a corporation is under Irish law.

So, I'm sorry, but a US court cannot compel a foreign citizen or corporation in that country to break local laws just because there is a relationship with a US company.

The problem is that a US court believes it has the authority to make Microsoft Ireland violate the laws of Ireland, when Microsoft Ireland isn't under the legal jurisdiction of that US court. And that's simply not true.

Microsoft is saying "If you want this, go to an Irish court, but don't demand that we break the law for you".

Re:Fix

[Opportunist]

The US cannot force a sovereign foreign company? The US can force (or "persuade") entire countries and groups of countries to dance when they play the pipe, you think this would change anything?

TTIP, anyone? So far I cannot see anything in there that is NOT exclusively beneficial to the US and puts everyone else at a severe disadvantage, but do you see any kind of protest against it from inside governments?

Re:A different kind of justice for multinationals

[gstoddart]

I'm not arguing that you are "wrong" merely that your argument omits the crucial element of property ownership in play.

Property ownership of a legal corporate entity doesn't mean that the parent entity can compel the owned entity to break the law. Corporations exist entirely under national laws of incorporation.

And Microsoft, the parent, cannot absolve Microsoft, the child, from the applicable laws.

So if it would be illegal for an Irish citizen to comply with this order without an order from an Irish court ... then Microsoft Ireland if it breaks the laws in Ireland would be pretty much screwed. Microsoft USA can't do an end-run around Irish law just because they can get someone outside of Ireland to do it.

I would sincerely hope Microsoft Ireland would face giant fines, and someone would be sent to jail.

Wholly owned subsidiary is the not the same as property. That wholly owned subsidiary is a legal entity in Ireland which is 100% subject to Irish laws.

Some American court doesn't have the jurisdiction to make that legal entity violate local laws. It's delusional to think otherwise.

Mere whim of the US courts doesn't mean Irish law can be ignored.

You're drunk, America. Go home and sleep it off.

[TrentTheThief]

I wish times were simpler and my country wasn't such a fucking arrogant, pushy, bastard.