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New Proposed Path for Manned Trips to Mars: Let Mars' Gravity Capture Spacecraft

As illustrated in this article at io9.com, the conventional method considered for launching a manned craft to Mars might make less sense, even if it takes less time, than a more complicated but more efficient means akin to a method that's been already been successfully used to minimize the amount of fuel used in exploring both within and beyond the solar system. Known as the "Hohmann Transfer" method, this type of maneuver is known to be effective. But it is also quite expensive and relies very heavily on timing. Hence why a new idea is being proposed which would involve sending the spacecraft out ahead of Mars' orbital path and then waiting for Mars to come on by and scoop it up. This is what is known as "Ballistic Capture", a new technique proposed by Professor Francesco Topputo of the Polytechnic Institute of Milan and Edward Belbruno, a visiting associated researcher at Princeton University and former member of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. In their research paper, which was published in arXiv Astrophysics in late October, they outlined the benefits of this method versus traditional ones. In addition to cutting fuel costs, ballistic capture would also provide some flexibility when it comes to launch windows.

27 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. I think its gonna be a long long time by rossdee · · Score: 2, Funny

    Mars aint the kind of place to raise your kids

    1. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's got to be better than New Jersey.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by rudy_wayne · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's an interesting idea, but getting *TO* Mars isn't the real problem. The biggest problem, that nobody is talking about (because they have no idea how to solve it), is *LANDING* on Mars.

      http://www.universetoday.com/7...

      The real problem is the combination of Mars’ atmosphere and the size of spacecraft needed for human missions. While the Apollo lunar lander weighed approximately 10 metric tons, a human mission to Mars will require three to six times that mass, given the restraints of staying on the planet for a year. Landing a payload that heavy on Mars is currently impossible, using our existing capabilities. "It’s this ugly, grey zone. There’s too much atmosphere on Mars to land heavy vehicles like we do on the moon, using propulsive technology, and there’s too little atmosphere to land like we do on Earth. Until we come up with a whole new system, landing humans on Mars will be an ugly and scary proposition."

    3. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Uhhh, I think you could decelerate to subsonic velocities at the proper moment and then continue falling. If it works for the Falcon 9 first stage, under much worse conditions then in the Martian landing scenario (spacecraft mass and gravity), it should work on Mars, too. But I guess it would cost you even more fuel than purely propulsive landing on a Mars-sized body without atmosphere, which is bad enough already.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Dan+East · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That article is from 2007. Since then a Sky Crane was used to land the 1 ton Curiosity rover on Mars. I think it's pretty clear that we simply may not land an entire 100 ton payload as a single vessel, but would instead land the various supplies, habitats, and people as separate payloads. Perhaps they all come on a single ship (unlikely), but there's no reason with our current technology that we couldn't land the pieces separately. Worst case would be the humans don't land close enough to the supplies to be able to survive long-term, in which case Plan B is to explore similar to how the Apollo Lunar program did, and head back after several days. Then a later mission would bring another set of people to use the supplies already delivered.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    5. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Nidi62 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Why send/land everything at once anyway? Send living/experimentation modules and any needed non-perishable supplies or equipment such as vehicles on previous missions. Then send in a manned mission with perishable supplies/experiment subjects (seeds, plants, animals, whatever) afterwards. This allows for smaller payloads that can land easier, and has the added benefit of being easier to launch from Earth. It also gives you the chance to resend any critical supplies should one of the landings go wrong or land really off course.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    6. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's perhaps an even more compelling argument why the atmosphere is good for us if we intend to land on Mars AND launch again: ISRU and the Sabatier reaction could be a huge win. If you plan to spend a few months on the surface, you can generate a ton of methalox fuel using the local atmosphere and only half a ton of water. Even if you needed to bring the water with you (which would be the safe option, I guess), it would effectively double your engine's Isp! You could even produce fuel for the trans-Earth injection this way, further saving the total Martian payload you'd need to launch. Without the atmosphere, none of this would be possible.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Rei · · Score: 2

      How exactly would that happen? Isn't ballistic capture's main drawback that it's slower than a Hohmann transfer?

      Isn't leaving crews drifting in space longer increasing one of the main challenges of a mars mission - crew survival in transit?

      --
      I am a proud traitor to my species in alliance with my mother the Earth in opposition to those who would destroy her.
    8. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      Except that your terminal velocity on Mars is orders of magnitude higher than on Earth. Decelerate to subsonic then fall and you'll be back supersonic in no time.

      I'm sure this is possible to do, but it absolutely requires more research and testing.

      --
      I am a proud traitor to my species in alliance with my mother the Earth in opposition to those who would destroy her.
    9. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Well, at the point when atmosphere starts becoming a nuisance and you're forced to do a braking burn, isn't it safe to deploy some reasonably sized parachute afterwards? It's not like you're going to hit the ground with it, you just need to keep your velocity reasonably in check.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by confused+one · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This has been standard NASA thinking for decades, that it was too hard to start an engine in the supersonic regime, hard to control flight, and therefor too risky to incorporate into any mission. However, SpaceX has shown that you can relight an engine pointed into a supersonic flow, and maintain control of the vehicle with the engine pointed into the supersonic flow. It's not without flaws, but it works. There are groups inside NASA that are beginning to rethink the old arguments and investigate this for use in future applications.

    11. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yeah, but experience with gigantic hypersonic parachutes is also rather limited.

      Again, it's really doubtful that there's any show stoppers here. But there's a lot that needs to be done before you can bet a whole mission on these sort of things. There's many thousands of little details that could kill the crew if they go wrong, so the odds of any one doing so must be kept to the tiniest fraction of a percent.

      --
      I am a proud traitor to my species in alliance with my mother the Earth in opposition to those who would destroy her.
    12. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by AnotherBlackHat · · Score: 2

      Minor quibble - instead of water, you send hydrogen, only takes 1/8 of a tonne.

    13. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think you could decelerate to subsonic velocities at the proper moment

      The "proper moment" is before you enter the atmosphere. So no. As soon as you enter the atmosphere, you can't do a retro-burn until you are subsonic, and you can't slow to subsonic without multiple hypersonic and supersonic parachutes. (Terminal velocity for a capsule on Mars is supersonic. You would hit the ground before you slowed enough to be able to fire retro-rockets.)

      The only alternative is to have enough fuel in Mars orbit to do a retro-burn that virtually zeros the orbital velocity before you enter the atmosphere. And, by definition, that takes as much fuel as it does to launch from the surface into orbit.

      Have a look at the entry sequence for MSL-Curiosity, hypersonic heat shield, supersonic drag-chutes, huge subsonic parachutes, and retrorockets, because the parachutes aren't enough to let you land on the surface. And every stage pushed the state of the art to the limits of current technology. All that just to land 900kg.

      Now imagine what you'd have to add to land a multi-ton human-scale capsule...

      Oh, did I say capsule? No. You have to get back home, so you need to land an entire launch vehicle on the surface of Mars. Plus all the infrastructure necessary to refuel and launch that vehicle.

      under much worse conditions then in the Martian landing scenario

      Earth reentry is much easier than Mars. A nice fat atmosphere to bleed off all your velocity, down to subsonic, before you even worry about parachutes or retro-rockets. Mars' atmosphere is just awful. Too thick to be ignored, too thin to be useful. Exactly, precisely wrong.

      --
      Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
    14. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by Cyberax · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The best idea I've heard is to make use of aerodynamic lift for that, so instead of falling down on a purely ballistic trajectory you make large enough surfaces to actually _fly_.

      You won't be able land like airplanes (or Space Shuttles) do on Earth, but you'll be able to use the lift to cause a stall. If you are careful then you can make your vertical speed to be zero at that moment and your horizontal speed will just be subsonic (I remember reading calculations proving that) for a reasonably shaped airfoil. Then you can use retro rockets to bleed away the remaining speed.

      It's complicated, but we have some experience with Space Shuttles that we might be able to reuse.

    15. Re:I think its gonna be a long long time by cjameshuff · · Score: 2

      Except that SpaceX has performed multiple supersonic retro burns, so your chain of reasoning breaks at the first step. Supersonic retro burns have been avoided previously due to uncertainty as to whether it'd work, not because of certainty that it wouldn't. They have now been flight proven.

  2. Wrong optimization by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

    For a manned mission it is necessary to minimize time, not fuel.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Wrong optimization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Send the supplies ahead the slow way, just like cargo/freight ships.
      Then send people the fast way, like on airliners.

    2. Re:Wrong optimization by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Unless you do ISRU, of course. At that point, you'll be sending at most a lot of water (but much less then the fuel extracted this way).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Wrong optimization by confused+one · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Send the supplies ahead the slow way, just like cargo/freight ships. Then send people the fast way, like on airliners.

      This. the described method could be used to litter Mars' orbit with supplies, which would be scooped up by the planet periodically.

    4. Re:Wrong optimization by dryeo · · Score: 2

      Wouldn't that result in the supplies spread out over the Martian surface? Mars is big and the supplies need to be deposited close to where the explorers are going to land.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  3. Misleading quote of TFA by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 3, Informative

    So, we start with the quote about a Hohmann Transfer, in such a way as to suggest something completely different.

    I'm sure there was a good reason for that, though TFA itself manages to mangle a bit of orbital physics all on its own, in addition to whoever submitted/edited the /. suumary....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  4. Re:Also incorrect by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    If you look at a Hohmann's ellipse, it would appear that you can get fairly significant shortening of the interplanetary trip by a fairly marginal increase in the Earth departure speed. The problems with it are the increased rendezvous speed at Mars (aerocapture perhaps necessary?), and the fact that it doesn't shorten the whole mission, just the trip. In other words, you get a longer stay at Mars. But that could be useful, too, it could cut down the radiation exposure a bit and maximize the mission's scientific output.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  5. Didn't we already... by GNious · · Score: 2

    Wasn't this already addressed recently?

    1) This is horrible for manned craft, due to the much longer flight-time resulting in higher costs for maintaining the crew
    2) This is far from new, though so far only used for getting to the moon
    3) ... uhm, I'm sure there were more points

  6. Why link to Gawker instead of the original article by TechnoGrl · · Score: 3, Informative

    Why is this linking to a Gawker site (IO9) instead of the actual original article at:
    http://www.universetoday.com/117615/making-the-trip-to-mars-cheaper-and-easier-the-case-for-ballistic-capture/

    The Gawker site merely copies/pastes what the original article states plus ad LOADS of additional advertising.
    How does this get past the Slashdot editors? Was this an intentional Promo or has Slashdot declined just this much these days :(

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    ----- In Your Cubicle No One Can Hear You Scream...
  7. Re:Why link to Gawker instead of the original arti by nitehawk214 · · Score: 2

    Gawker sites are always useless clickbait advertising traps. Thus they have so many sites linking to each other for more advertising clicks. What passes for journalism there is simply reposting other people's work. Buzzfeed actually manages to be worse (you know it is bad when Gawker calls someone out for plagarisim.)

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  8. Re:The important unanswered question by bsolar · · Score: 3, Informative

    As far as I know it's impossible to do in KSP. This is due to KSP not simulating gravitation effects from multiple bodies: you get only the gravitation effect from a single celestial body depending on which "sphere of influence" you are in. This is also why you don't have Lagrange points in KSP.