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Vast Nazi Facility Uncovered In Austria; Purported A-Bomb Development Site

Posted by timothy on from the zat's-not-my-department-says-werner-von-braun dept.

schwit1 (797399) writes "Suspiciously high radiation levels around the Austrian town of St. Georgen an der Gusen had long fueled theories that there was a buried bunker nearby where Nazis had tested nuclear weapons during WWII. Those suspicions came one step closer to being confirmed last week after the opening of a 75-acre underground complex was dug out from below the earth and granite used to seal off the entrance, the Times of Israel reports. The excavation team was led by Austrian filmmaker Andreas Sulzer, who says the site was "likely the biggest secret weapons production facility of the Third Reich" — a facility that probably relied on forced labor from the nearby Mauthausen-Gusen concentration camp and may have even been the testing location for a nuclear bomb, the Daily Mirror reports. The weapons facility was believed to have been manned by SS General Hans Kammler and situated near the B8 Bergkristall factory, where the first working jet-powered fighter was created, International Business Times reports; Sulzer first got wind of the site after seeing references to it in an Austrian physicist's diary. The Washington Post cautions that while "the full scope of what occurred inside those reported chambers in the Austrian town of St. Georgen remains unclear and Sulzer’s conclusions are speculative, some analysts are already trumpeting the findings. ... The reported findings, if corroborated by further inquiry, could add fresh fodder to an ongoing debate over the Third Reich’s ultimately failed attempt to secure an atomic weapon."

14 of 292 comments (clear)

  1. Non-scientist at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Film-maker digs through granite, measures radiation, concludes there have been nuclear weapons. Right. It's not like granite is one of the most radioactive materials in the world.

    1. Re:Non-scientist at work by sumdumass · · Score: 5, Informative

      This is a funny thing about secret facilities. Often, their locations are kept secret from even the people working in them. Of course those building it would have a clue but slave labor was often killed so a lot of those builders could have been dead before the end of the war.

      Now we do know that some people did talk about it. They just couldn't point to the location which makes sense if it was secret. So a handful of people at the end of the war probably knew the location and it is possible that they were killed during the end of the war or put on civilian clothing to pretend to be a foot soldier and not imprisoned or executed. Of course those people are not going to officially talk because we still go after Nazis for qar crimes. What we end up with is rumors like what was there for years.

      I can see it happening. But only because most the people involced died and people though it was nornal to happen.

    2. Re:Non-scientist at work by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      If we want to learn what happened, then we need to hand out immunity against further prosecutions for people who talk.

      Lots and lots and lots of people were given immunity for talking. Werner von Braun was an early member of the Nazi party, a member of the SS, and was involved in the deaths of thousands of slave laborers and civilians. He was not only given immunity for his cooperation, but in 1975 was awarded a medal by the US government.

    3. Re:Non-scientist at work by Richard_at_work · · Score: 5, Interesting

      While I lived at RAF Gatow, Berlin (dad was in the RAF) during the 1980s, we used to play a heck of a lot in the extensive woods on base - we even played in and around the fairly large bunker on the edge of the airfield. Until, that is, someone discovered a second entrance to the bunker, and a second level - full of aircraft engines, parts, and about 200 tonnes of WW2 era high explosive in the form of rockets, bombs and other stuff. There were two chambers each about the size of a basket ball court.

      In the four years we were there, they discovered previously unknown cellars in three major buildings on base (including the Havel School), and a two mile long tunnel linking the airfield with the Havel river.

      All of this on an RAF airbase which covered only a few square miles, and had been active in allied hands since the end of WW2.

      There is plenty yet to be discovered in ex-Nazi occupied land, mark my words.

    4. Re:Non-scientist at work by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yes, your convoluted conspiracy theory involving thousands of people may be correct. Or some film maker may be doing some self-promotion. Gee, I wonder what William of Ockham would think?

      More evidence for theory #2: There has been no third party confirmation. There is no photo of the site. The photo accompanying the article is of a completely different underground bunker, in Bavaria.

    5. Re: Non-scientist at work by TWX · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's complicated. von Braun was the foremost rocket scientist of his time, and possibly of all time. Had there not been a war he probably would have continued to push rocket technology. Assuming he was just as nationalistic for his country as you are for yours, would you find it wrong to join professional associations that would allow you to pursue your career interests or to advance your military through your professional capabilities in support of your country against its foes? Remember, the Nazis didn't start killing Jews and other civilians en-masse right away, and my guess is that by the time Jewish slave labor was being applied to projects this technical he really didn't have a choice but to continue if he wanted to remain alive.

      It's very easy, in hind-sight, to judge people for decisions or actions they took when they didn't know what the outcome of that decision, or of combined decisions and outcomes several combinations later, would be. Did von Braun get off easy? Yes. Could he have been prosecuted for his participation in an entity that engaged in war crimes? Probably. Would he have had a defense much better than, "just following orders," or, "I would have been killed if I didn't continue," or such? Probably not. Had the Soviet Union not gotten their hands on their own slate of Nazi rocket scientists he probably would have been prosecuted rather than embraced, but once the decision was made to embrace him, that was that. He did go on to make the most historic and arguably significant human achievement possible.

      von Braun's legacy will always be complicated. His name will probably only be applied to celebrate things that are related to his field, as his name is forever tarnished by his Nazi past and unsuitable for celebration as any kind of hero outside of his field.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    6. Re: Non-scientist at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      True. I have to say as a Brit visiting Huntsville in Alabama, it was a shock to find that they named the local exhibition centre after the designer of the V rockets that hit London during WW2.

      And I was not shocked when I visited the United Kingdom and found that they had built a memorial to Lord Kitchener, a man that was responsible for the murder of tens of thousands of South African civilians through neglect born of incompetence, arrogance and mindless prejudice. It seems visiting South African Boers, it seems, regularly go there with the intention of urinating on the memorial. That may shock the sentiments of the average patriotic Briton but the Boers hated both Kitchener and his country with such passion that many of them fought with the Germans during WWI although these days most of them reserve their hatred for Kitchener in particular.

    7. Re: Non-scientist at work by thrich81 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Let me add to your excellent post -- having grown up in Huntsville during the 60's and the peak of von Braun's American fame (not infamy, yet), he serves as an almost perfect corner case for techies to consider as to how they would fit into their larger society to advance their technical dreams. von Braun did not ask to be born into what would become Nazi Germany and when he started working for the army there it was before the Nazi atrocities started. He wasn't particularly interested in weapons and by all accounts his goal was always space flight. The German army resources allowed him to pursue the development of the rockets he had been working on for years before, at that time Germany was not yet the horror it would become. By the time the really bad stuff started happening there -- the deadly slave labor, which his project was involved in, he was stuck -- continue the work or head to prison or execution, most likely the latter by that time in the war; he was arrested in 1944 and released only due to the intervention at the highest levels (Albert Speer, Minister of War Production). Those slave laborers (which he claims to not know the extent of) were doomed from the start; there is nothing he could have done for them. So, just what was he supposed to do? -- given that there was nothing he could have done to improve the lot of the populations under Nazi control? The fact that he was working on weapons aimed at the civil population of England could be problematic but by then the English and American bombers were incinerating German cities. He didn't have the option of just quitting and going away to work on something else. Given the same circumstances what would any of us techies had done? I don't know and I'm glad I will never have to find out. There is an excellent recent bio (2007) of von Braun by Michael Neufeld which tries to address the moral ambiguities of von Braun's life -- worth a read.

  2. Hitler and the NAZIs were so stupid. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    If they were truly the Master Race, they would have realized that banking is the way to go to control or destroy the World.

    Look it now. Merkel pretty much controls Europe - thanks to the Deutsche Bundesbank. And without a single shot fired. I think I'm gonna send my kids to Merkel Youth camp where they can grow up to be bankers, make billions for doing nothing other than rent seeking, fees, bonuses and commissions.

    STEM?! Pfft! That's just a fairy tale that's told to you peons to keep you in line.

    1. Re: Hitler and the NAZIs were so stupid. by prefec2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do not believe that she is only a puppet. She is doing her job too well. However, she is a friend of Friede Springer (a German news corporation) which has in its charter to be anti communist and to foster the bonds towards the US. Merkel has perfectly understood how to stay in power in a democracy when backed by media and other influential figures of the upper class/global elite. However, she is not a democrat of her own. She is also not interested in the idea of a united Europe. She is more interested in free trade, as this suits herself and her cast. She also only opposed Cameron when he was against open borders, as this would hinder free movement of the poor people and be anti-neoliberal.

      BTW: Cameron only promised a vote on EU membership, as straight conservatives in his party and UKIP required that from him. And in Germany votes on such topics are not expressed in the constitution, because when the constitution was written, allies and German politicians did not trust the population enough to give the people so much power.

  3. Tunnels everywhere, A-bombs nowhere by mailuefterl · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some of these claims seem to be overblown.
    If you take a look at the Manhattan Project, you get an idea what efforts in research and production (i.e. uranium enrichment) were required.
    The Nazis never had a programm that came anywhere near these dimensions.
    All they had was a handfull of phsysicists (most of the best had emmigrated to the US anyway) and a small research reactor.
    So while there was some nuclear research, there never was a atomic bomb or anything close to it in Germany.

    And the tunnels? The whole 3rd Reich and it's occupied territories were tunneled mostly for the purpose of weapons production.

  4. I actually live here by vikingpower · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And St. Georgen-an-der-Gusen is about a good hour's drive away. I'll certainly visit the place once it is opened up for the public. It is quite amazing what lengths the Nazis went to in order to shelter their weapons production from Allied bombing. Just outside the town I now live in, the Nazis dug out an existing cave complex, which had been a gypsum mine up to WO II, until the volume was large enough to facilitate a complete HE162 jet fighter production line.

    --
    Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
  5. I live in Austria, first thing I hear about this by crabel · · Score: 5, Informative

    I just searched for St. Georgen: The current top story in local newspapers is: A lumberman was hit by a bouncing branch. Of course, that Nazi story can be found too, but it doesn't get a lot of attention. Nobody cares because there is simply no story. That filmmaker just dug a hole and found a staircase. That's all. Well, that's not a 100% correct: They also found an army helmet, an army bike and several warning signs. Not really surprising, since it was a well known nazi base. But hey, maybe the staircase will indeed lead to a super-secret 75-acre nuclear testing underground complex dug by 320.000 inmates that died from it. Or maybe these numbers are simply completely bogus too. The actual number of victims in KZ Gusen (I + II + III) was 44.600, that includes children and people that died from exhaustion after they were freed).

  6. Bah! Already seen in the Captain America movies by mtm10 · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's the original Hydra base.