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Finnish KRP Questions Suspected Lizard Squad Member

Posted by timothy on from the breaking-off-the-tail dept.

An anonymous reader writes Coming on the heels of the UK arrest of Vinnie Omari, Yle reports that Finnish police have interviewed "Ryan", the Finland-based hacker reportedly responsible for hacking the PlayStation and Xbox networks on Christmas day, but have not arrested him — contrary to reports in the international media (such as Washington Post). Lizard Squad had tweeted that the Finland-based hacker had been detained. Chief Inspector Tero Muurman of Keskusrikospoliisi (Finnish National Bureau of Investigation) confirmed Yle that reports of "Ryan" having been detained were wide of the mark. He had been interviewed at the start of the week, but then released. Finnish police are continuing their probe and co-operating closely with the FBI.

62 comments

  1. Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    In case you might have missed it, this "Ryan" is 17 and wasn't detained obviously because he's underage. When he showed his face on Sky News Finnish authorities knew exactly who he was as he's been caught of being up to similar script kiddie stuff before and escaped being charged due to being underage.

    We're talking literal script kiddies here people... Nothing impressive about renting/borrowing a botnet and then directing a DDOS attack with the command tools.

    1. Re:Script kiddies at work by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 2

      wasn't detained obviously because he's underage

      Yes, very obvious, as we're all so familiar with the Finnish legal system.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    2. Re: Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're responsible under the criminal law at the age of 15. Under 18 you only get sentenced jail time for severe crimes. Even under 15 you're responsible for the damages caused. Under 18 you also have greater protection of privacy which is why the police is pretty quiet in this particular case.

    3. Re:Script kiddies at work by CurryCamel · · Score: 0

      Being Finnish, I am sort of familiar with the Finnish legal system.
      That said, I don't understand why the police would even want to arrest him. I mean, he is a script kiddie, not a dangerous criminal.
      They probably told his parents, who are now in the process of mending their mistakes in this juvenile's upbringing.

    4. Re:Script kiddies at work by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I see. So there should be consequences for acts of vandalism, other than the parents can "mend" his ways.

      We wouldn't want the poor whittle kiddies having to face consequences. That make might them sad pandas.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    5. Re:Script kiddies at work by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      Criminal immunity up to age of 15. 15 to 18 you get incremental increase to full criminal responsibility.

      You remain liable financially however, so you can incur an impressive debt from damage you cause

    6. Re:Script kiddies at work by TWX · · Score: 2

      That said, I don't understand why the police would even want to arrest him. I mean, he is a script kiddie, not a dangerous criminal.

      Just because he's a 5cr1p7 k1dd13 doesn't mean that he can't cause significant harm, making him a dangerous criminal. He could simply disrupt important batch processes like bank financial transfers and worker payroll direct-deposits or realtime processes like aviation communication and control or the civilian telephone system if the vulnerabilities discovered by others are exploitable by his scripts, which can have significant real-world consequences for individuals. That's not even getting into disruptions for corporations whose Internet-connected businesses are a revenue source, that are not generating revenue when they're not accessible.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    7. Re:Script kiddies at work by CurryCamel · · Score: 1

      They DDOSed two gaming networks at a time of their peak load, seemingly for the lulz. There is a non-subtle difference between that and taking down critical networks, both in attitude and required skills.

      I haven't read into these DDOSes any more deeply, but thus far I have not found anything that even suggests at them breaking into the servers (except the headlines that seem to inclucde DDOS attacks as "hacks").

      Furthermore, e.g. the Daily Mail reports that

      Three rival hacking groups have called a ceasefire after admitting their Christmas attack on Xbox and Playstation gamers 'took it too far'.

      It is obvious the script kiddies have started to repent to some extent. Dangerous criminals usually don't.

      Finally, even the arrested brit is out on bail now, so obviously he is not a dangerous criminal either.

      Let me ask this the other way: what benefit would come out of arresting the kid? Do you honestly fear he would continue and escalate his criminal activities now?

    8. Re:Script kiddies at work by TWX · · Score: 0

      If they DDOSed and took-down gaming sites at their peak load, then they caused harm to all of the customers of those sites by making them inaccessible. They have also damaged the company that ran those sites if customers have discontinued using the service because of that outage.

      I don't really give a damn if they've started to repent after-the-fact. As far as I'm concerned, if they'd been in a room with a whole slew of gamers and had taken down the gaming servers and been outed, and the gamers had beaten them to pulp, that would have been justifiable. It at least would have offered a legitimate target for the anger that they gave those people through denying them a service that they paid for.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    9. Re:Script kiddies at work by cryptolemur · · Score: 0

      If you seriously think that causing a minor inconvenience warrants beating someone to pulp, then I think you're bigger threat to society than this kid is.

    10. Re:Script kiddies at work by Oligonicella · · Score: 1

      Causing "minor inconvenience" to *thousands* of people and multiple businesses isn't minor at all. I believe it is you who lacks perspective as to harm to society.

    11. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pulp them? Why not just bring back lynching? ~

    12. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real harm lies in proprietary software and DRM, which Microsoft and Sony wholeheartedly support. Not that these mere script kiddies even care about any of that, but I just find it funny that people talk about harm while ignoring the actual harm that these corporations do.

    13. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing impressive about renting/borrowing a botnet and then directing a DDOS attack with the command tools.

      Well except that the botnet is over a hundred thousand compromised Linux boxes. But, gee, Slashdot doesn't want to talk about that.

    14. Re:Script kiddies at work by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Causing "minor inconvenience" to *thousands* of people and multiple businesses isn't minor at all. I believe it is you who lacks perspective as to harm to society.

      Inconveniencing gaming is minor no matter how many thousands of people or businesses are affected. I know that people and businesses spend millions on it but still, Its Just A Game.

      Sheesh, how many productive hours must be generated for every hour of DDoS on gaming sites???

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    15. Re:Script kiddies at work by ShaunC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let me ask this the other way: what benefit would come out of arresting the kid? Do you honestly fear he would continue and escalate his criminal activities now?

      Hasn't he shown a propensity to do just that? He got caught carding food at DEF CON in 2013. More recently he spent three months in a detention facility for that bomb threat against a Sony executive's airplane; he even joked about his haircut looking bad because they shaved it for him in jail. He got out, went home, and proceeded to step up his game by DDOSing the hell out of PSN and XBL. There does seem to be a pattern of continuing and escalating criminal activity.

      I'm not arguing that he's dangerous or that he needs to be locked up for 5 years, but if he's guilty, I do believe there has to be some sort of punishment. Make him pick up litter every weekend until he's 18, or something productive that benefits society.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    16. Re:Script kiddies at work by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Hmm, I don't know, grounding him for a month, and taking away his computer for a week or two would probably be as effective as a ten year sentence.

      Remember, they're script kiddies, which, before /. and the internet went to the dogs, is one level up from being a newborn user. They're the equivalent of angsty teenagers, and should be dealt with as such; anyone arguing otherwise has had life too good.

    17. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Of course there should be consequences; He should be grounded. He should lose several weeks of pocket money.

      Anyone who built a h mserious system which can be trivially disrupted by a 17 year old "script kiddie" as the OP rightly called him should be considered for much more serious penalties.

      Although the FBI is probably wrong about North Korea attacking Sony, they could have done it. People who have been involved in deliverying weak operating systems or weakening crypto systems or failing to react to vulnerability reports should be subject to serious jail terms. If we don't start to handle this soon we will be in serious trouble when some country actually wants to do something a bit more important than just stealing the plans for the F-35.

    18. Re:Script kiddies at work by DivineKnight · · Score: 1

      Being that he's a script kiddy, the hole's he's exploiting have to be known to the world + dog for months, years, possibly decades...this is on the order of having a hole in your living room for weeks, and doing nothing about it, when a hurricane shows up and makes you miserable.

      He's underage, a script kiddy, and is truly a threat only to those people who think that 'pa$$word1' is an innovative password.

    19. Re:Script kiddies at work by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      All it would take is a swift kick to my front door for any burglar to gain access to my living room. A small fire set outside would torch my house. My car is sitting in my driveway, waiting for it's tires to be slashed. Boy, I'm just asking for it, aren't it?

      It's incredibly difficult to practically protect against a very large DDOS attack. Sure, we should look for ways to mitigate this, but at the moment, the only real way to do so is a brute force content of bandwidth versus capacity.

      An open and free society is incredibly vulnerable to vandalism of all sorts. Part of living in a free society means taking responsibility for your own actions. This "kid" is seventeen, old enough to know exactly what the hell he was doing. Assuming he gets found guilty, I hope he's tried as an adult, and he's punished sufficiently to make other kids think twice about pulling stunts like this. In the mean time, we need to figure out how to prevent a kid from being able to take down global networks at a whim.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    20. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Let me ask this the other way: what benefit would come out of arresting the kid? Do you honestly fear he would continue and escalate his criminal activities now?

      Make him an example to the rest of them.

      Hack for lulz, get cut off at the knees.

      No mercy whatsoever.

    21. Re:Script kiddies at work by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      And that is why US is a shithole in terms of crime rates, while Finland isn't.

    22. Re:Script kiddies at work by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      That is the exact opposite of how actual crime prevention works, and the best way to ensure a lot of crime through recidivism and institutionalization of crime.

      Real approach here is involving social workers and psychologists to get the guy sorted out.

    23. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You americans are corporate lackeys and sheep. You always overreact when it comes to business and minimal monetary losses. What about punishing the companies for lack of security, security by obscurity and actually manage to get whacked of the net for the 'lulz' by some angsty teens. Where is the "corporate responsibility" towards their shareholders and consumers? You americans are so sheepish it isn't even fun to laugh at you anymore, sheep...

    24. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In full agreement with you. I guess it's no wonder USA has become such a shit-hole it's all about punishment and getting revenge, nothing about rehabilitating and improving. The have no sense of proportions and proportionality.

    25. Re:Script kiddies at work by TWX · · Score: 1

      Inconveniencing gaming is minor no matter how many thousands of people or businesses are affected. I know that people and businesses spend millions on it but still, Its Just A Game.

      So is professional sports. Yet, someone that disrupts a game is likely to be arrested and prosecuted. Someone that disrupts a broadcast through malicious or intentional act even if the game itself continues will also be arrested and prosecuted.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    26. Re: Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just send their home address to all the pissed off parents that couldn't get Xbox or PSN to work for their kiddies on Christmas Day. This is the kind of thing an angry mob, with cliche torches and pitchforks, is for!

    27. Re: Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If these kids were in the U.S.A. they would probably be facing 40 years in prison for their crimes! In a country where drugs can get you more years in prison than a homicide. The whole judicial system is fucked in the good ol' U.S. of A!

    28. Re:Script kiddies at work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, great plan.. but where the HELL you find litter in Finland? It's so rare that every time I actually see some it still gets into my nerves thinking how someone can be THAT STUPID to not pocket the trash and unload when best to do so. I once saw someone throw trash.. I asked, hey you dropped this.. the answer was something in Russian. I couldn't make heads or tails what she said.. probably told me to fuck off and mind my own dick. Go figure.

    29. Re:Script kiddies at work by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      none of which is as serious as hitting someone in the face, for which the jailterm isn't that much in Finland.

      and you know what, if those systems are so shittily built they go the fritz from that, then good riddance. I'm not aware there having been any serious actual damages from whatever the group did. did someone break a bone? did they steal something of monetary value? did they break some hardware?

      DANGEROUS CRIMINAL! CALL THE FEEEEEEEDS!!! bullshit. none of this is as serious as vehicular manslaughter for which you can get off for free in NYC.

      so put your priorities in order, they're messed up.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  2. Does not sound like hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First hackers were people with skills to do cool things, then it was people breaking in to stuff and now it is anyone who are vandalizing something.

    1. Re:Does not sound like hacking by TWX · · Score: 1
      "Hacker" was a poor choice of term from the beginning if one didn't want it to become a pejorative. Think of all of the other actions that the word hack gets applied to:
      • Hack saw - a saw to make rough or nonprecision cuts in material
      • to hack at a problem - to inexpertly attack a problem through excessive trial-and-error rather than to approach with experience
      • a hack - an individual that may achieve results, but through coincidence or through excessive uninformed stumbling through the problem, often selling themselves as an expert anyway
      • hack and whack - a melee, a free-for-all with little skill or planning or strategy, relying on brute force or quantity

      That's the legacy of "Hacker", and it's already a negative. It's worse now, but it was never a positive thing to start with.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:Does not sound like hacking by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      IMHO, "hacker" is as good or bad a term as "amateur", to me they are really the same thing. The word "amateur" starts out great - doing something for the love of it, rather than money. But you mostly hear it used as a pejorative - oh, he's just an amateur, he doesn't really know what he's doing (because obviously people who get paid to do what they do really do know).

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    3. Re:Does not sound like hacking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why doesn't Microsoft and Adobe take resposibility for their software which is so easy to abuse.

  3. Denied involvement? by eli+pabst · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From the linked article: "Muurman had said that the investigation was in its early stages, but that “Ryan” was suspected of aggravated data crimes, but denied involvement."

    That's not terribly convincing considering that he did a 5 minute video interview with Sky News the other day where he described the attack and took responsibility for it.

    1. Re:Denied involvement? by Wintywasthere · · Score: 1

      It seems these guys really aren't all that smart.....never been involved in anything like this in my life but FFS....if you were, you don't advertise it.

    2. Re:Denied involvement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's just acting like one of the most despicable idiots in our parliament (or who at least used to be but I don't want to google it because I fear the trauma from seeing her quasimodo face). She stated in the media that "smoking pot was one of the least dumb things she's done" which resulted in the police bringing her in for questioning. At that point she of course STFU completely so nothing came from it. I should probably explain that drug laws here are relatively strictly enforced even though the penalties aren't very severe.

    3. Re:Denied involvement? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      It may come as a shock to you, but a lot of people confess to crimes they don't commit.

      That's why we have courts of law that have high standard for evidence they accept, instead of lynching mobs that require "this guy looks different enough" to get the rope out.

    4. Re:Denied involvement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I guess they saw the interview and that's why they are on his tail. But of course in Scandinavia we have laws, procedures and something called evidence. It's not like in america all "shoot first ask questions later". We are quite proud of our functioning society, liberty and civil rights where we can challenge those in power. It's funny you in the 'land of liberty, home of the brave' think we are stupid because of this.

  4. KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by BigIrv · · Score: 2

    duh

    --

    --Good morning fellas; Hand me that thing; Boy, this work's hard; Guys, break's over.
    1. Re: KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Was he Head of the Class?

    2. Re: KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wrong. That was WKRP.

    3. Re: KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by jones_supa · · Score: 2

      Well, at least the Ku Klux Klan Supermarket can easily be found.

    4. Re:KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Mod +1, (Funny)

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    5. Re:KRP is in Cincinnati, not Finland by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      they really should have been more careful. see, the phone cops are real. they've always been real.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  5. Skript kiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is /. giving these script kiddies so much press?

    1. Re:Skript kiddies by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Because I asked them to.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  6. If only by easyTree · · Score: 1

    If only murders were investigated with as much rigour as IP-related 'crimes.'

    --
    Requiem for the American Dream
    1. Re:If only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I mean they rigorously questioned him and let him go. What absolute bastards eh.

    2. Re:If only by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Murder is very rare in Finland and investigated extremely rigourosly. In an (in)famous case ten years ago a woman killed* her husband and tried to stage an alibi by making a 112 (European equivalent for 911) call and playing back a recording of "two men beating her husband" in the background (according to her either burglars or disgruntled employees due to recent layoffs at his company). The police had an undercover officer start a romantic relationship with her in order to gather information which AFAIK (based on watching the FBI files and other real world case reconstructions) is a pretty unusual method to be deployed when years have passed since the crime and IMO definitely borders the unethical. The call recording was even sent to the FBI when a second specialist opinion was needed.

      And then there's of course the DNA from blood sucked by a mosquito case which even inspired some Law & Order episode.

      *) There's yet another appeal pending but I make the assumption here that it is correct and things went the way the prosecution argued.

  7. Lost in translation? by mbeckman · · Score: 1

    Let me get this right: Ryan wasn't detained, but after being interviewed he was "then released."

    Perhaps the Finnish language is to blame here, but by this translation he was clearly detained.

    1. Re:Lost in translation? by CurryCamel · · Score: 1

      Precisely.

      According to a news article dated 29.12, the police announced they intend to interview 'Ryan' in the coming days.
      (http://yle.fi/uutiset/epailty_suomalaishakkeri_krpn_kuulusteluun/7710003) Sounds to me like they asked him to come to the interview. No detaining or arresting involved.

      I guess it is not the Finnish language that is to blame here, but the mentality.

  8. Hacked PlayStation and Xbox networks? by lippydude · · Score: 1

    "Coming on the heels of the UK arrest of Vinnie Omari, Yle reports that Finnish police have interviewed "Ryan", the Finland-based hacker reportedly responsible for hacking the PlayStation and Xbox networks on Christmas day"

    Timothy this is slashdot, try and be a bit more technical. They didn't 'hack' the PlayStation and Xbox networks, they ran a DDOS attack on them from thousands of compromised Windows desktops ..

    1. Re:Hacked PlayStation and Xbox networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The little asshole that tries to play technically smart actually said that? Give us a break.

    2. Re:Hacked PlayStation and Xbox networks? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lippydouche always tries to play smart but is nothing more than a menial wannabe.

  9. Re:Lets just hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In EU 15 is enough, you can charge him for damages (how many millions?)

    He'd be a slave to Sony for the rest of his life, never making a penny for himself, never being able to own a car or a house, his life is essentially forfeit.

    He'll realise how futile his attempts are within a few years, and commit suicide.

  10. Re:Lets just hope... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Not quite. Under Finnish law, overwhelming personal debt expires in three years after entering a mandated debt repayment agreement. There are also significant limits to what can be taken from him to repay such a debt.

    These laws were put in place after a massive disaster in the 1990s when Finnish economy suffered a crisis similar in magnitude to that of 2007 in US which pushed a lot of small business owners into scenario you describe. Current system is designed to allow these people to get back on their feet and start business again.

  11. Re:Lets just hope... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Europe/Scandinavia isn't United States of Liberty yet. We rehabilitate our criminals, economic failures and give them another chance to get back into society. You americans still have the mentality of a mob from the middle ages.

  12. Did Everybody at /. have a Bad Christmas? by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 0

    Geez, a script kiddie denies all you Slashdotters time with your new shiny Playstations and XBoxes on Christmas morning and you are all howling for blood.

    Not defending the kid or anything - he'll be an ant squashed under a steamroller in a few months I'm sure. But some of you guys need to shut off the consoles, get out of the basement, and take a deep breath of perspective.

    --

    Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

    Vote for Bernie in 2016!

  13. Interview in Finnish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They interviewed him for large Finnish magazine:
    http://nyt.fi/a1305912430161

    He says he is self-taught, flunked out of 2nd degree education (because it was trivial and boring) and still lives with his parents. He says his role in the attack was only a PR person, and he did not participate in the attack himself. And he made 10 000 euros (~$13 000) one day just by writing a simple security tool.