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AMD Catalyst Linux Driver Catching Up To and Beating Windows

An anonymous reader writes: Along with the open-source AMD Linux driver having a great 2014, the AMD Catalyst proprietary driver for Linux has also improved a lot. Beyond the open-source Radeon Gallium3D driver closing in on Catalyst, the latest Phoronix end-of-year tests show the AMD Catalyst Linux driver is beating Catalyst on Windows for some OpenGL benchmarks. The proprietary driver tests were done with the new Catalyst "OMEGA" driver. Is AMD beginning to lead real Linux driver innovations or is OpenGL on Windows just struggling?

30 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by fozzmeister · · Score: 2

    ... So with OSS drivers this will almost certainly be my next graphics card / chipset.

    1. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by bhcompy · · Score: 3, Funny

      1998 called and wanted its joke back

    2. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      you whippersnappers these days, we had to ctrl alt delete 5 times a day and liked it! no one had ever even gotten one to run for 40 days uptime anywhere. did i mention our clock speed was 120mhz and we had to reinstall windows from 54 floppy diskettes and had a 1 gb hdd!

    3. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Funny

      you whippersnappers these days, we had to ctrl alt delete 5 times a day and liked it! no one had ever even gotten one to run for 40 days uptime anywhere. did i mention our clock speed was 120mhz and we had to reinstall windows from 54 floppy diskettes and had a 1 gb hdd!

      You hipsters - we had to do a power cycle to restart, and no windows, floppies, of hard disks - just a 1mhz cpu, a couple of tape drives, and a serial port. And we had FUN!

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    4. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

      Well, 2008 anyway. My AMD 4870's blue screen'd Windows XP and then Windows 7 on boot pretty regularly (and yes, I sent them back for testing but all appeared okay per DiamondMM). I finally replaced them with a pair of nVidia boards which just has the driver bail every once in a while and killed Firefox until I disabled the hardware acceleration option in Firefox.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    5. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 3, Funny

      Crimney, back in my day we had a paper and a pen! And when the paper crashed we had to abandon all our work and start over! We didn't have any of that "non-volatile" storage space beyond the pressed pulp!

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      Rawr
    6. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 2

      I see that on windows 7 boxes they use at work, but no problems with AMD/ATI as of several years now (2D only).

      That's why you aren't seeing any issues. AMD's Windows drivers tend to run quite well, once you get them installed. The trick is installing the drivers for their higher end hardware (as opposed to simple Rage-derived chipsets for workstations and servers). It can be a Sisyphusian task to upgrade the software some times.

      So far, it looks like AMD/ATI is following through on years of pro-FOSS PR, and that is important to me because there are just two main vendors in the graphics category.

      Slowly it's becoming three, with Intel's HD Graphics and Iris hardware. It's still lower-midrange, but they're much closer to the big boys than they were back in the days of the GMA950.

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      Rawr
    7. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 3, Informative

      You're an idiot

      Ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere. But then again I guess that's why you're an AC.

      Nvidia has been worse for nearly a decade

      That article is from 2008 (seven years isn't exactly "nearly" a decade in my book) and reflects an issue specifically involving causes of crashes for Windows Vista about a year after the OS came out. And you'll notice that while Nvidia is the largest single contributor to that pie, less than 30% of crashes were their fault. And, actually, if you read the original article from which Engadget derived their story this is a study from specifically around the launch of Windows Vista, not its entire lifecycle. And the data is very vague, as they say in the article, "in theory, NVIDIA's proportion of total driver crashes could be inflated by a relatively small handful of systems with severe driver issues." So this statistic is actually pretty useless without additional data.

      That also doesn't indicate anything having to do with non-system-crash related issues, such as non-fatal crashes or poor system performance. It's also reasonable to assume that Nvidia has since fixed that issue with Windows Vista, as I don't remember there being any kinds of crashing plagues involving Nvidia hardware in Windows 7, 8, 8.1, or even 10 Technical Preview.

      and most of the time ATI cards have a better performance/price ratio too, as you can see in most articles, including tomhardware's "best graphics card for the money" series (90% or so have been ATI cards for as long as I remember).

      From when, and in what categories? I'm not denying that AMD makes a good graphics card and they have delivered, and do deliver the most bang for your buck at certain price points, but your claim is flimsy at best since Tom's updates these almost quarterly, as GPU manufacturers release new hardware throughout the year, and across several performance/price points. So naturally when AMD releases a new GPU they're likely to take the top spot in the high performance category, just as it's likely that when Nvidia releases a new GPU they might take the top spot.

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      Rawr
    8. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      you whippersnappers these days, we had to ctrl alt delete 5 times a day and liked it! no one had ever even gotten one to run for 40 days uptime anywhere. did i mention our clock speed was 120mhz and we had to reinstall windows from 54 floppy diskettes and had a 1 gb hdd!

      You hipsters - we had to do a power cycle to restart, and no windows, floppies, of hard disks - just a 1mhz cpu, a couple of tape drives, and a serial port. And we had FUN!

      You really don't want to hear what booting a PDP-8/e involved. Oh, you do!

      First, utter magic incantations (perhaps under one's breath or inaudibly) while turning the key switch which powered it on. Check for no error lights (hence the magic incantations) recalling that this was in the days before LEDs. Next, toggle in an address on the binary switches on the front panel and latch it. It's best if this is a fairly low address, as this will save some time. Then toggle in an instruction and latch it. Luckily, this was a 12-bit machine, so addresses and instructions were short, being limited to 0-4095. Increment the toggled address, and toggle in another instruction. Repeat for a short while, then set the toggle switches to the first address, and execute the program. Now it's in read-in mode! Toggle in an address which is above the last one used, and latch it. Then toggle in and latch a succession of instructions (read-in mode automatically increments the addresses for you). After sufficient instructions have been entered, the toggles are set to the start of this program, and execute the program is commanded!

      The machine will now read in the bootstrap card (a card full of resistors and capacitors which had traces cut to provide ones and zeroes), and execute the bootstrap loader program which it finds there. On our PDP-8, this had a simple driver for a tape and would read in the OS from a tape drive. You did remember to load the correct tape, didn't you? If not, it's back to square one.

    9. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by unrtst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      ... but no problems with AMD/ATI as of several years now (2D only)... ...and that is important to me because there are just two main vendors in the graphics category.

      Slowly it's becoming three, with Intel's HD Graphics and Iris hardware. ...

      [bold part by me]
      If we're talking about 2d only, then it's definitely at least 3 vendors, and there are some others that are perfectly fine in that realm.

      To the AC GP, It's also not at all fair to say you haven't seen any problems for a few years while qualifying that you've only used 2d. The whole damn article is about 3d performance, and that's the part of the driver that is the most complex and has the most proprietary bits. I haven't had any problems with my AMD/ATI cards on my headless servers either, but that's hardly relevant.

    10. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by ThurstonMoore · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Both of you probably have a piece of shit power supply. Buy a new, high quality power supply and most of your crashing will go away.

    11. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by rainmaestro · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you ever want to see just how bad nvidia is in Linux, get a laptop that has their Optimus abortion. My laptop at work regrettably has that.
      With stock Intel drivers, display works but there's no acceleration, so performance is shit.
      With stock nvidia or nouveau drivers, performance is great but can't use external monitors (because they are tied to the Intel chip)

      Getting both working at once required a kernel built from source, a backported package from the testing build, a package from a PPA from a child distro, three dependencies built from source because of conflicts between the distro packages and the bleeding edge kernel I had to use, and the nightmare that is bumblebee. I don't dare run an update on this system because fuck knows what will break.

      Meanwhile, my last three laptops at home have been AMD-based. Install Catalyst, reboot, everything is beautiful. It is remarkable how far things have swung. I remember AMD being verboten back when I first got into linux because of how godawful the support was.

    12. Re:Always struggling with a Dodgy NVS mobile... by Bigbutt · · Score: 2

      Corsair 750W.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
  2. Who does the work? by jones_supa · · Score: 2

    Who does all this hard work? Didn't AMD just fire a bunch of Linux developers?

    Either way, at this point both the FGLRX and RADEON driver seem to be almost as good choice as Intel HD Graphics for Linux use. Good job.

  3. That's no achievement! by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 3, Insightful

    AMD's Linux drivers are catching up to, and beating, the Windows drivers? That shouldn't be hard, given that the Windows drivers are a steaming load of fetid moose crap. The drivers are the reason I switched back to Nvidia. Their Linux drivers may be proprietary and a little fidgity, and the FOSS Linux drivers may be worse than junk, but at least I don't have to nuke a whole system install just to upgrade Catalyst, and once they're installed the friggin' work!

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    Rawr
    1. Re: That's no achievement! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Its not only about open source, its also about choice and not being rail roaded into walled gardens like a few os's today

    2. Re:That's no achievement! by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 2
      I am using Windows. I also use Linux. For me it's about the right tool for the job, and if Avid Media Composer ran in Linux then that would be one less reason for me to use Windows.

      And either way, this story isn't about open source, it's about AMD's proprietary drivers. Says so in the summary.

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      Rawr
  4. Video Playback? by crow · · Score: 2

    The OpenGL stuff is nice for gamers, but what about for the HTPC? How well do the drivers do on video playback acceleration? Can they do MPEG-2 and H264 in HD resolutions with minimal CPU?

    I don't suppose they can play a 1080i video and get the fields consistently correct for letting the TV handle the deinterlacing (or keep it interlaced if the TV is an old tube HDTV)?

    1. Re:Video Playback? by Djoulihen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, the xbmc team did completely give up on trying to use hardware acceleration with the AMD prioprietary fglrx driver and switched to the OSS radeon driver in late 2013.

  5. Re:So what games run in Linux? by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 4, Informative

    Does anyone think the numbers are there to get any big gaming studio to do games for Linux?

    Valve does. Hell, they've created their own Debian spin-off, SteamOS to try and woo developers away from Windows. And so far, I'd say they're doing a decent job as the number of games available on Linux has jumped since the announcement (let alone since the beta). Well reviewed titles like "Battleblock Theater," "XCOM: Enemy Unknown," "Super Meat Boy," "Borderlands 2," and "Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel" are all available on Linux through Steam.

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    Rawr
  6. What about also focusing on features ? by Djoulihen · · Score: 2

    I am very glad that AMD is improving the performance of their driver on Linux but I wish they would focus more on adding features that have been present on Windows for years. For instance, support for hybrid AMD/Intel graphics really sucks on linux laptops. You have to manually select the graphics card you want to use and restart your computer each time you want to switch between desktop use and gaming. On windows you can select which card to use for each application. Overheating and battery usage is also worse on linux than on windows. Finally, I wish suspend/wake would work as flawlessly on linux with the fglrx driver as it does on windows.

  7. Re:So what games run in Linux? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

    Not just the new ones - even some of the older games are being ported to linux now, though probably only en route to the promised Steambox.

    I just finished Postal 2 on linux. Aside from steam achievements not being done yet, it worked flawlessly at max-everything. There is something satisfying in playing a character who responds to everyday irritations with outrageously over-the-top violence.

  8. Re:So what games run in Linux? by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 2

    Not just the new ones - even some of the older games are being ported to linux now

    That's why I mentioned "Borderlands 2," which was retroactively ported. Gearbox is a hell of a developer, though, continuing to provide support to their games (and ports) long after they've disappeared from shelves, so I wouldn't expect this to be the norm for your AAA titles like "Call of Duty."

    though probably only en route to the promised Steambox.

    I see no indications of that. The filter in Steam reads "Linux+SteamOS" implying that the two aren't to be split. And after all, it's just Debian. No reason to think these games wouldn't operate under any other Debianesque system, as they currently do.

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    Rawr
  9. Re:AMD's PROPRIETARY driver by Kichigai+Mentat · · Score: 3, Informative

    It's implied with the name "Catalyst." The FOSS drivers have never been referred to as "Catalyst" except in momentary errors.

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    Rawr
  10. No.. they really haven't by CajunArson · · Score: 3, Informative

    All that was shown here is that AMD's *OpenGL* drivers on Linux aren't too far off from AMD's *OpenGL* performance on Windows.

    Considering that AMD's OpenGL Implementation on Windows is kind of a joke compared to D3D, and considering that AMD is now even dumping D3D in favor of its proprietary* Mantle platform, this article basically proved that AMD's Windows OpenGL support is also lacking badly.

    * Before anyone says Mantle is "open": AMD's executives promised an SDK published by the end of 2014... didn't happen. AMD has made zero efforts to make Mantle work on any OS other than Windows... hell, while DX11 ain't an open standard at least I can go online and get docs on how to write a program using DX11 and make it work on Windows... you can't even do that with Mantle!

    --
    AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
  11. Re:OpenGL by sebastianlacuesta · · Score: 2

    Rage: http://rage.com/ Wolfenstein - The New Order: http://wolfenstein.com/

  12. Re:WINE Re: Gaming on linux by lolocaust · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Emulation applies to API function call emulation as much as it does CPU instruction emulation since the function calls are translated to native system calls in the same way, and the term can even apply to network protocol emulation, HDD command emulation, BIOS emulation etc.

    Using your definition a Z80 emulator is merely an environment of Z80 CPU instructions, which just shows the distinction is inconsistent with itself.

    You don't get to redefine the English language just because you have a popular FOSS project, especially when the term is well established for the same process in every other domain of computing.

    --
    Why does my post history abruptly stop? I want to laugh at the stupid things I posted as a kid.
  13. Re:Encouraging, but not sure it's relevant any mor by jones_supa · · Score: 2

    My experience is that games for Linux run surprisingly well, but the Linux desktop has become complete garbage.

  14. Re:So what games run in Linux? by i.r.id10t · · Score: 2

    They already did 15 years ago. I put my money where my mouth is - I use Linux not just for the Freedom, but for a stable OS, and yes, I'll cheerfully pay retail for software. In fact, I just unearthed my copies when I cleaned my garage yesterday. All Linux branded versions of Quake 3, Unreal Tournament, UT GOTY Edition, UT2004, Soldier of Fortune, MechWarrior II, Descent 3d, and quite a few others from Loki Games. I even found my unopened l33t tin editon of Q3 for Linux.

    Of course, now my son wants to set it all up and play them.... :)

    --
    Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
  15. Hope it catches up to nVidia by chris_clay · · Score: 2

    Having multiple options is good. For years, nVidia has lead the way on the Unix/Linux platform with its graphics driver support (despite it being proprietary software). The Nouveau project has supplied the free and open alternative to the proprietary driver. It is good to know there is some momentum for the ATI line, time will tell how close it can get or if it can exist at the same level as nVidia. Personally, due to the excellent support, I only buy nVidia graphics hardware so they have gained my business by providing a good Linux driver. I've been a happy customer for years. If ATI can get to that level I would consider looking at their products as well.