Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More

Posted by samzenpus on from the joining-the-party dept.

An anonymous reader writes with news about 15 new brand partnerships Nest announced today. "When Google purchased Nest Labs – the maker of Internet-connected thermostats and smoke detectors – the search engine giant saw the potential to create a software platform for controlling the myriad everyday devices and gadgets in consumers' homes, a central hub for the so-called "Internet of things." This vision took a major step towards becoming reality Monday morning, when Nest announced at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas that 15 new partners were joining its "Works with Nest" developer program. Soon, everything from washing machines to light bulbs will be connected with the Nest platform."

109 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A bunch of people with money they need to part with. The rest of us will continue to not give a crap.

    I neither trust, nor do I want this ecosystem of interconnected crap which puts my house on the internet so that I can access it via my fscking cell phone.

    So, buy into this, suckers. Get your house hacked, or your personal habits sold, or whatever.

    I'm going to continue to assume that most of the vendors jumping on this are a) interested in the analytics data for advertising, and b) grossly incompetent/indifferent to security. I trust neither the intention nor the competence of these companies.

    Get off my damned lawn with your pointless gizmos. I have a key and a programmable thermostat which isn't connected to the interweb.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >I neither trust, nor do I want this ecosystem of interconnected crap which puts my house on the internet so that I can access it via my fscking cell phone.

      If a hacker wants to pwn my thermostat, that's probably the least of my problems.
      However being able to set the thermostat with my phone is excellent.

      If there are other excellent internet connected gizmos for which control by smartphone is excellent, I'll be buying them. But I don't see the door lock being one of those things due to the more significant security issue.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Internet of Hype ... by msauve · · Score: 1

      "Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More"

      Reminds me of an old joke:
      Patient: Doctor, will I be able to play piano after the surgery?
      Dr.: Of course.
      Patient: That's great, I never could before!

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    3. Re:Internet of Hype ... by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But I don't see the door lock being one of those things due to the more significant security issue.

      Letting a repair people in remotely could be very convenient. That way you don't have to be at home to let them in.

    4. Re:Internet of Hype ... by dontbemad · · Score: 1, Insightful

      It never ceases to amaze me how "stop liking what I don't like" posts get moderated to +5 Insightful.

      Where is the insight here? Other than the clear insight into the poster's fear of experimental, new technologies and applications.

    5. Re:Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      It's your phone and your house, you do as you please with them.

      I see neither a need for any of this stuff, nor do I see why I would trust the companies selling it.

      Me, I expect this is written by incompetent chimps who need to get a product to market and don't give a crap about security, and I see all of this juicy data being collated and sorted and sold. And hacked, and subpoena'd and misused.

      Every 6-12 months for the last 30 years there's always been "the next big thing". And except for a very small number of them, most of them have all failed and simply been nothing but hype. It's all marketing and no substance.

      You kids might think your cell phone is the be-all and end-all. Me, I think texting is about as far as I'm interested in what my phone can do, because I have no need of it, and it doesn't actually improve my life in any way.

      But, hey, I'm a grumpy old man with little interest in automation and other gizmos. Frankly, I'm bored with it, and have seen enough epic failures that I simply don't care enough to find out if I trust it.

      And in many many cases, these technologies just die on their own anyway. So me bitching about it has pretty much no effect other than being able to laugh about it after it happens.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    6. Re:Internet of Hype ... by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Right and you would trust the repair guy doesn't accede risky break your security cams while legitimatelyoving tools into the correct location? Letting a repair man in when no one is around is the fastest way to get robbed.

      Also anything online is hack able. Thermostat yawn no big deal. The worst that happens is either you spend to much I hear one month or you pipes burst in the cold. However door locks? That would be like the old school garage door opens where 50 codes existed and you could drive down the street looking for places to rob.

      I am not a fan of mfc locks either but at least someone has to be physically close for that.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    7. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      But I don't see the door lock being one of those things due to the more significant security issue.

      Letting a repair people in remotely could be very convenient. That way you don't have to be at home to let them in.

      I can do that with my current (non internet) code entry door lock. You set up a secondary code. Tell someone. Change it later. Maybe useful, but the thermostat phone control is useful every day.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    8. Re:Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hey, in all honesty, you are free to conclude I'm a crank. That's OK, my wife would agree with you.

      But after 20 years in the tech industry, and 30+ years playing with technology ... this is just another new bit of hype, which stands at least a 50/50 chance of utterly failing, and which provides little compelling need for 99% of us.

      Go ahead, fetishize technology, lament how we don't have flying cars, and walk around all pie eyed and dreamy about the awesome future. I've seen enough to assume it never turns out as rosy as promised, and comes with a new bag of shit most people didn't think of.

      I'm not saying "stop liking what I don't like", because I don't give a rats ass what you like.

      I am saying that, like Microsoft's Smart Home they've been hawking for 15-20 years ... this is overhyped technology which will never see the light of day for most people, and which is purely in the domain of people who have surplus money they wish to part with. It's the epitome of first world problems, and should be treated as such.

      For the most part, I consider most forms of futurists to be deluded people who think The Next Big Thing is going to change all of our lives. And in 20 years will be laughed at in by going through old issues of Popular Mechanics.

      Of course, these days, nobody will have a stack of old blogs, so they won't even remember it.

      Once you've seen a bunch of "Next Big Things" become last years "Dumb Fucking Idea", it becomes a default position. :-P

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    9. Re:Internet of Hype ... by swb · · Score: 1

      However being able to set the thermostat with my phone is excellent.

      I'm curious what the value of this is. How valuable is on-demand remote thermostat changing?

      Programmable thermostats capable of 4 settings per day and 7 per week are common and cheap and all the ones I've owned going back to the late 1990s have the intelligence to adapt to the time required to reach the set point by the scheduled time (and learn as they go, so they adapt to changes in the outdoor weather). Most will also manage variable holds and one-off changes in temperature and automatically revert to the programmed settings (or not, which is an option).

      Not everyone is on a regular enough schedule where a programmable thermostat by itself will line up with a totally random schedule, but then again, I'm not sure what the meaningful energy or comfort differences being an hour or two off an "estimated" schedule would look like, either.

      About the only situation where it would be meaningful I can think of is if I set it to hold a temp while I was gone for N days in the summer and I came home two days earlier and didn't want to come home to a hot house. But even when that's actually happened, it's like maybe 4 hours after getting home and resuming the program until the temperature is pretty much back to normal. Even after an hour when it's still warmer than I'd like, the system has tamed the humidity which makes a big comfort difference.

    10. Re:Internet of Hype ... by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      I can do that with my current (non internet) code entry door lock.

      That works except when one forgets to set the temporary code.

    11. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I can do that with my current (non internet) code entry door lock.

      That works except when one forgets to set the temporary code.

      I keep it in my phone.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    12. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      >I'm curious what the value of this is. How valuable is on-demand remote thermostat changing?

      The value is in being able to set it from bed, rather than getting up, stumbling downstairs, fiddling with the knobs and stumbling back up the stairs to bed.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    13. Re:Internet of Hype ... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure anyone sees an internet connected thermostat as "the next big thing;" but that doesn't mean it's not a fantastic convenience device and that the learning features are saving people money.

      https://community.nest.com/thr...

      Other than a few people who have incompatible multistage heat pumps, and ignoring the sort of conformation bias by those who opted in early, there's still good savings to be had with a smart thermostat. Connecting it to the internet makes it even more aware. It can save me more money if it knows I'm not coming home tonight, and not to bother heating up the house until I'm actually on my way.

      I'm not rushing out to buy Bluetooth door locks (mostly since we rarely lock the doors in our milquetoast suburban neighborhood), but products with the "Works with Next" logo seem a no-brainer if you've already got some devices that can talk to each other. It may not be a big hassle to take your keys out of your pocket when you come home and walk over to your thermostat once you're inside the house, but some of us like convenience and automation. Google's keeping an arm's length from Nest, but as soon as location services is fully integrated, I'll be happy Nest realizes we all left the house without turning down the thermostat and lowers it for us.

      Most of us recognize you're as get-off-my-lawn of a regular as Slashdot has, but you might be missing the boat on something like Nest. It's a good product, and "works with Nest" is simply a sign that other manufacturers have realized it too.

    14. Re:Internet of Hype ... by timelorde · · Score: 3, Funny

      I'm the programmable thermostat at home; my wife is the controller...

    15. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      > this is just another new bit of hype, which stands at least a 50/50 chance of utterly failing,

      Nope. It's a thermostat. It works. It's $100 one time and you stick it on your wall.
      It could physically fail in some way, but that's true of many things.

      The 'smart home' is the dream of marketing fantasists that think they can sell many things to each homeowner. In fact they can sell 1, or maybe 2 things, once. Let's not confuse the reality (phone controlled thermostats) with the strawman (smart homes riddled with security flaws).

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    16. Re:Internet of Hype ... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Where is the insight here? Other than the clear insight into the poster's fear of experimental, new technologies and applications.

      Experimental? Is that written somewhere on the side of the box?

    17. Re:Internet of Hype ... by Firethorn · · Score: 2

      Or you tell it to activate when you're leaving work early or such. Heck, I could see an application keeping track of you and warming your place up(or cooling it down) when you get within a certain radius of your house.

      I have a programmable thermostat. It's a pain in the butt to program, and I'd love to have a 'I'm home' button rather than having to press the temp+ button numerous times.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    18. Re:Internet of Hype ... by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      I didn't say "forget the code" I said "forget to set the code". How do you set the code on the lock if you are at work?

    19. Re:Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nope. It's a thermostat. It works. It's $100 one time and you stick it on your wall.

      No, you're kind of missing the point.

      See, we already all have those now. Nest doesn't really bring anything new here until you connect it to the internet.

      What I'm saying is the entire Nest platform, with it's interweb connnnectivity, and sending all of your data to Google ... that's the thing I expect/hope to fail.

      Let's not confuse the reality (phone controlled thermostats) with the strawman (smart homes riddled with security flaws).

      I can almost guarantee you that Nest has a security flaw in it. That the mechanism by which you can control your thermostat with a cell phone will have a security flaws in it. And that the companies who make things for this ecosystem will create crap with security flaws in it.

      If you think it is either possible or likely these things don't have security holes in them, you probably haven't been paying attention. Because companies who make internet connected devices are either indifferent or incompetent when it comes to security.

      There is no straw man here.

      This is technology, which is piggy backing on smart phones and the internet, providing marketing and analytics data to the mother ship, and which almost certainly will be demonstrated to be exploitable.

      I think the entire premise of the Nest ecosystem is of dubious value, and of even less reliable security.

      I think having a Nest thermostat means you already have a "smart" home riddled with security flaws. And every connection point to that doubles the ways in which it can be exploited. And, it makes sure Google has access to information from inside your home it never had before.

      I'll pass on the entire technology. Because, as I initially said, I trust neither the intentions, integrity, or ability to implement security of anybody involved in this.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    20. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I'll stop typing now. I should be writing system verilog, not slashdot posts.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    21. Re:Internet of Hype ... by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      > Thermostat yawn no big deal

      Depends on where you live. Here in Seattle, every home I've been in that was built in the past twenty-five years has electric heat. If you turn the thermostat up too high, you will be likely to start a fire. My last house caught fire when the thermostat shorted out. I thought the house was too hot when I was leaving to meet a friend, but I was in a hurry so I didn't check on it. When I got home, my house was full of smoke and there were wisps of flames from the wooden frame around my window just above the electric heat. Another few minutes and it would have spread. Also, several fires a year here are started by children turning the thermostats up all of the way. Because there's no forced air in the vast majority of homes in this area, the heater can get hot enough to light paper and wood on fire while the thermostat still reads below 90.

      I've got some bad news - the internet connected thingy... say... the next, for example... can still set your house on fire if it shorts out. Being IoT buzzword-ready does not imply that it is safer than the mechanical one.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    22. Re:Internet of Hype ... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      However being able to set the thermostat with my phone is excellent.

      Seriously, how often does one fuck with their thermostat? The (programmable) one I have for my heat pump is set with low/high points and auto-switches between heat/cool to keep the house in that range. I cannot remember the last time I needed to change the setting, perhaps last year when I changed the whole-house HEPA filter and reset the counter.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    23. Re:Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Connecting it to the internet makes it even more

      Stupid.

      Sorry, but no. Having my house connected to the internet doesn't sound like it has any upsides to me.

      Having it providing all of that information to Google and who knows who else ... well, that's kind of my point. I don't want a thermostat and technology infrastructure in my house whose privacy policy can be rewritten any time they like.

      I'll give you a privacy policy: no internet connections to crap like thermostats and washing machines; No security problems, and no problems which originate from Google et al being bigger assholes than they admit to.

      I'm not prepared to provide my location information to Google so that it knows I'm not home. Fuck that.

      If I'm on the tinfoil hat end of the spectrum ... WTF would I add connectivity to my house for random appliances and enable more tracking for?

      I'm staunchly against that kind of crap. I have no interest in that kind of crap. I'm actively avoiding that kind of crap. Nest is precisely that kind of crap in my opinion, and therefore not trustworthy.

      Most of us recognize you're as get-off-my-lawn of a regular as Slashdot has

      LOL ... that's the nicest thing anybody has said to me so far this year. ;-)

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    24. Re: Internet of Hype ... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      I like that my house that can take hours to heat up can be turned on towards the end of a long vacation.

      I also like that my programmable thermostat learned how long it takes my house to heat for various outside temperatures, and when to cut off the radiators so it doesn't go past buh any degrees.

      I had had a thermostat in the past that could have some of those things manually entered, but without knowing the outside temperature, and without really learning how much thermal mass was in the radiators, it never really worked right, no matter how hard I tried.

      Granted, not all of this requires the Internet, but the vacation thing does, and it's a perk I use way more than I though (I travel for work, and randomly visit friends fairly often, I don't waste gas, and I don't come home to a coldhouse )

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    25. Re:Internet of Hype ... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      Almost all multi-story houses that I'm familiar with have separate thermostats per floor - either with completely separate systems handling each one or with a zoned system where valves control which floors are receiving heating/cooling (ie, downstairs might already be cool, but its hotter upstairs, so the unit is cooling but the vents downstairs are closed off so that downstairs doesn't get colder). If you're letting a thermostat downstairs isn't going to be even remotely accurate for the temperature upstairs.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    26. Re:Internet of Hype ... by swb · · Score: 1

      How often do you actually change the temperature? About the only time I feel compelled to do it is when the outside temperature drops below about -10F; something about temperatures that low allow the periphery of the house to cool off faster than the core where the the thermostat is, making some rooms a little chilly.

    27. Re:Internet of Hype ... by MBGMorden · · Score: 1

      I don't get it ether. I'm comfortable at no higher than 76 and no lower than 70. I set my thermostat to those min/max temps 2 years ago when I moved in. I haven't had to touch it since.

      I think too many people are just anxious to be fiddling with something. Doesn't matter if it's necessary or useful - they just feel the need to be fiddling with it.

      --
      "People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
    28. Re:Internet of Hype ... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Other than a few people who have incompatible multistage heat pumps, and ignoring the sort of

      Or **any** single stage heat pump. Setbacks with heat pumps cost you money. The most energy efficient means of heating and cooling in many regions is a heat pump... WTF NEST?!??

      conformation bias by those who opted in early, there's still good savings to be had with a smart thermostat.

      Connecting it to the internet makes it even more aware. It can save me more money if it knows I'm not coming home tonight, and not to bother heating up the house until I'm actually on my way.

      I would like to see anyone cite a study establishing measurable savings on the use of NEST vs standard programmable thermostats.

      Just a week ago a bigwig from NEST was interviewed on CNN saying NEST = 20% average savings...

      There has got to be a study supportive of NESTs claims accessible to the public? Or perhaps you think antidotal BS in the form of the forum link you posted is a suitable alternative?

      Most of us recognize you're as get-off-my-lawn of a regular as Slashdot has, but you might be missing the boat on something like Nest. It's a good product, and "works with Nest" is simply a sign that other manufacturers have realized it too.

      I'm so tired of marketing bullshit and the people who parrot it. Those supporting NEST need to back up their claims with reality if they expect anyone to give two shits about what they have to say.

    29. Re: Internet of Hype ... by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Granted, not all of this requires the Internet, but the vacation thing does, and it's a perk I use way more than I though (I travel for work, and randomly visit friends fairly often, I don't waste gas, and I don't come home to a coldhouse )

      My crummy old thermostat has a vacation hold setting you simply enter number of days you will be away and the normal schedule resumes after that time.

    30. Re:Internet of Hype ... by cusco · · Score: 2

      To me, "Works with NEST" means "trivially hackable". I have trouble believing that they've come up with a more secure control system than the security and access control companies, and those can be intercepted. Is Nest going to investigate when your house goes offline like a professional security provider will? No.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    31. Re: Internet of Hype ... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      That's nice.

      I would be essentially as happy with that, no control from the internet, an outdoor temperature probe, and auto learning how long my large freestanding radiators take to heat the house, and hold heat afterwards (so it knows to turn off the heat, even though it's still 3 degrees under where I set).

      I was at the time unaware of a thermostat that does those things, the online usage report and setting are primarily nice extras (with the ability to set a timed vacation mode).

      I may be in the minority (certainly based on the advertising focus), but self-learning schedule and internet connection were the two weakest selling points for me (well that and anything related to AC for now, but the fact that it had a few connections, and they could be programmed for different devices did go into the long-term planning).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    32. Re:Internet of Hype ... by nblender · · Score: 2

      I have a cottage. We keep it at 57F when we're away. When we're there, it's 72F during the day and goes down to 68F at night.

      The problem is, it takes a while to bring the house from 57F to 72F when we arrive in the middle of the day... The furnace is good and the air temp is brought up pretty quickly, but there's a lot of heat mass in a house so it takes a while before the floors are toasty, the toilet seat is not ice cold, the couch cushions are warm, etc... So I have a remotely accessible thermostat (RCS TR60) that I can send commands to via some crafty python and a cellular modem. I set it to 72F in the morning and by the time we arrive, the house is toasty warm and ready to use.

      Sometimes I forget to re-set the thermostat to 'away' before we leave. It's nice to be able to set it down to 57F remotely too...

      The additional benefit is I can remotely monitor the temperature and furnace runtime to get an idea if something's wrong, like my pipes are about to freeze because the furnace blower has kacked; or a bird has broken a window and now the furnace is running pretty much continuously (that happened)...

      Maybe it's an isolated use case, but we appreciate it. And because the code is mine, it's not all cloud-connected and vulnerable.

    33. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      >Almost all multi-story houses that I'm familiar with have separate thermostats per floor
      Not my 3 story house.

      > a thermostat downstairs isn't going to be even remotely accurate for the temperature upstairs
      Yes. I'm very aware of this.

      When I have plenty of disposable cash, I will pay a person in overalls to make it wonderful, but until that time, I'll make do with my $100 nest and an android phone.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    34. Re:Internet of Hype ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Agreed: I don't trust Google at all. They offer a lot of great services for free, but everything they do surreptitiously collects data about the user. If they truly cared about user privacy they would have left this in Android -> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/12/google-removes-vital-privacy-features-android-shortly-after-adding-them

      I distrust Google precisely because they carefully cultivate a public image of caring about people while really they're a global behemoth whose legal obligation is to maximize profit for their shareholders.

    35. Re:Internet of Hype ... by jonhorvath · · Score: 2

      I've developed using my own Internet connected thermostat using Open Z-Wave. Honestly, it has been the most fun I had with computers and programming since the early Internet days during the 90's. I suspect much of the hype is from developers finding a enjoyable use of their skills in creating interesting and useful products.

      The ultimate goal is not to have a thermostat that can be set from a smart phone. A fully connected house with intelligent alogrithms can acomplish some very cool activities. As an example, all my lights would automatically turn off when I go asleep at night. Transmitting these activites through the Internet/Cloud, is my biggest concern with all these new home automation gadgets.

    36. Re: Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      You forgot about the part where they put your locks online. RTFS.

      No I didn't. I specifically addressed it and suggested it wasn't a good idea.

      "But I don't see the door lock being one of those things due to the more significant security issue."

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    37. Re:Internet of Hype ... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      If you turn the thermostat up too high, you will be likely to start a fire.

      Pure BS. Even if someone was retarded/insane enough to build such a product, no store would sell it, no contractor would install it, no insurance company would allow it, and government regulators would ban it.

      I also think you are full of crap about new homes in Seattle using electric heat. That makes no sense at all, unless you mean electric powered heat pumps, which are a completely different thing, and not at all like what you described.

    38. Re:Internet of Hype ... by dontbemad · · Score: 1

      It's the epitome of first world problems, and should be treated as such.

      I think your rabid hatred of it is the real epitome of a first world problem.

    39. Re:Internet of Hype ... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      How about said hacker say turning your heater full blast during the middle of summer or turning your ac on in the middle of winter.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    40. Re:Internet of Hype ... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      Lazy asses that can't be fucked to get their ass off the couch to set their thermostat.

      Just like the pricks back in the day, "I'm calling you from my carphone"

      "I can set my thermostat without getting up".

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    41. Re:Internet of Hype ... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      I can also see how valuable this could be to thieves that would probably pay some hacker for that data.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    42. Re:Internet of Hype ... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      It's a webcam you pay $100 connect it to your computer and you can video chat with friends and family.

      Years later average Joe is astounded his webcam was hacked from poor vendor security practices, and or because they didn't understand enough about securing the technology themselves.

      This is the danger.

      Phone controlled thermostat (read web UI), thermostat gets hacked after I leave for work, it's a whopping -20 degrees in Yellow Knife, my kid gets home to find the family dog frozen to death.

      Elderly person goes to bed, hacker takes control of thermostat elderly person found dead frozen, or dead from heat stroke.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    43. Re:Internet of Hype ... by DjReagan · · Score: 1

      > If you turn the thermostat up too high, you will be likely to start a fire.

      Luckily, Nest also make smoke detectors!

      --
      "When I grow up, I want to be a weirdo"
    44. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      How about said hacker say turning your heater full blast during the middle of summer or turning your ac on in the middle of winter.

      It hasn't happened yet. Nor will it. Because there are a billion ways people can cause trouble, but they generally pick the ways that return money, fame or infamy.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    45. Re:Internet of Hype ... by mythosaz · · Score: 1

      Presumably your "works with Nest" door lock simply announces who has opened the door, and the Nest responds by toggling the thermostat from "away" to "home", plus or minus a few degrees of comfort depending on the user's RFID/BT who opened the door.

      Nest doesn't talk to the door lock at all, it only listens.

      I trust my cars to keyless receivers. I know they're hackable, but much like the Nest, I prefer the security/usability tradeoff of simply walking to my car and having it unlock and having pushbutton start.

    46. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Different home, different place, different risk profile.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    47. Re:Internet of Hype ... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      For example, a couch in front of an electric baseboard heater can be dried out and eventually combust

      That is caused by some moron putting combustible material directly in front of the heater. It is not caused by setting the thermostat too high.

    48. Re:Internet of Hype ... by rthille · · Score: 1

      Only if you're crazy enough to live where the temps fall below freezing!

      (Sent from sunny CA :-)

      --
      Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
    49. Re:Internet of Hype ... by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      I'd be more interested if they provided a server program to run on my own hardware and act as Nest's intelligent backend+database, without an internet connection. It's bad enough that my electrical utility installed smart meters without the option to stick with the normal, non-connected ones.

      I see some potential fun to be had with setting up some home automation, and I see value in pre-built hardware that's designed to work together with other hardware, but it ought to be a system where I have as complete control as possible.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    50. Re:Internet of Hype ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I can just imagine you, so many thousand years ago, seeing your first wheel, and telling all your neighbors not to bother getting one, that it'll never catch on...

      No, I was the guy who rolled his eyes when someone put spinners on it.

      And then I was furious at the first asshole to stand next to a tree telling me how I should go to Ugg's House of Spinners.

      And then I was completely irate when I heard Ugg was selling his client information to other people who wanted to sell me shit -- even if I didn't buy anything from Ugg,

      This is spinners, marketing, and privacy all rolled up in one shiny bauble, and sold to people who will take anything which says "now with intarwebs and, because, social and cloud, and we've got an app for that".

      Nest is a fucking Dilbert Cartoon, and a privacy nightmare waiting to happen.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    51. Re:Internet of Hype ... by Man+On+Pink+Corner · · Score: 1

      always @(story_posted) begin
            first_post = 1'b1;
      end

    52. Re:Internet of Hype ... by SethJohnson · · Score: 1

      I just bought a new $540k condo that has electric baseboard heat.

      Sucker. You were smart enough to post this as AC, but too dumb to recognize that you got sold a crappy place to live for way too much money. Oh, and Seattle.

      --
      $5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
    53. Re:Internet of Hype ... by jandersen · · Score: 1

      However being able to set the thermostat with my phone is excellent.

      Really? It may be 'cool' if you feel it is cool to be able to do that kind of things remotely, but how relevant is it in real life that you can control a thermostat or turn on the oven or the lighting from afar? And even if it conveys some benefit, is it valuable enough that you want to pay the price? Which may, incidentally include loss of privacy or perhaps loss of property, if the remote capabilities also allow thieves easier access.

      It seems similar to the way that some cars detect rain on the windscreen and turn on the wipers - yeah, cool, but the effort it spares you consists of having to reach some 2 inches for a manual switch - is it worth paying for? It's the kind of things you would accept if they are part of a new car you buy, but you wouldn't go to your garage and pay £500 to get it fitted, would you?

    54. Re:Internet of Hype ... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      However being able to set the thermostat with my phone is excellent.

      Really? It may be 'cool' if you feel it is cool to be able to do that kind of things remotely, but how relevant is it in real life that you can control a thermostat or turn on the oven or the lighting from afar? And even if it conveys some benefit, is it valuable enough that you want to pay the price? Which may, incidentally include loss of privacy or perhaps loss of property, if the remote capabilities also allow thieves easier access.

      It seems similar to the way that some cars detect rain on the windscreen and turn on the wipers - yeah, cool, but the effort it spares you consists of having to reach some 2 inches for a manual switch - is it worth paying for? It's the kind of things you would accept if they are part of a new car you buy, but you wouldn't go to your garage and pay £500 to get it fitted, would you?

      The strawmanniness of your post reaches new levels of straw and man. What does my thermostat have to with my garage? That's right - nothing.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    55. Re:Internet of Hype ... by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      I think you over-estimate the value of it. Finding an empty house isn't hard. I'd be more worried about stalkers and such.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
  2. I want this, why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Somehow, I feel that the "internet of things" is just setting up a big hackers playpen, if it isn't a 'steal your info' setup for the Big Corporations.

    1. Re:I want this, why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, it can be both.

      I'm just waiting for the day when some internet thugs not just encrypt your data, but hold your whole house for ransom until you pay up.

    2. Re:I want this, why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Somehow, I feel that the "internet of things" is just setting up a big hackers playpen, if it isn't a 'steal your info' setup for the Big Corporations.

      Gives an entirely new meaning to "Big Brother knows what's going on in the bedrooms of America." The following morning advertisements for the morning after pill and/or contraceptives arrives in your email or as embedded advertisements on the webpages you or your children are reading later the next day. Scarier still are embedded advertisements on the family computer for lingerie because your teenage daughter was posting semi-dressed selfies via her smartphone before you arrived home from work.

    3. Re:I want this, why? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 1

      Oh, it can be both.

      I'm just waiting for the day when some internet thugs not just encrypt your data, but hold your whole house for ransom until you pay up.

      A friend who does hardware security has had to deal with an exploited internet-connected refrigerator that had been hacked into a spam relay.
      So: wait until the day when internet thugs encrypt your data, hold your house for ransom, and while doing that, use your devices to attack other people's houses and encrypt their data, plus rent out your house's bandwidth to DDoS farms.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  3. Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership? by RingDev · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More"

    So anyone who can access your Nest network can now determine your living habits and unlock doors on demand?

    I'm not typically a paranoid libertarian, but really, there are some things I'm 100% fine with handling on a closed network or with my own two hands.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  4. Will it load my washer for me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    If not, then what's the point?

  5. Coming Soon! by kheldan · · Score: 1

    Get murdered in your own house by -- you guessed it! -- the house itself!

    ..or, at the very least: Your house becomes one big surveillance platform to watch your every move. "Don't be evil", indeed!

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:Coming Soon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Even better, some random stranger approaches you on the street and reminds you that you need more milk

      a policeman winks

    2. Re:Coming Soon! by Minwee · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Get murdered in your own house by -- you guessed it! -- the house itself!

      Doors... Locked. Check.

      Lights... Off. Check.

      Nest Protect(tm) Carbon Monoxide detector... Silenced. Check.

      Ventilation fans... Off. Check.

      Gas stove... On. Check.

      Now just wait six hours before undoing all of those, erase a few logs and then wonder how such a tragic accident could have taken place. And you didn't even need to call a SWAT team.

    3. Re:Coming Soon! by toonces33 · · Score: 2

      Open the fridge door, HAL.

      I am sorry, Dave, but I am afraid that I cannot do that.

    4. Re:Coming Soon! by kheldan · · Score: 1

      Actually familiar with the movie. Julie Christie getting railed by the hexagonal metal penis of the ultimate f**king machine, Proteus. So she can gestate a fleshy shell for himself to escape destruction into. Classic. Bizzarre, but classic.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  6. New Definition of "Now" by Yannic · · Score: 1

    Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More
    Ahh, I see we're using the new definition of "now."

    My head is "literally" spinning thinking of the possibilities.

    1. Re:New Definition of "Now" by fche · · Score: 1

      I "couldn't" care less.

  7. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by kheldan · · Score: 1

    Friend, there is nothing wrong with being a little paranoid, it's a survival trait.

    I am heartened to see I'm not the only one who sees the massive problems technology like this can cause. We do not need every damn thing in our homes connected to the Internet.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  8. Sony employees are installing Nest in their homes by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Funny
    Sony has decided to offer free Nest installation and is paying for all of it's employees to have it done.

    What could possibly go wrong?

    --
    excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
  9. Re:But... by wolrahnaes · · Score: 5, Interesting

    At least the first generation of Nest units have Zigbee radios, but they've never been enabled as far as I can find. I have no idea whether the second generation units kept the extra radio.

    --
    I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
  10. Get ready... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "You will be able to unlock your front door after viewing this short ad."

  11. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by Charliemopps · · Score: 1

    "Nest Will Now Work With Your Door Locks, Light Bulbs and More"

    So anyone who can access your Nest network can now determine your living habits and unlock doors on demand?

    I'm not typically a paranoid libertarian, but really, there are some things I'm 100% fine with handling on a closed network or with my own two hands.

    -Rick

    Lol... I always love this argument.

    So you think someones going to hack your wifi when they could just instead just chuck a rock through a window and climb in?

    There are only 1 way to protect yourself from breakins. Ask any cop. People with medium to large dogs don't get robbed. I get woken up if someone even walks by on the sidewalk. Try and crawl in through my window and you'd have 2 large dogs attached to your legs and shotgun in your face shortly after. The lock on your door is useful only in preventing the neighbor from stumbling into your house when he comes home drunk at 3am.

  12. Re:But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Insteon support was added last May, works via the wifi back to an insteon hub.

  13. Yes, but... by peter.kingsbury · · Score: 1

    ...can it be installed on lazy teenagers?

  14. Backdoor.. by jppiiroinen · · Score: 5, Funny

    ..got just a new meaning.

    1. Re:Backdoor.. by drpimp · · Score: 2

      I am pretty sure that was the original meaning.

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    2. Re:Backdoor.. by jppiiroinen · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure that was the original meaning.

      oh, you are right, it must be Backdoor v2.0.

    3. Re:Backdoor.. by drpimp · · Score: 2

      LOL. Or even the "Backdoor of Things" ... so many connotations on that one.

      --
      -- Brought to you by Carl's JR
    4. Re:Backdoor.. by jppiiroinen · · Score: 1

      LOL. Or even the "Backdoor of Things" ... so many connotations on that one.

      :P ..I can see how the lightbulb jokes will advance in the future:

      Q: How many people does notice that a light bulb has worn off before you do?
      A: Your wife, kids and the guy at the NSA.

  15. Google knows all by jd142 · · Score: 1

    everything from washing machines to light bulbs will be connected with the Nest platform

    So now when we say Google knows our dirty laundry, it won't be a metaphor.

  16. Prior Art... by jpellino · · Score: 1

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  17. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by itzly · · Score: 2

    So you think someones going to hack your wifi when they could just instead just chuck a rock through a window and climb in

    One of these things makes a lot of noise, the other one makes you look like you own the place.

  18. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    >So anyone who can access your Nest network can now determine your living habits and unlock doors on demand?

    If someone wants to know my living habits, they can call me. It's easier.

    It reminds me of the DoD guy who used to follow me to conferences to see what I was saying (I do crypto). He approached me (that's how I found he existed) at a conference in the US that followed a conference in China. He said he couldn't follow me to China because he'd lose his US security clearance so wanted to know what I had said there. I pointed out that all the presentations are online and he doesn't need to come to the conference to see what I'm presenting. I never saw him again.

    Sometimes it's easier to ask. If you keep it a secret, it's just creepy government surveillance. If you ask, you can get out of a bunch of travel you don't wan to to take.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  19. In a vacation home I could see it.. by toonces33 · · Score: 2

    I suppose you could tweak the HVAC when you are on your way there so that it is comfy when you get there.

    But other than that it seems kind of pointless. Yet something else to twiddle with just to say you can do it, and then curse the thing when something goes wrong.

  20. Here's the insight by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It never ceases to amaze me how "stop liking what I don't like" posts get moderated to +5 Insightful.

    Where is the insight here? Other than the clear insight into the poster's fear of experimental, new technologies and applications.

    The insight is that this is a subscription model without subscription value. It's an MBA thing, and comes from studying the model without the context in which it is successful.

    Companies see the subscription model as a cash revenue source, and there are several successful examples currently working: NetFlix, iTunes, internet service, phone service, and so on. Get your customers to sign up and sit back and watch the money roll in.

    The problem is when the subscription model doesn't give ongoing service. Fitness monitors comes to mind - you purchase the unit to measure your daily activity level, but you *have* to use their online service to see your results. You can't [easily] download the data to your local computer, and the interface is obscured or encrypted to prevent the user from intercepting it.

    There's no reason for the online subscription, except that it makes money for the company. People eventually realize this and stop using the service and the devices fade into obscurity. See CueCat for an example: This *might* have been useful and *might* have defined a paradigm for website tie-ins in print media, except that the User has to register with zip code, gender, and E-mail address, and the vendor has to purchase a code. Little or no functionality and registration required.

    Companies are drooling over this IOT stuff because they see it as a subscription model and they can sell the user info for even more money, but they don't realize that there is no real value being given in exchange for the subscription. There's really little value in being able to turn your furnace up/down remotely, or unlock your door remotely, or start your dishwasher remotely... and absolutely no reason to do this under a subscription model.

    Joel Spolsky's term for this is "feeble business idea". The attractiveness of the model outweighs the impracticality of the solution.

    1. Re:Here's the insight by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      You don't pay cash, you pay in information. For some services that's a reasonable exchange. Fitbit might be one of them for many people - having your data backed up for you and accessible wherever you go might be important for you. An Internet connected thermostat has value, but it's hard to see what extra value a cloudified one has.

  21. Re:But... by almeida · · Score: 2

    Yes, the thermostats still have ZigBee radios. The first ones were TI chips while the new ones are Silicon Labs (formerly Ember) chips. The smoke alarms have them too.

  22. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by RingDev · · Score: 2

    I agree with you entirely from the point of view of a person attempting to break in to rob the place. This isn't a big deal for that.

    My concern is two fold. Given police tactics for extracting incriminating evidence, even from innocent individuals (Here's a great video on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...), and the courts in our country largely siding with the State and Federal governments in 4th amendment disputes, how long would it be before your Nest data is used in a court of law, or in the planning of a no-knock raid, or in a warrantless fishing exercise to find people meeting a profile?

    Is sacrificing your privacy worth the benefit to society? For example, if I know exactly when everyone opens/closes a door and turns on/off lights, I could identify the point in time that individuals arrive home. Now if I know a murder occurred at 1:00am, and that most murders occur within 5 miles of the perpetrator's residence I could look through all of the arrivals at homes within 5 miles between 1:00am and 2:00am and have a nice little batch of suspects to contact. Never mind that Jimmy was at the bar and Nancy works 2nd shift, they're going to get picked up, taken down town, and interrogated by an officer skilled in getting them to admit to things.

    -Rick

    --
    "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
  23. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by nabsltd · · Score: 1

    I'm not typically a paranoid libertarian, but really, there are some things I'm 100% fine with handling on a closed network or with my own two hands.

    Yeah, the hardware they are talking about is interesting, and if I could set up a local server to control it, that might be useful. But handing over information and control to someplace out on the Internet sounds like about the worst idea ever.

  24. I wouldn't trust them... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    And for good reason. A coworker of mine bought one of these thermostats and last year around Christmas he was awakened in the middle of the night by his furnace blower running full blast. (Air conditioning mode)
      Nest had pushed out an update and caused his unit to crash. It took a week for them to get things straightened out again and required replacement of the thermostat.
    Over the holidays this year while he was out of town, they pushed out another update. Now his thermostat keeps going to sleep, dropping off the wifi and he can't access it from the internet anymore.
    Pissed doesn't even begin to describe his attitude towards Nest.

  25. Works with Nest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Funny, just this morning I pulled out my old "Plays For Sure" MP3 player.

  26. my lightbulbs are on the internet! by meeotch · · Score: 1

    My primary objection (and others' as well, judging by the comments on this story) is having all my network-aware toasters and lightbulbs and whatnot connecting to systems outside of my house.

    Does anyone know of an alternative with the same plug-it-in-and-it-just-works-ness, but with a more sensible scheme that lets me run without an internet connection? Or better still, with a single, secure internet-facing control, and everything else just talking in-house?

    Secondary objection is that iirc (maybe just early versions), the Nest had no "dumb mode", where I could just set the schedule myself, preferably with a motion-sensor override in case I wake up or arrive home early. Again, is there a plug-and-play alternative that does this?

    Ideal would be plug-and-play, but also scriptable via python or something in case I want to get fancy later on.

    I know there are gajillion home automation standards / systems, and that I can roll my own from stone knives and bearskins - but honestly, it's overwhelming trying to sort through all the options. So please skip the "google it" style replies, if you can.

    1. Re:my lightbulbs are on the internet! by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      Nest has a dumb mode like that, but no motion sensor override. (You can use the sensor instead of the schedule, with the Auto Away feature, but not in addition to.)

      That doesn't help your other objections, of course. I just wanted to clarify that point. :)

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    2. Re:my lightbulbs are on the internet! by jonhorvath · · Score: 1

      I've had good luck developing a python/nodejs web app using Open Z-Wave. The only connection to my system is a single SSL enabled web site hosted within my house. No data is stored outside of my house. I'm guessing my setup is more secure than a typical consumer grade home automation system.

      I wanted to learn the details of Z-Wave, so I built right on top of the Open Z-Wave library. There are open source frameworks that may be able to jump start your efforts.

    3. Re:my lightbulbs are on the internet! by garbut · · Score: 1

      I can confirm the bridge that comes with Philips Hue lights has a wired ethernet port (no wifi), an open restful api and works just fine without access to the Internet.

      --
      Oh, should I have sugar-coated that?
  27. Re:Still waiting for remote temperature sensors by greg1104 · · Score: 1

    It boggles my mind that we keep getting worthless updates for this product while still missing the one really useful feature they could add. Let me control home temperature based on my bedroom at night and the first floor the rest of the day, and now Nest will have made my life easier--and saved money/energy too. But, no, instead it's more crap of marginal utility.

  28. OpenTherm support? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Let them first fix the current Nest first. It even does not support OpenTherm, it only switches ON/OFF, just like those Honeywell's from the 90's.

    They could easily save 5% of your energy bill, provide a more comfortable home and cause less wear to the heating/cooling unit by implementing OpenTherm. I really don't understand why they don't do that, is it laziness, or just too technical to sell?

  29. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    He should call me. The government knows my number.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  30. The Connected House by userw014 · · Score: 1

    Ignore (for now) the possibilities of vendor-abandoned embedded software on your home network to cause mischief or frustration.

    Ignore (for now) someone spear-phishing you with your fridge or washing machine.

    Just think about all of the lovely data collected into one central place about a home address where people with lots of disposable income live.

  31. This will take ransomware to a whole new level by saccade.com · · Score: 1

    I'm sure the black hats will have a great time with this. "You want to get back into your house? Send us 15 bitcoin by midnight. And for another 10 bitcoin by the end of the week, we won't overload your furnace and burn your house down."

  32. Internet of Nope. by CrAlt · · Score: 1

    My "dumb" thermostat has a mechanical limit of 50-90F.
    All the way down and the pipes wont freeze and all the way up and it will just burn tons of fuel.. not my house down.

    What happens when this software internet facing thing crashes? Or gets hacked? If it locks up in the ON or OFF state that could be very costly.

    Internet locks? OK so if the internet is down, I'm locked out?

    Are these IoT hypers saying that its a GOOD idea to tie the basic operation of my house to comcast?

    --
    I have to return some videotapes...
  33. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    Governments have already proven themselves to be untrustworthy with the current level of tech. Why should we believe they wouldn't pry further into our homes than they do? Could it be because my life is uninteresting to them? The level of them gobbling up citizen data says otherwise.

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  34. What could possibly go .. by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    Ooh, look, this set of commands overloads the device and opens the doors!

    And, on reboot, you can hang it if you fire off this series of commands.

    Time for shopping!

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  35. Pod Bay Doors by PPH · · Score: 1

    "Open the pod bay doors, HAL"

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  36. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by kheldan · · Score: 1

    You're preaching to the choir here; I am agreeing with you.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
  37. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by rthille · · Score: 1

    You should do presentations in nicer places, so they don't want to get out of the travel :-)

    --
    Awesome furniture, accessories and cabinetry in Santa Rosa, CA: http://humanity-home.com/
  38. Re:Is the NSA/FBI/Local Police on that partnership by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    The next one is Kuching in Malaysia. I have no clue if it is nice or not.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.