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Archive.org Adds Close To 2,400 DOS Games
New submitter Bugamn writes Archive.org has added a new library of DOS games. The games are playable on the browser through EM-DOSBOX, a port of the DOS emulator. The games are provided without instructions, so some experimentation (or search for old manuals) might be necessary. The library does not mention any copyright concerns, although some of the games can be found for sale on sites such as Steam and GoG.
Tried to boot "bust-a-move" but i get 3 fps.
The fact that it boots and runs casually is impressive though.
Is goatse link.
Naww, I grew tired of Denial of Service attack games.
Table-ized A.I.
Stunts...
Enter the 3rd word on page X of the manual.
Couldn't get the mouse to the right hand side of the screen either.
Not sure how useful.
Yep, sounds about right for the best of games of the DOS era. There's a reason consoles absolutely dominated gaming through the 80s and 90s.
God dammit it's been a long time since I've been goated.
For those who have recovered from clicking your link, there's an actual short best-of:
https://archive.org/details/so...
They've got Master of Orion. Ok I'm just going to close up this story, walk away and pretend I didn't see it, before I go looking for Star Control and lose the next 4 months of my life to those games again.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
And not a single line in the crefits, source, github-page - nowhere. :/
I even have mails from "dreamlayers" from 2014-01-03, when he discovered my port, and three days later his commits in his repo start...
Would have been nice to be credited correctly...
Oops, the title was cut: "...from back in may 2013"
What the hell is DOS? Is that a console before the SNES?
Yep, sounds about right for the best of games of the DOS era. There's a reason consoles absolutely dominated gaming through the 80s and 90s.
Did they? At least around here in Germany, everybody in the 80s had a C64/Amiga (or maybe Atari ST) for gaming (because you could trade disks at school). Anybody with a console would have been pitied as the poor kid who cannot play the latest games. And from '93 onwards (when Doom arrived and LAN parties started) gaming changed forever, anyway. Maybe it was different in the US, don't know, Nintento consoles apparently were more popular there (I actually cannot remember any of my friends EVER owning a Nintendo console).
Archive.org has been turning into a warez-filled ARCHiVE.ORG since Jason Scott was hired. Seriously, check the 'games' in the "Books" section, there's modern (as in 2014) warez as well, downloaded thousands of times unscathed.
The Internet Archive has a laudable goal, but these days they seem to just be shooting for straight-up piracy, not only hosting copies of games that are still for sale, but making them playable right on their site... I mean, they've got Street Fighter II in their arcade section...
To be honest, I'm shocked nobody has sued them yet. They really don't have any fair use defense.
Nintendo was very popular when I was in grade school (near Washington DC). I can think of only one friend who did not have one (and they had a Sega Genesis). I still have mine, along with a spare I picked up, and 80-90 games for it. These days, I play the Super Nintendo more. I remember the schools having Atari computers, and Apple IIGS computers, but I can't remember any Commodores or Amigas. My dad used MS-DOS at work, so we had a progression of 8086-286-386-Pentium 75 MHz- Pentium II @ 450 MHz at home all running Microsoft OSes. I learned Linux after the Pentium 75 MHz had been demoted to scrap status, so I could play with it however I wanted. I remember running RedHat 5.1 (the old 5.1), and it taking many hours to rebuild the 2.0 kernel.
-- the computer doesn't want any beer, no matter how much you think it does. NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer.
The Internet Archive has a laudable goal, but these days they seem to just be shooting for straight-up piracy, not only hosting copies of games that are still for sale, but making them playable right on their site... I mean, they've got Street Fighter II in their arcade section...
To be honest, I'm shocked nobody has sued them yet. They really don't have any fair use defense.
See, this is how the Copyright Cartels want you to think. It's not piracy, and it is fair use. If a owner of any of the software has a problem, they can ask for it to be removed.
Be seeing you...
You're going to be absolutely shocked if you ever wander in to your local library!
Required reading for internet skeptics
NES was huge in the USA. Everyone I knew owned a NES which came with mario and duck hunt. Some of the games
I remember were metal gear, double dragon, zelda, ninja turtles, tetris, and mario 1, 2, and 3.
c64 never really caught on with the non-geek crowd where I lived, they went straight from the atari to the NES to the IBM PC.
At home everyone had a NES and all the schools had some variation of the apple II. NES and the super nes remained
popular until ibm overtook the apple II at school which happened about the same time that wolfenstein, doom, and the
internet came out. We started getting ibms and internet connectivity at school in the mid to late 90s.
Just a note that many games on archive.org cannot be downloaded. They can be played online only, through the uncredited javascript dosbox implementation. Not sure how that affects the legal status of these games.
A pile of just games, really? Not even manuals?
Archive.org seems like the kind of place that should have the resources to scan and host all kinds of serious material. There are many, many, "boring" vintage applications, application manuals, and other computer system manuals, that have not yet been archived.
Give me R:Base 4000, UCSD p-system for IBM PC, the Kaypro 2000 utility disk (with color utility), Digital Research DR Logo for IBM PC, or how how about the impossible to Google for 1980s telecommunications program from Microsoft called "Access". Given time I could list hundreds more that need archiving. And even when some messy partial copy surfaces, many of these are useless without their manuals.
Chances are archive.org are just up for the attention grab, and I do hope that in the long run perhaps it benefits all media that needs archiving.
I've been trying to remember the name of an old DOS "game" without success for some time now. Can anyone remember this game: It was a shareware DOS game the used only the native character set, mostly symbols like slashes and * and other pseudo-graphical characters. It used the screen as a large 2 dimensional workspace, and moved pieces around the screen based on other cells that served as twirling propellers, moving panels and other simple character animations. Some of the "maps" were amazingly complex for such a simple basic concept. I don't really remember enough about it to find it with a search (I have tried), but I'm hoping this rather poor description might trigger something in someone else's memory.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
It is in no way fair use. Even if the four things considered when determining whether or not fair use have vague boundaries, they are quite clear what things are considered, and "owner not noticing" is not one of them. Recognizing what the law and precedent actually says isn't caving into big business interests, it is a necessary step in actually know what needs to be changed.
Goatse is the reason consoles dominated gaming in the 80s and 90s?
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
It doesn't matter if it's fair use or not.
It's historical preservation.
"Arguing the law" here is silly. As a crime, NO ONE cares. As a tort, no one seems to be willing to step forward. Until they do, you can't say there are any damages. Even then, what would those damages even be?
There is simply no basis for "pretentious moral outrage".
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Every book in the library was printed with the permission of the copyright owner. That is the proper and legal way to do things.
The Internet Archive has some special DMCA exception granted a decade ago for the Wayback Machine, and some have decided to really pervert this exception up in the name of "cultural preservation".
Goatse is by far the best DOS game ever released. PC games sucked until DirectX.
You jest, but the differences in paradigm between the two platforms merit a quick refresher.
MS-DOS is an operating system for IBM-compatible personal computers that was popular before Windows 95. In gaming terms, it really didn't provide any services beyond a file system (hence the name Disk Operating System), and games for it were coded to access the VGA (graphics), Sound Blaster, keyboard, and joystick hardware directly, bypassing DOS and even BIOS. Various versions of MS-DOS were popular from 1982 through 1995, after which games started to be published for Windows. (Windows 95, 98, and Me used parts of MS-DOS as an underlying layer, but games for that were coded to the Windows 95 DirectX API.) The free software community has developed functional clone of MS-DOS called FreeDOS, much as GNU/Linux is a clone of the UNIX system. It has also developed a partial PC emulator called DOSBox that contains a stripped down clone of MS-DOS. The emulator is not quite cycle-accurate, but because of variance among manufacturers' PCs, PC games tended not to demand cycle accuracy.
Because of fundamental differences in input and graphics capabilities between MS-DOS PCs and the Super NES, games for the two tended to be in different genres. MS-DOS games drew their graphics in software to the VGA's frame buffer, while Super NES games were more likely to rely on the S-PPU's built-in scrollable tile planes and sprite capability. (About a dozen Super NES games contained a faster CPU called Super FX that made software-rendered 3D halfway practical.) With the vast difference in paradigms you can't usefully say one is "before" the other in the sense that the Super NES is "after" the NES and "before" the Nintendo 64.
MS-DOS also had something called "shareware", an early version of what people now call "IAPs". Individuals or small teams would create a game or other application and distribute a feature-limited free version through bulletin board systems and user group-hotsed copy parties. People who wanted the whole thing could mail-order a set of floppies with the complete version. This was impractical on the Super NES, with its more expensive cartridge media and Checking Integrated Circuit (CIC).
Fair use is not the only limit on the scope of U.S. copyright. Section 108 describes exceptions for nonprofit libraries to make copies for patrons.
17 U.S.C. 107
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 17 U.S.C. 106 and 17 U.S.C. 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include:
the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
the nature of the copyrighted work;
the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.
All of these must be taken into consideration, and very rarely does an entire copy of a work clear the third one. Maybe you meant to suggest this was protected under the DMCA, which allows a website to be immune from things posted by users as long as they don't notice and take things down when asked to... but certainly is not fair use. And don't try arguing it is for scholarship or research, as that only flies when you are actually doing something much more specific and have actual commentary on the portions of work you are copying.
You could whine about it being some deceptive trick of "Copyright Cartels," or you could accept the reality way things are and see how bad it actually is, so as to have some clue when it comes to actually speaking about how things should change.
There is simply no basis for "pretentious moral outrage".
Right...
"Arguing the law" here is silly. As a crime, NO ONE cares.
No, it should be the exact opposite. Pretending that the law happens to agree with one's lack of moral concern is not how one should react to this, but isntead realizing how stupid the law is that it still says it is illegal.
The Nintendo console was very popular in the US, but it is undeniable that the C64 was a hugely successful machine. The C64 also competed more directly with earlier consoles like the Atari 2600, Colecovision, etc. The Atari 2600 was very popular because it was extremely easy to setup, plug it into a TV and that's it.
I also did a lot of Amiga and Atari ST gaming as those are the machines my Dad was into and got. I didn't have a lot of people around me with similar computers to trade games with. I believe both of those machines were much more popular in Europe while the PC compatible clones were starting to take over the US market at the end of the C64's life.
This was a whodunit that ran from a 5.25-inch floppy. It may or may not have been DOS-based. I ruined my copy and never got to finish playing it. Any help?
Wow, the laws on your planet seem interesting.
Why, are libraries making copies of entire books and giving them away? Last I checked all the books they had were legally purchased with a valid copyright page and could only be lent to one person at a time.
I think I love you.
to see classics downgraded to a fucking browser game.
Get native dosbox, and drag an old CRT monitor out of the attic to play the games on. Instead of this disrespectful bullshit.
They have a DMCA exception for this which they asked the Librarian of Congress for.
for a second I thought I read DDOS. Never heard of DOS before. will have to read about it.
And you're clearly going to be shocked if you ever learn how a library actually works.
Hint: the books (and CDs, and DVDs, and games) on the shelves are legally purchased copies, and are lent to a single patron at a time. They are not printouts of torrented epubs.
I love the Internet Archive but I seriously have no idea what they think they're doing here.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Get all those Gamespot TV/Extended Play episodes out of the ZDTV/TechTV vault.
While you're at it, The Screensavers too. Better history to preserve than half-assed dos game rips
The Nintendo console was very popular in the US, but it is undeniable that the C64 was a hugely successful machine. The C64 also competed more directly with earlier consoles like the Atari 2600, Colecovision, etc. The Atari 2600 was very popular because it was extremely easy to setup, plug it into a TV and that's it.
I also did a lot of Amiga and Atari ST gaming as those are the machines my Dad was into and got. I didn't have a lot of people around me with similar computers to trade games with. I believe both of those machines were much more popular in Europe while the PC compatible clones were starting to take over the US market at the end of the C64's life.
Yes, it might be that the whole "gamers bought C64/Amiga, Atari XL/ST and ZX Spectrum" thing was mainly european. I just looked at the Wikipedia article for the NES, and it says about the sales numbers "Worldwide: 61.91 million, Japan: 19.35 million, Americas: 34.00 million, Other: 8.56 million". So the whole of the world, except Japan and the US, bought only 1/4 of the number of consoles the US bought. Like I said - I do not know anybody among my friends/relatives who bought a Nintendo console. Around here in Germany, the usual transition was C64/... to Amiga/ST/... to PC and back in the 80s/90s, trading disks on the schoolyard was huge.
This is Jason Scott. If you e-mail at at jscott@archive.org, I'll be glad to sort it out.
So it's legal because copying the book takes longer than copying the data?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A quite fitting response, considering how rights holders have lobbied to pervert copyright in the name of profit.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
No, its legal because the library doesn't do the copying, the publisher & printer does that with permission. Speed has nothing to do with it, while who does the copying does.
Well, technically when someone accesses it, it's also not the server that makes a copy, it's the client.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The exception to the DMCA doesn't have to do with perverting copyrights directly, but allows them to bypass the access control that is illegal to otherwise bypass under the DMCA. They still have to figure out how to make it legal to copy things.
Where on Earth did you get the idea that it's legal to copy the book? Don't the libraries near you have the posters up near the photocopiers specifically telling you you're only allowed to copy short sections under fair use?
Sorry but your port is "abandonware" and is now in the public domain.
No. Mostly because the catastrophic US copyright law does not apply in Europe.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Was the same in Norway. Everyone had a C64 and/or an A500 and most kids had som i86 as well. The kids with the 8-bit nintendos and the A2600s were the "poor" kids.
There's a reason SCUMM games were so popular.
It's a shame they don't have the first ever color game for the PC: Sierra Online's "King's Quest" or any of the other Sierra Online games.
Or the laws in his country. In mine, this would be entirely legal. In fact *any* work copied prior to July 1st. 2006 is still legal to copy and any piece of software older than 15 years old will published after that date will be legal to copy beginning in 2021.
International agreements aside, the world does not run exclusively on US law, as shocking news as this is to US citizens.
so they are fucked. :)
I found a couple of old games I had been looking for. They are streaming-only, but at least I know the names, publishers, and dates of publication.
Unfortunately, we all know how this will go: People like me find the games we were looking for, and buy them used. The used price goes way up and the lawyers notice, which causes many DCMA notices and eBay takedowns of auctions for used software. Then the games disappear into oblivion again.
Copyright law needs to include the concept of abandoned property. If someone is not selling, supporting, and updating software...then it is abandoned and should no longer be their property.
Nice! The archive.org's selections are somewhat odd though. :) There's a bunch of text adventures, four Commander Keen games, and couple of other random games. I don't know how that is a well-rounded showcase of DOS games, it seems more like someone's subjective favorites.
+1 Informative
Finally, 'Paragon' by Id Software (of 'Doom' fame). It's a blend of action and puzzle elements that I've missed since my 5.25 inch floppy died about 20 years ago. I checked the big archives a few years ago and it wasn't there.
Archive.org doesn't offer the DOS binary; this game must be played online. After playing a few levels I'll probably find the chunky graphics and simple sound-effects to be very forgettable. Ahh; nostalgia ain't what it used to be.
How about first checking if you are allowed to publish the game like this before actually doing it?
What makes them different from any other internetuser?
I think they think that by not allowing you to download the binary they're in the clear. Unfortunately you _are_ downloading it, to the emulator running in your web-browser.
There was a conference down here in Australia on game preservation last year and one of the most discussed subjects was precisely this -- and the conclusion was simply that what archive.org is doing in this context can't be considered as anything other than illegal.
Now whether or not anyone complains or not is something for IA to deal with, but let's not have any confusion that using the site to play games is in no way any more legal than just finding a torrent or an 'abandonware' site and downloading them.
I fairly sure it's their entire library, was getting updates from the Usenet but god was that ever slow going.
MAME_0.149_CHDs_A-B
MAME_0.149_CHDs_C
MAME_0.149_CHDs_D-G
MAME_0.149_CHDs_H-N
MAME_0.149_CHDs_P-S
MAME_0.149_CHDs_U-Z
MAME_0.149_EXTRAs
MAME_0.149_ROMs
These are game disk images http://fileinfo.com/extension/...
I added up the files (torrents) and I've got 308 Gigs worth of games, most of which I'll pry never load let alone play.
If your not aware the program MAME will load the ROMs of the old arcade games, so you can play your old favs. MAME has been ported to most tablets and cell phones, not that they all work that well. "Moon Patrol" is a great cell phone game for me as there are only 4 keys that you use, fairly fun to play and it's great bathroom throne material.
"MAME can currently emulate several thousand different classic arcade video games from the late 1970s through the modern era."
http://mamedev.org/
Not to mention there isn't any "grey" area legally (not that there ever really was) as many of the games listed are for sale on GOG and Steam. I've personally tried talking to some of the bunches that hold the rights to the old shareware titles too and they do NOT let anybody host their old stuff, in fact most want a fricking mint just to let you put up the original limited CD shareware, much less entire games like what they are doing.
Is there ANY way the community can fork off the Wayback Machine? Because AFAIK that is the only source for many web pages lost to time and it would truly be a crime to lose them forever because this yo-yo has decided to turn Internet Archive into another warez site.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
I seriously have no idea what they think they're doing here.
Historical preservation would be my guess. But what's the point of preserving history if it's completely hidden for all time? One could arguew that it's not really been preserved at all in that case.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Indeed, there was a class divide here, but it did not have so much to do with the cost of the systems. The poorer kids lived in apartment housing, which was cheaper, but only apartments had cable TV (private homes would need a satellite dish, which was both expensive and seen as vulgar/ugly). So they got a lot more cultural influence from the US. It wasn't just consoles vs. computers, it also was Transformers vs. Colargol, or Superman vs. Pellefant.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
We would give you credit but you posted anonymously...
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
How are you "preserving" games which are currently for sale by offering them for free? I don't see how you can argue that is anything but straight up piracy. hell we aren't even talking about some one off site that the masses have never heard of selling old copies, we are talking the latest fully patched versions being sold worldwide on GOG!
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
They are curating a collection, like a museum does. There are museums dedicated to old computers and old games consoles, which allow visitors to view and even use old software that is still under copyright. They are tolerated and while I don't know the exact legal situation in the US, judging the the policy of Archive.org of not collecting games that are still for sale or where removal has been requested I'd imagine that is representative of it.
As for games that seem current like Street Fighter 2, it's the DOS version specifically which I seem to recall sucked pretty badly. I imagine if it was the arcade ROM then Capcom might care, but no-one will consider this version running in a browser based emulator and played with the keyboard to be a reasonable substitute.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
At least around here in Germany, everybody in the 80s had a C64/Amiga (or maybe Atari ST) for gaming (because you could trade disks at school)
Hey man, don't copy that floppy!
I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
Not to mention the consoles had better graphics than the C64 and Amiga systems. Sure, computers eventually won out through brute force, but for a very long time the consoles held a significant lead.
And this is from a nerdy kid that had both. And my favorite game was always Caveman Ugh-lympics on the C64.
International agreements aside, the world does not run exclusively on US law, as shocking news as this is to US citizens.
And as shocking news to citizens of other countries apparently, but US citizens and US organizations in the news are still subject to US laws...
US law explicitly allows for owners of a program to make copies of it as necessary to allow it to run, typically so that it is not a copyright violation everytime you computer loads a program from the harddrive. The issue then is does it count as archive.org making the copy to the client emulator to allow it to run, or is the end user doing that copying.
I have mixed feelings about this. I have a former shareware game that I've made freeware years ago and occasionally update. It's available from our web site for download.
I would have preferred if Jason had asked me first before uploading it to archive.org. As it stands, while I like the idea, I really don't like someone assuming that I'm okay with it and imposing "Opt-Out" on me if I'm not.
I'm going to mull it over. If I decide to have it remove it, I may offer my own web player (I toyed a while back with JPC.
UK and commonwealth countries have fair dealing exceptions to copyright, although those tend to be narrower exceptions than fair use under US laws. Other countries without those exceptions are the ones that end up being more "catastrophic" in this sense, with extremely narrow exceptions to the law to match the Berne convention. In the EU, for example, an author of a computer program retains the right to have control over the right to copy software, including copies necessary to make the program run (although it is assumed that such copies are allowed unless otherwise stated), whereas in the US it is allowed to make copies of software as necessary to run (e.g. copy from hard drive into working memory).
"Is there ANY way the community can fork off the Wayback Machine? Because AFAIK that is the only source for many web pages lost to time and it would truly be a crime to lose them forever because this yo-yo has decided to turn Internet Archive into another warez site."
It's got a couple of complicated twists I don't yet understand though.
Elsewhere we see stories that skies alive if someone torrents a Justin Bieber song, say a homeowner's sister in Kansas or something, they wind up with a multi thousand dollar lawsuit threat and a settlement offer of ten grand.
And this isn't War3z0074evar.mobi either.
It's Internet Archive. And it's not a faux-hidden little secret section you need a handshake and a passphase to get into. It's x thousand chunks of stuff at a time, with thundering Slashdot-and-media articles to proclaim it around the world.
One of the disturbing aspects of copyright law is how long rights holders can sit around before pulling a trigger to enforce something. (Where, isn't Trademark something you have to defend 'promptly' or lose?) So, it's months later since that last round with the other old games ... So 7000 works at that $300,000 clip ... why isn't one of those copyright troll jerk companies drooling at a billion dollar pot of gold?
To me that's the "hypocrisy" of copyright enforcement.
So it's like some strange card game where Internet Archive is holding a pair of aces in the open, and the other two we don't see, and they're going all in and we can't rationally figure out why someone isn't calling their bluff.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
They are allowed to make duplicates of such things as videos, etc.
They're even allowed to change formats (ie. they can convert a VHS to DVD, or DVD to some other form of digital media) without regard for copyright law.
They're given special exemptions to various copyright ideas that would actually possibly get you or me sued.
I know that some of them actually to 'virtual' libraries where you can check out books and get an eBook version of it, but, I don't know the exact details of how they keep up with that kind of thing (but I've been told that the formats used are trivial for one to make a copy of if they so desired).
It is a fair (and arguably legal) use. It is not Fair Use (as defined under the Fair Use clauses of the Copyright Act).
Learn to love Alaska
And I've never seen a library without a copy machine. I'm sure they existed, before copy machines were created, but since the '70s, I've not seen one.
Learn to love Alaska
Last I checked, the libraries have started carrying e-books and let you "check out" e-books, which is a copy of an entire book that's "given away".
Learn to love Alaska
No. I've seen copiers in every library I've ever been to, but I've never seen a copyright warning around them.
Learn to love Alaska
This is Jason Scott. If you e-mail at at jscott@archive.org, I'll be glad to sort it out.
Hi Jason! Thank you for your offer to sort things out, I just sent you an email!
We would give you credit but you posted anonymously...
Yep sorry, somehow I lost my original slashdot credentials and just posted as AC...
Here's a short blog-post explaining the situation.
Oooh, Colargol! Someone should something something Colargol in SpaceX's dragon :)
A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
I don't if any of these games are in violation of copyright laws but I do know that just because it is for sale does not mean that it is a violation. You can get e-books for works out of copyright for authors such as Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and W. Shakespeare from archive.org and Project Gutenburg but it doesn't stop books stores from selling them anyways.
I imagine that the copyright laws governing these games are subject to where the foundation for archive.org is established. So if they established the foundation in a country that doesn't have draconian copyright laws like the US, but instead where it is something reasonable like 20 years then I believe that all of these games would be clear.
Well, since in all likelihood, neither The Internet Archive or the user own the game, that's kind of a moot point.
The law explicitly removes liability from libraries for allowing patrons to make copies of work, but also states then it is up to the patron to make sure they have legal right to make that copy, and the patron is liable if they don't, e.g, if their copy fails to be fair use.
The Internet Archive is based in the US. Every single game that they're pirating is still under copyright in the US.
except it is STILL fucked up:
our library's 'e-books' are 'limited' to X number of 'copies', and they will only 'check out' that many at a time...
why ?
gee, i'm guessing copyright maximalists at work, destroying culture one copyright at a time...
The problem with allowing anonymous cowards is its harder to simply mark you as a permanent troll.
The MPAA sucks...and we all hate you.
The Sound Blaster was AdLib compatible, so there was no reason to ask for both.
I think the AdLib option would try to push sound effects through the AdLib chip, stealing channels from music if necessary, rather than mixing them into the SB's digital output.
it wasn't until Win 3.0 where you saw thing written for Windows
And in the Windows 3.x days, action games with any sort of scrolling or 3D graphics were still made for DOS because Windows was designed for enhanced-definition 640x480 modes instead of the low-definition mode 13h (320x200) and mode X (320x240) that action games used to reduce how many pixels they have to push around.
There is no requirement for libraries to post such, at least in federal law. But a lot of them do remind patrons that they are liable for copyright violations using the copier (not that there is much chance of being caught for people making private use of copies). I've been to public libraries in half a dozen different states, and various college and university libraries too, and almost all of them will post a warning in some way. Sometimes it is a large framed sign, other times it is a single page taped to the wall that blends in with a bunch of other stuff posted on the wall, to a small index card sized note taped to the machine. University libraries are much closer to universal, because it is easier in some ways to run into possible violations if you copy something for students of a class or are there copying journal articles (even though there are some educational exceptions, and a lot of journals allow photocopies for personal use of whole articles), whereas you are not going to have many people trying to copy a whole book at a public library.
why isn't one of those copyright troll jerk companies drooling at a billion dollar pot of gold?
Because the Internet Archive doesn't have a billion dollars? Additionally parts of US copyright law allow libraries and archives to make copies of works under certain conditions, and allow patrons to make copies without liability to the library (the patrons are still responsible for the case they didn't have the right to make the copy they did). Also, the law allows consideration of whether a library or archive had reason to think it was allowed to make a copy when determining statutory damages. This all means it is not clear if you can even win a case against the Archive, and if you could, how much money do they have for you to take? You might end up with just an injunction for them to take stuff down, but they will already do that without a court case.
I've got a Virtualbox setup with MS DOS and a stack of 2GB virtual drives packed chock full of full version games and apps, I've had to put a clock limiter on it because watching USS Ticonderoga scroll through at $stupid fps makes me dizzy.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Freetards taking source without crediting? I'm flabbergasted!
Anyways I thought you people did this in the name of FWEEDOM and not for glory?
I am dreamlayers
I first used this: https://git.cryptopath.org/cer...
Only one important commit is there: https://git.cryptopath.org/cer...
That code compiled but did not work. I made changes and got a DOS program to run. Then I decided to start with a git repository which has all the DOSBox history and re-do things in a cleaner way. These two em-dosbox-0.74 commits on Jan 5, 2014 are based on the cerial/dosbox commit mentioned earlier:
Compile error fixes f6e0953
Disable SDL CD and CD image support on Emscripten. 59e11b1
For example, take a look at how CD function bodies were commented out and replaced with "return false" in the cerial commit. I used a different method, removing most CD functions and using "#ifdef EMSCRIPTEN".
I can safely say I did most of the porting work overall, but Ismail deserves some credit. I am sorry about not saying anything in the commit messages. Don't forget to credit the DOSBox developers. The porting work is tiny compared to the overall effort invested in DOSBox.
I agree... the inclusion of the SpellCaster games, for instance, is somewhat odd -- as is leaving out some of the classics that shaped how future game design went, and shaped many common catch phrases in use today.
As pointed out elsewhere, section 108 of US Copyright law allows libraries and archives to make archival copies of copyrighted work, and additional allowances for media that is obsolete or subject to damage. This allows libraries to some degree to get copies of things they didn't have permission to copy, and share it with the public. Section 117 is what allows owners of a copy (not copyright holders) to make copies for the purpose of running it. As long as the copies made under section 108 are considered owned by the library, then they are allowed to copy as needed to make it run (with no stated limits on how many concurrent running copies).
Did you reply to the wrong comment, or are you just referring to yourself as a troll? Otherwise, your dislike of the MPAA implies agreeing with the parent that says the law currently is stupid, and that there should be no moral issue with making copies of works for preservation. Or are you one of those types that gets butthurt when someone points out what copyright law actually says, and you need protect your psyche by assuming such people must all be *AA shills and can't possibly be people interest in fixing crappy laws?
It doesn't grant libraries permission to make unlimited numbers of copies and then distribute them for free to the public. It's also highly questionable as to if The Internet Archive actually own copies of any of the works in question.
And maybe they do own copies of these MS-DOS games, or at least a few of them. What of their arcade collection? Do they really own arcade cabinets or boards for each of those? Because those arcade games were certainly never sold as software alone digitally distributed...
What's to stop somebody from declaring themselves a library or archive and then streaming copies of all television shows and movies online to anyone in the world? How is that different than what The Internet Archive is doing with games? Many of the games that they're offering up for download are still available for purchase (with support for running on modern systems as appropriate) from their copyright holders, so making any claims that they're obsolete or subject to damage is questionable.
It's because by law, you can not make more copies than the copyright holder allows. If they library lends out ten copies at a time then they need to buy ten copies! Otherwise you could have one library buy one copy and then lend it to the entire world; congrats the author spent a couple years writing the book and got only $20 for it.
It doesn't grant libraries permission to make unlimited numbers of copies and then distribute them for free to the public.
Actually, in some cases it does, for example they are allowed to distribute (unlimited copies) or works in the last 20 years of a copyright if not being sold. That isn't relevant here though. It does allow a copy to be made for any non-commercial reason, and actually requires that those be made available to the public (or alternatively researchers no associated with the library). They only need one copy in this sense, assuming the other section allowing copies without limits for the purpose of running a program can then apply to that one copy, since they are not giving a copy that can be kept by the user (without some effort at least). There are additional provisions that do allow for distribution of that copy, and to then make further copies, provided the library has no reason to believe it is engaging in "concerted reproduction or distribution of multiple copies," but that doesn't seem as useful.
How is that different than what The Internet Archive is doing with games?
The law allow copies to be made for the purpose of running a program is specific to computer software, and does not apply to streaming video or audio. Additionally, the laws allowing for libraries to make copies of work also forbid some of the subsections from being applied to video and audio.
so making any claims that they're obsolete or subject to damage is questionable.
If they are copies of the versions from the original floppy disks, then they can be argued to be different works than the ones created on different media (i.e. for download), especially if the originals have a mechanism checking for the original media (which can be bypassed with an on going DMCA expection).
And I'm not trying to argue that they have a solid legal defence, but only that there is reason to think they might be able to get away with it. Additionally, even if it is found to be not legally valid, if they reasonably thought it might be valid, then a court can remit statutory damages (something that applies explicitly to libraries and archives).
From section 108 of chapter 17:
(d) The rights of reproduction and distribution under this section apply to a copy, made from the collection of a library or archives where the user makes his or her request or from that of another library or archives, of no more than one article or other contribution to a copyrighted collection or periodical issue, or to a copy or phonorecord of a small part of any other copyrighted work, if—
(2) the library or archives displays prominently, at the place where orders are accepted, and includes on its order form, a warning of copyright in accordance with requirements that the Register of Copyrights shall prescribe by regulation.
The library needs to post copyright warnings where a user can request or make copies if they want the section to apply, which without could mean they are liable for copyright violations made with their equipment and copies of works.
rewriting application code so it'll run in a browser (a form of porting) is not historical preservation. I can't run this shit in an MS-DOS VM for the simple reason that it's rewritten to run in a Java sandbox. That is of no use to me. Nor should it be any use to anyone else with any sort of interest in preserving anything. A preserved application originally written for MS-DOS is one that I should be able to dump into my DOS VM and just fucking run it without having to do anything extraordinary to it like rewrite the code or sacrifice a fucking goat.
Here are some games & apps I have in my VM that I've not had to do ANYTHING to beyond simply dropping the game folder onto a virtual partition so the VM can actually read it:
Day Of The Tentacle
The Need For Speed
Albion
Prisoner Of Ice
Hexen: Beyond Heretic
System Shock (CD Version, CD image is automatically loaded when you invoke the app)
Archipelagos
Warcraft
Dungeons Of The Unforgiven
Zzt
Terminal Velocity
Grand Theft Auto
FractINT
Lemmings
Shooting Gallery
Jason Jupiter
Moraff's World
Su-27 Flanker
Command & Conquer
7th Guest (with CD enhancements, loads the same way as System Shock)
USS Ticonderoga (just the enhanced demo, but still, 180MB for something that was at the time the biggest game on the planet in terms of the size of the codebase...)
Magic Carpet (CD enhanced again)
Up to now I have 23 2GB partitions packed to the brim with DOS software lifted either from my archival CDs or from floppies that still worked or pulled off the dozen or so DOS hard drives I still have. Still crawling through old software collections I've had for nigh on 25 years, keeping what works and dropping those titles onto the VM, and writing them into the menu.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
every library I've ever been in prohibits you from making a copy of an entire book using their copying facilities.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
That appears to only apply if the library makes the copies, and not when the user makes the copies. That's more archival than casual community library related.
Learn to love Alaska
(f) Nothing in this section—
(1) shall be construed to impose liability for copyright infringement upon a library or archives or its employees for the unsupervised use of reproducing equipment located on its premises: Provided, That such equipment displays a notice that the making of a copy may be subject to the copyright law;
People keep implying this is somehow illegal, but in reality they have a DCMA exemption: http://archive.org/about/dmca.... .
Well, technically speaking the server makes the copy and transfers it to the client. Although the client initiates it, so you could say it actually still is the client who causes the copy.
The archive is a lot older:
https://archive.org/details/DO...
This is Jason Scott. If you e-mail at at jscott@archive.org, I'll be glad to sort it out.
Don't hold your breath. Jason has used much material from other works without attribution many times. I'm astonished eXo and MobyGames are credited, frankly.
Excellent! It took me straight to The Black Hole game. Thanks!
Trolling is a art,