AirAsia QZ8501 Black Box Found

jones_supa writes Indonesia's Directorate General of Marine Transport has confirmed that the black box of AirAsia QZ8501 has been found, Indonesian authorities said in a press release. The breakthrough comes exactly two weeks after the flight from Surabaya to Singapore went down with 162 people on board. In the press release, marine transport coordinator Tonny Budiono said that the credit goes to navy divers from Indonesia navy ship KN Jadayat, who found the black box at a depth of 30 to 32 meters. The black box is currently wedged between pieces of wreckage making it difficult for divers to retrieve, and due to time constraints, the actual retrieval will take place on Monday morning.

Comments

"The" black box ?

[rossdee]

I thought there were 2 of them

Flight Data recorder (records all the instrument readings and control inputs from the pilot)
Cockpit Voice recorder (rocords the voices of the pilot and copilot saying "shit"

Generally the first one is the most important source of information.

Re:"The" black box ?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bot FDR and CVR record the same data on an A320. They are redundant units. One is in the tail, one is in the middle of the aircraft. If one is found, they have everything they need to investigate.

Re:"The" black box ?

[Richard_at_work]

The FDR usually gives the "how", the CVR typically fills in the "why".

The FDR gave us a Controlled Flight Into Terrain in the AF447 crash, the CVR told us the crew were completely confused as to what was going on and didn't perform the correct procedures.

The CVR also records other sounds in the cockpit, and has been used many times to determine if certain actions were performed, identifying if the failure was mechanical or human error - for example, in one case a plane that overrun the runway on landing in bad weather because the pilots failed to arm the spoilers, which was determined through the lack of arming sound on the CVR.

Re:"The" black box ?

[Anonymous Coward]

AF447 was not controlled flight, it was falling like a brick with a slight nose up pitch. They had barely any airspeed but the idiot with his hand on the sidestick thought they had too much, to quote him "crazy speed".

I might add another example of the CVR providing data through registered sounds: Air Florida 90. They didn't have takeoff thrust but thought they did because the engine pressure ratio indicators were frozen and showed a higher value than reality. The investigators compared the engine sound from an identical aircraft with that heard on the CVR. I also recall from watching Air Crash Investigation that in an explosion with practically no conversation recorded after the event, there can be an indication on the tape just before it ends due to the microphone having a noise filter which registers that some sound is coming.

Re:"The" black box ?

[Richard_at_work]

AF447 was controlled flight, the pilots were in complete control for the entire time, there was no departure from pilot command at any time during the flight. There was no mechanical failure which caused the aircraft from being uncontrollable.

That makes it CFIT within the meaning defined by accident investigators. The aerodynamic stall was created by the pilot-flying action, and could have corrected the issue at any point, but did not. The aircraft was not in a situation where command input would not have been able to control the aircraft, so definitely a CFIT.

Re:"The" black box ?

[Richard_at_work]

You really need to go read various accident reports and accident investigation guidelines and stop relying on Wikipedia just like you say, because it is so seriously poor at shit like this its unbelievable.

I also never said "a perfectly flyable aircraft crashing" is always CFIT, but it is when the pilots fly the aircraft into the ground for whatever reason - which is precisely what happened with AF447. The crew never believed they were not in control, they just ignored a lot of the data they were seeing because they thought it was wrong and that they knew better. And thus the aircraft hit the ground because of the actions of the pilots and not because of any other reason.

Re:"The" black box ?

[RubberDogBone]

Wish I had mod points, but then I would not get to say Bravo for nailing it.

AF447 was clearly CFIT. Nothing stopped the crew from preventing the crash except their own belief that they knew better than the systems they relied upon basically ALL the other time they were flying. But once, over the ocean and in a storm, they knew better.

I never understand how drivers flying heavys suddenly think they can do the seat-of-the-pants thing like they're flying a barnstormer, much less at the very moment when all their skill needs to come to play. But it happens. AF447 was not the first time raw ego flew into terrain and it won't be the last, unfortunately.

This Air Asia plane probably broke up in weather from the sound of the wreckage. Why it didn't do more to evade the weather is going to a good question. Boxes will tell the story.

Re:Disgusting

[Anonymous Coward]

It helps investigators find out what led to the crash. That information can be used to prevent similar crashes in the future.

Re:Disgusting

[Paul Carver]

I can't tell what you're advocating, can you clarify? Are you making the case that planes shouldn't have black boxes?
Or are you advocating that they shouldn't have insurance?

Re:Disgusting

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, that is true. But you will not take away the justification to create black boxes in the first place, which is insurance, plain and simple.

You can sugar coat a pile of dogshit all you want. At the end of the day, it's still a pile of dogshit that smells, much like the truths that are hard to swallow.

You have NO idea what you are talking about. Insurance is
a secondary issue compared to preventing similar incidents
in the future. The entire history of aviation is filled with accidents
and incidents, many of which occurred when the current tort system
and all those who profit from it were not in existence.

Safety was the reason flight data recorders were created, PERIOD.

By the way, I work for NTSB. I do know what I am talking about, I have
worked in the field for over 20 years. What exactly are YOUR
qualifications, other than that you own a device which allows you to post
on Slashdot ?

/

Re:pings

[ColdWetDog]

If the box is half buried in the mud and debris, you may not hear the ping at all or it may be very attenuated. It's just an audio signal, not magic.

Re:pings

[Richard_at_work]

Airbus doesn't sell aircraft fitted with data recorders which dont have the standard locator beacons.

Re:Disgusting

[khallow]

But you will not take away the justification to create black boxes in the first place, which is insurance, plain and simple.

Even if this were true, what makes it a "pile of dogshit that smells". Insurance does serve a very useful role in our society.

Re:Disgusting

[Deadstick]

Your insurance company really fucked you, didn't they?

Re:Disgusting

[supernova87a]

We should count this fact as one of the greatest gifts that modern aviation, science, and policy has given us. The idea that those who died can save others in the future by figuring out what went wrong -- and that their loss is not squandered without doing something about it.

It fights the normal state of being helpless and clueless, and helps us advance. Screw those who say, "oh, this accident was God's will." No, it was not just some random/unknowable event -- it's something that we can fix and make sure it doesn't happen in the future.

Re:Disgusting

[khallow]

Insurance externalizes internalities.

No, it doesn't. There are ways to turn costs or sudden losses into externalities via publicly provided or covered insurance, but that's not an consequence of all insurance.

It seems necessary because its existence over many decades has fucked up society enough to make it that way.

It's been no easier in the past to deal with sudden catastrophes than it is now.