Slashdot Mirror
AirAsia QZ8501 Black Box Found
jones_supa writes Indonesia's Directorate General of Marine Transport has confirmed that the black box of AirAsia QZ8501 has been found, Indonesian authorities said in a press release. The breakthrough comes exactly two weeks after the flight from Surabaya to Singapore went down with 162 people on board. In the press release, marine transport coordinator Tonny Budiono said that the credit goes to navy divers from Indonesia navy ship KN Jadayat, who found the black box at a depth of 30 to 32 meters. The black box is currently wedged between pieces of wreckage making it difficult for divers to retrieve, and due to time constraints, the actual retrieval will take place on Monday morning.
I thought there were 2 of them
Flight Data recorder (records all the instrument readings and control inputs from the pilot)
Cockpit Voice recorder (rocords the voices of the pilot and copilot saying "shit"
Generally the first one is the most important source of information.
It helps investigators find out what led to the crash. That information can be used to prevent similar crashes in the future.
Related Reddit conversation ....
http://www.reddit.com/r/news/c...
That way it'll never get destroyed!
I can't tell what you're advocating, can you clarify? Are you making the case that planes shouldn't have black boxes?
Or are you advocating that they shouldn't have insurance?
That's not disgusting. The reason I can go to the mall and buy a huge flat screen TV isn't that somebody thought I deserve to do that or wanted to make the world a better place by manufacturing flat screens. It's that someone thought that making TVs seemed like a good way to get filthy fucking rich. If anything it's fascinating that a complex system like our society can be built on such simple motivations (profit) and rules (liability). It's called emergent behavior. You know, like swarms are not centrally governed but instead result from a few simple local rules. The swarm isn't encoded anywhere, it emerges from the behavior of its participants.
Yes, that is true. But you will not take away the justification to create black boxes in the first place, which is insurance, plain and simple.
You can sugar coat a pile of dogshit all you want. At the end of the day, it's still a pile of dogshit that smells, much like the truths that are hard to swallow.
You have NO idea what you are talking about. Insurance is
a secondary issue compared to preventing similar incidents
in the future. The entire history of aviation is filled with accidents
and incidents, many of which occurred when the current tort system
and all those who profit from it were not in existence.
Safety was the reason flight data recorders were created, PERIOD.
By the way, I work for NTSB. I do know what I am talking about, I have
worked in the field for over 20 years. What exactly are YOUR
qualifications, other than that you own a device which allows you to post
on Slashdot ?
/
If the box is half buried in the mud and debris, you may not hear the ping at all or it may be very attenuated. It's just an audio signal, not magic.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
I tried pinging it and wasn't successful either.
C:\Users\Stevie>ping QZ8501
Ping request could not find host QZ8501. Please check the name and try again
Perhaps it was damaged in the crash? It didn't land in a bed of roses after being gently thrown from a stationary aircraft...
Airbus doesn't sell aircraft fitted with data recorders which dont have the standard locator beacons.
Oh look, an anti-western-economic bullshitter.
Black boxes have nothing to do with insurance.
Probably just the day coming to end and it becoming dark.
But you will not take away the justification to create black boxes in the first place, which is insurance, plain and simple.
Even if this were true, what makes it a "pile of dogshit that smells". Insurance does serve a very useful role in our society.
Your insurance company really fucked you, didn't they?
By the way, I work for NTSB. I do know what I am talking about, I have
worked in the field for over 20 years. What exactly are YOUR
qualifications, other than that you own a device which allows you to post
on Slashdot ?
I'm the king of France!
You get no bars at the bottom of the ocean.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Diving to 30+ meters? Probably air. And I'm guessing it's probably not a good idea to work divers to exhaustion.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
We should count this fact as one of the greatest gifts that modern aviation, science, and policy has given us. The idea that those who died can save others in the future by figuring out what went wrong -- and that their loss is not squandered without doing something about it.
It fights the normal state of being helpless and clueless, and helps us advance. Screw those who say, "oh, this accident was God's will." No, it was not just some random/unknowable event -- it's something that we can fix and make sure it doesn't happen in the future.
The salt water really ruins the drinks anyway
Different AC here. Are jets not insured by the airline? Saving lives is the most important reason, but is that truly the underlaying motivation? Wouldn't preventing a financial loss be the motive for both the financier and insurance company?
A loss of an aircraft is not worth the gain from insurance. It still hurts, insurance just makes it hurt less.
The worst possible outcome for the airline is that people start to get the idea that air travel is unsafe. Losing an aircraft is bad, but a loss in confidence from the public is worth the entire industry. That goal is aligned with the goal of making sure that accidents don't occur, and that is the primary motivating reason.
It is deadly. And you will not get new divers.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
They are called "black box" because data goes in and nothing comes out. It is a perfectly valid designation that has nothing to do with color.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Yet no 10km long missile trail that should be visible from 25km away to the naked eye, new super stealthy missile uh huh. And all those spy satellites that can read number plates on cars also missed it because 'er' 'um' it was Russia's fault and that's all we need to know.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Insurance externalizes internalities.
No, it doesn't. There are ways to turn costs or sudden losses into externalities via publicly provided or covered insurance, but that's not an consequence of all insurance.
It seems necessary because its existence over many decades has fucked up society enough to make it that way.
It's been no easier in the past to deal with sudden catastrophes than it is now.
There are a few teardowns of the pingers on Youtube. Fascinating watch.
They are extremely solidly built, all potted as well.
I don't claim to know what actually happened to that flight. Something surely took it down.
Because everybody knows what a black box does even those that don't. With newer cars outfitted with recorder boxes, they call them black boxes so people know it's this thing that stores data for experts to examine later when "something" happens.
mfwright@batnet.com
from bbc - "Divers retrieved one of the flight data recorders of crashed AirAsia Flight QZ8501, says officials, but the voice recorder is still missing"
if you are right, then the report is a lie.
can you support your statement?
Can searchers in small research submarines look for the voice recorder? That seems safer that diving, but maybe even small submaries are too big for this kind of searching - I don't know.
I just keep thinking about the two divers who died searching for people in the MV Sewol, and the diver who died trying to help free the Costa Concordia for removal.
But they aren't indestructible.
Diving is a high-risk occupation. But small manned subs are also risky, exceedingly expensive and cannot do most things divers can. And there are not many, hence divers are used. A friend of mine is in submarine robotics, and the situation there may change the game eventually, but not anytime soon.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Personally, I disagree with the AC's assertion that black boxes are about insurance. And I have a logic problem for the AC:
There are approximately 5 ways for an aircraft to go down:
1. Human error, crew: The crew does something to cause the plane to crash.
Fault: Airline's. Airline's insurance pays
2. Mechanical error: Something fails on the aircraft, causing crash
Fault: Airline's. Airline's insurance pays
3. Human deliberate action: Terrorism, missile, etc...
Fault: Somebody else's, but generally speaking the airline's insurance still pays.
4. Outside accident: Two planes crash
Fault: Up for grabs, but let's figure it's the other plane's fault. Their insurance pays.
5. Environmental: Tornado, lighting strike, etc....
Fault: Airline's for flying into that mess. Airline's insurance company pays.
Flight data recorders don't record enough information, and the airline's insurance is going to pay in enough cases anyways that it's not worth it to push for black boxes in that case. Instead they're generally required by law so that the accident boards can better figure out the cause of the action and recommend remediation. As a result, airline travel is the safest means of moving long distances.
I don't read AC A human right
I don't reply to ACs, but I found the ac funny:
Yes... Prevent them in the future.... So insurance doesn't have to pay out in the future.
I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have an accident, especially a fatal one, in the first place. That the insurance company doesn't have to pay out as a result is a non-issue. ;)
Heck, I'd almost be glad to pay the insurance company if they were able to *prevent* an accident in the first place.
I don't read AC A human right
nice. of course, 3 out of 7 "underwater restaurants" are just last aquariums, and not actually underwater in the normal use of the word. If those count, then every hotel with an above-ground pool also can sell themselves as having an "underwater restaurant".
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
(currently scored 5, informative) to which i am responding. according to that, they are not different devices, they are redundant units - there are two, and BOTH record BOTH cockpit voice AND flight data, i presume on the same media. at last word the bbc is reporting that the cockpit voice is still missing, but this does not make sense, if the AC i am replying to is correct.
please read the reply (currently scored 5, informative) to which i am responding. according to that, they are not different devices, they are redundant units - there are two, and BOTH record BOTH cockpit voice AND flight data, i presume on the same media. at last word the bbc is reporting that the cockpit voice is still missing, but this does not make sense, if the AC i am replying to is correct.
Insurance externalizes internalities.
No, it doesn't.
In what way does it not? With insurance someone else is paying the bill even when you fuck up. You will feel some additional pain but most of it is offloaded.
There are ways to turn costs or sudden losses into externalities via publicly provided or covered insurance, but that's not an consequence of all insurance.
My remarks are limited to "most Insurance".
It's been no easier in the past to deal with sudden catastrophes than it is now.
I'm not so sure. In isolation this is an easy case to make...hey a tree fell on my house and now I can afford to fix it... there are also downsides and opportunity costs.
Hospital industry is a good example of what happens when you allow externalities to run rampant. Huge increases in overall share of GDP for little measurable improvement in outcomes. What is worse most of the expenditures go into dealing with the consequences of diseases which normally only occur when people fail to take proper care of themselves.
In any event disagreement is not grounds for -1 troll mod and +4 insightful is hardly deserved by those who veer off topic.
In what way does it not? With insurance someone else is paying the bill even when you fuck up. You will feel some additional pain but most of it is offloaded.
Because it's a voluntary transaction. An externality is an involuntary cost or benefit imposed by a transaction or activity.
Hospital industry is a good example of what happens when you allow externalities to run rampant. Huge increases in overall share of GDP for little measurable improvement in outcomes.
Note that you aren't actually speaking of insurance here. There are other factors inflating the cost of us health care.