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Silk Road Trial Defense: Mt. Gox CEO Was the Real Dread Pirate Roberts

rossgneumann writes The defense team for Ross Ulbricht, the 30-year-old man accused of running the online black market Silk Road under the pseudonym Dread Pirate Roberts, just dropped an unexpected new theory: Mark Karpeles, the CEO of failed Bitcoin company Mt. Gox, is the real Dread Pirate Roberts. "We have the name of the real mastermind and it's not Ulbricht," Joshua Dratel, Ulbricht's lawyer, said in court today. He plans to argue that Karpeles framed Ulbricht.

119 comments

  1. Grab the popcorn by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At this point, I don't care who the real 'dread pirate Roberts' is. I'm here for the show, and the show just got good.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Grab the popcorn by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      If the lawyer was smart, he would pit the DEA against the NSA instead of some bitcoin bozo.

      Now that would be entertaining.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      What is entertaining is that this agent was actually after Karpeles in 2012 and 2013 as the DPR, complete with prepping search warrants on flimsy and thin theories and asking other agents in separate operations focused on Karpeles not to spook him and ruin his own investigation and reading them the riot act when they did spook him. So really he's just using the Agent's own history to cast doubt.

    3. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe the CIA was behind it all long. They have no problem selling drugs to fund their operations in other countries.

    4. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How do you know the real Dread Pirate Roberts didn't work for the NSA. In fact, the most amusing scenario I can come up with is that the NSA created Silk Road and was the first Dread Pirate Roberts. Then they sold it to the DEA. Eventually the FBI got wind of the whole thing and the DEA passed it off to the Mt. Gox dude who framed Ross Ulbricht.

      They only thing that would add to this is if Ross Ulbricht or the Mt. Gox dude worked for the NYPD.

    5. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Very interesting that he prep'ed search warrant requests but didn't submit them. The other interesting question: How did the defense find *that*? How did that show up.

    6. Re:Grab the popcorn by Immerman · · Score: 1

      What sort of idiot DEA agent would go after the NSA? They have a nice cozy relationship with Big Brother, and would no doubt like to keep it that way. Even if an NSA agent *was* TDPR, the defense would need rock-solid evidence to even consider raising the accusation - after all this case is only addressing whether Ross is TDPR, a much easier case to win if you present an alternative that's a palatable lie rather than an unacceptable truth. Even with rock-solid evidence they might well be better off presenting it in a quiet back-room meeting rather than in court.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    7. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      lol and the missing Gox coins were the ones actually confiscated by the fed..
      its a M. Night Shyamalan Ross's Defense

    8. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ross is like, "My movie is going to be more interesting than the Snowden movie"

    9. Re:Grab the popcorn by monkeyzoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is an awesome development! That Karpeles is so hate-able.

        Has anyone watched "The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin" scene where Karpeles apologizes for losing everyone's money? It's hilarious. He says, in Japanese (paraphrasing here), "There was inadequate security, and we lost everyone's bitcoins. I am very sorry about that," and he bows down at the waist, and stays there (awkwardly) for an eternity! It's the funniest thing to see this pudgy Frenchman speaking Japanese and awkwardly performing these Japanese rituals.
      Here's a picture: http://www.dailytech.com/Mt+Go...

    10. Re:Grab the popcorn by aaron4801 · · Score: 5, Funny

      Karpeles kidnapped Ulbricht and made him work on the site. Every evening..."Good night, Ross. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." Three years he said that. "Good night, Ross. Good work. Sleep well. I'll most likely kill you in the morning." Eventually he wanted to retire. So he took Ross to his cabin and told his secret: "I am not the Dread Pirate Roberts," he said. "My name is Mark. I inherited this site from the previous Dread Pirate Roberts, just as you will inherit it from me."

    11. Re: Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      LoL!!
      This.

    12. Re:Grab the popcorn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate popcorn :( I blame Charles Carreon.

  2. I miss Law and Order by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Interesting

    You see, *this* would have been the Ripped from the Headlines story of the century.

    I love, love, love this story. Murder for hire, drugs, computers, cryptocurrency, false identities, frame-ups, parallel construction. Oh man, I can't wait for the miniseries.

  3. Trolling by Forgefather · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's official. Ross Ulbricht is trolling the government.

    --
    "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
    1. Re:Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      ...and I'm loving every minute of it. Just for that he should be let off.

    2. Re:Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not so much it's actually what the witness (and agent for the gov) thought in 2012
      ""I have a wealth of evidence to prove that [Karpeles] is Dread Pirate Roberts," the agent wrote at the time.

      Karpeles, who is from France, ran what was once the world's largest Bitcoin exchange, Mt. Gox, which was based in Tokyo. DerYeghiayan's theory was that Karpeles wanted to create a market that used Bitcoin in order to keep the price of the semi-anonymous cryptocurrency robust, which he believed was probable cause for Karpeles's arrest. (Mt. Gox went bankrupt in early 2014.)"

    3. Re:Trolling by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Maybe Ross Ulbricht took over from Karpeles after Karpeles retired to Patagonia.

    4. Re:Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That real question is what of the 6 fingered man?

    5. Re:Trolling by mcl630 · · Score: 1

      And who is Kaiser Soze?

    6. Re:Trolling by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 2

      That real question is what of the 6 fingered man?

      The 6 fingered man is an allegory; it's actually 6 departments of the US government.

      But we have yet to see the appearance of Inigo Montoya....

    7. Re:Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That or he thinks he's Keyser Soze.

    8. Re:Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      HALLLLLOOOOOOOOOO!

      My name is Inigo Montoya, you killed my father.

      Prepare to die!

      rinse repeat!

  4. Can't Blame 'Em by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gotta make lemonade with the lemons you have...

    I hear they're also using the "My client is too intelligent to have made such stupid errors" defense that didn't work out so well for Hans Reiser.

  5. "Your Honor, I have something to confess..." by halivar · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I am not left-handed."

    1. Re:"Your Honor, I have something to confess..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Judge: "Oh, there's something I ought to tell you... I'm not left-handed either."

    2. Re:"Your Honor, I have something to confess..." by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

      "Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line"

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  6. Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Roberts" by sirwired · · Score: 5, Funny

    Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund, and he's been living like a king in Patagonia for 20 years."

  7. 100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The agent's theory that this was done to keep the price of bitcoins high doesn't make sense. There's more money to be made in arbitrage by having the price fluctuate wildly, especially if you're the one controlling when bitcoins that are taken off the market (MtGox trades them for real money) are converted to other currencies.. A small float leaves it open to greater manipulation, same as penny stocks.

    Also, why would anyone wait until now to introduce such a theory? "Oh, maybe they want to sue the US after? for damages" Not gonna happen - you have a responsibility to mitigate any damage done, and giving up the real person running it would do that. Unless he thought that he could win another way and get back all those bitcoins ... and now realizes he can't no matter what.

    Just too convenient an excuse at the last minute for my tastes - and my common sense. And now he's gonna piss off the jury,because they're going to smell it for what it is - an attempt to fool the jury.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

      And now he's gonna piss off the jury,because they're going to smell it for what it is - an attempt to fool the jury.

      unfortunately, i think you are overestimating most juries

      their affinity/ understanding of soap opera level drama is way more than their understanding of basic tor networking or how bitcoin works

      get into the technical facts that prove ulbricht is guilty, and their eyes will glaze over and they will fall asleep

      start tossing random unfounded accusation smoke screens, the prosecution shouting "objection," the judge growling "sustained"... and they'll perk right up and start writing notes

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    2. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by drerwk · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't think the soundness of the theory is so important to the jury as is the fact that the agent was sure this other guy was the DPR, and now the agent is sure the defendant is the DPR - the agent has to admit to being wrong before and can be asked why in 6 months he would not have a new theory about who really is the DPR. I think it leaves a lot of doubt about the certainty the agent ought to feel about his theory.

    3. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody ever accused "agents" of the US Customs service as being the brightest bulbs in the room.
       

    4. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you overlook the obvious fact that DerYeghiayan's actions suggest a "throw some shit on the wall and see what sticks" approach to his investigation.

    5. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. This isn't about convincing the jury it was indeed Mr. Mt.Gox who should be in this court room, it just goes to reasonable doubt pointing out even the government wasn't sure who the real DPR was, and this agent thought it was someone else for sure for a long time based on some pretty thin theories, and acted on those thin theories. hmm what other thin theories has this agent come up with that were directed at the defendant? It's just seed planting with the jury, maybe they bloom later maybe they don't.

    6. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by hattable · · Score: 2

      At the same time get into the technical facts that prove someone is innocent and they will zone out until something loud and shiny happens.

      --
      OMG facts!
    7. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking of which - check out the update on the article... Prosecution started objecting to the line of questioning, looks like the judge will let it continue though come tomorrow. If I'm on the jury eating my popcorn I'm already wondering what the prosecution is trying to hide with all these objections to what seems an interesting story.
      Cause you know now that this defense guy has the agent talking I want to hear the rest of story about this Gox feller, he seems an interesting fella and this thing is supposed to go like a month, I'm thinking we can spend another 20 minutes on this crazy shit as I internally giggle and shift in my chair every time I hear "Dread Pirate Roberts" and ponder who I can assign the rolls of Count Rugen too in this unfolding story - maybe it could be this Gox feller, but I gotta here more first - oh darn we've been dismissed for the day.

    8. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why wait until now?

      Now, they've got a Federal agent on the witness stand, they've gotten his files through discovery, and they're asking him to read from those files.

      Money quotes like "I have a wealth of evidence to prove that [Karpeles] is Dread Pirate Roberts"

      Did the Fed have a fully consistent theory of how and why Karpeles was interested in keeping a lot of bitcoin on the move?

      Who cares - the discovery produced excellent reasonable doubt from a prosecution expert witness.

      If they'd introduced this argument ahead of this agent's testimony, the DoJ would have made him temporarily unavailable until they reclassified his work on national security grounds. The prosecution's already halted the trial to have a meltdown at the notion that the defendant is entitled to a vigorous defense.

    9. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " And now he's gonna piss off the jury,because they're going to smell it for what it is - an attempt to fool the jury."

      In any criminal case where a crime has been committed, the defense tries to convince the jury (1) no crime happened or (2) someone else did it.
      That's how it works, my friend.

    10. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Jurors have a good bs detector. They don't need to understand the technical details to know when someone's blowing smoke up their skirts.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    11. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The juror is there to determine the facts of the case. The prosecution and defense are both giving their sides. The jury may decide that there's reasonable doubt, doubt but it's not reasonable, or no doubt one way or another. It's their call. They really don't care about the agent's theories, because they are not FACTS.

      You can present 1,000 theories about why there should be some doubt about you being the killer, including the police originally thinking it was someone else - but if facts, such as a video surfaces of you doing the deed, and they find the weapon with your dna and fingerprints on it, you're most likely toast. The facts trump any amount of theories.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe keeping not the price of Bitcoins high, but the keep volume high which is more advantageous then price fluctuations in any market. And since only drugged out hippies use Bitcoin, controlling what Bitcoins are being used to buy and sell is a strong move.

    13. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      I think you overlook the obvious fact that DerYeghiayan's actions suggest a "throw some shit on the wall and see what sticks" approach to his investigation.

      So what? When you're starting from scratch, you have to start somewhere, and your first theory will most likely be wrong; let's see the FACTS of the case, not theories on either side.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    14. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      No, it hasn't. It depends on what facts both sides are able to come up with. Theories are just that - theories. Jurors are there to sort through it all and determine the facts of the case. If I were the prosecutor, it would be very easy to turn this testimony to my advantage by asking the agent what finally changed his mind, since he was SO certain - he must have had a pretty powerful reason.

      If the prosecutor is having a meltdown, either he or she is out of their league, or they're acting because they want to bait the hook even more for when they finally reel that sucker in ...

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol now thats rich.

    16. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by tlambert · · Score: 1

      The agent's theory that this was done to keep the price of bitcoins high doesn't make sense. There's more money to be made in arbitrage by having the price fluctuate wildly, especially if you're the one controlling when bitcoins that are taken off the market (MtGox trades them for real money) are converted to other currencies.. A small float leaves it open to greater manipulation, same as penny stocks.

      Arbitrage is only useful for something for which there is an established market.

      A simultaneous purchase and sale of bitcoins will only work if you have, simultaneously, both a buyer and a seller, and you are the middleman. Mt. Gox was indeed the middleman, and could, indeed, attract sellers (miners), but in order to have buyers, bitcoins would have to have utility.

      Mt Gox was more in the position of what's called a "Market Maker", and made money not through Arbitrage, but by providing liquidity in the market for bitcoins. As such, they acted more in the role of a currency exchange.

      As such, it would have been of incredible value to them to have people wanting to buy bitcoins for whatever reason, and Silk Road was one of these reasons (one might argue: the primary reason). So it's not entirely beyond the pale that they would, in order to create a buy-demand for bitcoins, establish a means of converting bitcoins into something desirable, and difficult to obtain through means other than bitcoins... such as Silk Road provided.

      You frequently see this type of behaviour in the stock market, where, for example, the bridge loan for a company doing an IPO is provided by the investment bank which is acting as a Market Maker for the stock being offered within the IPO.

      So, if they understood economics sufficiently well, I definitely wouldn't put it past them, and, as theories go, it *does* make a lot of sense, from that perspective.

    17. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Do you say this because the jurors are your peers?

      I've been on juries where the people with BS detectors were a vocal minority. It made me think: "What if I was on a jury where the guy with the BS detector wasn't so vocal?"

      The worst part is that on one of these, we found the guy not guilty even though he had obviously done it -- because the prosecution failed to prove their case but attempted to lean on BS to prop things up instead of evidence, leaving reasonable doubt.

      See, the prosecution thought they'd done enough because most of the jury was nodding and obviously agreeing with their argument. That one guy pointed out the fact that no actual evidence had been presented, just circumstantial evidence.

      Unfortunately, that one guy wasn't even me :) The prosecutors did a really good job until you broke everything down and tossed out what wasn't fact -- which on this case took days of being sequestered to fully untangle. Many others were really annoyed that the one guy wouldn't just shut up and let everyone go home on a guilty verdict.

    18. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Of course maybe it is just a lie built around a truth, there was more than one Dread Pirate Roberts, in fact there was a whole family of them. With any digital ponzi currency that is easy to produce at first and then gets harder, all you want is a high price because of course those that kick off the ponzi currency scheme create a huge hoard for themselves prior to attempting to launch the currency. So rising and falling prices does them no good at all because they have a huge hoard to get rid of. Of course as with all scams greed driven stupidity sets in and they go nuts in their rush for real cash.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    19. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Lunix+Nutcase · · Score: 1

      I've actually been on juries and I've seen this sort of tactic tried a number of times as well. No one on any of the juries fell for it and it ended up always backfiring for he defense.

    20. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      No, I say this from experience with a couple of murder trials - one as a witness, the other as a juror.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    21. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by lgw · · Score: 2

      Juries want a "story of the crime" they can believe. Prosecution and defense each tell such a story, and juries go with the more compelling tale. The job of the defense is to invent a story that includes all the facts and still explains why the defendant didn't do it.

      That's why we have this somewhat goofy story of the bitcoin CEO - the defense does far better when they present a specific alternative killer (that's a better story than "some unknown guy"), and any suggestions that put the alternative in the scene makes the story more credible.

      So the agent's theories are quite useful to the defense in knocking down the credibility of the prosecution's story by attacking the credibility of the agent: "see, he got it wrong before, so don't take anything he touched too seriously" - it's a good emotional argument. If there's some fact that doesn't fit into the defense's story (but the rest works), then they need to start attacking the credibility or relevance of that inconvenient fact from the start of the trial. If there are several, they're pretty screwed, but if there's a common source for them all then they're going to at least try to knock down the source, in hopes the jury isn't paying attention to the details.

      All of which is likely why the judge was so insistent into explaining all the details to the jury - to limit such defense shenanigans.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    22. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Witness at on murder trial, jury on the other.... I'll just stay the fuck away from you.

    23. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by lgw · · Score: 1

      No doubt the defense did their best to exclude potential jurists with your mindset from the jury - it's not the common one.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    24. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Thee's a 3rd, but it's sealed by court order :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    25. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by billstewart · · Score: 1

      Coworker of mine was on a drug trial jury (back in ~1990 in New Jersey.) The (Hispanic) defendant had bought some airplane glue at the hardware store, and was carrying it home in the plastic bag from the store. The cop claimed that obviously he was intending it for glue sniffing, and the plastic bag was the drug paraphernalia he was planning to sniff it in, and was obviously Guilty Guilty Guilty. Joe was not only appalled that the case was brought in the first place, but that he and one other techie were the only two jurors who thought there was reasonable doubt there (actually, thought there was no doubt at all, the guy was buying glue to fix something at his house.)

      But yeah, I think that Ulricht's lawyer claiming that "This isn't the Dread Pirate Roberts you're looking for" is going to be a tough sell. Might be all he's got to go on, though (especially if he actually was DPR.)

      --

      Bill Stewart
      New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
    26. Re: 100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you played out "12 Angry Men"?

    27. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

      Right. But DerYeghiayan's testimony is just testimony, not factual evidence. The whole point of this cross examination is to discredit the testimony. Testimony doesn't rise to the same level as fact by default, as humans are unreliable. It's not the same as hard evidence or accepted facts that are undisputed in a case.

    28. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I once had police issue a warrant for my arrest for "assaulting a police officer". When I handed myself in a week later, rejecting the charge, they made out a "statement" by the officer which contained my description.
      When it went to trial I called the people that had cut my beard and trimmed 6 inches off my hair on a day BETWEEN the alleged assault and the day that I handed myself in.
      The police were caught out in a lie and their fabricated story didn't wash with the jury and I was acquited, but NOTHING ever happened to them for their perjury.

    29. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jurors are random idiots. Random idiots tend to vote for Republicans or Democrats, which is a very bad decision since they're all professional bullshitters and evil scumbags. Don't treat them as if they're intelligent.

    30. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by drerwk · · Score: 1

      The juror is there to determine the facts of the case. The prosecution and defense are both giving their sides. The jury may decide that there's reasonable doubt, doubt but it's not reasonable, or no doubt one way or another. It's their call. They really don't care about the agent's theories, because they are not FACTS.

      I assume that the agent's theories were developed to support some set of facts that he had at hand and that those facts can still be pointed to in support of the previous theory. I've not studied this case in any detail, but I know that the goal of any prosecutor is to get a conviction, sometimes more so than being sure they have the right guilty party on trial. While in the ideal world, justice and truth might converge, in our world justice is on a clock and the truth is not.

    31. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Maritz · · Score: 1

      You call it a 'digital ponzi currency' to express your disdain for it, but in doing so your completely weaken your own position, because a ponzi scheme is completely fucking different.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    32. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Likewise, in any criminal case (regardless of whether a crime has been committed), the prosecution tries to convince the jury (1) a crime happened *and* (2) the defendant did it. That's how it works, my friend.

    33. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Theories can be useful to the defense. The jury is there to determine facts, but primarily to either be convinced (beyond reasonable doubt) that the defendant did it or not to be so convinced. Ideally, a plausible explanation that doesn't involve the defendant being guilty will result in an acquittal.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    34. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Ponzi schemes start easy and become hard, for late comer a delusion for early starters very profitable, basically selling nothing but pretending it will have a huge future value that others will pay for ie exactly like bitcoin schemes and I am surprised why they are not prosecuted as such. Seriously money for nothing https://www.youtube.com/watch?... here cheer up and listen to your theme song.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    35. Re: 100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      No, because many of the jurors were women on that one (and one actually knew the defendant by sight, which was a bit unnerving).

    36. Re: 100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Aren't jurors who know the defendant supposed to, I don't know, get disqualified?

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    37. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      That one guy pointed out the fact that no actual evidence had been presented, just circumstantial evidence.

      It's tough to judge based on that description. But enough circumstantial evidence is evidence.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    38. Re:100% Pure USDA-Disapporoved Bull by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Yeah; that was what took the extended deliberation -- deciding if it was enough. The prosecution probably *could* have provided enough in this circumstance, but the jury decided he didn't, likely because he was so confident that he'd already swayed us with the "obvious" circumstantial evidence.

      This just proves the point I was making though -- even when the jurors can see through the grandstanding, it doesn't mean that they'll react positively or negatively to being cajoled along by the professionals -- they can be fickle (or methodical) in both directions.

  8. Hans Reiser tried this defense by sirwired · · Score: 2

    Hans Reiser tried the "somebody else did it" defense. He suggested it was somebody else, but presented no more than vague hints in that general direction suggesting that somebody else had motive. (And, of course, it was all silly hand-waving, since he later confessed and led police to the body.) For Ulbrict's sake, let's hope he has something more substantive.

    The police have no obligation to investigate alternate suspects once they've decided on one to charge. If you, defendant, want to blame the crime on somebody else, you need to perform your own investigation rather than merely pointing out the police didn't chase after whomever the defendant thinks would be a more worthy suspect.

    I don't know if Ulbrict has some real evidence; if he did, you'd think he would have released it by now.

    1. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by mSparks43 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, tfa says the people investing âUlbricht also have a "wealth of evidence" that Dread Pirate Roberts was Karpeles.

      Mix that in with Ulbricht only needing one air tight alibi that he couldn't of done something DPR did (highly likely if multple users shared the DPR account)

      And he'll be walking out a free man.

    2. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Didn't OJ use a similar defense?

    3. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by firewrought · · Score: 1

      Hans Reiser tried the "somebody else did it" defense.

      Maybe he suggested that at some point, but his main argument was that Nina had gone back to Russia.

      For Ulbrict's sake, let's hope he has something more substantive.

      For justice's sake, let's hope the jury is able to navigate the technical details, filter out bullshit theories and scare-mongering, and render an accurate verdict--whether it's guilt or not gulity.

      --
      -1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
    4. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The police have no obligation to investigate alternate suspects once they've decided on one to charge.

      I sure hope that isn't the case, given that the police have a monopoly on evidence collection.

      Say someone is murdered: Can you send over a private investigator to collect evidence and interview witnesses just in case six months down the road the police decide to charge you with the crime? No? What about after they charge you, are you allowed to start gathering evidence then, assuming there is any left to find at that point, and start interviewing witnesses to learn anything they might say that the police haven't bothered to follow up on? ...or would your "harassment" of the victim's family simply lead to more charges against you, and also be used as evidence against you in your current trial?

      The police have an obligation to investigate every possibility simply because they are the only ones authorized to have all of the evidence. They can't just pick one person, decide they did it, and pursue only investigations that might lead to a conviction against that one person. It isn't their job to put the suspect in jail, it's their job to put the criminal in jail, and so merely having a suspect doesn't absolve them of their responsibility to do a full investigation.

    5. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      No OJ was found not guilty because the prosecution spent ages building up the case that the murder wore a particular pair of gloves, when those gloves failed to fit in front of the jury their was reasonable doubt and the prosecution was lost as there was now reasonable doubt and the state of California required the prosecution to prove the case beyond reasonable doubt.

    6. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      My impression is that Mark Fuhrman (sp?) had something to do with it. He was the main police investigator, and when he was proven a liar it cast doubt on the other evidence. When the case is based on evidence of doubtful veracity, the jury should acquit. At the time, I thought that Fuhrman had either hurt or helped OJ a great deal, depending on whether he did kill Nicole or not.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:Hans Reiser tried this defense by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Actually, the police have no obligation to follow all leads. Their role is to find enough evidence to convince the jury that the defendant is guilty. If they can't, then the case won't go to trial or the defendant will be acquitted, and they either will keep looking for suspects and/or evidence or drop the case. If they can, then presumably the defendant is guilty.

      There are cases in which an independent investigation can be useful, such as to cast doubt on the veracity of witnesses, but that's fairly minor.

      I'm deliberately not addressing the possibility of police misconduct, since in those cases the police would not look for contrary evidence no matter what.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. Can we get Hans Reiser involved somehow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That would be cool...

    1. Re:Can we get Hans Reiser involved somehow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That would be cool...

      What? Was DPR trying to get a contract hit on his wife?

    2. Re:Can we get Hans Reiser involved somehow? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not his wife as far as I can tell.
      http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/11/21/alleged-silk-road-ross-ulbricht-creator-now-accused-of-six-murder-for-hires-denied-bail/

  10. Re:Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Robert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Roberts either. His name was Cummerbund, and he's been living like a king in Patagonia for 20 years."

    His real name was Elvis, but he's 'retired' now and only impersonated by folks here and there.

  11. FUD by goldcd · · Score: 0

    Or maybe it isn't.
    Just personally I'd liked the idea of the defendant stepping up, admitting running the whole thing, and saying he'd arranged a x many hundred thousand/million drug deals where nobody got hurt, nobody was coerced and to possibly point out that the major issue with narcotics is merely how they're handled, rather than their eternal existence and the last century's completely useless attempts at prohibition.
    Whoever ran SR, they'll forever have my admiration for what they did and voluntarily banning the sale of items that certain governments to this day refuse to consider as 'harmful'.
    The Charlie Hebdo incident that occurred last week. Would this be more, or less likely to have occurred if we lived under the rules of the USA or Silk Road?

    1. Re:FUD by GameboyRMH · · Score: 3, Informative

      Do you also support contract killings? Because he ordered hits on a few people.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:FUD by sjames · · Score: 1

      We get the killings either way. Admittedly when the U.S. does it they use cool flying robots, but still...

    3. Re:FUD by jdavidb · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Do you also support contract killings? Because he ordered hits on a few people.

      The U.S. government that is prosecuting Ross pays for killings every day. Why should they have a monopoly?

    4. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How'd you get +5 informative for this? The "ordered hits" allegations are grade A bullshit. There's basically no evidence at all and the supposed act doesn't even come close to fitting the defendant's character. The prosecution even decided to drop the charges early on (although the judge still leans on these old allegations from time to time in denying Ross bail and denying him his right to know who will testify against him).

      I get it. People fall for blatant smear campaigns all the time. But how am I supposed to filter out such idiot comments when everyone else is modding them up.

    5. Re:FUD by sudon't · · Score: 2

      I would like to take the time to point out to anyone thinking of doing this: Anyone claiming to be a hit man is actually a cop. That probably goes for anyone claiming to be a teenage girl who is interested in your online sexual advances, as well. Hope I've saved you some trouble.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    6. Re:FUD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      nobody got hurt

      I'm certainly no fan of the drug war, but DAMN, that's just an incorrect statement. How do you know nobody got hurt? People are hurt in drug trafficking all the time, either directly or indirectly. Drugs trade hands plenty of times before they entered the Silk Road marketplace and you don't know what happened during those transactions. Also, what about the person who is killed obtaining drugs for Silk Road? What about the people who ODed on what they bought on Silk Road. Come on.

      I don't support the drug war or prohibition at all, but damn, you can't be so myopic to believe that nobody is hurt by drug trafficking.

  12. I dunno by goldcd · · Score: 1

    Having oil traded in dollars seems to be working out reasonably well for some.

  13. Oh yea right.... by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Blame the dead bank....

    If this is the best he can do, I'm going out on a limb here and predicting he will be convicted on all counts....

    BTC is just a cauldron of crime and deceit, it's basically used to launder money, hide assets and pay for illegal goods... Oh yea, now and then somebody does something perfectly legal using it...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    1. Re:Oh yea right.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that's different to the US dollar how?

  14. I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts! by edremy · · Score: 1

    *stands*

    --
    "Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
    1. Re:I'm the Dread Pirate Roberts! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I thought you were Spartacus?

  15. I love vice also has an article on Patagonia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess Cummerbund can get into the fur business with bitcoin - http://motherboard.vice.com/read/beaver-slayers-of-patagonia?trk_source=popular

  16. the BiteCon is ON! by swschrad · · Score: 1

    at what point do they trot out Vinnie and Butch before the strongmen get rushed into the Witness Protection System? this looks like the eMafia.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  17. turn OJ loose by swschrad · · Score: 1

    I think these guys are the "real killers" too

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  18. sit DOWN, Perry Mason! by swschrad · · Score: 1

    and just how the hell did you get in here?

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
  19. I miss Law and Order by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI:_Cyber

  20. Would have gotten away with it to by zeroryoko1974 · · Score: 1

    If it hadn't been for this kids and their dog

  21. Re:Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Robert by Grog6 · · Score: 1

    The drag is that there probably is a more Evil character involved than DPR, much like the movie.

    I predict there will be R.O.U.S. springing from the woodwork everywhere soon as well. :)

    There is a lot of Parallel Construction at work as well.

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
  22. Re:Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Robert by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

    Reprobates of Unusual Size? I don't believe they exist.

    --
    Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
  23. No by goldcd · · Score: 2

    He didn't.

    1. Re:No by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      According to the charging documents he most certainly did. They document a case where he hired a hitman to wipe out a former developer but the job went to the FBI who faked the death and provided "proof". Said person is one of the witnesses against him that he is DPR. You might argue that it's a made up story but the story exists.

    2. Re:No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the story comes from a federal prosecutor it is almost certainly made up. They are the biggest liars in the world.

  24. lol... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...can't wait to see the "proof"

  25. Hans Reiser did nothing wrong. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Hans Reiser did nothing wrong.
    Nina was an adulteress and the Old Testament commands Reiser to kill her. Kill her he did.

    It also allows marrying young girls (female children), even in cases of rape.

    It says man is the master of the woman.

  26. I believe him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I believe him.

  27. What a n00b. blame north korea! by 0xdeaddead · · Score: 1

    I'd be all over that Kim Something Ill or other, and blame North Korea! After all, they have the most elite hackers in the world! Use the FBI against themselves.

  28. I'll be the first to say it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kaperles did nothing wrong.

    1. Re:I'll be the first to say it by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Kaperles ran a company that lost a very large amount of depositor's funds in suspicious circumstances. Either he was incompetent, in which case he did things wrong, or he was malicious, in which case he did wrong things. Either contradicts "did nothing wrong".

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  29. That would be my argument - yes by goldcd · · Score: 1

    I seem to originally recall when he was first arrested, that he was charged with actually having people killed.
    This having been proudly announced before they actually knew who these people were, had any bodies, just ridiculously, laughable over-charging (and clearly designed to bias whatever came next).
    I'm interest to see where this all goes - but so far it appears to be utter bollocks and lies (now) from both sides.

  30. Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The U.S. government that is prosecuting Ross pays for killings every day. Why should they have a monopoly?

    Because that's what a government is: a (local) monopoly on the use of force. The justification for this is "so that the strong should not harm the weak."

    It's refreshing that you're openly anarchic rather than merely libertarian.

    1. Re:Monopolies by r.freeman · · Score: 1

      And that justification is bullshit.

    2. Re:Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the government is just the majority on the use of force. The reason they have mafia task forces and cartel task forces, is because they are *not* a monopoly, but they surely don't want to lose their majority position.

      I for one am happy with the arrangement. Countries like the US and Germany with a majority rule of force tend to be much less brutal and oppressive than countries with a monopoly rule of force like North Korea. You need some competition to keep them honest, but you don't want so much competition that you end up in civil war like Syria or Libya.

      In fact this is the best argument against panopticon surveillance. The availability of a black market, and the freedom to violate stupid laws without being persecuted is an often un-enumerated protector of human rights and tool of liberty. When risk becomes certainty, people lose the freedom to risk breaking the law, people become slaves to the law, no matter how heinous and oppressive the law becomes.

      It also becomes impossible to undo bad law, because mere criticism of the law as it stands makes you a suspect, and subject to greater scrutiny and usually harrassment. The law can then only ever progress towards a more oppressive state. The dissenters are punished, and the abstainers and consenters are rewarded for their compliance until all freedom is lost, or a greater or more secret violence frees the dissenters.

    3. Re:Monopolies by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Should everybody be allowed to kill other people? Should nobody be allowed to kill other people? I don't like the consequences of either of those extremes, and the only alternative is that some group or groups of people be allowed to kill other people (presumably under certain restrictions). That group or groups will be part of the government.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  31. Heh by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    Do you also support contract killings? Because he ordered hits on a few people.

    Or so you've been told by the Fed^H^H^H Media.

  32. Don't miss next week's episode... by plcurechax · · Score: 1

    Where the FBI submit a swore affidavit that Kim DotCom is Dread Pirate Roberts to the New Zealand courts in a bid to further his extradition to US, because surely those sheep-loving Kiwis can't possibly resist the War-on-Drugs(tm) as a legitimate reason to let the MPAA/RIAA go after Kim DotCom for digital piracy[1].

    If he wasn't under so much financial pressure (freezing of assets) I'd expect him to make a press release suggesting it himself.

    But the conspiracy theorists will posit that John McAfee is the real Dread Pirate Roberts. I mean he was found in Belize of all places. What do you think it was really doing there? Creating his second, pseudonyms fortune, this time without the IRS insisting on payments. Hell, half of software multimillionaires who have been in tufts with the IRS themselves would likely support his venture on the down low.

    [1] Okay, infringement of intellectual property doesn't have the same sense of dire urgency does it.

  33. Tactic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is not a serious theory. They just need to provide sliver of doubt in the minds of the jury. Then at the end they say: "are you really, really sure it wasn't Karpeles who framed mr Ulbricht here?"

  34. Re:Karpeles: "I'm not the real Dread Pirate Robert by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    well theyre obviously American...