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Iran Forced To Cancel Its Space Program

MarkWhittington writes The War is Boring blog reported that the Islamic Republic of Iran has been obliged to cancel its nascent space program. This development means that former Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's dream of being the first astronaut to be launched into space by Iran have been dashed. Ironically, Anousheh Ansari, who was obliged to flee to the United States from Iran to avoid religious oppression, remains the only Iranian-born space traveler. She did it by going to Texas, making her fortune in the electronics business, and paying for her trip to the International Space Station.

38 of 141 comments (clear)

  1. Re:WHO forced them? by Njorthbiatr · · Score: 2

    Well, they probably couldn't figure out how to Photoshop their way into space.

  2. Too bad! by taiwanjohn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Whatever you think of their politics, I'm sorry to see them leave the club, even if it's only temporarily. Spaceflight is one of the few remaining areas of "friendly rivalry" where everybody still cheers for the other teams' success, even as we hope to best them. Nobody ever watches a launch and thinks "I hope it explodes! I hope it explodes!" No... you always think "Go, baby, go!"

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    1. Re:Too bad! by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      Of course, the problem with rocketry is the ability to launch people/satellites into space is pretty much the same as required to lob missiles onto someone else.

      And, let's face it, Iran is largely under the sway of people who are a little on the crazy side. Ahmadinejad is pretty much batshit crazy and deluded.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Too bad! by houghi · · Score: 2

      That would make them fit pretty wel with the other crazy countries that have a space program.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Too bad! by neilo_1701D · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then I guess you forgot about some Arabs cheering in the streets as Columbia broke up.

    4. Re:Too bad! by taiwanjohn · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Ahmedinijad is out of power and the tales of Iran's nuclear program (from what I can see) appear to be mostly overblown propaganda. I'll grant that this is a "legitimate" issue among "experts" in diplomacy, but I'm not buying it. YMMV...

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    5. Re:Too bad! by taiwanjohn · · Score: 2

      No, I didn't forget about it, I never heard of it before. That is sad. Citation....??

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    6. Re:Too bad! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can always find idiots who will cheer about someones misfortune. They exist all over the world, even on slashdot.

    7. Re:Too bad! by neilo_1701D · · Score: 4, Informative

      Given that it was so long ago, finding actual news sites is hard. I found http://www.memri.org/report/en... which has a summary of Arab reactions; some good and some bad.

    8. Re:Too bad! by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't discount the fact that a significant minority of the world has been working towards keeping Iran out of the nuclear club. Small countries can have success with nuclear programs and also long range rocketry. It's not like they need to reinvent the wheel to get these things.

      If you run a tightly managed and budgeted program to build a nuke these days, you can probably do it on a (relative) shoestring. What the West has done is work to increase the overhead for completing the project to unsustainable levels, both directly via sabotage and embargoes, and indirectly via sanctions.

      Iran could probably afford to assemble weapons, what it cannot do is afford to do that and maintain high security in addition to lack of access to experts and materials.

    9. Re:Too bad! by mi · · Score: 2

      Whatever you think of their politics

      Well, it is exactly those policies, that made them a pariah of the world (except, of course, Russia) and caused the very poverty, that forced them cancel the space-program.

      Spaceflight is one of the few remaining areas of "friendly rivalry" where everybody still cheers for the other teams' success

      That may be so between Europe and US. Russia — and knowing Russian I know it for sure — stopped cheering American successes about 10 years ago. USSR never did either — when the Moon-landing was watched world-wide by everyone with a TV, USSR's television was broadcasting a ballet — the news appeared in news-papers the next day, but there certainly was no "cheering" of the other team's success.

      I dare speculate, the official Iran today are much the same. As the old Russian saying goes: "tell me, who your friend is, and I'll say, who you are."

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    10. Re:Too bad! by taiwanjohn · · Score: 2

      You're right. A nuclear "terrorist" attack is not impossible in the next 10 years, esp. the "dirty bomb" variety. But I don't think even the the "loonies" in Iran would launch a first strike. What possible benefit could be gained? At what cost? The entire proposition is ludicrous. Please explain.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    11. Re:Too bad! by JackieBrown · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope - that was the Arabs (Palestinians) too.

      http://www.snopes.com/rumors/r...

    12. Re:Too bad! by murdocj · · Score: 2

      Hmm... you mean enriching uranium far beyond the needs of producing power? That "overblown propaganda"?

      Let's enter reality here. If all Iran wanted was nuclear power, the deal would take about an hour to conclude. Limited enrichment and international inspection... sanctions lifted as they demonstrate they are willing to follow thru. Huge benefit to the Iranian people. Pretty hard not to notice that they at least want to have the option to produce a bomb, even if they aren't going there straightaway.

    13. Re:Too bad! by stoatwblr · · Score: 2

      "Well, it is exactly those policies, that made them a pariah of the world"

      Iran used to be a friendly westernised, secular, relatively neutral country.

      It got a bit too friendly with russia, so the CIA sponsored a coup and put a young colonel named Palavi in as Shah.

      The Shah then proceeded to rule with an iron fist and stomp all over religion - who got good at clandestine organising for survival purposes.

      After 30 years people got sick of the brutality and had a revolution, organised by the religious groups as they had a lot of experience at it. Unfortunately they proved no better than what had gone before, HOWEVER they were "home grown" despots, rather than "despots put in by the west"

      Iran's "attitude" is mostly sabre rattling because it generates a response which can be used as a bogeyman to keep their own population under a tight leash. If western powers simply went "yeah, right. Whatever", the Iranian leadership would lose credibility and power in a short period of time.

      That won't happen, simply because it's _convenient_ for western powers to have a bogeyman of their own to keep their populations on a leash and the US federal govt on the war footing it's been flailing about trying to keep going since the end of the cold war (as soon as it steps down from that, it must devolve power back to the individual states). Iran is providing the Bogeyman.

      It was western interference with an elected democratic govt and support of a vicious despot which eventually led to religious nutters getting control in Iran and western interference which then caused ongoing economic problems. Do you think the population needs much encouragement to spout anti-western comments? (FWIW the prime reason the religious nutters are still in control is because they have control of the military. Iran's young people have made things pretty clear about the way they feel on a number of occasions as as they comprise half the population, they will be a force to be reckoned with in the next couple of decades.)

  3. Re:WHO forced them? by pjt33 · · Score: 2

    What I'd like to see in the abstract is an explanation of what the submitter thinks "ironically" means. Maybe Mark Whittington is Alanis Morrisette's alias.

  4. Re:Where did you read WHO forced them? by gman003 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From the tone of the articles, it seems more like "they couldn't justify continued funding with current levels of success". In other words, they're having a budget crunch (not unreasonable given the current economy), and the space program vanity-project was one of the first things on the chopping block.

  5. Self-aggrandizing by kylegordon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    FTA "but had to become an American to realize her full potential."

    Where others might say "had to leave Iran to realize her full potential" ...

    1. Re:Self-aggrandizing by neilo_1701D · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

      If she left Iran and went to (say) Afghanistan, would that have have helped her realize her full potential? Doubt it. Or let's pick another country: Australia. Suppose she went there. Given the state of the Australian space program, could she have realized her full potential? Of course not; Australia can barely launch a helium balloon (I'm Australian, BTW).

      No, if her full potential was to go into space, there's only really three countries available: China, Russia and the United States. Of those three, given the choice, which would you pick? So, saying that she "...had to become an American to realize her full potential." is completely fair.

      I don't understand how you get 'Self-aggrandizing' out of this.

    2. Re:Self-aggrandizing by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Others could say that, but the fact remains that this is how she managed it.

      Although I understand the desire to point out that the US has no monopoly on successful immigrants, it is also important to point out that this is something you can do as someone who moves to America. If she had moved to Britain or France or Germany and had the same career, would that not reflect credit on those countries as well?

      More to the point, leaving Iran isn't enough. There are a lot of places she could have gone which might not have allowed her to succeed.

  6. Re:WHO forced them? by demachina · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More probably plunging oil prices have wiped out the Iranian governments revenue stream. There is speculation that one of the reasons Saudi Arabia is continuing to pump oil and crater oil prices is to cripple Iran, a bitter Shia enemy, and defund programs like uranium enrichment, missile development, their miliary in general and their support for other anti Sunni groups in the Middle East.

    The other speculations for continued Saudi efforts to crash oil prices are to wipe out frackers in the U.S. so they can regain more political control over the U.S., to wipe out expensive offshore and artic oil exploration, to punish Russia at the behest of the U.S. or because Russia is a key benefactor of Iran.

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    @de_machina
  7. Re:WHO forced them? by pushing-robot · · Score: 2

    Don't forget the Islamic State, which also counts oil as its primary source of income. Saudi Arabia has no shortage of reasons to drive down oil prices.

    --
    How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
  8. Re:WHO forced them? by neilo_1701D · · Score: 3, Funny

    What I'd like to see in the abstract is an explanation of what the submitter thinks "ironically" means.

    I saw that too. Looks like the submitter was trying to distance himself from the "literally" crowd. Ironically, he fell flat on his face.

  9. Hurrah for America, the land of opportunity by mi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    She did it by going to Texas, making her fortune in the electronics business, and paying for her trip to the International Space Station.

    Now, if an immigrant from a 3rd-world country — coming here with little English and knowledge of culture, can do it, what is the excuse of the natively born-and-raised Americans?

    Whom can they blame for being unable to afford whatever they want by age of 40?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Hurrah for America, the land of opportunity by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Selection bias. Only the restless care to leave their homes and support networks behind to try to navigate an alien, racist culture where people are measured by how much money they make.

      I'm concerned about the dog-whistle racism in your post. It sounds like you're bitching about a certain group that was recently the victim of police violence.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  10. Re:WHO forced them? by HornWumpus · · Score: 5, Interesting

    How about 'all of the above.'

    The Saudis have a stated policy of pumping the oil while it is still valuable. They expect technology to make oil obsolete in 100 years or so. Even plastic feed stock can come from plants. That said; I'm not sure I believe them.

    They also claim to have about 200 years worth of oil and the lowest costs in the world. If all that is true, then they should pump like mad. The market will find a new equilibrium, if some nations can't turn a profit at that price, that is not the Saudi's problem. Everybody involved understands sunk costs though.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  11. Re:WHO forced them? by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And the fact that $100/barrel oil and $4.00/gallon gasoline means that consumers have a strong incentive to look at alternate forms of energy. Houses get built that don't use "home heating oil" for their furnaces, cars that are increasingly fuel efficient become more popular, and some car buyers actually look at their driving patterns to see if electrics can meet their needs.

    If oil remains expensive for the long-term, oil finds its customer base slowly evaporating, until a tipping-point is reached where economies of scale suddenly make the new stuff even more practical, and as that happens, politicians start seeing an opportunity to restrict the manufacture of new products that operate the old way, and then the oil market shrinks even further.

    I'm not saying that internal combustion engines in cars would go away quickly as soon as extremely cheap electric cars come into production, but look at the number of cars still on the road that lack airbags, or that lack antilock brakes, or that have carburetors instead of some form of fuel injection. It takes less than fifteen years for the bulk of cars on the road to no longer have the older technology once the new one is standard, and less than 20 years for the old way to be legitimately rare. That's the danger the oil producers face with $100/barrel oil, that the car companies will start making electrics due to customer demand, and that more and more customers will like them and buy them.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  12. Re:WHO forced them? by wiredlogic · · Score: 2

    They expect technology to make oil obsolete in 100 years or so.

    Which makes you wonder why they're doing fuck all to develop a non-oil-based economy. Eventually they're not going to be able to buy off their unemployed young men or divert them all to a lifetime of study in madrassas.

    --
    I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
  13. Re:WHO forced them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They are diversifying by buying assets in the US. When the oil finishes they (Saudi elite)will move to the US and leave the Saudi population to wallow in misery. This is not a democracy we are talking about here

  14. Outing racism by mi · · Score: 4, Funny

    It sounds like you're bitching about a certain group that was recently the victim of police violence.

    Ah! He got me, he got me! Please, please, do not report my thought-crime to the authorities — I'll do anything!..

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  15. Ballistic missile deception no longer affordable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Iran's real purpose here never was spaceflight.

    It was improving their ballistic missiles. Making them more accurate, have longer ranges, etc. So they could drop payloads on Israel, Europe, or even America.

    Launching satellites, animals, or even astronauts into space is a great coverup for ballistic missile research.

    Even the New York Times, not exactly a hotbed of right-wing reactionary fervor, noted that Iran's space program was basically a sham:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/09/world/middleeast/launching-site-in-iran-raises-missile-worries.html

    But with Iran's economy already hurting from sanctions, and now probably in free fall from the oil price implosion, this dream of theirs is not currently affordable.

    GOOD.

  16. Bad article by Superdarion · · Score: 2

    The blog from the summary cites no sources. Hell, they don't even hint at where they get their information. The other link to a story is a rehash of the blog post. The others are unrelated to the main story.

    And in case you're wondering, the blog post doesn't say why they quit or what does "quitting" mean. One can assume from the text (though it doesn't actually say it) that the main space agency was disbanded by the government, but that's all. Why? Who knows!

    This is some high-quality journalism here.

  17. Reasoning.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Apparently they've had issues sourcing large cardboard boxes.

  18. Re:WHO forced them? by GNious · · Score: 2

    Best I can tell, based on US Pro-Republican/Anti-Obama images I'm receiving online, the Saudis have absolutely nothing to do with the drop in oil-prices; it is all due to the Republicans being elected into Congress and having changed all laws to be pro-US instead of pro-Islam.

  19. Saudi copes with low prices for at least 8 yrs by amplesand · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From http://www.bbc.com/news/busine...

    "Saudi Arabia can cope with low oil prices for "at least eight years", Saudi Arabia's minister of petroleum's former senior adviser has told the BBC. Mohammed al-Sabban said the country's policy was to defend its current market share by enduring low prices. "You need to allow prices to go as low as possible in order to see those marginal producers move out of the market," he said."

    Eight happy years!

    http://www.theweek.co.uk/busin...

    "The dramatic fall in the oil price will spur the UK economy to grow faster than had been predicted this year, according to influential forecaster the EY ITEM Club."

    Yo-hoo

  20. The thing about space programs by Kuroji · · Score: 2

    Is that they're great to simultaneously develop accurate ICBMs.

    Iran no longer having a space program means that its neighbors in the region don't have to worry about missiles being developed under such a banner, at least; anything they develop will be made for military use. Also possibly badly photoshopped.

  21. Re:WHO forced them? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Best I can tell, based on US Pro-Republican/Anti-Obama images I'm receiving online, the Saudis have absolutely nothing to do with the drop in oil-prices; it is all due to the Republicans being elected into Congress and having changed all laws to be pro-US instead of pro-Islam.

    Of course the falling prices are due to the Republican win! Why, just in the last two weeks since the Republicans took office, even the length of the day is getting longer after the long _black_ night of Obama's Winter. Mark my words, though, these sunny days won't last. I predict that, if Obama is still in office in six months, that the entire country will start to get colder and darker.
    http://earthsky.org/earth/everything-you-need-to-know-december-solstice

  22. Re:Saudi copes with low prices for at least 8 yrs by Greyfox · · Score: 2
    I remember when those fuckers (OPEC) were terrified to let it go over $25 a barrel. It's not "low" now. It's just low enough to fuck over the competition from fracking wells in North America. Maybe if they keep it where it is for two or three years, the current round of investors in North American fracking companies will lose a fuck-ton of money and be a little more shy about investing in the technology next time OPEC lets it spike up.

    They let it run a little too long this time, though. Hybrids and electrics have had a chance to get a foothold in the market, and some people are already starting to think about how pure electric vehicles and ones with fuel cells could potentially change how electric grids work. It wouldn't take a very big push for countries to start adopting electric vehicles powered with Clean Atomic Energy. And that'll plunge us into the next ice age lickety split, once global warming starts to reverse. Hah, didn't see THAT coming, did you?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?