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Interior of Burnt Herculaneum Scroll Read For First Time

New submitter Solandri writes: When Mt. Vesuvius erupted in A.D. 79, it destroyed a library of classical works in Herculaneum. The papyrus scrolls weren't incinerated, but were instead carbonized by the hot gases. The resulting black carbon cylinders have mostly withstood attempts to read their contents since their discovery. Earlier attempts to unfurl the scrolls yielded some readable material, but were judged too destructive. Researchers decided to wait for newer technology to be invented that could read the scrolls without unrolling them.

Now, a team led by Dr. Vito Mocella from the National Research Council's Institute for Microelectronics and Microsystems (CNR-IMM) in Naples, Italy has managed to read individual letters inside one of the scrolls. Using a form of x-ray phase contrast tomography (abstract), they were able to ascertain the height difference (about 0.1mm) between the ink of the letters and the papyrus fibers which they sat upon. Due to the fibrous nature of the papyrus and the carbon-based ink, regular spectral and chemical analysis had thus far been unable to distinguish the ink from the paper. Further complicating the work, the scrolls are not in neat cylinders, but squashed and ruffled as the hot gases vaporized water in the papyrus and distorted the paper.

66 comments

  1. Primum scribee / first post by jblues · · Score: 5, Funny

    The scrolls were found to contain long-winded, mostly irrational arguments regarding the contents of another (unseen) scroll. Each began with the phrase: 'primum scribe'

    --
    If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    1. Re:Primum scribee / first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      More likely 'pmirum scirbe'

    2. Re:Primum scribee / first post by mythosaz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Odd. I thought the recovered text started Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet.

    3. Re:Primum scribee / first post by Tablizer · · Score: 0

      The scrolls were found to contain long-winded, mostly irrational arguments regarding the contents of another (unseen) scroll...

      Cool, slashdot 0.001
       

    4. Re:Primum scribee / first post by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 4, Funny

      The scrolls were found to contain long-winded, mostly irrational arguments regarding the contents of another (unseen) scroll.

      They need to set the x-ray phase contrast imaging device to scan at -1 to see hidden scrolls...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    5. Re: Primum scribee / first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fascinating! Any idea what this translates to?

    6. Re: Primum scribee / first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's a rant about systemd.

    7. Re: Primum scribee / first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... what this translates to?

      I can't find a translation so I suspect it's random phrases like Walter Matthau does in 'California suite' (the 1978 production). See here.

    8. Re: Primum scribee / first post by mythosaz · · Score: 2
    9. Re:Primum scribee / first post by HairyNevus · · Score: 1

      Still more readable than beta!

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    10. Re:Primum scribee / first post by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      They also contained the only known full and complete edition of "The Lusty Oplontian Maid."

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    11. Re: Primum scribee / first post by pnutjam · · Score: 1
    12. Re:Primum scribee / first post by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the old days, style sheets were actually sheets.

  2. The only readable phrase so far by sinij · · Score: 0, Redundant

    The only readable phrase so far translates to "Never gonna..."

    What could this possibly mean? We will have to wait until the rest of the text is scanned and translated.

    1. Re: The only readable phrase so far by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you telling me we got roll'd nearly two thousand years prior to YouTube? Bunch of hipsters...

    2. Re:The only readable phrase so far by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      You're not going back far enough.

      The most recent scroll has only a small fragment deciphered so far.

      It says "Move 'ZIG'".

    3. Re:The only readable phrase so far by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Funny

      They called it being "Rick Scrolled" back then.

  3. And they found... by grub · · Score: 0

    ... the oldest goatse in history.

    --
    Trolling is a art,
    1. Re:And they found... by Grog6 · · Score: 1

      Modern ones are Much larger; I could provide a link if you'd like... :)

      --
      Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    2. Re:And they found... by RDW · · Score: 4, Interesting

      ... the oldest goatse in history.

      They already found that: http://blogs.artinfo.com/artin...

      "A statue of the Roman half-goat, half-man god Pan - who was the Greeks' god of the wild - getting wild with a female goat (see above) has proven so NSFW (or, in this case, NSFM) that the British Museum has placed a parental advisory in the gallery where it will be on view as part of the upcoming exhibition 'Life and Death in Pompeii and Herculaneum.' The statue was excavated from beneath some 100 feet of Volcanic ash that enveloped the Villa of the Papyri, the residence of Julius Caesar's father-in-law Lucius Calpurnius Piso Caesoninus, on the slope Mount Vesuvius."

  4. Science Fiction as Fact... by Grog6 · · Score: 0

    There was a James P. Hogan story that involved reading a 50,000 year old book with such a scanner.

    1978 or so, I think...

    --
    Truth isn't Truth - Guliani
    1. Re:Science Fiction as Fact... by Jhon · · Score: 0

      SURE there was... And I bet they found it on the moon, too. Geez. Crazy talk.

    2. Re:Science Fiction as Fact... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      Only in the book they were using neutrinos, I think. Lotsa luck with that...

  5. initial translation of the text by Tumbleweed · · Score: 5, Funny

    "If you don't copy this scroll and send it to ten people within the next 24 hours, you will die in a volcano eruption!"

    1. Re:initial translation of the text by chipschap · · Score: 1

      I think the scrolls warned about global warming. Fortunately, Al Gore was able to recover their content for the benefit of all mankind.

    2. Re:initial translation of the text by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the scrolls warned about global warming. Fortunately, Al Gore was able to recover their content for the benefit of all mankind.

      Maybe if the ancient Vesuvians were a little more mindful of global warming, they wouldn't have been *incinerated*.

  6. Transcribed... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Drink all your Ovaltine.

  7. Elect that dude prez by Tablizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Earlier attempts to unfurl the scrolls yielded some readable material, but were judged too destructive. Researchers decided to wait for newer technology to be invented that could read the scrolls without unrolling them.

    Wow, somebody actually planned ahead instead of dived in face first making a mess to get first publishing credit.

    There is hope for (some of) humanity after all.

    1. Re:Elect that dude prez by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Others practiced "Archeology" before rigerous Practices were developed.

      Digging up Stuff was a nice pasttime once in England. Who needs Metainformation about found Stuff anyway?

    2. Re:Elect that dude prez by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      It's fairly standard practise to leave stuff in the ground until better technology comes along, as far as archaeology goes.

  8. Lies! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its said: "Drink your Ovaltine!"

  9. This is incredibly exciting by Headw1nd · · Score: 4, Informative

    Many people don't realize just how few classical texts actually have survived. The total volume of ancient Latin and Greek texts we have available to us is probably a little less than the volume of a middle school library. There are dozens of famous classical authors who we only know of from references by other authors, as none of their work survives. The chance to have new literature from that world, untouched by translation or transcription, is incredible.

    1. Re:This is incredibly exciting by PRMan · · Score: 5, Informative

      The New Testament is very common with 5,000 Greek copies (and all within 400 years of the events, some within 100 years). But after that it drops off quickly. There are 643 copies of Homer's Iliad, but the closest to his writing is over 500 years. There are only 20 copies of Tacitus, but the closest is 1,000 years later. We have only 7 copies of Plato and 5 of Aristotle.

      All that to say we might find something incredibly significant in this library. Something we have never had before or something that is a much older copy of something that we already have against which we can check accuracy.

      --
      Peter predicted that you would "deliberately forget" creation 2000 years ago...
    2. Re:This is incredibly exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      It may be a bit more than exciting.

      The historian/ linguist in me wants to read such scrolls. However, given what I know about those two towns I am expecting it to be something like...

      You won't believe what happened to me yesterday I was just lounging around the atrium naked when my servant informed me there was a real hunk delivering pizza, not just one in fact, but twins...

    3. Re: This is incredibly exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that based on what has been deciphered from these scrolls so far, the excavated portion of the library seems to have been devoted to rather inconsequential works of neo-epicurean philosophy. There is speculation that the unexcavated portions might house works on other subjects, but so far, no lost "classics" appear to be present. Interesting, yes, but unlikely to be earth shattering.

    4. Re:This is incredibly exciting by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Aristophanes wrote 36 comedies, of which 11 exist today. No idea how many are originals, or copies of copies, or translations of translations.

    5. Re:This is incredibly exciting by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      Exciting indeed. Wasn't there a case a few years back of someone finding a lost book of Aristotle that had been recycled as a prayer book? Paper wasn't cheap in those days. I wonder how many more finds like that are out there...

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    6. Re:This is incredibly exciting by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Most of the stuff Sophocles wrote isn't around anymore either. He supposedly wrote 123 plays of which 7 survived.

    7. Re:This is incredibly exciting by triffid_98 · · Score: 1

      I believe you're thinking of vellum, which is parchment made from animal hide, not paper.
      It was fairly common to scrape the pages blank and write over the existing texts. In some cases fragments of the original texts can be retrieved, but obviously that's fairly hit and miss.

    8. Re:This is incredibly exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apparently most of the writings in this particular villa deal with the philosophy of Epicureanism which sees pleasure as the highest principle. In essence a form of hedonism, albeit somewhat more high minded than the modern meaning of that term. It's likely that the scrolls were collected as part of a library of a wealthy family who subscribed to this philosophy or wished to have their children tutored in it. Epicureanism was originally formulated as a challenge to Platonism, so it's unlikely that unknown works from Plato or Aristotle will be found amongst the scrolls of what was once the private library of a wealthy hedonist.

    9. Re:This is incredibly exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >The New Testament is very common with 5,000 Greek copies (and all within 400 years of the events, some within 100 years)

      No. The gospels, some of which were selected for the New Testament, are "common" in that many hundreds of copies exist, but many of them are different versions and with different text. Each author often modified the text. We have no idea whether there was even an original. And 400 years is many many lifetimes after the fact. It is like you writing a book about the New World Adventurers today, it would be entirely based on stories passed down from stories.

    10. Re:This is incredibly exciting by Talderas · · Score: 1

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

      The narrow range for that fragment is 117 to 138 CE although it could be from prior to 100 CE or after 150 CE. Jesus's death was between 30 - 36 CE is the generally accepted range for the death. Within a 100 years of the event is not an unreasonable statement to make when it comes to the Gospels.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  10. Bah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    every fifth letter put together says "Our Youngest Oracle's father is the doctor after next"

    complete nonsense.

  11. They found something else. by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

    One of the images they've recovered literally says "HEY".

    No, really.

  12. I wonder if the NSA has this technology by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would allow them to read all the contents of regular letters mailed inside envelopes, without opening the envelopes.

    1. Re:I wonder if the NSA has this technology by russotto · · Score: 1

      It would allow them to read all the contents of regular letters mailed inside envelopes, without opening the envelopes.

      That's much easier (typically only three layers of paper and the envelope, and not burnt), so yes.

    2. Re:I wonder if the NSA has this technology by AK+Marc · · Score: 3, Informative

      They just open the letter. They don't care if you know you are being watched. Everyone is being watched. The "problem" with the scrolls is that opening them destroys them.

  13. The message in the scroll by jager2222 · · Score: 0

    Disappointing after all this research that the message they found inside was "Be sure to drink your Ovaltine."

  14. It's a shame ... by PPH · · Score: 2

    ... they didn't have this technology available when shrink-wrap licenses were all the rage.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  15. Water? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    Just soak 'em in water.

    1. Re: Water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already are. The site they were recovered from is below the water table.

  16. can't they just de-carbonize the scrolls? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Like they did to Han in Return of the Jedi?

  17. And the scroll said... by omems · · Score: 2

    D r i n k...m o r e...O v a l t i n e

    1. Re:And the scroll said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kill yourself. That joke hasn't been funny or original for decades.

  18. No wonder.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Earlier attempts to unfurl the scrolls yielded some readable material, but were judged too destructive.

    unfurl. verb: to shake out from a furled state, as a sail or a flag

    Maybe if they just tried to gently unroll them they might have had better luck.

    1. Re:No wonder.. by cstacy · · Score: 1

      Earlier attempts to unfurl the scrolls yielded some readable material, but were judged too destructive.

      unfurl. verb: to shake out from a furled state, as a sail or a flag

      Maybe if they just tried to gently unroll them they might have had better luck.

      Chakka, when the walls fell

    2. Re:No wonder.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The river Tembra in winter!

  19. Science. It works, (censored) by c0d3g33k · · Score: 1
  20. When they succees in reading them... by NoseBag · · Score: 1

    ...They'll probably discover that they are nothing more than a rich child's dirty limerick collection.

    --
    Cloned foods give the statement "We had that last week!" a whole new meaning.
    1. Re:When they succees in reading them... by Ambvai · · Score: 0

      Which is effectively what half of Shakespeare is...

  21. JPHogan's first book: Inherit the Stars (1977) by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 2

    Big spoilers in Wikipedia beyond context: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    "In the introduction to the omnibus edition The Two Moons, Hogan revealed that the first book, Inherit the Stars, was inspired by a viewing of the film 2001: A Space Odyssey, which he enjoyed until the ending. Complaining about what he saw as the confusing, effects-heavy conclusion at work afterwards, each of his colleagues bet him five pounds that he couldn't write and publish a science-fiction novel. The result was Inherit the Stars, which was published by Del Rey Books in May 1977. He later asked Arthur C. Clarke about the meaning of the ending of 2001, to which Clarke reportedly replied that while the ending of Hogan's Inherit the Stars made more sense, the ending of 2001 made more money."

    The scanner is what draws in the main character into the whole plot, since the space agency ultimately wants to use it to scan the equipment of a 50,000 year old space-suited human corpse found on the moon, but then the main character's involvement builds from there.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  22. Bonus! by gophther · · Score: 1

    Now the DEA can take burnt up old roaches from a stoner's ashtray and find what brand of rolling paper they use! Federal tax dollars well spent!

    1. Re:Bonus! by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      or they could simply ask

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  23. THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    :-)

  24. Please pickup by trevc · · Score: 0

    Milk Eggs Bread TP