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Calif. DMV Back-Pedals On Commercial-Plate Mandate For Ride-Share Drivers

The San Francisco Chronicle reports that In an abrupt U-turn, the California Department of Motor Vehicles late Friday retracted its finding that drivers for ride-hailing services like Uber, Lyft and Sidecar must obtain commercial license plates. That determination — based on a 1935 state law — ignited a firestorm of criticism from the San Francisco startups and their supporters as stifling innovation. Commercial licenses are cumbersome to obtain, meaning they could impede the companies’ growth, which relies on getting new drivers, many of whom work just part time, into service quickly. And commercial registration probably would have necessitated that drivers get commercial insurance, which is significantly more expensive than personal auto insurance. Republican Assembly members threatened legislation over the “nonsensical” interpretation if the DMV didn’t reconsider its stance before Feb. 17. Now the department says it will do just that. That doesn't mean drivers for companies like Uber and Lyft can expect to be left alone by the DMV, though, which according to the article "will meet with regulators and the industry to work through the issue."

13 of 216 comments (clear)

  1. Insurance by Rei · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why, exactly, should Uber drivers get to drive passengers using regular non-commercial drivers' insurance? Commercial insurance costs more because people who drive people around for a living are much more likely to cost the insurance companies more money. If you're letting them drive on non-commercial licenses than that means that regular drivers are subsidizing Uber-drivers.

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    1. Re:Insurance by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I once drove some of my daughter's friends home from a birthday party. Should I have had to have a commercial driver's license?

      How much were you paid?

    2. Re:Insurance by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      That falls into statistically normal usage. Being a commercial driver absolutely does not. Statistically, a commercial driver drives way more than a noncommercial driver, and they're much more likely to be sued, and for more money. It's absurd to argue that they should be able to drive on insurance rates calculated for statistical norms of noncommercial drivers. If you allow that sort of ignoring of statistics then you might as well get rid of all statistical tables period and charge every last person the same rate for all types of insurance.

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    3. Re:Insurance by alen · · Score: 4, Informative

      that's the marketing nonsense from Uber. in reality you are nothing more than a taxi cab except you are using your own car, have no commercial insurance and Uber/Lyft act as the dispatcher instead of some local cab company taking calls

    4. Re:Insurance by Xenx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The difference is the Uber/Lyft drivers are actually employed to do the driving. Realistically, the drivers wouldn't be giving those passengers a ride if they weren't being paid for it. From a personal standpoint, I don't have a problem with the driver not having commercial insurance. However, in that case the company needs to insure the driver when "on duty".

    5. Re:Insurance by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait, I thought it was about the extra risk of driving passengers around.

      No. Commercial licenses are not required for "driving passengers around". They are required for commercial (paid) driving.

      You're saying money changing hands impacts how often the accidents happen?

      No, but money changing hands (commerce) impacts whether it is "commercial", and requires a commercial license. If we aren't going to require commercial licenses for commercial driving, then why even have them at all? Why should taxi drivers need commercial licenses either? Uber/Lyft should be allowed to compete in a fair marketplace, and taxi monopolies should be abolished. But that should not be done by giving them special privileges that taxis don't have. We should not swap one rigged system for another.

    6. Re:Insurance by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So, what's to stop an insurance company from working with the ride share companies to offer up commercial coverage to anyone driving using the company's ride share app? Some smart insurer is going to go down this path and make a lot of money. Certainly, with almost a million drivers, someone like Uber would have the clout to negotiate the lowest commercial rates on the planet. That would be absolutely no different than what taxi unions have been doing for decades, just at a larger scale. The only difference in this case, apparently, is that it's OK when a union working under a gov't sanctioned artificial scarcity (medallions) does it, and absolutely horrific and unfair when an evil corp like Uber does it.

    7. Re:Insurance by kamapuaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But here we sit, arguing about whether people should be able to use their cars as they see fit.
      Except that's not what's being argued. People can still use their cars as they see fit, they just have to pay more for licensing and insurance, to cover the increased road use and insurance liabilities. That sounds a lot more reasonable and realistic then a complete overhaul of the "goddamned" health care service.

      And, Uber isn't a ride-share program where you find people to tag along on your road trip. It's an unlicensed taxi service. I doubt a proliferation of slightly cheaper taxis keeps a non-trivial number of people from purchasing a car of their own.

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    8. Re:Insurance by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      everyone should be held to the same standard while driving, regardless of reason.

      This is nonsense. The whole point of commercial licenses is that professional drivers should, and are, held to a higher standard. If you are only marginally competent, you may be able to keep a class "C" license that allows you to commute to work, but you should not be carrying passengers for hire, or driving big commercial trucks. There is nothing "unfair" about that.

    9. Re:Insurance by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Wait, I thought it was about the extra risk of driving passengers around. You're saying money changing hands impacts how often the accidents happen?

      Increasing the amount of miles you drive on a daily basis will alter the odds you will be in an accident. Being a for hire service makes the odds of a lawsuit higher. So, more time in traffic, more passengers of unknown temperament expecting commercial quality service and protection, no mandated maintenance or inspections. I would expect commercial insurance and drivers license to be a minimum in every state.
      My insurance went up when I reported increasing my miles per year, and I don't have a passenger that will sue on board... I'd also bet there will now be language in your insurance policy that voids all but minimum coverage if you use the vehicle for commercial gain without having previously reported that fact to your insurer. If they write a policy, the type use of the vehicle is stated in the policy, mine has been for years. Non-commercial, no other drivers, under 12,500 miles annually... all in black and white...
      I wonder if Uber drivers insurance policies are already actually void due to fine print.

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  2. read your contract by swell · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your insurance papers will probably make it clear that you are NOT covered for commercial use of your vehicle. Even if you don't read the policy, you know in your heart that commercial drivers pay more than ordinary drivers. Lots of people think they can deceive their insurance carrier and save money. The company gets the last laugh when it's time to pay for a claim. Any deception on the part of the insured is likely to negate the contract and no claim will be awarded. Yes, possibly years of payments to that company and all for nothing because you lied.

    Like the people who watch your credit worthiness and the people who observe you for terrorist tendencies, the insurance industry has vast resources focused on you. If you try to cheat any insurance company, the word is spread and none of them want to deal with you. If you can get insurance it will be very expensive. Honesty is the best policy.

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    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  3. CA requires commercial licenses for pickup trucks. by Ungrounded+Lightning · · Score: 4, Interesting

    No, but money changing hands (commerce) impacts whether it is "commercial", and requires a commercial license.

    "Impacts", perhaps. But it's not definitive. Especially in California.

    For instance: I bought a pickup truck, to use as a tow vehicle for my camper and my wife's boat. Then I discovered that CA requires pickup trucks to be tagged with a (VERY pricey) commercial license, regardless of whether they're used for business. (You CAN petition to tag a particular pickup truck as a personal vehicle - but are then subject to being issued a very pricey ticket if you are ever caught carrying anything in the truck bed - even if it's personal belongings or groceries, and regardless of whether you're being paid to do it. (Since part of the POINT of having a pickup truck is to carry stuff home from the store this would substantially reduce its utility.)

    The one upside is that I get to park for short times in loading zones.

    If we aren't going to require commercial licenses for commercial driving, then why even have them at all?

    And if we ARE going to require them for clearly personal, non-commercial vehicles that happen to be "trucks", why NOT impose this requirement on putatively commercial vehicles that happen to be cars as well?

    The real answer to your question is "because the state wants the tax money, and the legislators and bureaucrats will seek it in any way that doesn't threaten their reelection, reappointment, or election to higher office" - in the most jerrymandered state in the Union. The Uber case is one where an appraent public outcry arose, bringing the bureaucrats' actions, and public outcry about them, to the attention of elected officials.

    The full form of the so-called "Chinese curse" is: "May you live in interesting times and come to the attention of people in high places."

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  4. Re:CA requires commercial licenses for pickup truc by King_TJ · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Wow! Really?!

    That's just one more argument against living in California then.

    IMO, the *real* reason for commercial licenses was the concept that commercial drivers are driving much larger vehicles that require special training/skills to operate safely on the roadways. (Your average licensed driver can't just hop into an 18-wheeler and operate it. They'd likely not even be able to figure out the transmission with as many gear as it has!) And the ability to properly back one up into a loading dock isn't something that comes without training either.

    A vehicle anyone buys at a regular car dealership and uses as a "daily driver" for things like commuting or trips to the grocery store should NOT require a commercial license.

    The states ALL want tax revenue, but there are ways to go about it that make relative degrees of common sense to citizens. When they start making unreasonable, illogical demands, it's time to get that changed or consider moving to a more reasonable place.