Tech Companies Worried Over China's New Rules For Selling To Banks

An anonymous reader writes: China is putting into place a new set of regulations for how banks interact with technology, and it has many companies worried. While the rules might enhance security for the Chinese government, they devastate it for everyone else. For example, not only will China require that companies turn over source code for any software sold to banks, the companies building the software (and hardware) must also build back doors into their systems. The bad news for us is that most companies can't afford to simply refuse the rules and write China off. Tech industry spending is estimated to reach $465 billion in 2015, and it's projected for a huge amount of growth.

Comments

Painted target

[reanjr]

Those Chinese banks are going to be the target of a huge amount of hacking. It's like an invitation. We've built a way for you to take over our system. Please try and find it.

Re:Painted target

[Altus]

do you really think that the banks in the rest of the world wont have the same back doors? Even if they don't, any flaws they do have will be exposed to whomever gets their hands on the source provided to the Chinese (here is a hint, most of those people are probably not going to responsibly report the flaws so this is not a case of many eyes resulting in more secure code, but a few eyes finding ways to compromise code).

I know the article says that these companies can't afford to ignore china, but really, if they all got together and said no, could china really afford that? They could always make their own banking software I suppose. Why don't we let them?

Re:Painted target

[Captain Splendid]

I know the article says that these companies can't afford to ignore china

Well, big companies, like MS, Apple, Oracle, etc.

When you run a small (or more local) business, one of the nice things is being able to avoid certain markets and customers. In fact, unless your future growth (and corresponding funding) aren't a lock, you have to avoid them because all they'll do is destroy your business.

So if the big boys have to jump through ridiculous hoops in order to keep those profit margins sky-high, fuck 'em. That's how the game works.

Re:Painted target

[gstoddart]

Because globalization is the directive, and you can't think this way and be a globalist.

And what evidence do we have the globalization helps anybody except corporations who fuck the rest of us over in the process?

Everybody acts like globalization is a good thing ... and unless you're a multinational corporation, I have yet to be convinced that's true.

H1B visas are just large corporations cheating the system by bringing in cheaper labor from other countries.

I'm of the opinion that globalization is a crock, championed by those who make money from it, and which comes at the expense of everybody else.

Re:Painted target

[hodet]

Ahh....thank you. A thousand times this. They could always....say no!

Re:Painted target

[Em Adespoton]

...until the point where that one company has its software totally pwned, all source code released to the public, and an overproportionate number of security holes and backdoors found.

Suddenly, they're an industry pariah, not just because they were a scab, but because nobody can trust their prioduct anymore. The short term profit is not sustainable.

Re:Painted target

[Bob the Super Hamste]

Hey not all globalization is bad. I personally like German cars, Swiss mechanical watch movement, French cheese and digestifs, Indian silk rugs, British TV, Swedish tools, Japanese and Korean electronics, Dutch toys, large Nepali knives, and Canadian winter boots. What I don't like is the race to the bottom type of globalization that seems to be happening with cheap crap products made to increase profits and would prefer globalization where it is a race to the top in quality.

I don't like what I have seen with the quality going down on what once were great things because someone thought they could save a few cents per item by shipping manufacturing overseas. For example when I looked at small wire feed welders there were a bunch of highly questionable cut every corner ones around the $100 price point and in researching them they might work out of the box for some definitions of work and would likely fail in fairly short order all of which were made in China. From there to the one I got there was nothing but I ended up getting the smallest Hobart that while they cut corners (no thermal switch for the fan so it run all the time and the gas kit was separate but could be added if you didn't want to use flux core wire) it cost ~$270 on sale but came with a great warranty, was made in the US, is heavy as hell, and worked out of the box flawlessly for years.

Reuse the code

[sinij]

No additional development is required, just reuse the code that was written for NSA backdoors.

Thanks NSA and others

[houghi]

This is what you get for spying on each and everybody and infiltrating everything. So now they distrust everybody and (rightfully) are asking for the source.

The result will be that they then will have the source and will do their own improvement and not coming back for more. This basically means that they can do one more deal by selling the software and then they will start selling the software themselves (including the backdoors)

So the wise thing would be NOT to sell anything. However if just one company will sell, they are all lost.

I am not even worried about the backdoor, because that was in there already.

The next will be that they ask the source code for other software as well (Microsoft anybody?)

I don't get it

[oodaloop]

They want the source code and backdoors written in? Why not write your own backdoors?

I'm sorry ...

[gstoddart]

Sorry, but am I meant to believe the US government doesn't also insist on backdoors?

Because they pretty blatantly want backdoors in crypto and everything else.

So let's not pretend it's just China doing this ... every damned government is insisting on this crap.

And, really:

With these new regulations, foreign companies and business groups worry that authorities may be trying to push them out of the fast-growing market. According to the Times, the groups -- which include the US Chamber of Commerce -- sent a letter Wednesday to a top-level Communist Party committee, criticizing the new policies that they say essentially amount to protectionism.

Boo frickin' hoo. You think China gives a crap about a stern letter from the US Chamber of Commerce? Or that they care if you have access to their markets?

Other than that's the only way they can keep expanding indefinitely, what makes corporations feel like they're entitled to be in any market?

I'm betting a bunch of the companies involved in this collective hand-wringing are already enabling the US government to have access through other backdoors -- so don't pretend it's even more terrible when China does it.

If America is so concerned about backdoors and exploits in Chinese made products ... make 'em yourselves.

American companies need to stop acting like they can tell countries where they do business what they're willing to do. Suck it up, you want access to the market you play by the rules. Just like they would have to do to do business in the US.

I hear this crap and I just hear "Waaah, how are we to make a profit if you impose rules on us, woe is us, how will be maximize executive bonuses if there are rules?"

Re:Sure they can

[gstoddart]

Easy answer: don't trust any of them.

You'll be far less disappointed by assuming all corporations and government are lying, self-serving bastards who don't give a fuck about you, and will happily climb over you to get what they want.

It's probably not far from the truth.

One-Way street

[Virtucon]

doing business with the PRC is a One-Way street, they'll absorb your technology, your techniques and your skills and will saturate your markets to kill off your own industries. We're in a war folks, it's time people woke up to that fact and stopped treating the Chinese Government as friendly.

Give up the source? Ain't gonna happen

[sirwired]

China can ask for the source, but I don't see any US firm agreeing. They certainly wouldn't care about China-only builds having back-doors; that I'm sure they'd agree to. But giving up the source? No way. If they do that, they know that the code will quickly be incorporated into products from Chinese companies and their sales will drop soon afterwards as the thieves sell their own versions for far less.

I wonder what the motive is

[ErichTheRed]

OSS stuff like Linux and xBSD is already out there, and they can build their own back doors. Microsoft already gives companies and governments access to the source code for its products. I guess the mainframe providers (IBM, Fujitsu, etc.) are the only ones left that this would affect. That, and the network device manufacturers...I could definitely see Huawei getting a boost by being the only network device manufacturer allowed to sell to Chinese banks.

I guess the question is why -- every country on earth spies on every other country and its own citizens. So, it's probably being done to boost domestic companies. One of the things that's really going to make China come out on top this century is their ability to do stuff like this...it's one of their greatest strengths. If they decide they want to do something, it's done with zero debate. Their big overarching project right now is a massive urbanization project -- just picking up millions of rural peasants and physically moving them to cities. Can you imagine the US or a European country trying something like that? It would never work, look how much people complain when a local government uses eminent domain to build a road or public works project.

The summary is right though - companies can't ignore China. There are billions of people and a huge growing middle class, all with the full will of their government pushing through whatever is needed. There are always possible bumps in the road, but I'm assuming China will be the dominant superpower in a couple of decades just because they can make stuff happen that we can't/won't.

Write different software for China

[Nyder]

Write different software for China and suggest to the rest of the world that they never use the Chinese version of the software.

Problem solved.