Dell Continues Shipping Fresh Linux Laptops

jones_supa writes: In its latest move, Dell will be bringing Ubuntu 14.04 LTS to its top-of-the-line Precision M3800 workstation laptop and the latest model of the Dell XPS 13. Both systems will be running Ubuntu 14.04.1. According to Barton George, Dell's Director of Developer Programs, programmers had been asking for a better, officially-supported Ubuntu developer laptop. This came about from a combination of the efforts of Dell software engineer Jared Dominguez and enthusiastic feedback. Specs of M3800: 15.6" LCD @ 3840x2160, Intel i7 quad core CPU, NVIDIA Quadro GPU, up to 16 GB RAM. The bad news is, as Dominguez explained on his blog, this version of the M3800 doesn't support its built-in Thunderbolt 2 port out of the box. However, thanks to the hardware-enablement stack in Ubuntu, starting with upcoming Ubuntu 14.04.2, you will be able to upgrade your kernel to add some Thunderbolt support.

Comments

XPS 13 works great

[rfengr]

I have a 2014 model of the XPS 13 and it runs Fedora seamlessly, including hibernation, camera, and touch screen. Yet it was still cheaper to buy an windows 8 version of the XPS 13 from microcenter and wipe it, rather than the preloaded developer edition from Dell.

Re:XPS 13 works great

[hairyfeet]

Of course it is because when you get Windows you don't have a "MSFT tax" you have a "MSFT tax BREAK" that so few FOSS users seem to be able to grasp!

Look its REALLY simple, 1.- Somebody who buys bulk (in the case of MSFT bulk is defined as over 10K licenses) gets Windows MUCH cheaper, last figures I saw was between $0-$50 depending on version and device, 2.- the OEMs then GET PAID to put trial versions (or in the case of Google their toolbars and browser) on the install image, 3.- When combined with the discount this can often make putting Windows on the system a money EARNER instead of a cost,4.- You have the economies of scale on the Windows side which Linux doesn't and finally, 5.- LINUX COSTS MONEY to the OEM because they have to keep their own custom version of a distro (which they have to pay developers to maintain) because otherwise updates can shit all over their drivers. Before any FOSSies poo poos this idea because "Linux doesn't shit on drivers, you're a liar Hairyfeet" I would point out Dell has been having to deal with the piss poor Linux driver model for many years and just as i have seen how badly the driver model really is and therefor has NO choice but to keep their own distro, at a not inconsiderate cost, just to keep users from screaming "update foo broke my drivers!"

So this is why Linux will ALWAYS be more expensive than Windows, because if you look at total cost to the OEM for going with Linux over Windows? Windows is the cheaper alternative. Its less brittle, doesn't require you to have your own fork, the OEM doesn't have to pay a dev team to update its drivers constantly, it can place trialware on the system. Linux is only "free" if your time is worth nothing and for OEMs this is simply not the case.

Re:XPS 13 works great

[Teun]

I'm no expert on the subject but from experience I'd imagine using hardware that complies with standards should prevent most of these issues?

At least it works for my Lenovo's with nVidia.

Re:XPS 13 works great

[hairyfeet]

Because drivers for consumer hardware (even shitty drivers like Linux has) simply doesn't exist? As I have said for years Linux is a SERVER OS but even so you have a group of hardcore FOSSies that reverse engineer drivers for consumer gear, that simply does not exist in BSD land. BSD is even more hardcore server oriented so the amount of drivers for consumer gear is just microscopic which translates into a LOT of service calls and returned devices when they find that while their shitty consumer AIO printer may only print in Linux it won't even be recognized in BSD, same with the USB wireless sticks, digital cameras, the drivers simply aren't there.

So while I agree 1000% that BSD is a better OS simply because unlike Linus' trainwreck of a driver model BSD has a sane driver ABI and therefor doesn't have an eternal case of the driver shits BSD just doesn't have the consumer grade hardware support required, I wish it did.

Of course the fact that Windows is going to give out free upgrades means what little support outside the religiously fanatical FOSSies is gonna blow away like a fart in the breeze and that is that.

Re:XPS 13 works great

[unixisc]

So that's what I was saying. Dell used to have a small group of devs who wrote Linux drivers. They could do the same here for PCBSD/FreeBSD. Difference from the earlier situation - maybe unbeknownst to them - is that unlike Linux, where the drivers broke w/ the next iteration of the OS, in the BSD case, it won't, for the reasons you mentioned. In short, Dell would only have to write those drivers ONCE, and that's it. Also, PCBSD is not 64-bit only, so they won't have to bother about 32 vs 64 bit support.

Re:Hardware enablement?

[armanox]

Ubuntu, like Red Hat, tries to keep the version of components the same for the life of a (LTS) release as not to risk breaking compatibility and application certification. Fedora's kernel updates can occasionally break things, and not breaking compatibility is very important for a long term release. (Compare Ubuntu LTS to RHEL or SuSE Enterprise)

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[Billly Gates]

USB vs Thunderbolt = VHS vs Betamax. VHS more widespread due to it being cheaper yet betamax won in video production by being superior. Same with Thunderbolt.

Thunderbolt is Sony/Apple competitior to the original USB. It is higher performing with I/O bound to the host vs in the peripherals of the original USB design. It was more expensive so USB won but due to its superior bandwidth and processing it is used for ilink/thunderbolt video cameras, vga dongles, and ethernet.

Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface and any Apple product to connect vga, ethernet, dvd, HDMI, video cameras, and other dongles. Mac users use them too. USB 2?? Well it can't handle these well or at all.

My coworker has a surfacepro 2 which has a Thunderbolt for his ethernet adapter. He is the network guru at my site and uses it with wireshark and some cisco app. A laptop it too bulky and breaks too easily and has crappy batter life. His Surface he can use any thunderbolt adapter for HDMI video. I hated Windows 8 and the surface like most slashdotters but it opened my eyes.

Anyway USB 3.1 may be able to compete but thunderbolt has had this for many years and it used for video professionals and those who need high bandwidth devices.

Linux actually a radio button option for a change

[rklrkl]

It's nice to see that Dell have put Linux as an OS option right next to WIndows (and $101 cheaper than Windows too). A bit strange for them to ship a Linux release that initially has no Thunderbolt support, though I suspect not many people use Thunderbolt-only hardware outside of the Apple ecosystem.

Defaults to an HDD in the config options which is also weird, especially since it appears to have 2 drive bays, so surely you'd want an SSD in there in one of the bays?

The higher res screen is only a $70 bump, so it would appear to be a no-brainer to pick that option. If the final price wasn't so eye-wateringly high (and me being in the UK probably means it'll either not appear on the UK dell site or be a dollar to pound conversion), it would be an attractive high-end Linux laptop.

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[Anonymous Coward]

You just compared USB and Firewire, not thunderbolt.

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[ShanghaiBill]

USB vs Thunderbolt = VHS vs Betamax.

You can run multiple USB connections over a single Thunderbolt, so it makes USB work better, rather than replacing it. You can also use Thunderbolt to daisychain multiple monitors, disk drives, network connections, etc. It has a bandwidth of 20Gbps. It is the standard connector on Apple computers, and is becoming more widely adopted by other vendors.

Why Thunderbolt?

[Groo Wanderer]

Why would you want Thunderbolt again? It is a badly broken (IE doesn't actually do what is promised like channel bonding and a few other things that are sort of fixed in VERY recent silicon), costs far too much, forces the use of painfully expensive active cables, and only passes PCIe or video. This last bit is problematic because if you want any functionality on the other end of the cable, you need to add full controllers there too, think expensive and wasteful of power. In essence you are hot-plugging controllers with the cable, and while it works in theory....

TB is a badly broken spec from day one, it was meant as a control point for Intel to force the use of it's silicon in phones.mobile by replacing USB with something only it could provide. Needless to say the market saw through this and didn't adopt it in droves, sans the few that drank from the Intel money hose. The second the hose was shut off, so was the design wins.

The main reason that USB3 had such a slow start was because Intel was desperate to kill it to promote TB. Since Intel had control over the USB3 cert process, things went might slow for technical minutia that would easily pass by previous spec certs. Coincidence? Nope.

TB is a bad idea on technical, cost, lock-in, and many many other reasons, not working correctly ever being a key one there. Delivered silicon is a joke, there is and always will be one supplier, and progress is glacial. USB3.1 on the other hand beats it like a drum in every regard other than single channel throughput.

Why do I want to pay for this in my next laptop again?

                  -Charlie

Re:Why Thunderbolt?

[Billly Gates]

Because slim laptops may not have DVD, HDMI/VGA output, and some tablets like the MS Surface do not have ethernet either. Only Thunderbolt can do this. USB 3.1 may change this but it is not finished.

They are essential for plugging into projects for presentations, linking up video cameras (this laptop is a workstation grade one so it has this use), ethernet (I didn't see if this is netbook with an ethernet or not), and can do HDMI as well for hi resolution presentations which again it has a QUADRO so engineers and video editors are the target besides software developers.

My coworker with a MS surface 2 is our network guru for the site. He plugs in his thunderbolt ethernet controller to wireshark and use a Cisco program for port scanning instead of a bulky laptop with limited battery life. I want to buy one as a result and without thunderbolt it is a toy.

You complain about specs and costs. I mention it has benefits besides its quirks for consumers and non engineers. Yes it is pricier but it does more and this is a high end developer or engineer workstation grade laptop.

Re:Why Thunderbolt?

[jedidiah]

> Because slim laptops may not have DVD, HDMI/VGA output,

Simple. Buy LESS LAME hardware.

The only thing Thunderbolt does that USB does not is passthrough of the display port connection that your lame laptop probably already has (or should have).

USB is already a bus and has already handled things like ethernet for quite some time now.

Finally!

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

So this is the year of Linux laptop!

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[aitikin]

Thunderbolt is Sony/Apple competitior to the original USB. It is higher performing with I/O bound to the host vs in the peripherals of the original USB design. It was more expensive so USB won but due to its superior bandwidth and processing it is used for ilink/thunderbolt video cameras, vga dongles, and ethernet.

You sound like you're describing Firewire (developed by Apple, Sony, and a number of others), not Thunberbolt (developed primarily by Intel).

Thunderbolt comes with MS Surface and any Apple product to connect vga, ethernet, dvd, HDMI, video cameras, and other dongles. Mac users use them too. USB 2?? Well it can't handle these well or at all.

This paragraph confuses me, what are you talking about when you say USB can handle these well or at all? Dongles are almost always used on the USB port.

An easier explanation is that Thunderbolt is a functional, external PCIe bandwidth connection. I see it far more often in Pro Audio and Pro Video than any other purpose as its high bandwidth allows better access. It's still a young tech (2011) as opposed to USB (1996) and Firewire (1994), so there's plenty of things that still can come from it.

The Win 10 subscription model

[rsilvergun]

might be boon for Linux. Then again I sucked it down for product activation. Linux still isn't much use for gaming. And it's still a nightmare to write and deploy closed source software on Linux...

Re:The Win 10 subscription model

[jedidiah]

> And it's still a nightmare to write and deploy closed source software on Linux...

Strange then that Oracle has been doing it for so well for so long. It kind of makes you wonder what sort of extra special trade secrets they must be employing to make this happen.

Re:Why always Ubuntu on these boxes?

[bazmonkey]

Because Fedora is not a commercial product, this laptop is not an enterprise product (just in case you retort "well what about RHEL?"), and if you're going to pick a single distro to reach the most potential non-serverside users, it's Ubuntu.

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[unixisc]

Uh, Thunderbolt is connected to the North bridge, while USB is to the South bridge. Hardly VHS vs Betamax: both interfaces were defined and developed by Intel.

Thunderbolt combines PCI Express (PCIe) and DisplayPort (DP) into one serial signal alongside a DC connection for electric power, transmitted over one cable. Up to six peripherals may be supported by one connector through various topologies.

VAT isn't in US sticker prices

[tepples]

and me being in the UK probably means it'll either not appear on the UK dell site or be a dollar to pound conversion

Currently 1 GBP is worth about 1.50 USD. Sales tax is much higher in the UK and other EU countries than in the US, and included in the sticker price in the UK and other EU countries unlike in the US. This accounts for about 0.30 USD of the difference. The other 0.20 USD, if any, is probably shipping from North America and the increased warranty requirements of the EU.

Re:not knowing what Thunderbolt is

[ihtoit]

yeah, reading this thread has left me so utterly confused I've actually (gasp!) taken to actually reading up on it. Seems Thunderbolt is a serial connection comprising PCIe (essentially extending the PCIe bus with external channels) and DisplayPort, and DC power, through a 20-pin Mini Displayport connector. Each host port can drive up to four discrete devices, six in a daisychain, including direct serial connection with other Thunderbolt hosts. The difference between Thunderbolt and USB/Firewire is that Thunderbolt devices must each have its own Thunderbolt controller. I would assume that this reduces the handshake between host and device to merely detection and assumption that the connected device is a streaming serial device like a composite video adapter (to throw an example out there). This being a residual effect of the original design specification of Thunderbolt being an optical pair rather than a duplexed copper system.

For me, while this is faster than USB, it doesn't offer me the flexibility I need in my real world application (which is cramming as much hardware as I possibly can through each port, call me a hoarder). USB offers the 127-device-per-channel expandibility, there are 120-port hubs (the hub counts as a device and most systems these days come with 2, 4 or more hubs even if they only come with 1 physical port which sometimes happens), I have a 120-port hub and it's wonderful thank you though a 5V80A power supply is a bit bulky, it comfortably powers every drive I have plugged in.

kernel updates

[l3v1]

"hardware-enablement stack in Ubuntu, starting with upcoming Ubuntu 14.04.2, you will be able to upgrade your kernel"

Well, thank the gods, where would we be without hardware enablement, oh man.