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TurboTax Halts E-filing of State Tax Returns Because of Potential Fraud

Posted by timothy on from the tis-the-season dept.

mpicpp writes with this news from Marketwatch: Intuit, the parent company of TurboTax, has stopped e-filing all state tax returns due to increased suspicion of fraud. The company says it is investigating criminal attempts to use stolen data to file fraudulent returns and claim refunds, after hearing concerns from a handful of states, Intuit spokeswoman Diane Carlini told MarketWatch. After a preliminary examination with security experts, Intuit believes its systems weren't breached, but crooks may have used TurboTax software to file fraudulent returns after stealing identities, she said. Intuit said in a release that "the information used to file fraudulent returns was obtained from other sources outside the tax preparation process." The company called pausing e-filings to states a "precautionary step." Utah, the first state to reach out to Intuit, issued a notice Thursday saying the state tax commission has discovered 28 fraud attempts that "originate from data compromised through a third-party commercial tax preparation software process," as well as 8,000 returns flagged as potentially fraudulent.

80 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. I stopped using them years ago by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    I liked them a good 10 years ago, simple, easy. then again i was making minimum wage. This year im thinking about trying taxslayer. I like the reviews ive heard from friends who made the switch years ago. anyone else have any good simple do it yourself methods to share?

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    1. Re:I stopped using them years ago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I liked them a good 10 years ago, simple, easy. then again i was making minimum wage. This year im thinking about trying taxslayer. I like the reviews ive heard from friends who made the switch years ago. anyone else have any good simple do it yourself methods to share?

      Besides filling out the forms and mailing them?

    2. Re:I stopped using them years ago by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I switched to H&R block also about 10 years ago when they made their asshat move where you could only use their software one time and had to pay more if you wanted to do taxes for your relatives.
      I've been very happy with their software... works well with good support.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  2. Tax Scammer version of First Post by packrat0x · · Score: 2

    If you are going to file under someone else's identity, you have to file first!

    --
    227-3517
  3. Half way there by burtosis · · Score: 1

    So why don't they stop filing federal as well?

    There needs to be better protection in place to prevent this such as cross verifying the bank account to the actual person doing the filing. It's pretty shitty when 28 false claims can shut down the entire system and ruin it for everyone. Thank you for ruining it for everyone.

    1. Re:Half way there by ganjadude · · Score: 4, Insightful

      easy solution, stop filing taxes. The government gets all that information anyway. why not just have the gov send you a bill/refund every year, and IF you are not happy with the bill/refund, then you can file your taxes yourself. the way we do things is so backwards

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Half way there by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      The Feds do more cross-checking then the states, so it's harder to just tell Utah "I am totally former Governor John Hunstman, I really really made enough money to owe you $500 in taxes but had $15,000 witheld, and please send all the money to a bank account for Michaleen Czirpinski in Pittsburgh." The example is slightly exaggerated (the state would usually know how much Hunstman paid into the system), but not much.

    3. Re:Half way there by burtosis · · Score: 1

      That's like asking the lottery to track down who actually won instead of just keeping the winnings. Unlikely.

    4. Re:Half way there by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most other first-world countries manage it.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:Half way there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The government gets all that information anyway. why not just have the gov send you a bill/refund every year, and IF you are not happy with the bill/refund, then you can file your taxes yourself.

      Corporate welfare.

      The IRS is fully capable of doing this, and they even researched implementing just such a system. Lobbyists put a quick stop to that idea every time it comes up. Tax preparation services like H&R Block and online filing services like TurboTax have spent millions and millions of dollars fighting proposed legislation that would let Americans choose to have the IRS handle their taxes instead of paying a third party. Intuit (parent of TurboTax) has a larger lobbying budget than Apple!

    6. Re:Half way there by machineghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Strangely it's not actually that issue, as plenty of other countries do their taxes that way.

      The problem here (like just about all of our problems) comes from the intersection of business and government. The IRS actually looked in to free tax filing, but Intuit and their fellow companies lobbied hard to get it killed. It turns out Intuit would make a lot less money if the government did our taxes for us, so it's in their best interest to spend lots of money to prevent it from happening.

    7. Re:Half way there by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      But that would fly in the face of the resilient, independent American taxpayer, used to bootstrapping their entire life up from nowhere. Trained to walk uphill both ways.

      Who gets rebates for farming, fishing, insulating, health care, baby sitting, tax preparation, eating right and donating to the religion of your choice (as long as they aren't terrorists).

      USA! USA! USA!

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:Half way there by geezer+nerd · · Score: 1

      No doubt, this is a substantial reason why the government does not do the bill.

      Another big reason is that in many (most?) other countries the number of exceptions (deductions, exemptions, etc.) is much smaller, so it is much easier for the government to figure your taxes based on your income reported from the employer. I live in NZ, and I would say the average guy does not file a return. If every scrap of income he made was from a job, or bank interest, or pension payments, or dividends lodged with a broker, then the government has already taxed those things at source and there is nothing more to be said.

      On the other hand, there are some items which can be claimed to reduce tax that the government may not know about. This leads to an entire industry in NZ which helps people figure out if they have a refund coming that they did not know about. Most people do not.

      And I have been very satisfied every year using Turbotax to prepare my US returns from NZ. The ability to link to financial institutions and automatically download the data is a real plus. For several years Intuit did not allow one to efile with a foreign address, but now they do, and that is icing on the cake.

    9. Re:Half way there by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      easy solution, stop filing taxes. The government gets all that information anyway. why not just have the gov send you a bill/refund every year, and IF you are not happy with the bill/refund, then you can file your taxes yourself. the way we do things is so backwards

      That would work so much better if most of our social safety net was;t the tax code. Day care, college education, a significant proportion of health costs (obviously Obamacare, but also the Employer Health Care Exclusion), etc. are all run through the tax code.

      Which makes our taxes much more complicated then a place like Denmark, where they just pay for that shit directly and mostly fund the government through a VAT (i.e.: a sales tax).

    10. Re:Half way there by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      well, it could be done right now as is, giving people the option to review. in other words, instead of sending us tax forms to fill out and send to the government to compare with what they have on file, have the govt send us the tax forms they have, and we can reply with a yes - or a no, along with the forms explaining why they got it wrong

      or we could do the right thing, eliminate income taxes are we currently know them, and institute a fair or flat tax, thus making the idea of a tax return for an individual moot

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    11. Re:Half way there by dirk · · Score: 1

      While this is a great idea that works in the rest of the world, there is no way it can work here. Our tax system is too screwed up for it to work in the US. Most other countries don't have different taxes for different types of income, tax deferred income, tax deductions, tax rebates, and any number of other things to deal with. It would work for people with very simple tax returns but our system is too screwed up for it to work for most people.

      This is the same reason a flat tax would never work in the US. No one wants to give up their loopholes and deductions and the only way a flat tax works is if all that goes away.

      --

      "Information wants to be expensive" - Stewart Brand, the same guy who said "Information wants to be free"
    12. Re:Half way there by sabri · · Score: 1

      easy solution, stop filing taxes. The government gets all that information anyway.

      Not true. First of all, you may have accounts outside of the country, which you will need to report. Second, you may have rental income that is not automatically reported. And those are only the first two things I thought of when I read your post.

      Oh, and those are Federal only. An example of state taxes that are not automatically reported is the use tax that you have to pay if your state uses it, like California does.

      The IRS also doesn't necessarily need to know about your deductions, unless you want your doctor to inform the IRS every time you visit the office, and perhaps you'd like your kid's preschool to inform the IRS that you prefer the Catholic Baptist Imams Kiddie Academy instead of your local preschool. And let's not forget deductions like home office or certain business expenses.

      I'm pretty sure that in order to have everything go automagically, the entire tax system would need to be overhauled.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    13. Re:Half way there by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      In the UK, you are required to file a return if you have more than £300 of income from offshore investments, or you have rental income. But the vast majority of people manage fine without filing a tax return.

    14. Re:Half way there by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I'm a bit sick this weekend and may be misreading you, but are you saying that spending almost ten times as much as Apple on lobbying isn't doing more than Apple?

    15. Re:Half way there by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      It would be more complicated then you think to do this. Americans with very boring tax lives do not get the simple form, so the forms would have to be reworked.

      Good luck with Fair Tax or Flat Tax. Obama just proposed ending a tax break I have never seen anywhere outside of an IRS textbook (the 529 deduction, I do taxes three months a year and I've never seen anyone use it, I know how to report it in theory but I could;t tell which button tho click on the software to put it on a return) and got crucified by his own party. The other party sat back and smirked. The Upper Middle Class which dominates the country is absolutely convinced each and every tax write-off they get is something sacred, handed down by fucking God, which means that it is virtually impossible to get rid of said write-offs. And if you can't do that you can't simplify the form, because the form is how you tell the IRS you're taking the deduction.

      Like I said, this is how we run most of our welfare state. Saying "cut all the deductions, simplify the code, and reduce the rates" works about as well here as telling the Danes/Germans/Brits that their entire welfare state would be replaced by a simple check cut to every citizen resident in the country this year.

    16. Re:Half way there by Bourdain · · Score: 1

      "other" ? :)

    17. Re:Half way there by GNious · · Score: 1

      As a guy from Denmark, let me make one small observation:
      If your taxes are "much more complicated" than what we have back home, you're thoroughly screwed.

    18. Re:Half way there by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

      I don't know about the Danish system as a whole, but the income tax system for individuals is much simpler then the US. For example, there are three different tax forms Americans file (1040EZ with about 15 lines, 1040A with fifths, and the full 1040 with 79 lines). Your income tax is calculated in stages.

      First you add up all potential sources of income -- wage income, independent contractor income (which usually has to go on a Schedule C so your software calculates the Self-Employment tax correctly), interest from your bank account, capital gains (which could come from selling Bitcoin at a profit), etc. This is your Gross Income.

      Then you adjust the Gross Income by taking out certain other expenses the government really approves of. This are called "above the line" deductions. This year I paid student-loan interest, so I subtracted that interest from my wages to get my Gross Income. This gave me an "Adjusted Gross Income." Many retirement accounts, health savings accounts, etc. are here which means the Feds are using the Income tax system top subsidize a) health care, b) higher education, and c) retirement. You will also note that since it's done through the income tax system, the tax-break used to pay for all these things is much more advantageous for people who have a lot of income to tax (like Mitt Romney) then the poor schmuck whose so proud that he's full-time at Walmart.

      After that you take out your exemptions ($3,950 per person claimed on your return, and there are lengthy legal tomes devoted to the thorny subject of who gets to claim whom for what), your Deduction ($6,200 for single or married filing single, $9,100 for Head of Household, or $12,400 for Married Filing Joint; or some completely different number you calculate yourself based on a completely different list of expenses The Government Really Approves of them the aforementioned above-the-line deductions). This results in a Modified Adjusted Gross Income.

      But now that we've grossed our income, adjusted it, and modified the adjustment, surely it will be a simple matter of math to figure out the taxes owed? Don't be stupid.America has multiple tax brackets, and if you told an American just on the cusp of going from the 10% bracket to the 15% that his tax bill would increase by 50% if he'd made just bit more he will scream to high heaven and start a rebellion. So what they did is they made a table. It's in $50 increments. If you're in the 10% bracket every increment is $5 of taxes until you get to the end of the bracket. Then it's 15%, so it alternates going up by $7 and $8 (including pennies so you could just do $750 would make sense, so we don't). Then you hit the 25% bracket and alternate between $12 and $13, the 28% bracket is $14, but once you're halfway through the 28% bracket they stop the table and you have to calculate by hand for the rest of the 28% bracket, and the entirety of the 33%, the 35% and there 39.6% brackets.

      Congratulations! We're half done! You see now that we know what you should theoretically pay we can start using tax credits. Tax credits are better then deductions because credits reduce the full amount you pay. There're child-care credits, education credits, and retirement credits. We're now about 2/3 done. Maybe 3/4.

      Now we have to factor in your payments. Your withholding is just a very small part of what you officially paid. The thing about the credits in the last paragraph is they can make you own $0 taxes, but the can't make the Federal government cut you a fucking check for $5,000 (note: I actually had someone at my tax desk today get a $5,000 check from the Feds). Some education payments double as tax payments, there's a credit for buying gasoline for your tractor, there's the infamous Earned Income Credit which is de facto the major element of the modern welfare state because it gives people who made very little money and are raising families multi-thousand$ checks.

      So my friend, if Denmark has managed to make it's income tax system more complicated then the US I will be both extremely disappointed and impressed.

    19. Re:Half way there by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      BTW: You know that controversy over Obamacare? The way it works is that the federal government set up an insurance market, and even the poorest can afford to buy insurance because of Federal subsidies. You know how they do the subsidy? You tell the marketplace how much you think you'll make. It runs an algorithm for how much you can afford to pay, and then calculates the subsidy necessary for insurance to be affordable.

      That subsidy is an income tax credit. Which you have to repay if you got a raise and didn't report it to the exchange so they could cut your subsidy a little, or if you got fired and still made your payments you might get some money back.

      And the US income tax system is so ridiculously complex and stupid that I was able to fill a huge post on the topic without thinking about Obamacare.

  4. Ripple Effect by Virtucon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know we have to stop using SSN's for everything. It's time to have a different system. The Anthem hacking is now another example of how vulnerable we are and how we let these companies skate when caught. It's time that PII needs to be held in strictest confidence and with financial penalties awarded to the victims of these stupid attacks. Right now if the FTC slaps them on the wrists and fines them it all goes to the Feds. Fuck that! If I'm a victim of your mishandling of my PII you owe me bitches! Pay Up!

    --
    Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
    1. Re:Ripple Effect by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1, Informative

      that blog you linked to quotes this guy:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      and, well, he's not exactly a trustable source, given that:

      In announcing his Senate candidacy, Sasse expressed strong opposition to the Affordable Care Act (ACA, a.k.a. "Obamacare"), describing himself as "the anti-Obamacare candidate"

      so, got any REPUTABLE sources for this?

      an 'anti obamacare' guy is not what I would call a trusted source, mate.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Ripple Effect by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      Wow. Senators have never lied or been flat out ignorant when testifying before congress /s

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    3. Re:Ripple Effect by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      He's on the opposite side of the political spectrum as the source you have issues with, and is an authority in places ot know such things, *and* he said this stuff under oath to Congress.

      The IRS is *very* clear on this. The children must have SSNs and must have lived in the USA. So, even if they get SSNs for the children, unless the children were actually in the USA for those years, it would still be tax fraud.

      Incidentally, you clearly are concerned about the credibility of your original source, because I did not disagree with you based on the source of the information, instead, I disagreed with you on the *content* and *gasp* I compared it with the advice that the IRS and other organizations give on this topic. But I'll let you into a clue. A publication that quotes someone with "an unindicted co-conspirator in the cover-up ..." makes me suspect that the quote is not accurately portrayed.

      So I looked at the page you referenced and all the commisioner stated was that amnestied aliens would be able to amend prior filings. All that stuff about kids -- that came from the (obviously biased) author of the article.

      But even more, you were not able to accurately read the article, since it gives an example where the credit would be clearly fraudulent -- the claimed-for children were not in the USA.

      The ACTC is a fully refundable credit of up to $1,000 per child to help working families who have children at home.

      Problem is, that home may not be here, but back in Mexico, and the children claimed are often nieces and nephews in what are often rather large extended families. An investigation done in 2012 by NBC affiliate WTHR in Indianapolis found four workers claiming 20 children living in one residence, with the IRS sending these aliens tax refunds totaling $29,608. The children did not in fact reside in the United States.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    4. Re:Ripple Effect by zidium · · Score: 1

      You're going to have to submit a citation on this. I have already submitted citations on my part, and Senator Rand Paul just said today that illegals can get EITC for foreign national children, by applying for their SSNs in absentia (which *is* totally allowable).

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    5. Re:Ripple Effect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You're going to have to submit a citation on this. I have already submitted citations on my part,

      This isn't WIkipedia. What you have cited are partisan comments by people with an axe to grind, plus misreading (by you) of other quotes. But here is what the IRS says on the topic.

      Residency Test


      Your child must have lived with you, or your spouse if you file a joint return, in the United States for more than half of the year.

      And for the proposition (I assume yours) that an ITIN is sufficient: No it isn't:

      Yes. The taxpayer, the spouse (if filing jointly) and any qualifying child listed on Schedule EIC must have valid Social Security numbers (SSNs) valid for employment and issued by the Social Security Administration. You cannot claim EITC using an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN) or Adoption Taxpayer Identification Number (ATIN) issued by IRS.

      Rand Paul, who you gleefully quote, was talking about fraud and his numbers are grossly exaggerated

      So you are wrong about your central claim (that the amnestied aliens will be able to lawfully claim EITC for non-resident children) and wrong on the size of the problem -- even looking at fraud.

      So now it's time for some ad hominem. Rand Paul is not a reliable source of information -- just look at what he recently said about vaccines. I am going to make the unsupported claim that non-resident children of amnestied aliens cannot legally get SSNs. Whatever the truth is on SSNs, it's not legal for them to claim EITC for non-resident children. You haven't provided a reliable citation for your position, while I have provided one for my position.

      Go back to your tea party meeting. It's people like you who are driving the increasing disparity of wealth in this country and the stagnation of incomes for anyone except the top 0.1%.

      It's clear that your comprehension skills are poor, so I should probably not expect you to understand what is really going on.

    6. Re:Ripple Effect by lgw · · Score: 1

      Wow, you still believe in Obamacare, even after it's architect bragged that it was a lie designed to fool the gullible America voter? No wonder he felt safe in bragging.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  5. Thieves from Asia can file your tax return by rmdingler · · Score: 2
    The social security number is used at every school you went to, every job you've had, every credit account you ever held...that is way more exposure than the cleverest security can ever defend.

    Do we need to implement a password system that doesn't include a pet's name for our SSN's verification?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:Thieves from Asia can file your tax return by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      The worst part is when I was in the military back in the 70's, you were instructed to mark your personal gear. Either etched or written. My gaming books from back then all have my SSN written on the inside cover with my full name should it get lost.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    2. Re:Thieves from Asia can file your tax return by stox · · Score: 1

      Back in the "Good Old Days" Social Security cards were clearly marked as "DO NOT USE FOR IDENTIFICATION"

      Sadly, when Emperor Reagan was elected, we forgot all that.

      Prior to that, it was illegal to use your SSN for identification, outside of the military.

      I think it was the military who pioneered the use of an SSN as an ID.

      --
      "To those who are overly cautious, everything is impossible. "
    3. Re:Thieves from Asia can file your tax return by antdude · · Score: 1

      Even utilitites and other services require it. :( Also for those Q&As, don't enter real data.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    4. Re:Thieves from Asia can file your tax return by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      Followed next by many universities and colleges. At least most employers, while they have your SSN for legitimate reasons (W2/1099 filing) at least have the courtesy in most cases to assign you an Employee number to use within the company.

  6. Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are 2,095 negative 1-star reviews on Amazon of Intuit's TurboTax Deluxe tax preparation software. Why? Because, without telling customers, Intuit removed important functions from TurboTax Deluxe.

    Most helpful review: "The Deluxe version does not allow you to file Schedule D or E. ..."

    Most helpful critical review: "I hate being gouged, and I hate weasel word explanations even more... I am angry about the deliberate disabling of critical features in TurboTax Deluxe. No Schedules C, D, or E."

    The solution? In my opinion, the CEO of Intuit should be fired. Intuit should find a new CEO who will cure Intuit of its long-term abusiveness.

    1. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by sexconker · · Score: 2

      They are making things right tomorrow by upgrading every Dexluxe owner for free and putting back the features in next year's version. The CEO also gave a very sincere apology.

      https://www.linkedin.com/pulse...

      They'll just try it again later.

    2. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by tipo159 · · Score: 4, Informative

      They are making things right tomorrow by upgrading every Dexluxe owner for free and putting back the features in next year's version. The CEO also gave a very sincere apology.

      They are nowhere close to making it right.

      I have been using TurboTax Deluxe for 15+ years without even thinking about it. I have a minimal amount of iOS app income (net about $100/year right now) so I need to file a minimal Schedule C. I bought TurboTax for 2014 a couple of weeks ago and installed it, but was waiting for W-2s, so hadn't entered any numbers yet.

      A week and a half ago, Intuit and its CEO sent me e-mail with a "very sincere apology" that explained that I was eligible for $25 towards upgrading. As explained in the e-mail, they were improving the customer experience by removing functionality and it was really being done for customer benefit or something like that. I had no idea what the letter was referring to, so did a search and found that they had disabled Schedules C, D & E in TurboTax Deluxe and there had been a huge outcry.

      I thought that they had disabled the wizards that walk you through the forms, but found out that I was wrong when I started entering numbers into TurboTax. I tried to select Schedule C and was told that I needed to upgrade TurboTax and that it would cost $40. Note that Intuit was only offering to reimburse $25 towards an upgrade. At that point, I removed TurboTax from my computer and returned it to Costco and bought competing tax software.

      One interesting thing to note is that the product info on the Intuit web page still indicated that TurboTax Deluxe could be used to file Schedule C even though it actually could not.

      Yesterday, Intuit and its CEO sent me another e-mail with a "very sincere apology" which explained the they would be reverting TurboTax Deluxe back to the way that has been for years (but, if you had already paid for an upgrade and already filed your taxes, they were still only reimbursing $25, even though the actual upgrade cost could be more). Since I now already have other tax software, I will not be taking them up on the offer.

      As I said, I would just buy TurboTax every year without thinking about it and I know a lot of people who did the same. The idea to try and squeeze even more money out of people, resulting in people thinking about whether to buy their product and considering a competitor, has got to be among the worst 'penny-wise, pound-foolish' business decisions ever made.

    3. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by dcollins117 · · Score: 1

      There are 2,095 negative 1-star reviews on Amazon ... Because, without telling customers, Intuit removed important functions from TurboTax Deluxe.

      I find great satisfaction in seeing a company lose customers, brand reputation, and a good deal of money in response to pulling a dick move like this. It gives me the sense that all is right with the world. The H&R Block software is cheaper and is not crippled in the way TurboTax is. My family has abandoned TurboTax, never to return, based on this incident.

    4. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by zidium · · Score: 1

      So your only complaint now is that you didn't get $40 instead of $25?

      I checked on Amazon and Deluxe is $60 and Premier is $75. So it looks like you'd be getting money.

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
    5. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      Don't know how much your paying now, or why the upgrade was $40, but I just picked up TT "Home & Business" a week or two ago for $60 at Amazon. Was the cheapest I've been able to buy it in the last 10 years.

      Due to running my own software business, I have to use the Home & Bussiness version every year, and the price has only gone down over the years. When I first started buying it several years ago, it was usually around $100. Then a couple years later $90... then the last couple years I've been able to get it for $80. This year was definitely the cheapest so far at $60.

    6. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      The big thing I don't understand from all the people that are mad and feel they got shafted is this... On every TT software box I've ever purchased, there is a nice little chart on the back that shows the different levels of the software, and the features they support. I understand that this change wasn't announced, and could have been done better, but shouldn't people bear some of the responsibility of getting the wrong version, in the fact that they didn't check the features included that are clearly marked on all the boxes? I mean yeah, TT handled it wrong, but not checking what your buying before you pay money for it is a sure fire way to LET companies of all sorts take advantage of you. *** "Batteries not included"

    7. Re:Intuit has a history of ABUSE. by zidium · · Score: 1

      Me, too. TT Home & Business:

      2011: $120
      2012: $115
      2013: $90
      2014: $85
      2015: $65

      TT For Corporations :
      2012: $150
      2013: $140
      2014: $135
      2015: $120

      --
      Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
  7. Victim by bumlike · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I am actually a victim of this. I got my W2s on the 22nd and went to file them on TurboTax, just like I have for about the last 10 years. To my surprise my claim had been approved already by the IRS. I contacted TurboTax thinking I was going to be able to resolve it with a quick phone call for them to reset my account so I could really file my taxes. They werent able to do anything and I had to contact the IRS directly along with a few other branches and my local police department. I now have to paper file along with a Identity Theft form. My refund will now take at least 180 days to process. It could really be worse than it is. I didnt lose anything, the payment to the thieves was stopped before it was paid, just a hassle at this point. And those responsible had my refund at over $1600 short! :-P

    1. Re:Victim by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      1600 short? Geez, if your gonna steal someones identity, at LEAST get everything you are "entitled" to!

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Victim by sexconker · · Score: 3, Funny

      I wish someone would steal my identity and do my taxes.
      (I owe money every year because I don't like giving the government interest-free loans.)

    3. Re:Victim by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      LOL, same here. I owe my complete tax bill each year, no refunds for me. I don't even file quarterly returns, because the penalty for not doing so (~$100) is less than the interest I'll make keeping it in savings all year long + the amount of time and effort to do the quarterly returns.

      While it's not fun paying a big lump sum in full each year, I do take satisfaction in knowing I'm not giving the government an interest free loan all year long. And I'm keeping control of my money and only paying them what I owe and nothing more. I kinda laughed inside the year that many people got issued IOU vouchers from the IRS for their returns, knowing that I wasn't getting screwed out of getting my own money back.

      Not to mention, when you pay in full each year, you quickly realize 2 things, first is how much you really are paying in taxes, and secondly how retarded most people sound/behave when they are getting their own money refunded to them. I've never seen someone take something back to a store and get all happy and brag about how they are getting their money refunded to them, yet people do every year when it comes to the money that was taken from them all year. Again, I chuckle inside and think to myself, "you DO realize that was YOUR money to begin with right?". With the current system of automatic payroll withholding, I think this is the plan of the IRS... to make a normal person excited that they loaned the government money without interest, and aren't getting it back until after they fill out a bunch of forms to prove that they should get it back.

  8. Intuit's crooked lobbying by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 4, Informative

    Intuit is notorious for lobbying politicians to make tax filing complicated for anyone not using TurboTax.

    1. Re:Intuit's crooked lobbying by Virtucon · · Score: 1

      It was complicated long before Intuit came into being.

      --
      Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
  9. Convenience vs. Security by Holistic+Missile · · Score: 2

    I've been using H&R Block's TaxCut software for years, and in the last couple of years or so, I noticed a new option to retrieve your W-2 information for you. Since most companies use a payroll service, the software can actually find and retrieve your W-2 information and fill it in for you. I didn't even have to know who my employer's payroll service is, which is stupid for them not to require - it's on every check stub. I don't remember if it did any authentication offhand (it was a year ago!). If, through ID theft, someone has your name, SSN, etc., they could easily fill this information in on a bogus return they are filing. Then, as mentioned in another post, no attempt is made to verify that the bank account the refund is being deposited in actually belongs to the taxpayer. On second thought, I guess the ID thief could just open an account in your name to receive the refund in.

    --
    When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It only affects the people around you. Same thing when you're stupid.
    1. Re:Convenience vs. Security by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Question: How old are you?

      I'm 34 and I don't even know what color paper my paystub is. Direct Deposit to a checking account attached to a debit card means I literally haven't seen a pay stub in four years. And I have two jobs. I vaguely recall Home Depots are blue, but I honestly have no fucking clue what color the ones from H and R Block are.

      Which means that if you're using that as a security measure you've pissed off a massive section of your customer base.

      I agree that if customers valued their security more highly it would be fairly simple to make tax-based identity theft harder. For example, if you simply said "all refunds will be sent out on the First of May" then a lot of it would disappear because there'd be time for IRS bureaucrats to go over cases where two people filed the same name/SSN/etc., and it would generally be easy to tell the real return. But if you did that voters would howl to Congressman.

    2. Re:Convenience vs. Security by ShaunC · · Score: 1

      Which means that if you're using that as a security measure you've pissed off a massive section of your customer base.

      It's still required by law that the W2 be mailed out, so that's where the payroll company's name (or a ten-digit identifier that's also supplied to the IRS, or any of a number of other security features) could go. For what it's worth, I'm 35 and will always request paper paychecks as long as they're an option.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
    3. Re:Convenience vs. Security by Holistic+Missile · · Score: 1

      48. I guess I used an out-dated term! Of course, I have direct deposit, and we can access our pay stubs through our portal to ADP. They are PDF files that look exactly like they did when we received paper ones each week, years ago. They keep 3 years' worth of them (and W-2's) online for the employees to access directly. Older ones have to be requested via a rep. We get W-2's mailed to us, but that's it. Everything else is available online. We also schedule PTO and vacation days online through the portal.

      The point of my original post was that we have the convenience of not needing to enter our W-2 information (or even have the document in hand), at the expense of a security hole that can be exploited if someone has the right information, which is just run-of-the-mill personal identification information that we all give to many institutions, some of which have been or will be breached.

      --
      When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. It only affects the people around you. Same thing when you're stupid.
    4. Re:Convenience vs. Security by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      It's required by law that there be an option to receive a W2 by mail, not that it actually be sent out. I personally have not been offered a physical copy of a 2 from an employer in years because I made a point of checking the e-everything box. I sincerely hope nobody's tried to physically mail me one, because my address from Feb '11 to Aug of '14 was a Boarding House where some incredibly sketchy people had access to the mail.

      You can add all the security features you want, the core problem is that they will get worked around by the massive demand for extremely quick tax refunds until the identity-theft problem gets serious enough that people actually care. This little thread was actually started because one security feature (the employer id number that's on every W2) can now be easily compromised by anyone who has access to enough personal info to get into an H and R Block account.

    5. Re:Convenience vs. Security by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      There's dozens and dozens of things that the IRS/companies/tax places/etc. could do to make taxes more secure. W2 info is just the tip of the iceberg. In many cases it's actually irrelevant, because you can make the numbers up and file on Jan 20th, but the IRS will not have most W2s until closer to the W2 deadline of the 31st. You've got a decent chance of getting the money and being gone before anyone's the wiser.

      As a country, most Americans strongly prefer quicker refunds, which means that any security feature that takes time (and almost all of the most effective ones take at least some time) is a non-starter. It will be worked around by the magic of the combined powers of the free market and democracy, because the American people would rather have a significant proportion of tax returns be fraudulent then wait an extra 48 hours for their god-given refunds.

    6. Re:Convenience vs. Security by Chaos+Incarnate · · Score: 1

      If you hold back refunds until the first of May, people won't bother to file until April 14th; there's no incentive to file sooner like there is now. So then you're trying to do more work in that tight window.

      --
      Benford's Corollary to Clarke's Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced."
    7. Re:Convenience vs. Security by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

      Number one, you'd still get people doing their taxes early. Believe me, I work in a tax office and we get people before the first filing day (the 20th this year). Some of them even have a good reason (i.e.: a surprising number of anti-poverty charities require a 1040 to prove you're poor). Moreover if you did this places like my office would probably extend their loan eligibility through the 15th, which means a lot of people who need $500 NOW and can't wait until May would file in January or February.

      Number two, if everybody's form is in the system before it pays out a lot of the automated defenses work a lot better. For example right now if I get your Social and your birthday I can file your taxes and get your refund before the IRS gets a single W2 from your employer. If I get your kid's Social and name I can get several thousand by filing for EIC/child tax credit/etc. fraudulently, and then you either have to fight it with the IRS (and delay your refund until a human has time to look into it AFTER tax season), or just let yourself (and the kid, for whom you are paying 100% of the expenses, while the cheat -- frequently a relative -- goes to Vegas) be fucked over. I have had more then one client whose needed money NOW so badly that they let some asshole use one of their kid's social every year.

      If we delayed that payment until May then the IRS computer knows "OK we've got two tax returns for this guy, and only this one is accurate, so the fraudster gets no money." In more difficult cases the refund could be delayed until a human has time to do an audit. It would also force people to fight for their kids once, which would mean that instead of 18 years of not-enough-trefund-to-cover-childcare you'd get delayed once and then 18 years of proper refund.

      BTW, the main point of that little comment wasn't to solve the problem, but to illustrate that if Americans really wanted to solve the problem there are a whole host of things they could do that delay their refunds but reduce fraud.

    8. Re:Convenience vs. Security by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      Everyone is talking about delaying refunds until later. Here's the problem, it's your money, you should get it back as soon as you can. How would a bank take it if they loaned you money at 0% interest, and when your payment came due, you handed them a book of convoluted formulas and complex word problems, and told them they needed to fill out half a dozen forms correctly and you'll make sure they're correct and then hold your loan payment from them for several months to make sure that they are the correct bank to which you owe the money to? I think the bank would throw a fit, and so should any taxpayer if the IRS tries this for the same reason.

      The REAL solution to this problem, and others, is to STOP automatic withholding, and make everyone cut a check to the IRS at the end of the tax year for what they owe. No refunds, you keep your money until then. There would be no room for fraudulent filings anymore. Plus the government would have to wait until their "payday" like every other person in our country does and maybe have to actually create and balance a budget since they wouldn't know how much they're going to get, and would have to have savings to cover the entire year of expenses until next tax season.

      Any argument about how people would not be able to come up with the money needed at the end of the year, are BS, as they are already comming up with money now as it is, if they spend too much and can't come up with it at the end of the year, it's due to their own lack of responsibility. This scenario would also help lower income families as well, as they would keep their entire paycheck month-to-month rather than having some of it withheld and then returned later.

  10. Re:So let's see if I have this right... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

    Strictly speaking this is the way the vast majority of Americans want it.

    They want their refunds within days of filing, and since everybody files within the same few months (i.e.: late Jan to Mid-April), and most actually file within the same few weeks (late Jan and easy Feb), that means checking tens of millions identities a day. It would be possible to make a system that could do this, but it would be cost-prohibitive. So they do obvious bullshit error-checking (i.e.: are your W2s as reported the ones they have on record? do all SSNs, names, and birthdays match? does the bank account you're having direct deposit go to belong to someone on the return?), and deal with fraud after the fact.

  11. And...semi-obsolete already. by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    As of about two hours ago, Turbo-Tax is again processing State Tax Returns....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:And...semi-obsolete already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2015/02/06/turbotax-state-filings-halted/22979519/

  12. Re:Of course Utah noticed by NicBenjamin · · Score: 1

    If you've done the data entry for the Federal form on Turbotax, not doing it again is a reason to not bother with Utah's site. Especially since Turbotax does not charge for the state if you've got an EZ.

    Of course the number of people who actually have an EZ is much lower then the number of people who think they have an EZ (I actually met a woman with an annuity who thought she had the cheap tax form, sorry lady), and their business model is to lure people into answering a bunch of questions that disqualify them from the 1040EZ and then surprising them with a larger fee, but if you're a filer who actually file an EZ through Turbotax, it's fairly silly to go to Utah's site.

  13. Intuit is NOT making things right! Cost: 4 cents. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Informative

    Intuit is NOT making things completely right! Intuit is apparently just reducing the amount of abuse. See this explanation by an Intuit VP on Amazon:

    "... returning customers who have already upgraded to Premier or Home & Business, we are continuing to offer $25 cash back through April 20."

    Apparently only customers who know about the rebate will get money back; that may be a very small percentage. Many customers paid $30 extra, so Intuit will still make $5 extra for tricking customers. Some customers have automatic extensions of time to file, so they won't get the "$25 cash back", because they will file after April 20.

    See this Amazon review: **UPDATE -- IT'S EVEN WORSE**. Quote: " Even in the high-priced Premier version, Schedule C is crippled -- limited to $100 of deductions in a couple of expense categories. I.e. only good for a tiny hobby business, and maybe not even that. So now having forced me to Premier, even that high priced product is useless to me."

    See this story: Citing Tax Fraud Spike, TurboTax Suspends State E-Filings. Quote: "Cyber thieves have long sought stolen credentials for hijacked tax preparation accounts at TurboTax, H&R Block and related services."

    Another quote:

    "Stolen TurboTax or H&R Block credentials are cheaper and more plentiful that most people probably would imagine. According to the below-pictured well-known seller on the Dark Web forum Evolution Market, hacked accounts currently can be had for .0002 bitcoins, which works out to about 4 cents apiece."

    Another:

    "Unfortunately for Intuit and its users, calls for the company to support two-factor authentication have fallen on deaf ears so far, at least according to twofactorauth.org, a site that tracks which popular cloud-based services support the added security measure."

    Intuit has a LONG history of abuse, of being anti-customer to make more money. Dishonest people don't later become honest, generally. This is an example of that. Dishonest people, when forced to correct their dishonesty, look for other ways to be dishonest.

    If Intuit has a capable, strong board of directors, which I doubt, the board should consider getting a new CEO, and firing all the other dishonest people in Intuit top management.

    This comment gives only a very short summary of what I consider to be Intuit's anti-customer behavior.

  14. Re:Of course Utah noticed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Add to that Free File Fillable forms for Federal tax return, the IRS' own free filing service. It likewise costs nothing and can be used by many. While not guided, if you know how to do your taxes yourself and can enter the data for electronic filing, there's another reason for many not to not need TurboTax or any other company.

  15. Re:So let's see if I have this right... by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2

    BTW: The Feds won't screw you if the mistake is tiny. If you put something on the wrong line, but the answer you end up with is correct, they may make you back-up your claims, but they literally can't screw you. You paid your taxes, on-time, so there's no back-taxes for them to collect, which means the penalty and interest are applied to $0.

    If your mistake is small, and it's in the IRS favor, they may fix it and send you a check. Several tax pros I know have neglected to report certain small tax credits (like the Saver's Credit, where the government sends people money to reward them putting money into IRAs) because the money the client got from the IRS would be less then the cost of filling out the forms necessary to claim the credit (most tax places charge buy the form). It's not unusual for their clients to get a check for the unclaimed credit.

    If it's small and it's in your favor you're paying the mistake, plus penalties and interest. But they're capped, and directly proportional to the magnitude of the mistake.

  16. MOD PARENT UP! by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Quote from that article, How the Maker of TurboTax Fought Free, Simple Tax Filing:

    "Imagine filing your income taxes in five minutes -- and for free. You'd open up a pre-filled return, see what the government thinks you owe, make any needed changes and be done. The miserable annual IRS shuffle, gone."

    Intuit has been paying government officials to try to prevent improvements that would benefit everyone, the article says.

    1. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by swb · · Score: 1

      It really baffles me why the IRS doesn't have a web form for filing taxes. They have all the filed data on what you made. The only explanation that makes any sense is lobbying pressure from the tax filing industry.

    2. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      And then there's the other explanation that makes even more sense:

      The tax code is so complicated that not even the IRS actually understands it. And if THEY made mistakes on their tax software, they'd be held accountable. If a third party makes mistakes, well, not the IRS' fault you owe extra money this year....

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    3. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by swb · · Score: 1

      It's complex, sure, but how complex is it for the vast majority of taxpayers? Most people have pretty standardized and well-understood income sources and deductions.

      Before my wife started working a lot of free-lance work, I used to do our taxes by hand (two incomes, two small stock dividends, mortgage, childcare expenses) and one year they said I overpaid and refunded something in the neighborhood of $25, every other year I was dead on and that was just from following the forms and IRS instructions.

      I see no reason why the IRS couldn't handle that pretty easily and accurately. I can understand them not trying to automate truly complex investment vehicles or business taxes, but I'd also wager that people worried about those kinds of taxes would use a professional preparer anyway.

    4. Re:MOD PARENT UP! by amxcoder · · Score: 1

      They might have all the filed data for what YOU made, but many people are not you. Sure, if you work in the same job all year, have no investments and made no other income in any way, and your only tax document you get is a single W2, then yes, it should be easy. Any case other than that scenario starts getting more and more complicated pretty quick.

  17. Re:Just end the madness by KermodeBear · · Score: 1, Informative

    The power to tax is the power to destroy. When all it takes is the whim of a the legislature to pass a tax...

    Of course, this isn't nearly as bad as regulatory organizations that don't even have to pass a bill; executive fiat is all that is required.

    Because of this, we'll never see a flat or fair tax in this country.

    --
    Love sees no species.
  18. I use H&R Block by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    Cheaper than TT, very easy to use, and it works well. Ya I could do it myself but in addition to being a fair bit of paperwork and math (I think about 15-20 pages between federal and state in my case) I don't want to have to look up any rule changes or breaks that might apply to me and the tax software has all that programmed in. I'm way too lazy to do them by hand, and they aren't complex enough to be worth paying an accountant to do for me.

    Only downside is they want more money to e-file a state return. No problem, I just print it and mail it. E-file is convenient but no big deal.

  19. Re:TurboTax by davester666 · · Score: 1

    And please carry on using our software for defrauding the Federal government, as they can just print more money as necessary.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  20. That Is the way it happens here in germany by aepervius · · Score: 1

    Except they get the money from you every month in your pay directly so it is probably not 100% comparable to the US system. You can make a formular to get some back once per year. I easily got a few thousands back for example a few years ago.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  21. No need to mention the Operating System involved by lippydude · · Score: 1

    "Utah, the first state to reach out to Intuit, issued a notice Thursday saying the state tax commission has discovered 28 fraud attempts that "originate from data compromised through a third-party commercial tax preparation software process," as well as 8,000 returns flagged as potentially fraudulent."

  22. So.... by King_TJ · · Score: 1

    Given this reality, doesn't that ethically justify using only pirated copies of TurboTax to do one's taxes?

    1. Re:So.... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      Yes... but you should be doing your taxes with a spreadsheet and a PDF reader anyway, just because it works better.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  23. Re:Of course Utah noticed by amxcoder · · Score: 1

    State is usually included with TT even if you don't have an EZ. It's free if you print them, they usually only charge more for state if you need more than one state add-on or if you are e-filing. You can always print and mail in for free.

  24. Taxact by dingleberrie · · Score: 1

    I always felt frustrated paying over 50 bucks for tax software.
    I went to Taxact 8 years ago because of price (22 bucks or so for deluxe state and federal and federal efile, $19 if you buy early). I had tried turbotax and H&R block. They are all roughly equivalent.
    The only negative is that they don't seem to import my stocks directly from one of my brokerages.
    But it's well worth the avoided hassle of the big names, though.

    I'm not avid over tax software, but I like these guys because I think they charge a fair price and don't try to screw you.
    (I have no affiliations)