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Canadian Supreme Court Rules Ban On Assisted Suicide Unconstitutional

BarbaraHudson writes with word that Canada's Supreme Court has issued a strong statement in defense of Canadians' right to choose assisted suicide: [A] judgment, which is unsigned to reflect the unanimous institutional weight of the court, says the current ban on assisted suicide infringes on all three of the life, liberty and security of person provisions in Section 7 of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. It does not limit physician-assisted death to those suffering a terminal illness. The court agreed with the trial judge "that a permissive regime with properly designed and administered safeguards was capable of protecting vulnerable people from abuse and error. While there are risks, to be sure, a carefully designed and managed system is capable of adequately addressing them." Parliament has one year to enact new legislation modifying the Criminal Code to conform to the judgment.

33 of 231 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Yay Canada! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's got to be better than forcing people to continue to live an unbearable life. If you were to do that to a dog, you'd be charged with cruelty, but ending a human's suffering in a dignified fashion? "Oh noes!!" The people who are against assisted suicide need to stop trying to impose their religious or other beliefs on others, same as same-sex marriage. When their time comes, they're free to tough it out til the bitter end, but I suspect that some of them will change their minds.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  2. The Black Pill by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful
    With the erosion of religion and its accompanying objections to ending one's own life in most Western Nations (not including the U.S. unfortunately), I would expect to see more options for patients now facing only palliative care.

    When I have no more good days left, and every waking moment is agony or drug-induced, drooling stupor, I would like the option to give these borrowed molecules back to the universe when I am ready...not after my suffering has been prolonged by pointless medical procedure(s).

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

    1. Re:The Black Pill by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

      When I have no more good days left, and every waking moment is agony or drug-induced, drooling stupor, I would like the option to give these borrowed molecules back to the universe when I am ready...not after my suffering has been prolonged by pointless medical procedure(s).

      Note that you've pretty much always had that option. Or are you required to be in a hospital against your wishes wherever you live?

      Note that "assisted suicide" isn't about you killing yourself, it's about your doctor helping you to do so. Which meets the legal definitions of murder in most places.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    2. Re:The Black Pill by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What is assistance? Asking advice on the most painless, quick and reliable way of doing something?

      If you're a wheel chair bound quadriplegic what is the option for suicide?
      If you're a 100 year old senile man who can't remember if he's wearing pants what are your options for suicide?

      If you're able bodied enough to actually do the work, how do you do it reliably? Carbon monoxide poisoning works well providing you have a garage and no noisy neighbours but every chance is you may wake up in hospital after some Good Samaritan saved you. Do you jump of a bridge and risk not having an instant death and instead dye in agony? Or maybe swallow every pill you find and end up with an agonizing death as your organs slowly fail? Heck there are people who have bitten the bullet and survived with half their brain missing.

      Suicide and professionally assisted suicide are not the same thing. If you're lucky enough to have the option of one, it doesn't negate the need for the other.

    3. Re:The Black Pill by AchilleTalon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So, end your days when you are still capable to decide. Opening the door to let someone decide for you because you have lost this capability and you believe today these individuals should be terminated is not the way to do it. You believe you have a right to decide. Yes, of course as long as you are capable to decide. Beside that, no one has the right to kill someone else, be he a doctor (m.d.).

      Giving a de facto authorisation to doctors to terminate life when someone is incapable to decide is opening the door wide to abuse by the doctors and by the government itself. In case you are not aware, the healthcare in Canada is paid by the government acting as an insurer, when times are hard, the temptation is high to end the life of many who are costing to the treasury even if they paid tax their whole life to have access to this healthcare when growing old.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    4. Re:The Black Pill by Nemyst · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Medical oversight also ensures, as much as possible, that there are no treatments remaining that may be able to recover sufficient quality of life to avert the need for suicide. If the go-to response to suicidal tendencies was to go see a doctor for support, we may see a sharp decline in mental health-related suicides.

    5. Re:The Black Pill by Minupla · · Score: 4, Informative

      when someone is incapable to decide

      Just to point out - that was NOT the decision the court made. instead of paraphrasing I'll quote:

      physicianâ'assisted death for a competent adult person who (1) clearly consents to the termination of life and (2) has a grievous and irremediable medical condition (including an illness, disease or disability) that causes enduring suffering that is intolerable to the individual in the circumstances of his or her condition.

      Full judgement text available here

      So the decision was not to allow doctors to make an arbitrary judgement on people who could not consent. The judgement was to prevent the government from finding doctors guilty of murder for respecting their patient's clearly expressed and competent wishes to end their lives only in circumstances of nonredeemable suffering.
      Min

      --
      On the whole, I find that I prefer Slashdot posts to twitter ones because I don't get limited to 140 chars before
    6. Re:The Black Pill by Uberbah · · Score: 2

      What is assistance? Asking advice on the most painless, quick and reliable way of doing something?

      Why not look at what other countries have done?

      If you're able bodied enough to actually do the work, how do you do it reliably?

      Easy: nitrogen asphyxiation. More or less infallible, and not only does it not cause any pain, it actually gives the subject a sense of euphoria before death. BBC did an entire documentary on nitrogen asphyxiation in the context of replacing random drug cocktails for executions. Death penalty fetishists oppose it, though, because of the aforementioned sense of euphoria....prolonged suffering is a feature, not a bug, for them.

    7. Re:The Black Pill by bmo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So, end your days when you are still capable to decide. Opening the door to let someone decide for you because you have lost this capability and you believe today these individuals should be terminated is not the way to do it. You believe you have a right to decide. Yes, of course as long as you are capable to decide. Beside that, no one has the right to kill someone else, be he a doctor (m.d.).

      Oh please.

      Durable Powers of Attorney for healthcare have been around for ages now, and they are crucial if you don't want to suffer stuffed with medical equipment that will only ensure that your life is as painful as possible for your remaining days or hours.

      My SO was the DPoA for her ex. She got a phone call last October and said that Eric was in ICU and told me she was his DPoA. His mental state had changed and he was no longer "there" to make decisions for himself. I could have been a dick and said "he's not your responsibility anymore" especially since there was an alternate. But no, I said "You do what you have to do. Do what's right by Eric."

      He had gone in for chemotherapy. But then things started going badly very quickly and the healthcare professionals were putting out fires one after another. Eric had been intubated as an emergency measure because his body couldn't keep his airway open. He was also restrained to keep from semi-consciously reflexively trying to yank out the tubes. He was one of those people that stuff like that scared the shit out of him.

      The intubation could have kept Eric alive indefinitely were it not for his entire body failing because of the cancer. Keeping him intubated was just delaying the inevitable.

      So my SO helped him end his life by having him disconnected after his ex-wife (the alternate DPoA and still his best friend) flew in from upstate NY. Make no mistake, everyone knew that disconnecting him was killing him by many people's definitions and this required the approval of the nurse on duty, two doctors, and one of the DPoAs. He lived for hours after, so she stayed by his side, read poetry, and sang to him and said goodbye. Eric's greatest fear was that he would die in pain and alone tied to a machine (he didn't have any family here). Because he had someone to make the crucial decisions for him and be there for him, he didn't die that way.

      I learned a few things over those days.

      I learned that I needed my own DPoA, and I knew I found someone who would do the right thing if I needed it.

      Assissted suicide would be similar. It wouldn't just be /one doctor/ alone making the decision for you if you were unable - it would be two doctors, and your DPoA at least. It would simply be an extension of existing DPoA laws.

      And btw, your last thing: American insurance companies make the decisions to kill people every day by refusing to cover drugs or drag their feet covering valid treatments. So bringing up the "BIG SCARY CANADIAN GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO KILL YOU WHEN THEY HAVE A BUDGET SHORTFALL" is totally disingenuous, intellectually bankrupt, and stupid.

      --
      BMO

  3. The problem by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So, a carefully designed and managed system is capable of determining whether your life is not worth living? Presumably they will also find that some people are wrong in wanting to die, otherwise they wouldn't need a system at all.

    Which lives are worth living or not sounds to me like the kind of question it's maybe not right to set an official answer to.

    I have sympathy with people who feel life isn't worth living. But I wish they would not demand that others validate their choice by killing them.

    --
    xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    1. Re:The problem by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Such as system does not aim to answer the question if a life is worth living

      If it tells some people that they are irrational in demanding to die (e.g saying they are depressed), and others that they are rational in demanding to die, then it implicitly does.

      --
      xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
    2. Re:The problem by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Maybe you should look at places that have already implemented such systems. Repeated studies have shown that in the Netherlands, where physician-assisted suicide has been legal for some time now, medical professionals report that they do not wait for the patient to decide that they want to die. They just use their own judgment as to whether that person's life is still worth living. As far as I have been able to find, there have been no prosecutions for such acts, even though they are technically illegal. In other words, once it becomes legal for medical professionals to assist someone in taking their own life, medical professionals begin killing people who have not asked for such "help".

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    3. Re:The problem by AchilleTalon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Every suicidal people is already considered mentally ill. How can you then consider someone in this situation is capable to decide for his own life?

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    4. Re:The problem by itzly · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. Somebody with a incurable disease and a lot of pain would be considered quite sane to wish to end the hopeless suffering.

    5. Re:The problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Repeated studies have shown that in the Netherlands, where physician-assisted suicide has been legal for some time now, medical professionals report that they do not wait for the patient to decide that they want to die.

      That is correct. Only you are conveniently forgetting that the frequency of that happening went down by a factor of 4 after euthanasia became legal in 2002. To quote from a peer-reviewed article in the Lancet: "Ending of life without an explicit patient request in 2010 occurred less often (0Ã2%; 95% CI 0Ã1Ã"0Ã3; 13 of 6861) than in 2005, 2001, 1995, and 1990 (0Ã8%; 0Ã6Ã"1Ã1; 45 of 5197). "
      http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(12)61034-4/abstract

      (And for those who are not used to reading responsible research that tries to report findings, instead of support a pre-determined position, CI refers to the confidence interval and is a measure of how certain the researchers are of their numbers. If you would like to point to other studies, don't bother if your study is not peer reviewed and does not include such basic means of determining the underlying statistics.)

    6. Re:The problem by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2

      Since you apparently are unable to use Google: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm... http://www.life.org.nz/euthana...

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    7. Re:The problem by dywolf · · Score: 2

      I have sympathy with people who feel life isn't worth living. But I wish they would not demand that others validate their choice by killing them.

      Well then today is your lucky day!
      Because you don't know what youre talking about and are completely mistaken about how it all even works.

      The person who wants to die makes the choice and is the one who actually carries out the act. All the doctor typically does is discuss, in realistic and rational fashion, the patients options. Which really is what doctors do already. It's just that presently when someone has no options and there is no more that can be done, that's the end of the conversation. the patient can say "I don't want to live like this", but all the doctor can do is empathize. this simply allows the conversation, between a patient and his doctor, to continue rationally about the one option left, if the patient wants it.

      If after discussing it the patient makes that his determination, the doctor writes out a prescription. And that is the end of the doctor's participation. It is at the point wholly on the patient to carry it out or not, when they are ready. There is no violence to the self involved, as there would be in hanging, shooting, or other methods. Nor is there pain. The patient simply goes to sleep.

      It is not our place to tell someone that must keep living because it is our believe that they must.
      That's not our place. That's simply another way of forcing someone else to suffer because of our beliefs.
      Its not right.

      Yes we try to prevent the mentally ill from committing suicide.
      This is not mutually exclusive with the right of a person to choose to end their life with dignity.

      The one is an often an irrational and emotional response made in extremis, for which they can get help.
      The other is often a very rational decision because there really is no more help to be given.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  4. The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by AchilleTalon · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I believe the General Attorney of Canada missed the point in this case and did not defend properly his position. If you can easily think anyone has the right to decide for his own life, the point is about asking someone else to kill him. The argument revolved around the right for an individual to put an end to his days, and this has been declared unconstitutional to force him to live. However, what about giving permission to someone to kill someone else? This is the entire point at my humble opinion and this is where there will be abuses. It will become very hard to sue someone who have killed someone else in the conditions described by the Court to prove the killed one has never asked to be killed.

    --
    Achille Talon
    Hop!
    1. Re:The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Informative

      If the person has the right to end their life because it's not possible to help them and they want to end their suffering, and you deny them assistance when they are not physically capable of doing it themselves (just do a search for Sue Rodriguez), you have effectively removed the right for that person to end their life.

      And that is unconstitutional in Canada.

      And as the court noted, other jurisdictions have installed safeguards that work; there's no reason to believe and slippery slope will occur.

      It will become very hard to sue someone who have killed someone else in the conditions described by the Court to prove the killed one has never asked to be killed.

      The conditions that the court envisions would make what you describe impossible.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by thegarbz · · Score: 2, Interesting

      It will become very hard to sue someone who have killed someone else in the conditions described by the Court to prove the killed one has never asked to be killed.

      Maybe you should read the rest of the summary before assuming they missed the point. Specifically where they say: " a carefully designed and managed system is capable of adequately addressing them."

      Courts to prove the killed one never asked to be killed? We have legal systems that can cover all manners of a person's life including granting a person to the right to his own identity. Is it so inconceivable that a system is designed that has effectively a statistically insignificant error and abuse rate?

    3. Re:The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by FooAtWFU · · Score: 2

      In most assisted-suicide schemes, the burden of proof is on the "killer", not on the prosecution.

      Methinks you trust Systems too much.

      The present paper provides evidence that these laws and safeguards are regularly ignored and transgressed in all the jurisdictions and that transgressions are not prosecuted. For example, about 900 people annually are administered lethal substances without having given explicit consent, and in one jurisdiction, almost 50% of cases of euthanasia are not reported. Increased tolerance of transgressions in societies with such laws represents a social "slippery slope," as do changes to the laws and criteria that followed legalization. Although the initial intent was to limit euthanasia and assisted suicide to a last-resort option for a very small number of terminally ill people, some jurisdictions now extend the practice to newborns, children, and people with dementia. A terminal illness is no longer a prerequisite. In the Netherlands, euthanasia for anyone over the age of 70 who is "tired of living" is now being considered. Legalizing euthanasia and assisted suicide therefore places many people at risk, affects the values of society over time, and does not provide controls and safeguards.

      -- Legalizing euthanasia or assisted suicide: the illusion of safeguards and controls, J. Pereira, MBChB MSc. Current Oncology. 2011 Apr; 18(2): e38-e45.

      --
      The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
    4. Re:The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by dcw3 · · Score: 2

      What you have is an anecdote. Do you presume that the rights of individuals to take their own lives should be limited because of the case you've cited? Should others have to live in misery? While I'm sorry for your loss, you can't project it on everyone else's situation.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    5. Re:The General Attorney of Canada missed the point by StillAnonymous · · Score: 2

      Your line of reasoning has consequences I'd imagine you haven't thought of, because it can be extended to abuse in ANY system than can cause death. By your logic, the fact that somebody could rig someone else's brakes to cause a fatal car accident makes allowing people to drive cars a slippery slope. You can't have electricity in your house, because someone could rig a device to electrocute someone else.

      If an abuse comes up, you deal with that abuse you don't use a small outlier as reason to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I see from your post below that your view toward this ruling is tainted by being a victim at one point. There is good reason not to allow victims to decide on law for everyone else.

  5. Re:Slippery Slope by ArcadeMan · · Score: 3, Funny

    What's next? Legalization of marijuana?!!!

    I sure hope not, for three reasons:

    1. This shit really stinks, like burning old clothes which were stored in an attic for decades
    2. People who are high usually listen to loud music, and it's annoying
    3. We can only produce a limited quantity of snacks

  6. Small business owners will oppose this in USA by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Funny
    The small business owner is the job creator, one who takes enormous risk to put up some capital in the hopes of making insane amount of profits. There are people willing to do the work for 2$ an hour and bowl of refried beans, which is the price for labor set by Free Markets. But the onerous, oppressive and burdensome regulations thought up by the Federal bureaucrats are making them pay 7.50$ an hour several times what the Free market dictates. Further things like overtime pay, paid to wash hands after using restrooms, paid time to use restroom, costs like gloves and masks to handle chemicals....

    Now this, if these people decide this life is not worth living and decide to kick the bucket legally, without any consequence, what would happen to their businesses? Who would create jobs? Nothing should put the well being and motivation of the small business owner to risk. The access to steady supply of cheap labor and over supply of laborers should be maintained by the government at all costs. Allowing legal suicides would imperil the most sacrosanct class of Americans, the small business owner.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. Re:Yay Canada! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And paradoxically, the option of assisted suicide is also provides a backstop to suffering that empowers patients to hang on, or attempt painful therapies that they might not otherwise have the will to try.

    Knowledge that it's always an option if the suffering becomes too much to bear is of enormous psychological benefit.

  8. Re:Ironically by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    "And what do you do about the sort of person who thinks they want to die but decided that irrationally and you expect would change their minds between jumping off a building and hitting the floor?"

    If the doctors believe that the person is acting irrationally and they expect the person would change their mind, it just isn't going to happen. That's the whole point of having mandatory safeguards.

    "Also, given that for most suicide "attempts" the objective is to get people's attention rather than to die"

    [citation needed]

    I'm pretty sure that Robin Williams would have disagreed with you. Michael Landsberg certainly does.

    And so do I.

    Like Landsberg said in one interview: "You're in a meeting and you look at your watch and say 'Sorry, I've got an appointment with my dentist.' No problem. But when you say "Sorry, I've got an appointment with my psychiatrist' ... " Look at how many people say "Gee, I never suspected they were having problems" because of the stigma of mental illness.

    So maybe some people are trying to get attention. Maybe that's their way of saying "Why won't someone help me?" But there's nothing selfish about suicide.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  9. Re:Yay Canada! by Kernel+Kurtz · · Score: 2

    Yes, in a perfect world only those who believe others should suffer as long as possible would be the ones who die slow painful deaths, but the world is not perfect, so it unfortunately happens to decent folks as well. We do treat animals better and that is a sad commentary on society.

    Even more sad is the old laws forced some people to cut their lives short earlier - killing themselves when they are still physically able because they fear the day they won't be capable of doing it themselves.

    Certainly tight controls need to be in place, but most important - and this was important even before this ruling - make sure your family and friends knows your wishes. Many people already have "living wills", I would suggest everyone should make sure their wishes are known before hand. It may not make for the happiest dinner conversation, but it is a conversation well worth having sooner rather than later.

    Here is a template from our local health authority. You will find many others on the internet.

    http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/li...

  10. Re:Yay Canada! by Nemyst · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How someone can twist the ability for a suffering human to request, of their own volition and under extensive medical supervision, assisted suicide, and turn it into a slippery slope fallacy of death camps and selective culling of the population is beyond me. There is just no connection outside of your ever so slightly deranged brain there.

  11. Re:Yay Canada! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Informative

    Fortunately in Canada there's no insurance company to put pressure on people to off themselves. It's not an ideal world, but it's the one we've got, so we do our best.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  12. Re:Life insurance by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    Most insurance policies don't cover suicide in the first 2 years, but do cover it after.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  13. Re:Yay Canada! by anarcobra · · Score: 2

    Maybe you can do it like they do in Switzerland (at least I think it was there).
    Someone asks you three times if you are sure you want to off yourself (after you have signed the paperwork and everything), and they hand you a cup of poison.
    You have to drink it yourself.
    If you are too senile or weak to drink it yourself, tough luck.

  14. Re:Yay Canada! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

    You're right - it's not a law, but an acknowledgement that the right to assisted suicide a a constitutional right. Lets hope the government doesn't use the notwithstanding clause to cater to their base for the next election.

    People can suffer from a non-terminal disease that still leaves them in pain, unable to fend for themselves, and with zero hope of recovery, so I think it's a good thing that they didn't limit it to the terminally ill. If you had to decide between being hooked up to machines, unable to fend for yourself for even basic needs, always in pain, without even the hope of dying because it's not terminal, I think many would opt for help in shuffling off their mortal coil.

    And I see people here calling you names and talking about how a freak of nature you are. They do this via anonymous log in but it happens and you cannot deny it. It has even happened in this article posting over the same damn post I started replying to. Or does your LGBT club shield you from those comments? They will not shield a lot of others. And even if they did, you as well as anyone else will always know what others are thinking and saying- even if they do not say it to your face.

    I was outed on slashdot a decade ago, so it was inevitable that someone would eventually try to use it against me. After that had been going on for a while, I changed my signature to send the signal that I'm not ashamed of being a transsexual, and neither should others be. It's all part of "paying it forward." :-)

    If they were to log in, or at least make salient points as to why they feel the way they do, I would be happy to engage them in dialog. In the meantime, I think most people don't really have a problem with it.

    When you tell a friend and they say "Is that all? I thought it would be something bad." you know they're good with it. I lost one friend over it. I was disappointed, but that's old news. As for the people around me, we talk about it on occasion - usually after I make a joke that only works because I'm trans and someone present didn't know, so I have to explain why it's so funny to everyone else. Drives my sisters nuts, because most of them think I should be ashamed. But sometimes I get a laugh out of them, and I think that finally they're "getting it." Sort of. Hopefully.

    Yes, adults torment kids. So do other kids. And they've been charged and convicted. We also run regular PSAs reminding kids that sharing a "special" photo of another kid is distributing child pornography (yes, kids have been convicted for that. And courts are now allowing parents and the media (with the parents consent) to name the victims who have committed suicide, to put a face to the act.

    We're not there bet, but we're making remarkable progress on multiple fronts.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.