Ask Slashdot: Panic Button a Very Young Child Can Use

First time accepted submitter Zotonian writes My wife is epileptic. Her seizures have been well controlled by medication until recently. My concern is that we have a toddler and infant at home. I've set up cameras so I can monitor the house, but I'm looking for a solution that my 2 year old daughter can hit a button to tell me to look at them if necessary. Most of the options I'm finding off the shelf notify first responders and I'm concerned of the number of false positives a toddler might initiate. Other solutions like cellphones or wearables for kids are too overloaded with unnecessary options like GPS, phone, games, etc. I'd rather have a simple 'push button' solution I can wire into my router that would send me a text or chat message that alerts me to check the cameras. Then if there is an actually emergency I can take the steps from there. I'm looking for cheap and simple. Any suggestions from the Slashdot community?

Comments

wearable for the wife?

[Anonymous Coward]

How about a smartwatch for the wife. Make a little app the detects erratic arm movements and sends you a text message from her phone when that happens. Then you check in on the camera .

Re:wearable for the wife?

[ShanghaiBill]

Go to eBay and type "wireless panic button". There are plenty of options for under $100. Here is a panic button + watch that sends an SMS message to up to 5 numbers.

The bttn

[Anonymous Coward]

This product may be what you are looking for

http://bt.tn/

A big red button connected to the net that can do whatever you want

Arduino Panic Button

[netelder]

http://www.instructables.com/id/Desk-Panic-Button/?ALLSTEPS

Re:Arduino Panic Button

[hondo77]

Or, he could, you know ... BE A FUCKING PARENT.

I'm thinking dad is working (so he can earn, you know, a fucking paycheck to buy fucking food and keep a fucking roof over their fucking heads) while mom is at home being a parent (unless she can't because she's having a fucking seizure).

Re:Arduino Panic Button

[NicBenjamin]

Calm down.

His wife's eyes are on the kid. But Mom has epilepsy, so it's statistically likely that eventually she'll have a seizure while she's the only grown-up at home. The solution back when I was growing up would have been something along the lines of "go to the neighbor lady down the street, and she'll decide whether to call the police" but nowadays it could easily be "ping dad with a technological doohickey and he'll decide."

Re:Arduino Panic Button

[ShanghaiBill]

What kind of sick person puts that responsibility on a toddler?

You know nothing about him, his wife, or his situation. Some people have severe epilepsy attacks, but others have milder attacks that they quickly recover from. Just because he is trying to make a situation safer, doesn't imply that the original situation was dangerous.

What if instead of an epileptic, he was worried about his elderly mother falling or having a heart attack? Do you think it would be negligent for him to install a panic button, and teach his daughter how to use it, just in case grandma has an accident?

Re:Arduino Panic Button

[Zeromous]

When my kid was 2, she was at grandmas when she had an aneurysm. Luckily grandpa was home. Far from scarring, my kid actually had a fascinating life experience, and opened a dialogue about emergencies, first responders, what to do if something bad happens and they are alone. My kid still recalls it today as a positive, but very unfortunate circumstance.

Kids are far more resilient than your average parent gives them credit for. I'm proud of the way my kid handled it.

Re:Arduino Panic Button

[werepants]

You seem to suggest that putting responsibility on a person is a psychologically damaging thing. I disagree, and I think simple responsibilities are great and healthy at any age. This is a difficult situation, but these seizures might happen at most once or twice a year - are you really saying that the child can never be alone with her mother, ever, on the off chance that a seizure hits? Seizures would be potentially traumatic and scary, but there would be no way of sheltering her from them without taking such dramatic measures.

I've got a 2-year-old at home, and she would be perfectly capable of understanding "if Mommy falls down or gets hurt, push this button and Daddy will come help". This is certainly much better than crossing your fingers and hoping it won't happen again.

Smartthings

[FF-Loucks]

Get a hub and a door/window sensor or the starter kit. Put the door / window sensor on a cabinet door and tell your daughter to open that door if mommy has a problem (you could put a teddy bear or something in there that she should take to mommy ONLY if mommy is having issues). Then, using the smart app, you can have that alert you anytime the cabinet is opened. Should be less than $150 or so and now you have the start of home automation as well.

The button isn't the problem

[Shoten]

You're asking for a kind of button that will make it possible to rely upon a 2-year-old child as a caretaker. This is not a technology problem, and unless someone finds a way to accelerate human development of children to an alarming rate, it's not a solvable one either. And I have to say, what you're proposing seems like an inherently risky situation...to your wife and child both. Your wife runs the risk of your not being alerted, and I can't even guess what it would do to a child to have that kind of responsibility, especially if she doesn't hit the button for whatever reason, and ends up haunted by that for the rest of your life.

Re:The button isn't the problem

[King_TJ]

Yeah, except all he's *really* asking for here is an additional way to get notified if something's wrong, so he could take a look for himself via an internet connected camera.

This wouldn't (shouldn't) be about trying to use a 2 year old as a caretaker. The way I'm reading this, he just wants an extra fail-safe in place. (I think even a 2 year old is mentally functional enough to realize something's wrong with mom if she suddenly falls to the floor, flails around and acts generally unresponsive. It would probably make the kid feel better, not worse, if he or she knew simply pressing a button would be a way to communicate "help!".)

One of our kids used to have seizures (he's been free of them for a couple of years now while taking medication), and his younger sister, around age 2-3, was able to come tell us when it happened to him, if he was up in his room and we didn't notice it immediately.

Re:The button isn't the problem

[DRJlaw]

You're asking for a kind of button that will make it possible to rely upon a 2-year-old child as a caretaker.

That's funny. I thought he was asking for a kind of button that would make it possible for his child to communicate with him as a backup measure, given the video surveillance and all.

Of course you're free to argue that epileptics cannot be left unsupervised. Good luck with that.

You're also free to argue that epileptic parents should not be allowed to be alone with their children since their children might be required to be "caretakers," whether via a button, a telephone capable of 911, or merely living within distance to run to a neighbor. Because we'd all support that.

After all, this isn't an attempt to marginally improve a circumstance. This is an attempt to shift all responsibility for the parent's care onto the child. Not.

Re:The button isn't the problem

[NicBenjamin]

Epilepsy isn't some debilitating condition that requires 24/7 care. Epileptics are fine most of the time, particularly if they control their seizures with medication. Most of them actually have productive lives, with stressful jobs, and manage to hold shit down. As a stay-at-home mom of very small children this guy's wife can control her risk factors (particularly her amount of sleep, when she takes medication, etc.) much better then somebody whose work-schedule changes every week, has lots of deadlines, etc.

But if she does have a seizure it would be really bad because a) she'd be alone with nobody to call for help, and b) the kids would be alone.

A two-year-old can easily understand when something's wrong with Mommy. Most two-year-olds will know something is wrong with Mommy before Mommy knows something is wrong with Mommy, particularly if she's a home-maker. If you're two, and you've got a stay-at-home-mom, she is your entire world. A two-year-old can understand "press this button." If the kid decides pressing the button is a good game there's no harm because the police haven't been called.

Re:Not sure why this is on Slashdot

[OrangeTide]

I assumed he is a good man but a shitty engineer, so he asked here for help from people who are good engineers but shitty human beings.

Re:Chill out

[xlsior]

Yeah, I have a suggestion. Chill the fuck out. Watch your 2 year old, and when he/she's asleep, don't worry about it.

While you can probably delay the situations with the highest risk factors (e.g. baby's bath time) until both parents are home, there's a lot of things that potentially could go wrong while unattended. For example, A sudden onset seizure could cause the wife to drop the baby, or hit her own head on the coffee table, or who knows what else. Having a way for the 2 year old to call for help on her own in such situations could make a tremendous difference

This was a reasonable question looking for help mitigating very real risks -- don't be a dick about it.

That said: perhaps the easiest way would be to have a very basic speaker phone set up somewhere with a one-push button to actually CALL dad in case of emergency. A benefit of that over a silent email/sms/whatever setup is that it could give the 2-year old instant feedback that help is coming if there really is a problem, and depending on the verbal skills of the kid dad can save precious time as well: "mom fell and isn't moving!" vs. wasting time to try to remotely view your cameras first and see what happened.
(Although a possible downside is that she may just start hitting it anytime she wants to talk to dad during office hours)

Re:No

[sumdumass]

An infant and 2 year old aren't exactly capable of taking care of themselves. If the person supervising them is in a position where due to medical reasons, they might not be able to supervise them, some busybody can complain they are in harms way which will get CPS involved and they like taking kids until you jump through hoops of fire backwards with your eyes closed while reciting some latin poem.

No, seriously. You would not believe how much trouble CPS or your local equivilant can be. Hell, there have been stories of CPS getting involved because 4 and 5 year old were playing in a fenced in bavk yard and the parent was watching them through a window from inside the house. Called it neglect.

Cellphone for kids...

[Lumpy]

I am guessing that he did not look very hard...

http://www.amazon.com/LG-Veriz...

first hit after googleing "Cellphone for a small child"

a child can easily learn that press 1 for daddy, 2 for mommy, 3 for grandma and if mommy needs help press the big red hand and tell the lady on the line our address.

Otherwise for his wife there are a TON of systems that are panic buttons designed for people who have siezures.

So, what does the question asker have against all the existing options?

Re:No

[BarbaraHudson]

Better to put them into daycare, or find someone else with similar-age kids and both people baby-sit all the kids at the same time. Also, you really don't want to put that sort of responsibility on a two-year-old. Better to get a service dog that can alert others by doing exactly what you want.

Service Dogs

They make great pets and loyal companions, but did you know dogs can also be trained to help people with epilepsy? While service dogs are often associated with people who have visual impairments, seizure alert dogs are becoming more and more popular around the world. Their calm demeanour and safety training gives people the confidence to live independently.

Some common tasks that trainers can teach the dog include:

staying close to the person with epilepsy to prevent injury
fetching medication or a telephone
alerting a caretaker
activating an emergency call system (e.g. pushing a Lifeline button)
“blocking” a wandering person (usually during absence seizures and complex partial seizures) from walking into dangerous areas (Keep in mind that dogs cannot tell whether an action, like walking onto a street or down the stairs, is intentional or not.)

Re:Dog

[BarbaraHudson]

An epilepsy service dog can be trained to activate an alarm, such as LifeLine. It will also position itself between her and the toddler so the toddler doesn't get hurt. Just the knowledge that the dog CAN do this for her will lower everyone's stress levels.

A lot more dependable than some cobbled-together system that relies on a toddler, and that could lead to ugly questions about negligence. While the dogs are expensive, there are organizations that pay for the training.

Next time, why not ask her doctor or the doctor's secretary?

bite the bullet

[cascadingstylesheet]

It's very difficult having a spouse with a chronic illness. (I know.) Even harder when you have children.

As much as it sucks, have her in child care as much as possible. Yes, it's horrifically expensive, it's not ideal, it's not what you envisioned (I assume, as much as you want to let her stay home with mom). But it makes sense.

If it's your wife that you are primarily worried about, then you need to figure out what can help her. Can a neighbor check on her fairly frequently? Another family member? Also, I've seen devices advertised (primarily to elderly) which claim to be able to detect falls.

For both - child and wife - check with local social workers about what is available. You may be eligible for subsidized child care due to the situation. Your wife may be eligible for some kinds of help.

Hang in there, and don't be ashamed to reach out for help.

Re:No

[AK Marc]

I know lots of epileptics. I've never known a single one with a live-in nurse. Even the blind one I know lives alone.

Re:wait, what the hell?

[hawguy]

Your epileptic wife is having attacks, and you want a TWO year old to be not only alone in that situation, but responsible for a panic button? Dude, you are sick and need to get a frickin clue. Fast! Someone should seriously turn you in for child endangerment bordering on abuse!

Yeah, I honestly had to consider whether or not this was an early April fools gag...

You seem to have misread his situation, it's not that he *wants* that situation, it's a situation he wants to avoid. Yet, he also wants to prepare for it.

Don't automatically call 911 on epileptics

[MillionthMonkey]

I had epilepsy for 30 years, about one seizure every two weeks, before finally getting brain surgery last year. The seizures were deeply hallucinogenic, physically severe, often lasted 10-20 minutes, and they left me with a huge hangover; afterwards I had to sleep about 12-18 hours in one go, maybe wake up for maybe four hours, then go back to sleep for another 12-18 hour stretch. I was like my brain was rebooting like Windows after a blue screen. If I wasn't able to sleep, I would become really sick, get intense migraines, and start throwing up, and recovery took several days longer.

A big problem was people instantly making 911 calls. I was routinely being dragged off to an ER all the time, waking up in one at least once a month. They all knew me there, and realized after a while what the deal was, so I would be wheeled into a corner and left behind a curtain while they tended to more serious cases. I had to wait there for hours staring up at fluorescent lights and struggling to keep from vomiting and choking to death (since they liked to strap me on the bed face up). It usually took six to ten hours to get out of there- I had to wait for the lab to finish their ritual of drug assays for PCP, LSD, THC, cocaine, methamphetamine, and all kinds of other shit that they knew were going to come back negative. And this was before the ACA, so with a huge preexisting condition I couldn't get insurance from anybody, and had to pay out of pocket costs for meds which I couldn't afford half the time because this shit made it hard to get a job in the first place. When seizures came, I had about ten second warning from a visual aura. If I was outside I would quickly jump underneath nearby bushes or hide behind parked cars just so no one would see me and call the ER. I would wake up and stagger home bleeding, getting lost, and trying to stay out of sight. I did have a bracelet that said DO NOT CALL 911, along with my wife's number, but no one ever took it seriously. I wanted her to know so she could come pick me up, but I always wound up in the jaws of an ER instead.

Don't assume this guy and his wife want a 2 year old calling 911. That may be the last thing they need. I can see why he would want to know, right away. He's lived with her and is going to be better equipped to handle her than the paramedics will. if they can't get any clues from a toddler, the emergency responders have to figure out what's going on themselves, and that makes it a painful mess. There isn't a lot that an ER can do with a seizure anyway except strap the person down so they don't thrash around and get bruises. There's always the possibility of status epilepticus (which I've had many times) but you should wait until a seizure lasts for more than five minutes. They look scary, maybe like the person is dying, and of course there's the danger of thrashing around and hitting things. But in general a seizure doesn't do any lasting damage to the brain.

Re:wait, what the hell?

[neo256]

You... do know that epileptic seizures are in most cases non fatal. As in the initial position is most important. It happens suddenly, when you hit a chair, table, whatever, you could get (seriously) injured. Everything after that depends very much on the length of the seizure and how quickly one regains consciousness. You simply can not call the hospital every time it happens. I am an emergency response officer (damn that sounds cocky in English) and first rule during an epileptic seizure is when you recognize it (the person should make it known they are epileptic) and help them to the ground. If you have the time push away anything that might hurt them (sharp objects, furniture). Ideally you drag them to a 3 meter radius free spot. Remember though. You will probably will be to late in most cases. And just FORGET anything about trying to stop the shaking or help someone in anyway (NO you do not force ANYTHING in to their mouths. The force of the bite is so great they can shatter teeth or the object you embed adding shrapnel of debris to the whole mix). This is a neurological condition that either stops by itself or can be negated with special medicine only a doctor can prescribe (dependent on the type of epilepsy) and carried by the person so they can instruct people to help them out with this. The most important is the aftermath. - If it is the first time and it is an unknown condition to this person: ambulance or at least off to the hospital with them. - If shaking takes more then 10 minutes or the person does not regain conscious within that time period. Call the ambulance (just in case). - Check if the person is breathing. Which I hopefully don't need to explain why and what you need to do. Everyone even a toddler can just raise the 'I think something is wrong' alarm. The point is; not a whole lot of things can accurately trigger on a seizure. As far as I know you heart rhythm doesn't even have to be affected. And the 'flailing' can't easily be found by the watch. If you are laying on your arm while having the seizure that's the only limb that will not move. While under normal circumstances you might flick your wrist and set off an alarm. People in your neighborhood are your best friend. Always, period. When you wake up you feel like you walked the marathon. Everything hurts, you feel disoriented (in most cases) and are prone to feel 'alien' as you have been 'gone' for X minutes. Yes I think a button is the right choice for given use case.

Re:In all honesty

[Half-pint HAL]

If we start down that track, we're effectively saying "people with health problems can't be mothers". Next you'll be calling social services because you saw your blind neighbour carrying her own baby. Honestly, it would be nice if we were all perfectly healthy, but some of us aren't, and that doesn't make us any less human.