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Wayland 1.7.0 Marks an Important Release
jones_supa writes: The 1.7.0 release of Wayland is now available for download. The project thanks all who have contributed, and especially the desktop environments and client applications that now converse using Wayland. In an official announcement from Bryce Harrington of Samsung, he says the Wayland protocol may be considered 'done' but that doesn't mean there's not work to be done. A bigger importance is now given to testing, documentation, and bugfixing. As Wayland is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
Nope. Everyone jumped ship for BSD when systemd came along.
I keep hearing about Wayland release this, and Wayland release that. That's all great - keep releasing new versions, that's progress. But I want to know, when can I install a GNU/Linux distro and start using Wayland. I know, it's next year, but we'll said that for a couple of years now and I'm running out of patience.
That's the right way to do it. They use pelican, xmlto with some customized XSLT and graphviz for maintainable high-level diagrams.
Pretty cool. So far I have only used sphinx (and doxygen before), but these days there are a lot of great documentation options out there.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
As Wayland is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
Will I grow old and die before this event?
Seems like we should see Wayland in Debian by next week given how fast systemD got dragged in.
Oh wait Wayland doesn't have a systematic board takeover on its side.
Isn't this something systemd can take care of now??? I kid... I kid... ;)
After it was announced a year or two ago, I have heard nothing about RDP support in Wayland. Is it getting to the point that Wayland will have first-class support for transparently remoting apps with RDP? Anyone know the status on this? There's precious little info about this on the interwebs, and no real information on what the workflow looks like, say with ssh forwarding.
Anyway to try it on hardware without using vm?
but neither tested nor documented yet. So, what do we have then? Shipped 1.7.0 because it compiled?
That used to be a joke. Now Xorg is one, but a very different kind of joke.
From my poorly-informed vantage point, it seems like all the things that truly sucked about X Window are still there in Wayland.
Is there any good reason to use Wayland rather than X Window?
Compared to X11, RDP isn't good for seamless graphical element integration into the local environment (though integration of audio makes it better on another front, and performance wise RDP runs circles around X11).
All that said, I'm not one to be down on Wayland. Xpra demonstrates how a linux graphical environment is best remoted, and it doesn't really use the X protocol at all for the business end of things. It interjects as a compositor and window manager, with a dummy X server to satisfy the demands of X clients. The compositor gets the graphical data, sound comes along, and intercepting window manager hints lets it do other things like correctly place 'tray' icons. In other words the X protocol is at this point thoroughly superseded for it's big strength. I don't know if Wayland has something like Xpra yet, but I have hope.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
RDP seems to me to be a really poor alternative to having a "remote widget set". Why would you send bitmaps over the line when the only thing that matters is the rendering and state of standardized widgets?
Fact is that RDP is rather braindead. Yes, it is used a lot and certainly a lot more than saner alternatives. But is that really the criteria? Whatever gets used is the best even if it's retarded?
<rant>
For those of us who have not heard of Wayland, the following is how the summary reads:
The x.y.z release of Some Software is now available for download. The project thanks all who have contributed, and especially the desktop environments and client applications that now converse using Some Software. In an official announcement from Some Author of Some Company, he says the Some Software protocol may be considered 'done' but that doesn't mean there's not work to be done. A bigger importance is now given to testing, documentation, and bugfixing. As Some Software is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
So what does Some Software actually do and why should I be interested? I know that I can Google Some Software, but is it really that hard to start with the summary with the following:
The x.y.z release of Somesoftware, a package which does blah blah blah, is now available for download. ...
After all, phrases such as "As Wayland is maturing", imply that this is a relatively new piece of software still under development of which everyone is not familiar, especially for those of us using BSDs, Solaris, and Slackware.
</rant>
More importantly can I open a window on the NCAR servers in Wyoming or the LNL servers in California run programs on the servers at NCAR/LNL while displaying the results on my Linux box in New York. Oh it doesn't does it (Wayland does not currently provide network transparency, but it may in the future.It was attempted as a Google Summer of Code project in 2011, but was not successful.) I guess I will have to wait until somebody invents an architecture-independent system for remote graphical user interfaces and input device capabilities, where each person using a networked system has the ability to interact with the display with any type of user input device.
The pro-systemd people are insane and have destroyed Linux forever,
Remember the topic of this article. Can't we save some of the credit for destroying Linux for Wayland?
So it doesn't even compile, nor is it documented.
Great way to attain progress: Just declare success, done. No compiling required, so all that's done is just ship the thing.
Among the problems with RDP are:
From the wikipedia entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_Desktop_Protocol) "Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) is a proprietary protocol developed by Microsoft, which provides a user with a graphical interface to connect to another computer over a network connection. "
As a Linux user why would I want to use a proprietary protocol when there are plenty of Free(dom) ones to choose from? What's the advantage for me? I don't use Windows products so why should I bother caring about this?
On the other hand, XWindows has been seen around 1987 and the only real problem I've had with it is displaying back OpenGL content. Maybe Wayland will be even better. I'll just wait and see how Debian implements it for me.
And again the systemd guys moderate people down that post about systemd problems. Linus was right to criticize them for ignoring bug reports.
[gay-sex-access.3om]?
So a) they got to v1.7.0 of an implementation before they finished the initial protocol they were implementing, and b) they are NOW increasing their work on documentation and testing.
This is why actual engineers, including software engineers, either laugh or cry over these programmers who think they should be treated with respect.
Only the bits of X they consider important.
It was planned as more an alternative MS style window system for *nix boxes than a "replacement" for X, but has adopted more X style features (eg. choice of window management instead of one style fits all) as the project has progressed.
It's the differences that have people arguing and putting people down for wanting to run applications from 2013, 2005 or (shock horror!) commercial *nix software that still has bits from 1999. If you are not willing to have all new applications for an all new environment then Wayland is not for you because it is an alternative desktop for new stuff and not designed to do what the old one could do and run old applications.
Seriously, there is no reason for a new windows environment. Fuck 'gamers' and their graphic acceleration, professionals have never needed that. Linux is not meant for idiot home users and shouldn't be modified to serve them.
I hope Wayland, SystemD and all the upstart 'replacements' to perfectly fine, traditional working software get tossed into a volcano.
I hit /. daily, fark daily, run Linux daily. I've heard of Wayland, but have no idea what it is. So, um, WTF is Wayland and why should I care? Summary, help me out?
I don't know what a compositor does - can someone give a link to an explanation how all this stuff fits together please, preferably one with diagrams?
As someone who would like to use Linux exclusively and would like to promote it more, I'm annoyed and embarrassed that I can't get decent Linux remote desktop over my GB LAN: You want video? What year do you think this is, 2015?
Whereas Microsoft RDP works very well indeed.
From TFA:
>Wayland's developer documentation is comprised of three different pieces.
Where's that guy from Wikipedia to fix their grammar?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
No, remoting should not be done at the toolkit level, for that means you now depend on N toolkits to all implement remoting correctly, lest you end up with some (or all) programs not supporting remoting at all just because the toolkit dev didn't feel like reinventing the wheel, badly, because the wayland "architecture" was done by a bunch of doofuses (as it is).
Remoting needs to be support right at the start, the lowest available protocol levels, exactly so that all programs support remoting seamlessly in an uniform way. If you then want to add remoting support on toolkit or higher levels to support more efficient remoting, that's cool, that's fine, go for it. But don't go and claim all remoting "belong" at the toolkit level, because that just causes needless, senseless breakage (that we know so well from the various wayland/Xorg/freedesktop/poettering deliberate doofus crews).
Blocking remoting from working in some programs just so it might work somewhat better in others using blessed toolkits is just stupid. Make it work seamlessly at all for all programs first, make sure it can also work efficiently second, is the better approach.
Remote Desktop Protocol (RDP) is a proprietary protocol developed by Microsoft
Citrix created it.
As a Linux user why would I want to use a proprietary protocol when there are plenty of Free(dom) ones to choose from? What's the advantage for me? I don't use Windows products so why should I bother caring about this?
RDP is usable over dialup and often indistinguishable from sitting at console over broadband. No free offering even comes close to the performance or quality of RDP.
On the other hand, XWindows has been seen around 1987
Xwindows is a dead end.
ssh -X FTW!
Wayland doesn't have this.
Just clean up X or write X12.
Or just keep X11. It's fine.
If all it takes is to make you take it up is to keep going on about it being bad to make systemd the only choice for bootup, you have no willpower at all, do you?
How did you manage not to take up Windows instead, what with all the anti-windows trolls?
If so, why?
But wonder if the tricks Bumblebee employ, would work in Wayland.
Screenshots, benchmarks, video reviews? Where's the media coverage?
Personally, I don't give a shit unless it provides native RDP support that works with Microsoft's Remote Desktop app.