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Wayland 1.7.0 Marks an Important Release
jones_supa writes: The 1.7.0 release of Wayland is now available for download. The project thanks all who have contributed, and especially the desktop environments and client applications that now converse using Wayland. In an official announcement from Bryce Harrington of Samsung, he says the Wayland protocol may be considered 'done' but that doesn't mean there's not work to be done. A bigger importance is now given to testing, documentation, and bugfixing. As Wayland is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
That's the right way to do it. They use pelican, xmlto with some customized XSLT and graphviz for maintainable high-level diagrams.
Pretty cool. So far I have only used sphinx (and doxygen before), but these days there are a lot of great documentation options out there.
NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
You can already run GNOME on Wayland on Fedora 21. I don't know when they will switch to it by default, but last time I heard anything about it the target was at Fedora 22.
You can use Wayland in Fedora today: http://fedoramagazine.org/gnom...
After it was announced a year or two ago, I have heard nothing about RDP support in Wayland. Is it getting to the point that Wayland will have first-class support for transparently remoting apps with RDP? Anyone know the status on this? There's precious little info about this on the interwebs, and no real information on what the workflow looks like, say with ssh forwarding.
Actually, the opposite is happening. Lot's of BSD users are so annoyed by the anti-systemd trolls joining their community that their are now moving back to Linux.
Wow. First post and you've already hijacked the thread into another systemd flame fest?
My first program:
Hell Segmentation fault
As Wayland is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
Will I grow old and die before this event?
They're targeting GNU HURD as their primary platform.
It's supposed to be used to play the next Duke Nukem release.
anti-systemd trolls
Nice revisionist history. It's the systemd guys that have been acting like children and constantly attack Linux users for pointing-out bugs. After posting a reproduction script to the mailing list about a problem with systemd ignoring the exit status from a script, I was told by one of the main devs that he hoped my mother got cancer. Joke's on him. She died of cancer in 1977. You also have kids like http://slashdot.org/~Eunuchswear here that post some nasty replies, and it appears from looking at the moderation on the posts he is replying to that he or his friends have mod points and are using them to attack people that post about systemd problems.
If the systemd guys spent as much time programming as they did attacking us, then we probably wouldn't have anything to complain about in the first place!
Posting as AC because two of the last three times I posted one of the systemd punks moderated my posts down. I don't want to lose more karma to those trolls.
Has it been tested? No.
Has it been audited? No.
It listens to network ports so all it takes is a single vulnerability in systemd and you can exploit the entire machine.
<rant>
For those of us who have not heard of Wayland, the following is how the summary reads:
The x.y.z release of Some Software is now available for download. The project thanks all who have contributed, and especially the desktop environments and client applications that now converse using Some Software. In an official announcement from Some Author of Some Company, he says the Some Software protocol may be considered 'done' but that doesn't mean there's not work to be done. A bigger importance is now given to testing, documentation, and bugfixing. As Some Software is maturing, we are also getting closer to the point where the big Linux distros will eventually start integrating it to their operating system.
So what does Some Software actually do and why should I be interested? I know that I can Google Some Software, but is it really that hard to start with the summary with the following:
The x.y.z release of Somesoftware, a package which does blah blah blah, is now available for download. ...
After all, phrases such as "As Wayland is maturing", imply that this is a relatively new piece of software still under development of which everyone is not familiar, especially for those of us using BSDs, Solaris, and Slackware.
</rant>
FYI you may want to try xpra (not wayland, but still). It's better than X forwarding, but operates on principles that translate to the Wayland stack if you dig into it.
Besides, I know portions of NCAR use VirtualGL (at least last I was involved). It does some stuff Xpra doesn't and currently only works with an X stack, but again it operates on principles that don't really intrinsically use the X11 network features.
Of course you may simply be referring to the fact that such approaches has not yet evolved in Wayland ecosystem, rather than implying they are hampered by not having an X11 style approach to remote applications.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
" I was told by one of the main devs that he hoped my mother got cancer" - how about naming names???
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
fuck you...I guess your kind would rather whine
Yeah, that's really productive.
I bet Red Hat is regretting associating themselves with systemd by hiring its creator and main developer. I know when I call their support that they're fed-up with dealing with systemd-created problems.
> She died of cancer in 1977.
Which means you're old enough to know better than to engage with angry, irrational children. Next time just ignore them rather than arguing with them. They obviously think that those of us that care about a script's exit status, stedrr not being logged in the journal, or high priority syslog messages being dropped are just old and out of touch. You're obviously not going to convince them with facts and logic after they're so emotionally (well, anger anyway) invested in defending their pet project.
> moderated my posts down.
I think three of my last four systemd posts were marked as trolls even though I gave specific examples of bugs. The systemd community is simply toxic.
Last night, I created a bug at:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/e...
With a script I found from:
http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/...
that I was able to use to reproduce two different systemd bugs with on a Red Hat 7 and a CentOS 7 system. It is a well written and very self-explanatory example. I can no longer find the bug. It looks like they deleted it.
This is fun -- a troll is pretending to be me.
It was me that made the [incorrect] suggestion about Type=forking.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Yeah. I have to agree with this to a degree. There are a great number of childish and petty people in BOTH camps. I've seen good anti-systemd posts get modded troll and I've seen good pro-systemd posts get modded troll. To attack the project community (or anti-project) community based on the toxic fringes of each seems counterintuitive.
(Disclaimer: I'm from the pro-systemd camp, and while I've tried to keep my posts as nice as possible I'm sure I've slipped from time to time. For that, I'm sorry.)
Because it's fast. I don't care what any linux user says (and I'm 100% linux on my own stuff at home), RDP is still 10 times quicker than anything linux has to offer in this area. I do like the desktop integration of remoting through SSH, but it's dog slow. Seems to me there ought to be a way to run RDP type stuff remotely and still have each app appear in it's own window and be managed by the desktop.
So a) they got to v1.7.0 of an implementation before they finished the initial protocol they were implementing, and b) they are NOW increasing their work on documentation and testing.
This is why actual engineers, including software engineers, either laugh or cry over these programmers who think they should be treated with respect.
Only the bits of X they consider important.
It was planned as more an alternative MS style window system for *nix boxes than a "replacement" for X, but has adopted more X style features (eg. choice of window management instead of one style fits all) as the project has progressed.
It's the differences that have people arguing and putting people down for wanting to run applications from 2013, 2005 or (shock horror!) commercial *nix software that still has bits from 1999. If you are not willing to have all new applications for an all new environment then Wayland is not for you because it is an alternative desktop for new stuff and not designed to do what the old one could do and run old applications.
You're confused. Bugzilla bugs endure forever, they don't get deleted. Even a developer doesn't have an option in the UI to delete a bug, they can only close it. I've filed bunches of systemd bugs. They've always been professionally responded to, and many of those bugs were in fact considered bugs and have been fixed. The rest either were user error, dracut, udev or kernel bugs.
FWIW the reddit you link to has some replies with very reasonable explanations for the behavior you mention. As they state, I think the deal is even if it fails, it failed _after_ it started, and thus the start itself was successful. I think this is reasonable. I also got all log entries when reproducing here (same result as everyone else in that thread).
I'm not saying deleting bugs is cool - at least a WONTFIX or link to a DUP is appropriate - but are you sure it was opened successfully? What was the bug #?
The above said - I do see your point from a usability, if not strict "proper functioning" standpoint; previously for forking services that did some sort of constant time initialization and checking (opening files, sockets, etc) if the initialization failed they could report back and the startup script could return that result - systemd doesn't seem to support that. However there are other problems with the old way too (as you're checking result code I assume you're scripting) - startup could hang and you never get a result.I suppose the solution is similar for both cases - pick a point of time in the future and check if the status is as expected.
Maybe this is a feature request? As stated in the reddit, it only makes sense for forking services. It's not something I'd ever want, but maybe you could give a use case?
SIGDANGER is my middle name
From TFA:
>Wayland's developer documentation is comprised of three different pieces.
Where's that guy from Wikipedia to fix their grammar?
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
low level GUI plumbing. It is X without the networking stuff, and assumes you have a GPU to play around with.
comment first, facts later. http://chem.tufts.edu/AnswersInScience/RelativityofWrong.htm
If so, why?