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Privacy: the 21st Century's Newest Luxury Item

chicksdaddy writes: There is a report today on the 21st century's newest luxury item: online privacy The Christian Science Monitor writes about the growing market for premium privacy protection tools available to tech-savvy consumers with the desire for online anonymity — and the means to pay for it.

The piece profiles new tools from companies like Abine that deliver everything from self-destructing e-mail messages to the 21st century's equivalent of Kleenex: one-off "throwaway" online identities to keep advertisers, merchants and government snoops at bay. Privacy experts, however, doubt that the new tools will tip the scales of online privacy in favor of consumers and away from governments and advertisers. "Consumers really don't have a fighting chance," says Andrea Matwyshyn of Princeton University. "Technology moves entirely too fast."

She and others see the need for both bigger fixes and the level of Internet infrastructure and law. "As a consumer protection matter, there needs to be a floor," she said. "Just as there are laws protecting renters from substandard housing, or car buyers from 'lemons,' there need to be regulations that create a buffer between consumers and companies."

111 comments

  1. Sort of puts the lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    to the oft heard refrain of the power class "if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about".

    Weird that the rich would have ... something to worry about.

    Since work no longer relates to wealth, the psychopaths in charge are right to be afraid.

    1. Re:Sort of puts the lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Since work no longer relates to wealth, the psychopaths in charge are right to be afraid.

      Wealth and work have been disconnected since the days of the Roman Empire.

      If you think people who have learned how to leverage themselves so they can earn
      more wealth are all psychopaths, you are one seriously troubled little boy, and you
      need some quality in-patient psychiatric care.

    2. Re:Sort of puts the lie by ewibble · · Score: 1

      if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about

      Is just a lie, ask anybody in power (well anybody really, apart from close friends and family) if you can have access to their email, and see the response you get. I can just imagine Obama, say of course I have nothing to hide.

      I find it rather ironic that spy agencies, who rely on secrecy to do there job, cannot see why other people may require privacy, for a perfectly valid reason.

       

    3. Re:Sort of puts the lie by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 1

      'Privacy' and 'secrecy' are not the same

    4. Re:Sort of puts the lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Privacy' and 'secrecy' are not the same

      No they are not, but one can certainly be used to justify the other.

    5. Re:Sort of puts the lie by ewibble · · Score: 1

      definition of privacy:

      a state in which one is not observed or disturbed by other people.

      In order to have secrecy you must have some level of privacy, you can't have just anybody watching what you do, it won't be much of a secret will it.

      The statement itself implies both secrecy and privacy.

      if you have nothing to hide (have a secret) you have nothing to worry about (worry about loosing your privacy, by being watched)

    6. Re:Sort of puts the lie by stevez67 · · Score: 1

      Privacy - not a normal state of being for any living being. Secrecy - what the vast majority of people really want when they say they want privacy.

    7. Re: Sort of puts the lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah sparta and communism fuck that

  2. Pointless by fyngyrz · · Score: 3, Informative

    As long as the government's privacy policies and legislation remain as badly broken as they are, what happens in the commercial sector isn't of much significance.

    --
    I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
    1. Re:Pointless by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Pretty much ... if government isn't willing to put limits on what companies can do with your private data, what the rest of us want is meaningless.

      Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people in government who believe that having corporations be allowed to collect, use, share, sell, and otherwise exploit every piece of information about you is somehow a good thing.

      Of course, those people in government are on the payroll of industry, so of course they're going to roll over like bitches for the corporations.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    2. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is "cyber" snake-oil. But as the saying goes, "A sucker is born every minute."

    3. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My thoughts exactly. If we put a floor on such services based on their quality and worth to the customer we'd have to exclude, well, all of them.

    4. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? Every government official has direct ties to the commercial sector. They *rake it in* from these ties. The two are completely in bed with each other.

      Privacy protections will manifest if and only if they protect the interests of a rich person (or corporation). As soon as one wealthy power can economically subvert another wealthy power via privacy-violating means, you will see a meaningful legal battle and a balance struck.

      So long as the only people negatively impacted are the lower and middle class, expect the abuse to run rampant.

      That's how the real world works.

    5. Re:Pointless by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people in government who believe that having corporations be allowed to collect, use, share, sell, and otherwise exploit every piece of information about you is somehow a good thing.

      Free Enterprise

      $$$ = $ for govt.
      $$$$$$ = $$ for govt.

    6. Re:Pointless by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of people in government who believe that having corporations be allowed to collect, use, share, sell, and otherwise exploit every piece of information about you is somehow a good thing.

      Of course there are. It's much easier for the government to spy on you if someone else gathers the data into one convenient place.

      Of course, those people in government are on the payroll of industry, so of course they're going to roll over like bitches for the corporations.

      Nope. They're just people who find that it makes their job easier to have corporations gather the data that the government wants than to have the government go to the trouble of gathering it themselves.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    7. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      There are ways to have privacy, and you are not going to get them by buying some app and letting some company take care of it for you:

      1: Unplug. Yes, unless you need that phone on, it goes off, or into airplane mode. The HTC One M8 has an extreme battery saver mode, when combined with airplane mode, makes a useful alarm clock.

      2: Learn the basics of OpenPGP [1], and build a web of trust. One can even have keysigning parties, and done right, no computers need to be brought over... public key fingerprints and IDs can be printed on pieces of paper, and people can indicate that the printed item is theirs.

      3: Use social networks minimally, if at all.

      4: Use OpenPGP tools on top of messaging and other protocols.

      5: Use a VPN service, or perhaps TOR behind the VPN service, since it is routine for admins to block TOR exit nodes, or any nodes relating to TOR.

      6: Use containers [2] for web browsing, so the social media buttons on one site can't chat with the social media buttons on another.

      7: Check your Web browser against Panopticlick, and fix it so it isn't unique.

      8: Even if one doesn't use TOR, use a VPN. This at least keeps the ground level ISP from modifying your traffic... they have to either block it, throttle it, or let it through... and (for most purposes) can't modify it.

      9: Assume that any data that leaves the machine is available for anyone. Encrypt your stuff, or face the consequences.

      Privacy can't be bought. It needs to be "earned" these days.

      [1]: OpenPGP can be PGP, NetPGP, GnuPG, or any of those tools that use the OpenPGP format.

      [2]: Containers can be VMs, sandboxes, or even separate user accounts.

    8. Re:Pointless by BlueStrat · · Score: 2

      ~Government checklist for initiating drone strikes on domestic threats.~

      If the target adheres to, implements, and/or publicly promotes any individual item or subset from the following, the target may added to the strike list.

      1: Unplug. Yes, unless you need that phone on, it goes off, or into airplane mode. The HTC One M8 has an extreme battery saver mode, when combined with airplane mode, makes a useful alarm clock.

      2: Learn the basics of OpenPGP [1], and build a web of trust. One can even have keysigning parties, and done right, no computers need to be brought over... public key fingerprints and IDs can be printed on pieces of paper, and people can indicate that the printed item is theirs.

      3: Use social networks minimally, if at all.

      4: Use OpenPGP tools on top of messaging and other protocols.

      5: Use a VPN service, or perhaps TOR behind the VPN service, since it is routine for admins to block TOR exit nodes, or any nodes relating to TOR.

      6: Use containers [2] for web browsing, so the social media buttons on one site can't chat with the social media buttons on another.

      7: Check your Web browser against Panopticlick, and fix it so it isn't unique.

      8: Even if one doesn't use TOR, use a VPN. This at least keeps the ground level ISP from modifying your traffic... they have to either block it, throttle it, or let it through... and (for most purposes) can't modify it.

      9: Assume that any data that leaves the machine is available for anyone. Encrypt your stuff, or face the consequences.

      Privacy can't be bought. It is a Class A Felony under secret Federal intelligence service court directives.

      [1]: OpenPGP can be PGP, NetPGP, GnuPG, or any of those tools that use the OpenPGP format.

      [2]: Containers can be VMs, sandboxes, or even separate user accounts.

      FTFY

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    9. Re: Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      technically speaking bill gates or kaspersky could fund a truly secure computer. but at least gates is a business whore. he wouldnt know how to protect the operation from dangerous touchless interference.
      maybe kaspersky has some real soldier skills left to pull it off. but thstcwould imply at least minimal support from his govt. maybe they have contracted the same disease. and surely there is no ex red army intel soldier, as soon as the former co shows up for some casual talk.

    10. Re: Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      all the rich people i know simply dont have the attention span and intellect to pull ANY security operation off. they are too fucked even to do disciplined emcon with their crackberries.

    11. Re:Pointless by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Um, most 'government privacy policies and legislation' is written and paid for by the commercial sector. What is 'broken' about it?

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    12. Re:Pointless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not your property. If you dislike what a corporations is doing with their data, stop doing business with them. Can you follow this, or is it I like my cake and I'll eat it too?

  3. was just going to Facebook to post about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    What a coincidence: I was just logging onto post about our lack of privacy!

    Seriously, we don't have privacy any more because most people don't give a shit about it. They support the most privacy invading companies like FB and Google, they keep voting for the same privacy invading political parties, they keep buying even single player games that spy on their playing behaviors, they keep acting in all ways consistent with giving their privacy away like it means nothing. Some of us were screaming from the rooftops that this was a bad idea and maybe we shouldn't support those things with our purchasing dollars, but nobody listened, and now we have TVs that record everything that happens in your living room and sends it off to be stored on who knows who's server farm. Soon it'll be video from inside your house if it isn't already. And you can be sure the NSA wants its hands all over that shit.

    No, we don't fucking deserve privacy, because at every step of the way, we gave it away with nary a thought to where that road was going to lead. Now we're down that road a ways, and we're getting exactly what it was clear we were going to get.

    Making it illegal won't help, it'll just move it overseas. The only way to fix it is to let it become SO bad that even Joe Sixpack revolts. So bring it, I say. Let it happen. Embrace the Orwell. Only in getting worse, can it get better.

    1. Re:was just going to Facebook to post about this! by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 1

      Speaking of FB's example, my personal opinion is that mass data collection is not wrong; humanizing data about real people's emotion and then profiting from this is wrong.

    2. Re:was just going to Facebook to post about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      apparently google voice search records in a loop so that a few seconds before the request is recorded also.

    3. Re:was just going to Facebook to post about this! by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Calling for the apocalypse are we? You know, the people you are fighting have used nuclear weapons before. They won't hesitate if they feel truly threatened in any way to do it again. They will even do it to enforce copyright if the resistance were able to protect itself from anything less. We are way beyond politics and far into pathology. They will bring it, no problem. You have yet to see the face of your monster.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    4. Re:was just going to Facebook to post about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bingo. Right now, there are few consequences for Joe Beard Oil to be spouting what type of poop and whatever drivel onto the social network.

      However, there will become a time where this is going to start haunting people in days to come. I've listed some scenarios in the past about this. The problem is that a lot of people don't realize who is listening and sifting through posts... even ones that are marked "private".

      One concern which few think about is that not just local LEOs look at posts. For example, if someone makes jokes about the King of Elbonia... and 20 years later, winds up on their soil for a business trip... it might mean getting hauled off to the slammer for a long sentence. There are also extradition treaties, and examples like Kim Dotcom and others show that one can be hauled off and tossed into another country's prison for violating no laws that were in force on the domestic soil.

      Of course, domestic things happen as well. It could happen that the entire concept of the statute of limitations gets repealed, and things people did 20+ years ago are now arrestable offenses, be it a picture of a rave in the 1990s, or pirating a copy of Ultima 3 back in '86. So, posting about some drug parties ages ago on FaceSpace or MyBook is not a good idea.

      Then there are employers and insurance companies. A few years ago when I was interviewing, I had to answer for USENET posts on sci.crypt I had from 1990, and comp.sys.mac.advocacy back in 1992. Think about today and stuff on social networks. There are already companies that sift through posts (private or no) and will flag people are racist if they post something complaining about "press 1 for English." Insurance companies similar. Post about being a member of a battery swallowing society, and one's health insurance gets dropped.

      What I'm waiting for is something where a DA posts an open Wi-Fi hotspot in a park that is closed after dark. After pulling MAC addresses, he then uses that evidence to arrest the phones' owners for criminal trespass about 1-2 years later. Remember, 48 out of 50 states in the US signed an agreement with private prison companies that they keep 90% of their jail/prison beds full... or else pay fines by the hour.

    5. Re: was just going to Facebook to post about this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you should really consider emigration to russia. their prisons are apparently more humane these days that the crapholes you have in america.

  4. Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Informative

    People seem rather keen to rush towards a future where you pay - either in money or time or experience - for more freedom. Either freedom of privacy, or simply ability (like paying more to avoid internet content blocks).

    Happily for most here we have both the technical ability and the funds needed to have "real" digital freedom. But it would be nicer if more of us were more self-aware we have freedoms others do not, and support more efforts to ensure more non-technical users can enjoy the same freedom. Because we understand better what is being lost, we have a duty to call out when we see digital freedoms being taken away from those who do not realize what they are losing.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by itzly · · Score: 1

      Or where you pay for an illusion of privacy, since there's no reason why you could trust a 3rd party device or application.

    2. Re: Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This comment is not available in your country.
      Click here to register, pay and read it.

    3. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by Solandri · · Score: 2

      People seem rather keen to rush towards a future where you pay - either in money or time or experience - for more freedom. Either freedom of privacy, or simply ability (like paying more to avoid internet content blocks).

      You're thinking of it backwards. People willingly give up their privacy for convenience. e.g. Letting Google see all their emails because they don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and running their own mail server. Or letting Facebook see everything they post or comment on because they don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and running their own website.

      Getting things done without giving up your privacy is more complicated. e.g How do you get merchants to ship stuff to you without giving up your home address? You have to rent space at a mailbox store, which can act as a proxy to accept your packages. That complication incurs additional cost which someone (i.e. you) has to pay for. It's completely illogical to think you can get things done the harder way for the same price (free).

    4. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by Qzukk · · Score: 1

      you pay - either in money or time or experience - for more freedom. Either freedom of privacy

      Or you pay for the illusion of privacy, such as getting AT&T with the death star's ever watchful eye on your traffic plus ads for $70 or for only $30 more you can turn off the ads but not turn off the traffic monitoring.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    5. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      hmmm... $30 a month for a "private" connections, which in the fine prints, isn't that private. Or, $40 / year for a vpn. Which should I choose?

    6. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and running their own mail server.

      Not everyone knows how -- you seem to imply that everyone has the technical capacity but is just too lazy.

      letting Facebook see everything ... don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and running their own website.

      Right. It's not because all of people's friends are on Facebook. If you go through the trouble of setting up your own website, your friends still won't see your posts because they will stay on Facebook.

    7. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Getting things done without giving up your privacy is more complicated. e.g How do you get merchants to ship stuff to you without giving up your home address? You have to rent space at a mailbox store, which can act as a proxy to accept your packages. That complication incurs additional cost which someone (i.e. you) has to pay for.

      Actually this one would be trivial to solve at negligible cost if the delivery company would provide the proxy address service. You enter your real address on the delivery company's site, they give you a proxy indicating the right area for shipping cost/tax/fulfillment purposes which you can give to the merchant. They ship it, the delivery company scans the code and deliver it to your house.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:Moving to a future where you pay for freedom by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      People willingly give up their privacy for convenience. e.g. Letting Google see all their emails because they don't want to go through the trouble of setting up and running their own mail server.

      But what's the point in setting up my own server? About 75% of the people I email use gmail, so even if I set up my own server, I still suffer google's creepy mail-stalking whether I like it or not.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
  5. The US needs real consumer protection laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The US needs real consumer protection and data privacy laws, and enforcement actions to back them up. It's been left up to the free market to sort out, and the situation has gotten entirely out of fucking control.

    Check out all these slimeballs scrambling to profit every time you click on a web page. Gathering your data, selling it amongst themselves and to the highest bidders, handing it to the NSA under the table. Your insurance company knows you visited marlboro.com to request a free deck of cards even though you've never smoked in your life. Target knows your daughter is pregnant before she tells anyone. Companies like ChoicePoint and Axciom, who you've never even done any business with, have enormous amounts of data about you, it's the only reason those companies exist. It goes on.

    We've left this situation unregulated for long enough, we need real consumer protection legislation with teeth.

    IT'S TIME FOR REAL PRIVACY LAWS IN AMERICA.

    1. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1, Interesting

      There are real privacy laws in America.

      Just ask Canada. It's a Right in the Canadian Constitution.

      Heck, even Mexico has more privacy rights than the US does. ... oh, you thought the US was America. I'll tell Brazil they belong to Europe ...

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      America = The United States of America
      The Americas = The entire continent

      Yes, it's perhaps a little unfair that we took the name of the continent for ourselves, but we call ourselves "Americans" because it's in our name. Every very other country has a very specific method of referring to their citizens (Canadians, Mexicans, Brazilians, etc), so there's no real ambiguity. And I'd posit that it's fairly rare to have to refer to the citizens of every country on the American continent(s)* - far more common is referring to "North Americans or South Americans".

      Washingtonians have to deal with this as well. If you just say "Washington", most typically assume you're talking about the capitol city of the US. So, everyone's gotten used to simply saying "Washington State" to disambiguate. No other state has to bother with this, but I've never heard anyone complain about it.

      Sorry for the off-topic post, but I've heard this complaint often enough that I wanted to address it.

      * While the USA views North and South America as two continents, many other countries view it as a single continent.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    3. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I was born here too. But I know, having lived in other American countries, that we are NOT the only ones on these two continents to say America and mean where we are (not USA).

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at this distraction. Parent obviously meant USA but this poster tries to bury that argument by saying oh, privacy is just fine on the rest of the American continents.

    5. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Except you ignore NAFTA, FTA, and TPP and other treaties. Consumer Laws used to be at the state level, with few at the national level, but increasingly it's the international treaties that undercut those, and if we are so foolish as to allow China to force us to sign TPP, will be gutted even further.

      I took US and Canadian consumer law classes for a while, my brother is an international lawyer in NYC with BC and CA bars. You can continue to believe this is only decided locally, but it isn't.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    6. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      No, not China. Companies like Phillip Morris is more interested in TPP. It will stamp out the growing Asian and African anti-tobacco campaign. The US (meaning "US" companies) will benefit more than anybody. China of course is a convenient diversion of attention from the real pushers.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    7. Re:The US needs real consumer protection laws by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Privacy is un-American, it gets in the way of corporate profit. I wouldn't hold out any hope for new laws, and whiff of them will attract millions of dollars of lobbying instantly.

      Instead, fight back. Poison the well with bullshit data. Install blocking technology. Help others do the same. Like mass surveillance, the best defence is to make it too expensive and/or ineffective.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  6. 503 service unavailable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    goddamn, I thought Taco was inept.
    What the fuck is with these constant fuckups with the site the last week?!!!

    1. Re:503 service unavailable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      They're trying to push us onto beta. Beta wasn't down during the "fuckup." It's also not useful either because I can read all the stories on the front page just like regular /. (even with the 503) but I couldn't make sense of the threads, the lines are just too damned faint and the font sucks.

  7. One easy first step for the consumer by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Pass a federal law that stipulates the following...

    1. All programs that deal with user activity data and/or PII must have a privacy policy in a centralized location, prominent on the company's web site.
    2. They must be written to the 9th grade reading level and all industry terms must be defined in as close to 9th grade reading level language as possible.
    3. Failure to publish a good faith attempt of a privacy policy within one business week of publishing production code is a civil offense with strict liability.
    4. Failure to comply within 90 business days is a misdemeanor.
    5. A pattern of three or more intentional failures within a five year period is a class E federal felony (1 to 5 years prison).
    6. When done to facilitate other classes of crime, it becomes a class D federal felony (5 to 10 years in prison).

    1. Re:One easy first step for the consumer by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 1

      7. Though shal honor thy Do Not Track requests

    2. Re:One easy first step for the consumer by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      It has to be more than simply having a privacy policy ... because then all it will say is "you have no privacy, suckers".

      You also can't put "intentional" as part of it ... because then all they have to do is say "whoops, we were incompetent".

      Essentially put real and meaningful limits on what a company can do with your data, and real and severe penalties for failing to do it.

      No weasel room of playing semantics to assign blame ... you got a data breach, you are non-compliant.

      And, most importantly, don't let the fucking lobbyists write it so that it's watered down and full of exemptions like they do now -- too often industry just writes something which absolves them of any and all blame, and removes all enforcement.

      Stop allowing corporations to just say "not our fault" or "we're not responsible for being malicious or incompetent".

      It's bloody well time to stop acting like what is good for corporations is good for the rest of us.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:One easy first step for the consumer by schwit1 · · Score: 1

      How do you get non-US companies to abide?

    4. Re:One easy first step for the consumer by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Pfft! Prison for pencil pushers, yeah that'll get 'em! I swear, prison is such a fetish with you people. Does it make you horny? How about just taking their shit, now and for the future, and demoting/firing the offender.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  8. Not a matter of trust by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Or where you pay for an illusion of privacy

    You can pay (through time spent) for real privacy through verification of all network traffic on your network.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not a matter of trust by itzly · · Score: 1

      You can only watch the traffic from your own machine, and even then it's a hopeless task to sort it all out. I have at least 10 IP connected devices in my home, of which 5-6 may be on-line at a given time, and 4 of them controlled by other family members, with potentially hundreds of packets per second generated.

    2. Re:Not a matter of trust by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I have at least 10 IP connected devices in my home

      And that is where the other payment would be in limited the number of devices, and the way they were used.

      That's why I said it could be done - at a cost.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:Not a matter of trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, that doesn't help. Once the packet goes out of your network it isn't private at all. Your ISP knows everything you do (if they want to). I'm not sure what you are "verifying".

    4. Re:Not a matter of trust by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      That's why I said it could be done - at a cost.

      Well yeah, like approaching the speed the light, the cost approaches infinite.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  9. As we say: Go Dumb by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1, Interesting

    You don't need your TV to monitor your conversation so that you get even less exercise than pressing a button.

    You don't need a smartphone if all you do is listen to music and get bus times and stock quotes and news briefs.

    Embrace Dumbness. Reject Smart Technology.

    Besides, we're already recording you and using your cell and phone and Net providers to track you. Don't help us even more.

    This includes answering those stupid FB polls that just let us collect more data on you.

    Rip FB out of your phone.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by geekmux · · Score: 2

      You don't need your TV to monitor your conversation so that you get even less exercise than pressing a button.

      You don't need a smartphone if all you do is listen to music and get bus times and stock quotes and news briefs.

      Embrace Dumbness. Reject Smart Technology.

      Besides, we're already recording you and using your cell and phone and Net providers to track you. Don't help us even more.

      This includes answering those stupid FB polls that just let us collect more data on you.

      Rip FB out of your phone.

      Your advice makes perfect sense, which is exactly why dumb devices will soon be illegal to own.

      Oh, think you'll be smart and just not configure networking to ensure your privacy? Cute, but nice try. They'll soon tie the license and EULA directly to networking, to ensure it is enabled 100% of the time, to all but guarantee the advertising capability behind that marketing-supplemented price tag.

      You're right. You don't need any of these features. Then again, you didn't ask for them, which also explains just how much control you have in this situation. Now, or in the future.

      Thank you for the advice. Too bad we can't do a damn thing about it.

    2. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      I went one better: I got rid of my phone.

      My laptop might as well be a desktop, it goes nowhere now.

      When I go out I don't need music to distract me, because I'm in the sticks. I want to hear the silence of the countryside (and there is a spot where it is totally silent - just four miles away from Nottingham city centre! You can hear the blood rushing through your ears). I need to be able to hear the bending grass as the rabbit steps over, and that satisfying slap as the pellet blats through its skull at 630 feet per second tells me I'm eating good fresh untainted meat that evening.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    3. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Your advice makes perfect sense, which is exactly why dumb devices will soon be illegal to own.

      Oh, think you'll be smart and just not configure networking to ensure your privacy? Cute, but nice try. They'll soon tie the license and EULA directly to networking, to ensure it is enabled 100% of the time, to all but guarantee the advertising capability behind that marketing-supplemented price tag.

      You're right. You don't need any of these features. Then again, you didn't ask for them, which also explains just how much control you have in this situation. Now, or in the future.

      Thank you for the advice. Too bad we can't do a damn thing about it.

      You could always damage the circuit which does the reporting. This may generate a fault, but since you own the device, and it's your property, an act like removing a bridge jumper or cutting a capacitor on the circuit should suffice.

      Or just find out where the IOT connects and disconnect that.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      since you own the device

      LOL, you naive fool! Don't you know there's a "War On Property" going on, where copyright holders everywhere are trying their damnedest to make their Imaginary Property rights superior to your right to control the physical device that their Imaginary Property happens to be in?

      "Your" computer? You don't own it. "Your" cellphone? You don't own it. "Your" TV? You don't own it. Even your car? Fuck, you're lucky they even let you open the hood without being a "Manufacturer Certified mechanic!" (It'll already allegedly void the warranty -- even though the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act says it shouldn't -- but at least it isn't entirely illegal... yet.)

      And the "Internet of Things?" Well, the manufacturers have realized that if a device doesn't have Imaginary Property in it, then "consumers" will still own it, and that's intolerable. So what's their solution? Infect every product with Imaginary Property! Pretty soon, the only place you'll be able to buy anything without being forced to electronically consent to some bullshit contract of adhesion will be places like Goodwill and Craigslist... at least until the Copyright Cartel finishes making it illegal to resell used goods.

      (You know, a few years ago if I read something like the above I'd think the writer was a paranoid lunatic. But now I'm forced to believe it. Fuck.)

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    5. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Look back at the beginning of the information superhighway and you'll see I was there long before you civilians even knew about it.

      My name might not appear the same way, but I was there.

      Now realize your trade deals are trying to sell your Rights to corporations, but we all know they aren't people, so they don't have Rights.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    6. Re:As we say: Go Dumb by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      They'll soon tie the license and EULA directly to networking, to ensure it is enabled 100% of the time

      That's been happening for decades. Must be going on 20 years now since satellite TV broadcasters started having PPV and other such services via their set top boxes, and requiring periodic connection to a phone line in order to do billing. I remember people used to get nastygrams from Sky if they unplugged their STB from the phone line for too long and it couldn't report back to the mothership, even if they never used PPV. Eventually if you didn't plug it in they would just cut off your service but keep charging you until your contract was up.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  10. Usr Anonymous Networks, Become Politically Active by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To beat these fuckers you MUST do TWO things...

    1) Use Anonymous Networks and crypto everywhere by default such as I2P, Tor, Pond, GnuNet, Phantom, CJDNS, gnupg, etc... it's easy, fun and cool :-)

    2) Become politically active so that you get the laws written that YOU want, instead of getting the laws THEY want.

    If you want to win, YOU MUST DO BOTH.
    If you cheap out on either one of them you will lose.

  11. Make up your damn minds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Do you want a government that has the power and resources to "solve problems" or "take care of [insert your pet cause/group here]"? Such a government WILL abuse that power. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.

    Or do you want your privacy and a government that doesn't have the power to oppress you?

    You can't have Obamacare without the NSA.

    1. Re:Make up your damn minds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't have Obamacare without the NSA.

      Funny, it seems to me that the NSA is completely independent of Obamacare what with it predating it and all. I bet it would absolutely be possible to have Obamacare without the NSA.

    2. Re:Make up your damn minds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't have Obamacare without the NSA.

      Funny, it seems to me that the NSA is completely independent of Obamacare what with it predating it and all. I bet it would absolutely be possible to have Obamacare without the NSA.

      Yep, you're a fool. The idea that governments abuse the powers they have goes right over your head.

      You think you can give a government the power to do something like Obamacare and it wouldn't abuse that power by creating something like the NSA?

      And guess what? The private data our government is going to collect on us through Obamacare will dwarf what the NSA collects through mass surveillance.

    3. Re: Make up your damn minds by Esteanil · · Score: 1

      Yup. I agree completely. Here in Norway we've had public health care for so long, the NSA is just a front for the Norwegian intelligence agencies planted by our royal family during WWII and operating within your government ever since.

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    4. Re: Make up your damn minds by Esteanil · · Score: 1

      Yup. I agree completely. Here in Norway we've had public health care for so long, the NSA is just a front for the Norwegian intelligence agencies planted by our royal family during WWII and operating within your government ever since...

      --
      I'm a dreamer, the world is my playpen. But hey, I'm a serious person, I can't dream all the time.
    5. Re:Make up your damn minds by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Who cares about the damn data? Just don't let the bastards lock you up for it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  12. Assumption is the mother... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You: I have both the technical ability and the funds needed to have "real" digital freedom.
    Coercive authority: Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons.

    Take a wild guess who wins this battle. (The "puny weapons" are just a cynical metaphor for the power of coercion.)

  13. Max Headroom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "She'll get years for that. Off switches are illegal!"

  14. if "Technology moves entirely too fast.".... by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    then the "floor" she asks for will move too fast as well; with or without law.

  15. No Privacy by tquasar · · Score: 2

    This site uses five or more tracking cookies. What the heck? Why pretend to be friendly to users and still use methods to spy on ones visitors?

  16. Privacy is no luxury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A luxury is something you can obtain.

  17. online privacy is a myth by ihtoit · · Score: 2

    Think about it: if you have accounts on any website that offers it for "free", and that includes Slashdot, ANYTHING you post on them, any email you send through GMail, or Yahoo, or MSN/Hotmail, any photo you post on Facebook, any tweet you send, from the moment it hits the site and regardless of "privacy" settings, belongs to the company that owns the service. You're not a valued client to them for the simple reason that you're not paying out of your pocket for the service. What you're *giving* these companies is something far more valuable: your personal data. This they use to target ads, to collect statistical data, and yes, to track you as an individual through trackable crumbs left on your computer and through your online accounts.

    Don't take my word for it, have a proper read through the terms and conditions on these sites. Somewhere in there, in not so many words, hidden in among the boilerplate, is the phrase, "WE OWN YOUR DATA".

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:online privacy is a myth by itzly · · Score: 1

      What you're *giving* these companies is something far more valuable: your personal data

      If I don't watch their ads, how valuable is this data really ?

    2. Re:online privacy is a myth by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 1

      me@first.last.net

    3. Re:online privacy is a myth by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      nice if you've got last.net email domain to validate your account on.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    4. Re:online privacy is a myth by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      doesn't matter, they're getting paid by the page impression, clickthrough referrals are a bonus.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  18. Re:Usr Anonymous Networks, Become Politically Acti by ihtoit · · Score: 2

    fuck all that shit, if you want privacy online, DO SHIT OFFLINE.

    Anyone else remember way back when we actually had to go face to face for human interaction because international calls cost a fucking fortune? Facebook has killed not only the art of conversation, but it has also seriously harmed the human psyche in terms of our ABILITY to socialise in what scant twenty years ago would have been considered normal modes of interaction.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  19. If it's a US company it can be served with a NSL by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    Abine Inc., 280 Summer Street, Boston, MA 02210. Then what? Remember Lavabit.

  20. Re:Usr Anonymous Networks, Become Politically Acti by itzly · · Score: 2

    Anyone else remember way back when we actually had to go face to face for human interaction because international calls cost a fucking fortune?

    Yeah, because international face to face meetings were so much cheaper than a phone call.

  21. No, privacy is not an item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    'Privacy' is not an item, as little as 'safety' is an item'

    1. Re:No, privacy is not an item by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is capitalism, my friend. ANYTHING can be monetized and sold, even abstract concepts you thought were inherent to your own existence.

  22. It was for the bulk of human history, too by argStyopa · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "Privacy" as formulated in 2015 is frankly a fairly modern concept. As much as people seem to assert "we used to have privacy" I suspect it was about as real as the 'Father Knows Best' prototypical TV family - ie not really.

    For the bulk of human existence, we have lived in small family or clan groups. This meant that everyone not only knew everything about you, but (usually) everything about everyone you were related to, and your ancestors. Had a crazy g'great grandfather that got caught cheating on his wife? Everyone knows, and likely expects that you're not terribly faithful either. Mother was a drunk? Everyone knows, and expects you're probably a drunk too. You said bad things about the clan chief, odds are eventually he knew. You were not only responsible for what you said or believed, you were frequently called to account for it (fairly or not).

    Privacy - the very concept of anonymity - was extraordinarily limited until literacy was widespread, and even then the idea that you'd write something and nobody knew who wrote it was ridiculous really until the printing press, and even then the number of people involved meant your risk of discovery probably was a steeper curve than your audience breadth until the modern era, and small-shop copy machines/mimeographs.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:It was for the bulk of human history, too by phorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We had more privacy simply because information was limited by a lack of technology. Pre-internet, you could often move away from your past, your drinking escapades weren't posted on somebody's Facebook feed, and when the government wanted to watch you, it required a certain degree of manpower and physical retention that meant it generally wasn't worth it for trivial details.

    2. Re:It was for the bulk of human history, too by bluegutang · · Score: 2

      As usual, what matters is not what has been gained or lost, but the imbalance in who is gaining or losing.

      Corporations know everything about what you do. You know little about what corporations do.
      The government know everything about what you do. You know little about what the government does.

      This is just like the problem with automation of jobs. If jobs can be done by robots and humans can relax and have fun, that's good. If all the robots are owned by a handful of corporations, so all the profits go to them while normal people starve, that's bad.

      In each case all the benefits go to a very small number of people, while the costs come from everyone.

      I would be OK with the police recording me if I could also record the police - but somehow, it's not working out that way in practice.

    3. Re: It was for the bulk of human history, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very insightfull thread. Large cities were the first constructs thaT allowed anonymitY. Relatively new concept for humans.

    4. Re:It was for the bulk of human history, too by Tempest451 · · Score: 1

      If I wanted to commit a crime, I would like to record the police as well. Would be very helpful in knowing how they operate.

    5. Re:It was for the bulk of human history, too by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      A better word would be 'obscurity'. Your Dad might know that you drink, but the rest of the world didn't. Now, just search your name and boom there's that photo of you holding a bottle of JD with puke all over your shirt.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    6. Re:It was for the bulk of human history, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Privacy is a very old concept. There is a reason why we didn't have to invent the word in 2015, along with other words like 'secret', 'gossip', 'nosy', 'spy'. It is such an old and entrenched concept that many people believe it is a basic human need, and why lack of it can be used as a punishment. But I guess you can set up an undefined strawman about 'as formulated in 2015' and knock it down.

      So yes, when your secrets became public knowledge they cease being private. In all your examples I'm sure the people involved didn't particularly want it to be public knowledge, and would have much rather kept it private. The whole concept around 'caught cheating' is a private affair that was exposed, and I can assure you that many many private affairs were not exposed and not known by everyone and the people involved very protective about their privacy.

  23. "buffer between consumers and companies" by Let's+All+Be+Chinese · · Score: 1

    This is well-meaning but actually a mistake, for it reinforces this power imbalance between two types of actors, (big) "companies" and (small) "consumers" where you could work on balancing the imbalance instead.

    How? By working on systems that allow for everyone to be a first-class citizen within the system, having different capabilities arise from the relationships between actors rather than from their entry point to the system. As an example, classic big corp "identity" systems provide for exactly one identity per actor and moreover know two classes of citizen: Those that "provide identitiy", and those that get identified. This is wrong.

    A proper system only provides for, essentially, transporting actors' identity claims that can then be backed by any other actor, making everyone a first-class actor. The truth of such claims then depends on the veracity of the backing to the claims.

    Meaning that a passport's identity claim is only valid when backed by a recognised government (rather its avatar, if you will, within such a system), but that you only get access to Auntie Bee's party if your identity claim is backed by someone she recognises. To the system, it makes no difference. To its users, it makes quite a lot of difference. Moreover, the system only says that the claims aren't forged, whether they're any good otherwise is up to the users. And that's exactly how the division of labour for using such a system should be.

    This is entirely different from the usual way, and also why, say, something like NSTIC is really a government control vehicle: It makes most ordinary users second-class citizens, and doesn't allow for multiple identities, quite unlike how most people live their daily lives. That last bit might surprise you, but it is true. You have multiple identities for all that they quite often share names. Your identity toward your spouse is quite different from your identity toward your workplace, at least for most of us, for example. Or if you're in school, your identity toward your teachers is different from your identity toward your friends. In some cases the differences can become extreme enough that you really don't want one group to even know about your identity toward another. If we're allowing the one identity per person model to become dominant, you'll get to learn the hard way just how oppressive having (to have) a facebook profile can become.

    The thing is that the internet allows us to build such first-class-citizen-only systems, and moreover that we can put "zero-knowledge proofs" right at the hearts of such systems, thereby providing systems with reasonable to good privacy yet that are hard to abuse. That way, even the smallest party can deal with the largest parties on a virtually (oh the meta) equal footing. This means you don't have to fool around with laws that then need enforcement. The protection is built right into the system.

    We could have this. Now that I told you, all we need is to build it.

  24. Re:Stretch muh asshole bro! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was your iPhone 6+ in his asshole already?

  25. To force change... by Nexion · · Score: 1

    attack them with loads of false data. Make their data worthless and they will have to adapt. Hopefully by moving towards strong user privacy and consent policies.

  26. Re:Stretch muh asshole bro! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nah, we don't share so we don't cross contaminate each other.

  27. Privacy: the 21st Century's Snake Oil by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FTFY.

  28. There need to be regulations ... by paul+mafinga · · Score: 1

    ...or they can track the initial visit to a high quality proxy being run by a reputable person or company, perhaps in another country if that's what it takes.

    The idea that only regulations and government can solve problems is corrosive.

    1. Re:There need to be regulations ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah screw using regulation for the common good!

    2. Re:There need to be regulations ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea that only regulations and government can solve problems is corrosive.

      No, they are the best ideas, given that the corporate sector cannot be trusted, at all.

  29. Re:Usr Anonymous Networks, Become Politically Acti by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    uh... whoosh?

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  30. "privacy protection tools" by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

    One thing cool about the rich, not all of them are very smart. Business in the snake oil trade is always very good. These are the same people who buy "unbreakable DRM" also, right? What the hell, let's milk 'em for all they got.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  31. Yours is a broken argument by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't forget that this knowledge was mutual: Everyone else knew everything about you, and you, about them just as much. Since knowledge is power, both sides knowing everything balances the power in the relationship. This gets harder in cities, and now with the internet much harder still. Thus we have information asymmetry and therefore a power imbalance. The simple fix is to make sure both sides know nothing, hence privacy.

    It's a challenge because lots of previous assumptions will have to be revisited, processes amended to work without assumptions you know much of anything about the other party. Note that lots of fraud hinges on passing false required information as true. Make the same process not require the information at all, and the fraud becomes impossible because meaningless. So yes, the visibility of privacy as a concept has increased massively, mostly because the need for it have also has become so much more visible, and pressing.

  32. affordable anonymity by swell · · Score: 1

    If you have a name like Ichabod Rumpelstiltskin you will find it hard to hide on the internet. Change it to John or Mary Smith and you will be difficult to pinpoint. Change it to common words and searching you out will be nearly impossible. Consider words like 'and', 'the', 'if', or 'swell'. You could start a baseball team and call it Who's On First. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
  33. Privacy is for the ultra rich ... by hEpen · · Score: 1

    and the ultra poor.

  34. cameras and physical privacy by slothman32 · · Score: 1

    When I read the title I was thinking of cameras and such - until I read all the cyberprivacy stuff.
    It seems to apply to that too.
    Since poor people need to go through public places to get to food stores, private, they need to go through 2 sets of cameras.
    "You have no expection of privacy in public," and, "It's private so they can do whatever they want," statements are used.

    A poor person can't hire someone else and must go themselves and hence be caught on camera.

    --
    Why don't you guys have friends or journals?
  35. Why pay if you can get privacy for free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For example: iptables -I OUTPUT -d 31.13.93.0/24 -j REJECT