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An Evidence-Based Approach To Online Dating
HughPickens.com writes Rachel Nuwer writes in the NYT that Dr. Sameer Chaudhry's online dating persona was garnering no response from the women he reached out to so he synthesized 86 literature studies on the subject of online dating in the fields of psychology, sociology, and computer, behavioral, and neurocognitive sciences.in hopes of improving his odds. As it turns out, success begins with picking a user name. While men are drawn to names linked to physical traits (e.g., Cutie), the researchers found, women prefer ones that indicate intelligence (e.g., Cultured). Both sexes respond well to playful names (e.g. Fun2bwith) and shy away from ones with negative connotations (e.g., Bugg). User names that begin with letters from the first half of the alphabet do better than those from the latter half. "As human beings, we have a tendency to give things at the top of a pile more value," says Khan. As for your profile photo, pick a photo with a genuine smile, one that crinkles the eyes, and with a slight head tilt (it's linked to attractiveness). And if you're looking for a male partner, go for that photo of you in siren red—a color that enhances men's attraction to women. "For those attracted to browse into the profile, a description of personal traits increased likeability when it: showed who the dater was and what they were looking for in a 70:30 ratio; stayed close to reality; and employed simple language with humor added. Invitations were most successful in obtaining a response from the potential date when they: were short personalized messages addressing a trait in their profile; rhymed with their screen name or headline message; and extended genuine compliments." And finally, don't wait too long before arranging a face to face meeting.
Do not spend your time synthesizing literature studies.
He should have just gone for an arranged marriage.
Anyone who follows this advice deserves what they get.
The age old advice still stands: be yourself.
If someone wants you for who you're not, rather than who you are, you are better off just moving on. Here's what I posted on my blog years ago after marrying a wonderful woman I met on Plenty of Fish:
I was recently reading the front page of plentyoffish.com, a dating web site where my wife and I first met (we recreated a joint account to submit a testimonial), that provided a very long, detailed opinion piece to a young man about how to behave in order to win a girl that he was very attracted to. It was from a so-called dating expert, and contained some of the worst drivel that men cling to in hopes of landing a wife.
The given advice was to act distant, indifferent, and aloof; that showering her with affection made him look desperate and goofy. We men turn to this kind of garbage when we're not having much luck with women. We turn to this crap when we actually do become desperate.
It took me a long time to realize what should have been self-evident all along: the old advice of just being yourself is, by far, the best advice you could possibly get. Being yourself isn't intended to improve upon the quantity of women you attract. It is intended to improve upon the quality of women you attract. Not surprisingly, the exact same advice applies equally to women. Don't follow those stupid "rules" such as not making the first move. All those rules are complete and utter crap, and will just make you even more miserable than you already are.
All the little head games and misdirections that you have learned are intended to achieve one thing: a brief relationship. They are not the doorway to a lasting marriage, but rather just the path to multiple meaningless disappointments. You will not be able to maintain the charade you have built, and will always fail in the long run. She will always see through you eventually. You will eventually slip up and expose yourself for the fraud you are, and you will be back to square one.
If she is not interested in who you really are, then you do not want her (regardless of what your hormones may tell you). It doesn't matter how pretty, gorgeous, sexy, or otherwise desirable she may seem. If she is not attracted to who and what you are, then any meaningful relationship with her is doomed. She will eventually (but usually quickly) tire of you, and move on to the next guy.
I am a software developer, and spend most of my time in front of a computer. When I was dating, I tried hard to hide that from my dates. All the advice I had been given was that women were turned off by the kind of geeky guy who spent that much time with his computer. I tried to list other interests on the dating site (tenuous as those interests were), tried focusing on what I thought women wanted, and every other trick I could think of that was even remotely true (and some that were very much not true when I reached a certain point of disillusion). Maintaining the illusion was very difficult, as that isn't who I am.
In the end, it was those very traits that my wife tells me were the most attractive to her. It turns out that her life had been full of too much stress, anxiety, and drama. An easy-going, caring, intelligent, homebody of a man is exactly what she had been looking for, and couldn't find, for a very long time (we were both in our late 30's). She would not have been at all interested in the man I had tried pretending to be, but was hopelessly in love with the man I actually am. Who we really are is what allows us to connect on a very deep, lasting level.
It took us both a very long time to find each other (strictly speaking, she found me), and we both suffered some horrible emotional scarring in our prior lives apart, but that scarring is what allowed us to appreciate what we have together.
So although it may hurt in the short term, it's better to be rejected by women for who you are than to be accepted by women for who you are not. You will eventually find that woman who will love you for who you are, even if you have to go through many painful rejections along the way. The women who accept you for who they want you to be will always desert you. No exceptions.
yep, women makes lists of features they want in a mate. 70%- 80% is about not only what they settle for but what they want since they want a lifelong project to change a man into their image. 100% perfect is too boring
If it's for a life partner, it's the result of a gross misconception. Your profile in dating sites is supposed to restrict your responses to those from people you might get along with, not to maximize responses. Of course you want to maximize responses from people suited to you, so you might want to refrain from posting pictures in unflattering lighting or of, say, your penis being inserted into a meat grinder (even if well lit). Unless it's really important to you that your would-be partner approves of that kind of thing, I suppose - in this case, it might be justifiable. At least you'll be getting messages to ask if the grinder was turned on. And you could respond with "no, but you'll be". You know what? Screw my hasty reproach, it sounds like the best idea I ever had.
Are you changing your nicknames to As671 ?
Sounds like a match...
# touch universe # chmod +rwx universe #
I perfunctorily looked at TFA, and it doesn't mention height at all. This is ridiculous, and any man with even the most basic experience with online dating knows that height is perhaps the most important number in your online profile. The higher that number is, the more likely one is to receive invitations from women. I actually made an experiment, once, where I created to fake profiles that were almost identical, except for height, and the profile that had a height 10 cm larger than the other, got about 40 TIMES more contact requests (175 cm vs. 190 cm).
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
The age old advice still stands: be yourself.
Certainly, but most people want to make a good first impression. And most people here are willing to study how to do that. Or are you suggesting that people here should not be true to themselves, that in this special case they should go with their gut instead of studying and learning from more knowledgeable people like they would any other issue?
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
I am diagnosed autistic, balding, stack shelves for a living, have a huge comics web site and my favorite topic is tax reform. But I am also 6 foot 6. So I was never short of dates on OKCupid.
(All of that is true BTW)
And I am currently engaged to the most wonderful woman in the world, thanks to the aforementioned site: She is beautiful, sexy, intelligent, capable, funny, incredibly kind, etc. and was only single because people found her own height intimidating (she is north of 6 foot). She replied to my initial contact specifically because of my height. Since then we found other things in common, but not until the 2nd or 3rd email.
So is height one of the top reasons for dating? HELL YES.
That's why I always start with penis pictures. I'm still single.
Mostly random stuff.
So *that's* why I'm still single!
I'm not sure it's possible with current machine earning algorithms, but attempting a match without a computer is disasterous. For instance, I married a beautiful 23 y/o with an education and a good job and now 10 years later she's a 48 y/o crack whore. IDENTITY FRAUD IS SERIOUS. Keep your systems patched.
In other words, don't be yourself, try to be something you are not in order to attract someone who then hopefully will be willing to settle when they find out who you really are. Brilliant! Just start the whole relationship on the basis of deception.
This works great in business. You get somebody hooked on your product with a bunch of promises and by the time they find out they are too deep in to back out. Not sure how well it works in relationships. Oh, wait, the divorce rate continues to rise even though there is a huge jump in the number of couples living together and not getting married at all. Huh, I guess founding your relationship on a lie is a bad idea after all.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Gee, you've made me realize my 18 year old marriage will go up in smoke any minute now, I'm so scared. Shoulda stayed single. Should never have had those children.
Marriage can work if both people want it to work.
When I met my wife online some 12 years ago my profile photo was me in my renaissance festival garb, complete with a Cyrano mask, so she couldn't see what I looked like. We'll be celebrating our 10th anniversary in a couple of months.
Looks change over time. If you are that fixated on appearance, I would doubt that you're going to have a happy marriage as you get older.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
As someone in a relationship of 11 years and going (about half of that married) with someone I met online... The thing with starting with someone you know meet face to face, is that the first criterias that got you together is physical location and possibly physical appearance. The former is definitely convenient, the later is necessary to most people, but neither are usually the first thing of importance for a potential long running relationship.
If the first thing that gets you with someone is some kind of mutual interest (in my case, it was videogames and computer science interests), you start from there, there happens to be physical appeal too, and then you fix the location, things are much more likely to work out.
You can do that in person to with specialty interest groups (ie: I could have met someone at PAX or something...), and things can go wrong if you do it wrong (pick someone by their picture on match.com), but generally, it seems to be by far the easiest way to go, meet online by interest.
I met my wife online some 12 years ago, our 10th anniversary is in June. Prior to her I had mixed results with online dating, I followed the 'to thine own self be true' model and had a very honest profile. I think that my takeaway from my experience was that it takes time and doesn't give instant results. My wife found me: I lived 500 miles away from her at the time and wasn't searching that broad a radius, she was running in to little but ignorant rednecks and broadened her search radius, finding me. It looks to me like you can keep your profile honest by following the FA's advice, you're just optimizing a bit to try to improve results. If I were looking, I'd definitely give it some serious consideration.
I'm definitely forwarding this to a friend who lost his wife a bit over a year ago and hasn't been having much luck with online dating.
When you sympathize with stupidity, you start thinking like an idiot.
Anyone who follows this advice deserves what they get.
The age old advice still stands: be yourself.
There is nothing in this article recommending what to lie about or how to trick someone into dating you. It is about how to put your best foot forward online. It is no different than telling someone to dress nice when you first meet someone or don't talk about yourself too much on a first date.
It has advice like "ask open questions", "respond promptly", "introduce humor", "do smile", "pay genuine compliments", etc. Oh how manipulative these recommendations are!
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
There's more to looks than the face. Maybe it was the codpiece?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Women lie about what they want. They even lie to themselves what they want.
Some women. And from the discussion here, some men are equally likely to lie.
When they think they have found what they want, they change the lie to themselves so it is completely different. You will never win.
You've been dating the wrong sort of women. Try finding those with whom you have some common feeling. If none exist, the problem is with you.
Never bet half your lives earnings on a woman. She will end up taking it every time. It is just too tempting of a quick get rich scheme for them not to do it.
I "bet half my life's earnings" more than 20 years ago. We're still going strong, with teenagers at school and university.
If it's for a life partner, it's the result of a gross misconception. Your profile in dating sites is supposed to restrict your responses to those from people you might get along with
No, this is a gross misconception. A profile tells you almost nothing about whether you will get along with that person. You just want to meet as many people as possible that meet your basic qualifications. I am happily married, and have two kids with a woman I met through match.com. There was nothing about her profile that said "this is the one". I didn't know that until we met, and a coffee at Starbucks was extended into a dinner and a long walk in the park. At that point, I had been using match.com for about a year, I had sent hundreds of invitations, and met more than 30 women face-to-face. Many of them were nothing like what their profile described. A few of them were a bit out of my league, and didn't respond to my followups. Three of them led to relationships that lasted at least a few weeks, and one of those led to a family.
As a successful user of on-line-dating, here are my suggestions:
1. Be honest, but highlight your good points.
2. Avoid anything that could be perceived as "creepy".
3. Mention that you like dogs or horses (unless you don't).
4. Put up multiple pictures of yourself, doing active stuff, especially if it involves dogs or horses.
5. When you send an invitation, mention some things from her profile, and compliment her on something specific.
6. Move as quickly as possible to a face-to-face meeting, usually within a few days.
7. Keep the first meeting short and simple. A coffee at Starbucks is good.
8. Go to the gym right before your date.
9. Have realistic expectations
When I would send initial invitations, I got about a 30% response rate, which I have heard is very good. Early in the week, I would send about 10 or 12. I would get 3 or 4 responses. We would send a few messages back and forth, and then I would suggest we talk on the phone, and send my number. If she called, and sounded like a nice person, I would try to set up a face-to-face. I would usually meet one or two women for coffee dates over the weekend. If we hit it off, I would sometimes ask to extend the date into dinner, and I would followup with an email or phone call later that night. But for every invitation I sent, I had only about a 10% chance of meeting her, and only a 1% chance of anything beyond a single meeting. You need to cast a big net.
You've been dating the wrong sort of women. Try finding those with whom you have some common feeling. If none exist, the problem is with you.
I don't know about the OP, but I'm an engineer, and women interested in dating engineers don't seem to exist. Maybe I'm the problem, but I don't know how to not be an engineer, and how to change myself into a salesguy or a marketer or a CEO, nor do I think it's realistic to think I could completely change my personality that way.
The main problem I have in dating, truthfully, is actually meeting women to date. I've always had this problem. As an engineer, I just don't come into personal contact with women very often in life: women don't go into engineering majors in college, or into engineering jobs afterwards. So I'm limited to meeting women in just a few ways: 1) hope to meet them at work somehow, among the few non-engineers I run into (which doesn't happen much), 2) run into them IRL somehow, like when standing in line (how often does this happen???), 3) meet them at some kind of singles function, or 4) meet them on a dating site online. None of these are particularly great ways to meet compatible people; #4 is theoretically the best, but in practice doesn't work out well because so few women actually use such sites, as they have no trouble getting picked up IRL somewhere, so the women who do use such sites are usually the leftovers who can't get a date any other way. Now throw in that I'm not so young any more, and women in my target age range (30s) are mostly married with kids (or divorced with kids and nearly unable to date because they have no time away from their kids), and the situation is very bleak.
My advice is to find a really good partner when you're in college, and don't graduate until you do. Go for a Master's or a second degree or something if you haven't found someone. After you leave college, it's all downhill.
yep, women makes lists of features they want in a mate.
Technically 100% true, because so do men. If someone claims not to, they are almost certainly deluding themselves. However, your choice of ascribing a universal human trait only to women makes me susspicious that you have a strong "us versus them" attitude, and almost certainly a lot of misplaced ideas based on what all of womankind wants. That is of course doomed to failure since to a very good approximation there are no universal truthes about "all of women".
70%- 80% is about not only what they settle for but what they want since they want a lifelong project to change a man into their image.
Well, that's bullshit, in that it's not universally true. Unless of course you consider any compromise at all to fall under that.
100% perfect is too boring
No one's 100% perfect. If you try to wait for someone 100% perfect you will never find them.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
To me it doesn't sound like you are quite the catch yourself at this point, so perhaps those "leftovers" women might just be up your alley. Perhaps going for a divorced with kids, but above average is also an option.
Not trying to be an asshole, but it sounds like you are being picky, and that is why you don't have much to choose from.....
Yeah, probably.... :-(
Honestly, when I think about it, and considering the 50+% divorce rate and the huge number of children raised in broken homes and by single parents, it seems like our society's model for creating and building relationships is utterly broken.
Perhaps try a 'better' or different dating site? ... or simply do something exotic. There are plenty of sports where women train together with men. And like in everything: the amount of divorced or otherwise solo girls is in such an area just the same as everywhere else. Benefit: even if a women is slightly overweight, if they do sport they usually are attractive nevertheless (better muscles, more charisma, more self confidence).
I recommend http://www.okcupid.com/ plenty of women there who like engineers.
Regarding dating women with kids, there is that invention of a baby sitter. You could help her organize one. Sure, you might be asked or feel obliged to pay for the sitter.
Also you might find it possible to 'date' her including the kid, like going into a zoo or a circus (cinema only works if you have time before or after the movie).
Another way to meet women in RL is to make sports. Go dancing. Best sport ofc is martial arts, some where groups are mixed gender. Karate, Aikido etc. even Judo is usually mixed gender. Or Caipoera, Escrima, Silat
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
AntDude is a turn off? :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
What you do isn't likely to be a draw unless it is exotic, either by virtue of rarity, or by virtue of publicly visible achievement (CEO of a major company, etc.)
Who you are, on the other hand, is something you demonstrate with everything you do. Worthwhile women (as opposed to self-destructive barflies and NASCAR fans) are most often looking for several things, usually in the following order.
First, looks and character. You don't have to be a beautiful man, but you will do best if you carry yourself with confidence, and no matter what you should be clean and smell good or at least not smell bad, you need to groom your hair, keep your fingernails and sweaty parts extremely clean without telegraphing obsession, and you should dress like someone who can afford to dress well, because...
Second, security. You should project the sense that being with you is a better state than being without you. A nice car, a nice ring or watch, clean clothes in excellent shape, these send two messages: that you will spend for comfort and that you can spend. Most women of breeding age (even if you're not interested in having kids, I assume you're still interested in going through the motions) are looking for a fellow who is able and willing to make that nest. That's true even if they say, and if they really mean, they don't want kids themselves. Security is a very good thing, and they've been seriously tuned up by evolution to seek it out. Also, as a life goal, a great nest is an excellent thing to aim for, to achieve, and to share.
On the subject of security, kill any debt you have if humanly possible. You'll have more money in the end. A debt-free person is a lot more attractive than one who brings such things to a relationship. This isn't always achievable, but if you can get out of debt and/or avoid it entirely, you definitely should. Financial rule #1: You don't want to pay interest. You want to charge interest.
Once you are interacting, STFU and listen. You can initiate conversations, and steer them, and you should, but you need to be a good listener more than anything else. Let her speak and encourage her to speak more, and visibly enjoy the experience (don't fake it -- build a mindset where you are interested. It's entirely a good thing.) The time for you to speak at any length is when you are asked a question. Which you answer carefully and in the most interesting way you can. Otherwise, short and sweet is the rule. This aids in making you intriguing and in projecting interest in her.
I speak from a lifetime of experience, and a great deal of success in courting the women I went after, ultimately, finding and keeping someone of such profound worth and compatibility that to this day, after decades, I am still deeply in love with her, and she with me. I'm almost 60, BTW. And yes, I am an engineer and a geek, and I am not a beautiful man. However I am confident and I am extroverted but can listen well without having to interrupt with my own take or story (one of the most obnoxious conversational failures ever, IMHO, is to interrupt, or answer, a story of someone else's with a recitation of something similar or related that happened to you. Instead, ask questions about the story and as it is told, respond to it within its own context. You can take that one right to the relationship bank. No matter how strong the urge, don't tell stories about yourself except when explicitly asked to do so. Mystery trumps bragging every time.)
When the day comes when you're trying to seriously figure out if a particular lady is "the one", watch out for serious areas of conflict that the rush of romance has (temporarily, I assure you) pushed aside: religion, politics, impingement of extended family fuckarosis, drinking or drugging habits and seriously divergent philosophical outloo
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
So. Er. Be pleasant, polite, engaged and confident? Perhaps that's what attracts a potential partner rather than pseudo-manipulative mind tricks?
I had a dream, bright and carefree, but now there's doubt and gravity
After you leave college, it's all downhill.
Because you will rarely enter a comparable environment again. What makes college special is that you live in a place where you spend a lot of time, are basically forced to meet new people regularily, in a shared environment with shared interests and a higher interest in cooperation than competition.
It's rare to find that after college. Work usually has more competition and less overal interaction, clubs and hobbies offer less time exposed and (after the initial phase where you are the new guy) a lower turnover. Other social settings (family meetings, neighbourhoods, etc.) often lack the shared interests.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org