FedEx Won't Ship DIY Gunsmithing Machine

An anonymous reader writes Last fall, Defense Distributed — the company created by Cody Wilson of 3D-printed gun fame — announced a DIY gunsmithing machine called the Ghost Gunner. Now, FedEx is refusing to ship the device, saying there are laws or regulations that would prohibit them from shipment. A FedEx spokesperson said, "This device is capable of manufacturing firearms, and potentially by private individuals. We are uncertain at this time whether this device is a regulated commodity by local, state or federal governments. As such, to ensure we comply with the applicable law and regulations, FedEx declined to ship this device until we know more about how it will be regulated." Wilson argues, "They’re acting like this is legal when in fact it’s the expression of a political preference. The artifact that they’re shipping is a CNC mill. There’s nothing about it that is specifically related to firearms except the hocus pocus of the marketing."

Comments

Oh bullshit!

[rfengr]

There are no regulations covering firearms manufacturing equipment; at least not YET. They are just covering their asses.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet Cody Wilson and his ilk, some of the world's biggest libertarians, are upset that a private company like FedEx refuses to carry their packages? Yawn. Come back to me when the USPS refuses (and then we'll talk about how they are semi-private as well thanks to previous tax-cutting and libertarian action).

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Obfuscant]

Wonder what the Justice Department has to hold over their heads.

The same thing they have to hold over everyone's heads: a large number of lawyers looking to right the wrongs their employer tells them to. Also the IRS. They don't need any actual wrongdoing, just the lawyers.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, so Cody Wilson wants to restrict companies' rights to free speech, including the right to make up whatever excuse they want when they don't choose to do something?

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's what the Justice Department MIGHT hold over their heads in the future or what regulations (for the good of the people, no doubt) will be issued that might damage their ability to operate.

Corporations don't operate without the consent of the government. If a corporation doesn't play ball with the government, the government will find a way to exert pressure.

This relationship also explains why the government tolerates a few, big corporations rather than many small corporations.

A few, big corporations are much more easily dealt with.

Want private data concerning a person's associates? Just call Facebook up. If they don't cooperate, threaten to charge them with an attempt to monopolize, or to block their next buyout, or to create regulations that make them less profitable.

If it seems like big corporations control everything, it's because the government likes it that way, because ultimately the government controls them.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[aaron4801]

UPS recently paid $40 million dollars because they shipped fake drugs. Like they were supposed to open all the packages and verify the contents? FedEx is currently facing fines for up to $1.6 Billion for the same. This may be totally unrelated, but at the very least, they are likely not in the mood to go poking the government in the eye over a niche product.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Jiro]

You don't seem to understand libertarianism. Libertarians believe that private actions should be legal. Libertarians do not believe that you should not complain about private actions.

Furthermore, in this case, if FedEx really is afraid of legal liability, or if the government is in other ways putting pressure on them, it's not a private action anyway. Government involvement is inherently not private.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[ShanghaiBill]

UPS recently paid $40 million dollars because they shipped fake drugs.

They didn't ship fake drugs. They shipped real drugs: prescription drugs from Canada.

Like they were supposed to open all the packages and verify the contents?

They didn't need to open the packages. They already knew what was in them.

If the government did not stop this activity, our health would have been at risk of deteriorating to Canadian levels.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Archangel Michael]

Change "guns" to flowers and Customer type from "gun loving" to Gay and see if you have a change it attitude.

FedEx refused to ship flowers to a gay man

You see, there is NOTHING "immoral" or "illegal" about either flowers, gunsmithing equipment, being a gun lover or lover of men. In fact, there is nothing different here except POPULAR OPINION.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[fightinfilipino]

Change "guns" to flowers and Customer type from "gun loving" to Gay and see if you have a change it attitude.

FedEx refused to ship flowers to a gay man

You see, there is NOTHING "immoral" or "illegal" about either flowers, gunsmithing equipment, being a gun lover or lover of men. In fact, there is nothing different here except POPULAR OPINION.

except you're adding unnecessarily to the hypothetical

"FedEx refuses to ship flowers." is DRASTICALLY different than "FedEx refuses to ship flowers to Alpha because of who Alpha is."

FedEx is refusing to ship a specific product, not refusing to deliver products to people because of their identity. The situations are entirely different.

Re: Oh bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody had enough of things getting regulated or hated on because of what people call them? Call something an attack tool and everybody goes bananas. Call it a "security auditing tool" and it's magically ok (especially if it costs way too much). This is the same thing.

Oh, yeah: unabashed liberal here and FedEx can go to hell over this one because trampling on ANY freedom is bad. This is exactly why we should never have a private-only delivery and mail system in the US as well.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[TechyImmigrant]

UPS recently paid $40 million dollars because they shipped fake drugs.

They didn't ship fake drugs. They shipped real drugs: prescription drugs from Canada.

Like they were supposed to open all the packages and verify the contents?

They didn't need to open the packages. They already knew what was in them.

If the government did not stop this activity, our health would have been at risk of deteriorating to Canadian levels.

No, our health costs were at risk of deteriorating to Canadian levels.

Re:Oh bullshit!

[Anonymous Coward]

Neo-Cons posing as Libertarians don't understand Libertarianism. The rest of us actually do.

As for the right to complain, yes, we embrace it, but in addition his points seem salient to me. If the actions of FedEx are truly motivated by fear of governmental retribution then we should fix the government. If instead, FedEx is simply stating that they are feeling anti-gun today, we can both complain about their private actions (e.g. boycott their service) and consider introducing laws to further protect our civil liberties.

The current (and I would argue just) rule is that if you offer a service like wedding cakes to a hetero couple, you must offer it to gay couples as well. If you offer to ship machinery that's useless for making guns, then you should offer it for machines useful for making guns.

political preference?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have worked for fedex for 15 years. I assure you this is not a hippie liberal company.

Corporations are naturally risk adverse. And it doesn't matter if it's a marketed mill... we can't ship a ball bearing certain places if you tell us it can be used on a tank. Regulations are what they are.

Re:political preference?

[Actually, I do RTFA]

If you say it is "X", FedEx has to treat it like "X". It you say it is not X, you (the liar) will bear the liability. So FedEx doesn't care. If you say it is "X" when it is "not X", why would FedEx risk it?

Re:political preference?

[Anonymous Coward]

Look, this guy isn't complaining because he can't ship what he wants, he's complaining because it's good business. More complains = more news coverage = more sales. Everyone here is making some good points, and the libertarian thing is kind of funny, but the more a story is made out of this, the more he wins. He's getting free advertising right here.

Re:political preference?

[HiThereImBob]

If you say it is "X", FedEx has to treat it like "X". It you say it is not X, you (the liar) will bear the liability. So FedEx doesn't care. If you say it is "X" when it is "not X", why would FedEx risk it?

It is "X". It is also "Y" and "Z" along with "L", "M", "N", "O", and "P". CNC Mills can be used to make damn near anything. I am officially notifying FEDEX that any CNC Mill can be used for gunsmithing. Also, Lab equipment / chemicals can be used for making drugs and bombs. Plane parts can be used to assemble planes a terrorist could use to crash into a building, and car parts can be used to facilitate both murder and drug smuggling. Camera and video equipment can be used by pedophiles, as can computers and networking gear (do I really need to keep going?). I expect them to step up and stop shipping these things at once.

FedEx is a private business, isn't it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't they refuse to ship anything on whatever grounds they want, or are they mandated to carry anything that they aren't banned from shipping?

Re:FedEx is a private business, isn't it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Cody Wilson, self-avowed libertarian and near anarchist, is upset that a private company refuses to do business with him. News at 11.

Re:FedEx is a private business, isn't it?

[Jiro]

You don't seem to understand libertarianism. Libertarians believe that private actions should be legal. Libertarians do not believe that you should not complain about private actions.

Furthermore, in this case, if FedEx really is afraid of legal liability, or if the government is in other ways putting pressure on them, it's not a private action anyway. Government involvement is inherently not private.

But then I already said this.

Re:UPS - No Problem.

[TWX]

There are parallels that can be drawn to how devices capable of home recording were viewed when they were new.

The manufacturer has chosen to market this device specifically for the production of firearms. They do not appear to have marketed this as a general-purpose device. It's reasonable to expect that purchased units will be used for the purposes of producing firearms. It doesn't really matter much that the device is capable of producing other goods, that's not how it's being sold.

Mills, lathes, and other metalworking equipment sold as general-purpose machine-shop equipment don't have this problem because they're not being marketeted for this specific purpose.

This contrasts well with the situation of home recording because devices capable of making recordings but intended to be general-purpose machines (ie, tuning for live watching, playback of commercial tapes, etc) were marketed differently than devices sold specifically for duplication or mass recording.

FedEx is free to choose with whom they'll conduct business. If they feel they are taking-on risk by shipping these machines then they're free to not ship them, like how cutomers and businesses are free to use anyone else that will take them to do such shipping.

RE: expression of a political preference

[DocSavage64109]

Lol. If he just told the FedEx rep that he was shipping 1'x1'x1' aluminum mills, there would be no problem. This is what he gets for over sharing. It's like telling police officers you smoke weed.

Irony

[tverbeek]

So here's a guy who calls himself a "libertarian", declaring that it's not legal for a private entity to refuse to do business with him based on their political views.

Re:Irony

[liquid_schwartz]

If only he was LBGT then he could join the bandwagon of being a victim of discrimination for someone refusing him some service. That's been all the rage the past few months.

Re:I don't get it.

[Lab Rat Jason]

sex toy industry... It's not hard.

I see what you did there....

Re: expression of a political preference

[zieroh]

It's almost like he was more interested in publicity than in actually shipping a product.