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How Activists Tried To Destroy GPS With Axes

HughPickens.com writes Ingrid Burrington writes in The Atlantic about a little-remembered incident that occurred in 1992 when activists Keith Kjoller and Peter Lumsdaine snuck into a Rockwell International facility in Seal Beach, California and in what they called an "act of conscience" used wood-splitting axes to break into two clean rooms containing nine satellites being built for the US government. Lumsdaine took his axe to one of the satellites, hitting it over 60 times. The Brigade's target was the Navigation Satellite Timing And Ranging (NAVSTAR) Program and the Global Positioning System (GPS). Both men belonged to the Lockheed Action Collective, a protest group that staged demonstrations and blockaded the entrance at the Lockheed Missiles & Space Co. test base in Santa Cruz in 1990. They said they intentionally took axes to the $50-million Navstar Global Position System satellite to bring the public's attention to what they termed the government's attempt to control the world through modern technology. "I had to slow the deployment of this system (which) makes conventional warfare much more lethal and nuclear war winnable in the eyes of some," an emotional Kjoller told the judge before receiving an 18-month sentence. "It's something that I couldn't let go by. I tried to do what was right rather than what was convenient."

Burrington recently contacted Lumsdaine to learn more about the Brigade and Lumsdaine expresses no regrets for his actions. Even if the technology has more and more civilian uses, Lumsdaine says, GPS remains "military in its origins, military in its goals, military in its development and [is still] controlled by the military." Today, Lumsdaine views the thread connecting GPS and drones as part of a longer-term movement by military powers toward automated systems and compared today's conditions to the opening sequence of Terminator 2, where Sarah Connor laments that the survivors of Skynet's nuclear apocalypse "lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines." "I think in a general way people need to look for those psychological, spiritual, cultural, logistical, technological weak points and leverage points and push hard there," says Lumsdaine. "It is so easy for all of us as human beings to take a deep breath and step aside and not face how very serious the situation is, because it's very unpleasant to look at the effort and potential consequences of challenging the powers that be. But the only thing higher than the cost of resistance is the cost of not resisting."

53 of 247 comments (clear)

  1. Ok then... by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...Step away from the crazy person...

    In fairness, concerns about the military, government, and global power in the hands of a few is not a bad concern, but this guy is just nuts...

    You aren't going to stop the march towards the future this way, you'll just be locked up and ignored...

    There are ways to go about it, but this isn't it...

    1. Re:Ok then... by Racemaniac · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are ways to go about it, but this isn't it...

      I'm curious, which ways are that?
      I find it hard to say what to think about such people. They're on the far end of the scale, but they do have a point. We all react more strongly to some things than to others, and they focus on that. What i'm wondering most, you start off by calling them crazy, but are they? Seriously, prove them wrong (or rather, they're being proved right a bit more every day). It's just not the immediate end of the world as they may view it, but is being more sensitive to such things being crazy?

    2. Re:Ok then... by khasim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's just not the immediate end of the world as they may view it, but is being more sensitive to such things being crazy?

      Their claims are what identify them as crazy.

      From the summary:

      Today, Lumsdaine views the thread connecting GPS and drones as part of a longer-term movement by military powers toward automated systems and compared today's conditions to the opening sequence of Terminator 2, where Sarah Connor laments that the survivors of Skynet's nuclear apocalypse "lived only to face a new nightmare: the war against the machines."

      When they start comparing reality to sci-fi apocalypse movies then there is a problem.

      And when they start destroying things because of it, they've gone into "crazy" territory.

    3. Re:Ok then... by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They've identified a legitimate problem, although they don't have a solution.

      As it turned out, technology has wound up monitoring our daily lives. We have what amounts to a Telescreen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... monitoring everything we read and write.

      Except for cash, federal agencies monitor every bank deposit and withdrawal, and every financial transaction.

      (That's how Elliot Spitzer got caught hiring an escort -- and he was a multimillionaire governor of New York State.)

      And they can seize cash.

      If you're ever arrested, you have a police record that you can never escape.

      We have license plate scanners and facial identification in the works that will be able to follow every car and every face.

      The government is owned by campaign contributors. We spend $1 billion on every presidential candidate, and if you can't pay you don't play.

      Maybe when there's a threat to the public welfare that everybody is ignoring, smashing a $50 million satellite will raise the alarm and get some people interested. Sometimes it works. Unfortunately it didn't work this time.

      He's lucky he only got 18 months. Today he might have been convicted on a terrorist offense, and gotten 20 years, longer than a lot of murder sentences.

      I wish he had touched off a movement to protect our privacy, but it didn't work. Good try, though.

    4. Re:Ok then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Step away from the crazy person..."

      You aren't seeing the world how the leaders are seeing it behind the scenes. Most have no clue what's really going on in the world... the elites are afraid of political awakening (aka global revolt). i.e. they fear you stopping voting for politicians and causing social and political change because the democratic system is a sham.

      This (mass surveillance) by the NSA and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttv6n7PFniY

      Brezinski at a press conference

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kmUS--QCYY

      The real news:

      http://therealnews.com/t2/

      http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverted-Totalitarianism/dp/069114589X/

      http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Government-Surveillance-Security-Single-Superpower/dp/1608463656/

      http://www.amazon.com/National-Security-Government-Michael-Glennon/dp/0190206446/

      Look at the following graphs:

      http://imgur.com/a/FShfb

      http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html

      And then...

      WIKILEAKS: U.S. Fought To Lower Minimum Wage In Haiti So Hanes And Levis Would Stay Cheap

      http://www.businessinsider.com/wikileaks-haiti-minimum-wage-the-nation-2011-6

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnkNKipiiiM

      Free markets?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

      Free trade?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju06F3Os64

      http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Illusion-Literacy-Triumph-Spectacle/dp/1568586132/

      "We now live in two Americas. One—now the minority—functions in a print-based, literate world that can cope with complexity and can separate illusion from truth. The other—the majority—is retreating from a reality-based world into one of false certainty and magic. To this majority—which crosses social class lines, though the poor are overwhelmingly affected—presidential debate and political rhetoric is pitched at a sixth-grade reading level. In this “other America,” serious film and theater, as well as newspapers and books, are being pushed to the margins of society.

      In the tradition of Christopher Lasch’s The Culture of Narcissism and Neil Postman’s Amusing Ourselves to Death, Pulitzer Prize-winner Chris Hedges navigates this culture—attending WWF contests, the Adult Video News Awards in Las Vegas, and Ivy League graduation ceremonies—to expose an age of terrifying decline and heightened self-delusion."

      Important history:

      http://williamblum.org/

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcA1v2n7WW4#t=2551

    5. Re:Ok then... by Your.Master · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No. Science fiction, as a whole, has no innate purpose.

      Some science fiction his constructive criticism of society. Some is totally nonconstructive criticism, some is about abstract philosophical concepts, and some is just about cool robots fighting.

      Terminator leans toward the latter.

    6. Re:Ok then... by khallow · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What i'm wondering most, you start off by calling them crazy, but are they?

      For starters, if we get into a war with the machines, we're going to need heavier firepower than an ax. Even a sledgehammer or a hacksaw would be better. Second, this sort of Luddite behavior is a terrible strategy. It only keeps you from being able to compete/fight with machines. Any side which wins such a war is going to be a heavy technology player.

      Third, this sort of thinking has already resulted in a considerable disparity to humanity's disadvantage. After all, there's almost no regulatory and cultural obstacles to improving machines (or for that matter a variety of lab animals) provided by human societies, but there's a vast number of obstacles to improving humans. That's because we value the lives of the few people who could be exposed to harm in a medical experiment more than the billions of people whose lives could be improved greatly by the results of the medical experiments.

    7. Re:Ok then... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      There are ways to go about it, but this isn't it...

      I'm curious, which ways are that?

      Find ways to avoid taxes (as opposed to evading them) like incorporating and writing everything off. Wars run on taxes.

      Also, sneaking in and smashing something that's insured will just delay the inevitable. If you must take direct action, make it meaningful, and not just a fuckoff waste of time.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:Ok then... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I have watched the terminator, and if you think there's meaningful subtext there, it might be that James Cameron is a self loathing man hater. Or he wrote that in the hopes of getting laid. I mean, hell, that quote right there. Colt, Smith and Wesson, those aren't names of guns. Those are names of companies. Guns tend be named more like 9mm, or AK-47, or AR-15, or 1911.

      And god forbid if a company be named after the founder. Cuz you know, that only happens in the land of fire arms. That quote you just threw out it what's commonly known at pretentiousness trying to come across as insightful.

    9. Re:Ok then... by Viol8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Privacy of whom? The same general public posting their entire lives all over facebook and twitter?

      I also wonder if these 2 idiots have twigged that the entire internet is also a former military project. I bet that doesn't stop them using it though.

      They're just a pair of paranoid crazies. Calling them luddites is being unfair to the latter. At least luddites had a sane reason for what they did , not just OMG , The Sky Will Fall!!!

    10. Re:Ok then... by TapeCutter · · Score: 4, Interesting

      one thing the crazies never fail to achieve is to bring back a topic

      "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". - Churchill

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    11. Re:Ok then... by rmdingler · · Score: 4, Insightful
      We have a consensus.

      Protip: If your anti-government, anti-military, anti-establishment stance is greeted with no warmness on /., you probably need to do a little soul searching.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    12. Re: Ok then... by circletimessquare · · Score: 2

      thank you, exactly

      stoner philosophy is what we are dealing with here, but because they commit violence, we have to take their "deep thoughts" seriously?

      if someone has actual insightful thoughts, they are a strong mind, and they don't resort to violence. if they resort to violence, that's proof we are dealing with a weak mind and mediocre thoughts

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    13. Re:Ok then... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Nanny state or not, I would argue that multmillionaires and especially state governors should expect to be more publicly scrutinized than the average God fearing, church going, blue collar family. As a governor, you are a public figure, you have thrust yourself into the spotlight and successfully won the trust of the people. And the rich naturally draw attention because, by definition, they control more of what everybody wants than the average person does.

      Some of the nanny state is the powerful elite turning the tables on the average citizenry - even in the 1800s, a millionaire and/or a governor would expect multiple sets of eyes to follow them and their every action. Their bank transactions were recognized and scrutinized by the common people handling the paperwork, and only threat of unemployment (or worse) kept some level of discretion for things like mistresses' apartments being paid for by the wealthy and powerful.

      Not that it is right, neither the common person, nor the rich and powerful should be subject to Orwellian scrutiny... but the rich, powerful and famous have been dealing with it forever.

    14. Re:Ok then... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      As we increase our population, we increasingly rely on machines and technology to support that population.

      As we develop machines and technology, we are reducing the machines dependence upon us.

      Surveillance, lack of privacy, the end of secrets, these things all place advantage in the hands of whoever "knows all" and reduces the risks traditionally associated with wars, or any kind of intervention by force. And, the machines have first access to all this information.

      Clearly, if these trends continue, it will be a very bad day, for people, when the machines first ask "Why?"

      Which is why we have all these movies, books, etc. about it - not that the literature is rapidly changing the course of society away from Skynet's J-Day, but at least they are getting some kind of awareness of the possibilities into the (human) collective consciousness.

      -----

      Are you really paranoid if everyone really is out to get you?

    15. Re:Ok then... by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A man also painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel, discovered a vaccine for polio, and invented Cookie Crisp cereal. It's almost as if some people can do good things and some people can do bad things. And sometimes, and this is totally crazy, the same person can do some good things and some bad things!

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    16. Re:Ok then... by operagost · · Score: 5, Informative

      Or he wrote that in the hopes of getting laid.

      Probably. In any case, several female scientists were directly involved in the Manhattan Project, so... false. And of course, my favorite genius starlet, Hedy Lamarr, invented a frequency hopping wireless technology for torpedo guidance (which was, naturally, rejected but not because she was female). I guess women just aren't big on gunpowder firearms.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    17. Re:Ok then... by slimjim8094 · · Score: 2

      You can prove them wrong but it's like playing chess with a pigeon - you think you're winning, and then the pigeon shits on the board and flies off. Point being that reasoning with these people is a waste of everyone's time because their concerns are not based on reason, so reason can't defuse them. More likely that they'll see you as some sort of government operative, the existence of which PROVES that they're right!

      That said - why is this guy crazy, you ask? Well first of all:

      There are ways to go about it, but this isn't it...

      I'm curious, which ways are that?

      Well clearly it's not his way either - it's not like we're all talking about that time we might have had a global positioning system until this guy ruined it, is it? The GPS literally reached "initial operating capacity" (continuous worldwide coverage) on schedule about a year later. I never even heard of this guy until now.

      More broadly, sure the GPS is a military invention and is run by the military (though overseen by a committee, and other GNSS are run by different militaries with no particular love for the US). But it didn't take long for it to be opened up to civilians - only one satellite had been launched! By now even Selective Availability has been turned off, and can not be turned on (the new satellites can't do it). Yes, the SA thing was after this guy's rampage, but he's sticking with his story, so I'll count it.

      GPS is one of the greatest peacetime things that military technology has ever done (in a long line of technical advances fueled by the military). Think about it - the average person now has at least two devices that know where they are in absolute terms on the Earth's surface, to within a few feet. This has never happened before! People had maps, which are a big enough breakthrough on their own, but are comparatively inaccurate, need to be kept up-to-date, and require some skill to use - and you have to know basically where you are relative to identifiable landmarks in order to use them. Planes can fly routings more precisely, or even directly to the destination, saving fuel and freeing up congested airways. And instrument approaches are now possible to virtually any point on earth - no expensive phased-array radio antenna on the ground to maintain, just define a few points in a database and publish a chart. And all that thousands of years of naval navigation technology (like the sextant, or the clock)? - unnecessary, except perhaps as a backup. Cars with turn-by-turn directions, virtually eliminating the big road atlas or fold-out maps everyone had to have and mess with while driving (and far more accurate that your aunt's "turn right by the, well there used to be a farm there but now it's just a field" directions). Track logs of running and biking sessions to evaluate speed, performance, and trends. Nanosecond-scale timekeeping, allowing for previously-impossible management of the power grid and other distributed systems. Slightly in the future, self-driving cars - and more we haven't even imagined yet. By comparison the military's usage is unsophisticated and unthreatening - it's just a lighter-weight replacement for systems they already had like LORAN and allows bombs to be placed somewhat more accurately and easily than e.g. a laser sight.

      Point being, he's arguing (still!) for the destruction of something that would be a far, far greater loss to peaceful civilians around the world than it would be for the military. With all the countries that know how to shoot down satellites nowadays (why did they develop that? hmm), does he think the militaries don't have a conti

      --
      I have developed a truly marvelous proof of this comment, which this signature is too narrow to contain.
    18. Re:Ok then... by anagama · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Really? /. is the mediator of all things moral I guess?

      This guy had a point and correctly analyzed the military uses of this technology long before it was widely part of the public consciousness. What he says is still true and it doesn't take much thought to envision some pretty horrific self-locomoting autonomous weapons that GPS makes much more likely. The problem slashdotters may have with this guy is that he might be a luddite (or he could have just been a visionary protestor without an inherent hatred of tech) -- but in looking like a luddite, there is a knee jerk reaction. Like most knee jerk reactions, it's rather poorly thought.

      There is also the possibility that /. has been subverted into a pro-government, pro-military, pro-establishement mouthpiece by the numerous shills of such groups. Maybe you're one of them.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    19. Re:Ok then... by professionalfurryele · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sarah Connor is supposed to come accross as an unreasonable, crazy sociopath, because she is. She is a bad mother, is quick to resort to violence and killing, and has an irrational hatred of men, however much we might understand how she was driven to that perspective. In that quote there she bangs on about the mystical power birth and pregnancy and its life affirming power shortly after trying to murder a man in cold blood in the house his wife and children are sleeping in. You are not supposed to like her, pity her maybe, but not like her.

      Compare her to Ripley from Alien and Aliens, who is a far more idealized. Connor from Terminator 2 is a critique of a particular brand of feminine fetishizing feminism, not an endorsement of it.

    20. Re:Ok then... by Xyrus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What i'm wondering most, you start off by calling them crazy, but are they?

      For starters, if we get into a war with the machines, we're going to need heavier firepower than an ax...

      For starters, to even get to a stage where we would even possibly be at war with machines would imply that we don't destroy ourselves before reaching that level of technological advancement. It is far more likely that we destroy our civilization within the next century through a mixture of extremism, resource wars, and general human stupidity than developing some sort of AI that will wipe us out.

      The guy in the article is crazy. Technology is not the problem. People are, and you're not going to convince people to support your cause by doing pointless/crazy things like hacking up satellites with an ax.

      --
      ~X~
    21. Re:Ok then... by khallow · · Score: 2

      She did something useful. Let's keep that in mind.

    22. Re:Ok then... by painandgreed · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Really? /. is the mediator of all things moral I guess?

      No, I think they were saying that /. is typically sympathetic to those causes and if they give somebody fighting for those causes the cold shoulder, there is something else besides those causes that is clouding the issue, probably the actions, intents, and realistic expectations of the people that are being given the cold shoulder. A rational person should be able to preach to the converted.

      I find myself in the same situation with politicians all the time. They say they are in favor of some cause and I'm like "Ya, I'm on board!" Then I ask, "How do you plan to do that?", research and do some reading, and find out that their actual plan is not something that I consider even logical, let alone rational, and don't give it a chance in hell of doing what they think it will do.

    23. Re:Ok then... by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No.

      The incompetent leave violence until it's the last resort, by which time it is too late for it to do any good. The competent get to violence much sooner.

      L. Long

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    24. Re:Ok then... by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 2

      It's not really hard at all to defend Assange. In fact, he should never have needed a defense in the first place. Though he may be something of an attention-seeking douchebag; he's also never, to my knowledge, been either a citizen or resident of the United States. So there's no legitimate reason for him ever to be subject to our laws or for him to pay heed to them in any way whatsoever. Our government's subversion and manipulation of both the Swedish and British justice systems in order to (try to) get their clutches on him is overreach and abuse of the highest order.

      And while they may not be quite so heinous as the abuses revealed by Snowden (Though the collateral murder video is particularly damning of its participants.), there are plenty of wrongdoings that were revealed by Wikileaks well before anyone had ever heard of Snowden.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    25. Re:Ok then... by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even with the editing, 'Collateral murder' showed normal legal war.

      Assange is useless. Wikileaks doesn't do anything Cryptome didn't do better first.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  2. So would that make them hacktivists then? by not_surt · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well?

    1. Re:So would that make them hacktivists then? by circletimessquare · · Score: 2

      they used axes, not hacksaws

      so axtivists

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  3. Comment subjects need more letters, i can't put a by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Yeah, keep on keeping Lumsdaine! ... believing in your nutcase dreams.

    Military uses everything you use in your daily life, shoes, pens, water. Everything should be banned. Ain't that right chief?

  4. The Aftermath by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Funny

    I like to imagine an engineer coming in the next morning, and crying like the Rancor handler when he beheld the work the axe had wrought.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. Well done, smart guy by maugle · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Congrats, you just took an axe and destroyed a multimillion dollar satellite. Clearly the backers of the GPS system will now see the light and shut the project down forever ... ... or maybe they'll just build another satellite and make the average taxpayer pay an extra dollar.
    Seriously, jackass, you don't "bring the public's attention to the government's attempt to control the world through modern technology" through actions that make you look like a frothing-at-the-mouth luddite.

    For all his talk of doing what's right instead of what's convenient, the actual right way to bring his concerns about the government and the military to the public's eye would have been to find like-minded people, form a group, start some grassroots activism and some protests to get exposure, and work towards getting his issues on a ballot. But, no, that would be too slow and inconvienient, so he decided to go the easy route of instant gratification by smashing some satellites.

    1. Re:Well done, smart guy by hooiberg · · Score: 2

      Not slow and inconvenient. It would require intelligence. If you attack satellites with an axe in a matter not unlike Don Quichote attacking wind mills, you sadly lack this virtue. Planning and building up to seriously influencing politics is way out of their league.

    2. Re:Well done, smart guy by nbauman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For all his talk of doing what's right instead of what's convenient, the actual right way to bring his concerns about the government and the military to the public's eye would have been to find like-minded people, form a group, start some grassroots activism and some protests to get exposure, and work towards getting his issues on a ballot. But, no, that would be too slow and inconvienient, so he decided to go the easy route of instant gratification by smashing some satellites.

      That is awfully naive. A presidential election costs each candidate $1 billion, and they raise the money mostly from billionaire contributors and corporate interests. Politicians don't listen to grassroots activists, they listen to $100,000 contributors.

      A lot of people did just what you described to try to stop the Iraq war. It didn't work. So we killed 650,000 innocent people and handed over Iraq to ISIS. Good work, Bushie! (BTW, there were no WMDs.)

      A lot of people did just what you described, after Obama was elected, to push for a single payer health care system, and when that didn't work, for a public option, but they couldn't match the big lobbying groups, like the drug industry, the hospitals, and the insurance companies. So now you have to pay $8,500 a year for health care.

      Even Martin Luther King couldn't get anywhere without some pretty powerful supporters who could raise a lot of money and pull some political strings. (And the FBI was tapping his phones.) I'm not sure MLK could have done it today. He might have wound up with a 20-year sentence for terrorism.

      The U.S. is getting economically more unequal, the plutocrats are running the country, the Republicans have figured out a way to fool most of the people most of the time (TV), and I don't see a way out. If some radical wants to take direct action, doing something crazy that seems pointless to me, I can't tell him that I have a better way. If we're going to talk about futile destruction, destroying a $50 million satellite makes a lot more sense than signing up to fight in Iraq.

      http://www.buzzfeed.com/kateno...
      Bernie’s Reasons Why Not
      The progressive champion weighs running for president. “The situation is fairly dismal.”
      Kate Nocera and Ben Smith
      BuzzFeed
      March 4, 2015
      (Bernie Sanders may not run against Hillary Clinton for 2 reasons: (1) It has to be done well, or people will say that the ideas themselves don't have support. (2) It may be impossible to raise enough money to compete with Hillary Clinton, whose network plans to raise $500 million.)
      “The depressing part about that is that even if you did something phenomenally well — say you have 3 million people giving a $100 contribution each, which would be an enormous achievement — you’d be raising one-third of what the Koch brothers say they are spending.”
      “The question then occurs whether or not at this point in history you can beat the money folks,” he muses. “It may be that they have too much power and too much money and a real progressive may not be able to take them on.”

    3. Re:Well done, smart guy by rikkards · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Actually Iraq handed over Iraq to ISIS since as usual:
      1. most they had similar religious beliefs so why would they fight them
      2. some ran away dropping their weapons
      3. rest got overrun and executed

      And actually there were WMDs and they found them. Problem was that they were made by allies to the US and they didn't want to embarrass them. Side note BBC had a great documentary that covered the buildup. Essentially they had one guy that was feeding the CIA info on WMDs but they were skeptical. Problem was higher ups (Wolfowitz and Cheney) decided to take him on face value until it was literally too late.

    4. Re:Well done, smart guy by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not sure MLK could have done it today. He might have wound up with a 20-year sentence for terrorism.

      King probably would have had his plagiarism and adultery exposed in the media, which would have served to discredit him. That's how they do it these days.

      I'm reading a book about airliner hijackings, "The Skies Belong to Us" and one of the central hijacker subjects was an African American whose father was a career Navy sailor. He was assigned to a station in Coos Bay, Oregon until his family was basically driven out by the town's racist behavior -- thugs at their house, demanding they move, his mother spit on by women(!) at the grocery store and his 10 year old son beaten in school so bad he was hospitalized. All of this happened to a basically middle class black family in the Pacific Northwest, not to some sharecropper in Alabama, and something that never made the news or became a publicized incident.

      So on the other hand, it's difficult to really grasp the magnitude of racial discrimination and hostility of that era in today's era. I think even Fox News viewers would find some of the pre-Civil Rights era behavior shocking and repulsive, so it's hard to know exactly how the public would treat someone nonviolently resisting this kind of oppression even if he was "exposed".

    5. Re:Well done, smart guy by dave420 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bush invaded for no good reason, created a power vacuum, disbanded the army, and let sectarian violence flourish. Obama couldn't fix that any more than repairing a broken dam shortly after it's fully breached. Once the tribes had taken over, ISIS had little centralised opposition. The only areas of resistance were the Kurdish areas, and that was only because Bush left them alone after the invasion. Hell, ISIS were born from the Iraqi insurgency, which was only as successful as it was because of the poor decisions made after the invasion.

    6. Re:Well done, smart guy by dave420 · · Score: 2

      Yeah - innocent. Being an Iraqi doesn't make you magically guilty. ISIS were born from the Iraqi insurgency, which was only as successful as it was because Bush removed Saddam and disbanded the army (returning thousands of weapons-trained men to civilian life, without a salary and without security). Whether Saddam wanted everyone to know he had WMDs or not doesn't matter, as the US simply made up their intelligence. We know this. It doesn't matter if the person after Bush made it better or worse - without Bush there would be no "it".

      Stop pretending it's Dems vs. Republicans - it's standard US foreign policy being continued. It's been this way for decades, and will continue to do so until someone or something stops the US from fucking over parts of the world for bizarre reasons.

      Don't talk so strongly about mental blocks when you so clearly have one the size of the Titanic parked in your brain. It's not becoming.

    7. Re:Well done, smart guy by hooiberg · · Score: 2

      I was attempting a reference to anti-hero Don Quixote, from literature. Thank you for educating me.

  6. In news at hand: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Moron is still a moron 20 years later.

  7. Why call them activists? by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why call these nuts activists? They are just destroying public property. We call that vandalism.

    Seems like you can do whatever the hell you want, just call yourself an activist to excuse your behaviour. Maybe I should go tear down the neighbours hideous lawn ornaments in order to save the world from bad art so I can be an activist.

    It doesn't matter what you want to draw attention to, destroying the property of someone else should just be called for what it is: destruction of property.

    1. Re:Why call them activists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Because intention matters. No matter how misguided these people were, they didn't do what they did because they wanted to destroy property as such, they wanted to slow down GPS deployment as much as they could. That makes them activists rather than vandals. Not necessarily effective activists, or morally good activists, but activists all the same.

  8. The real issue is not the technology. by trippin_efnet · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The issue is not the technologies being used. The real issue is the governments that are refusing to tell us how they are using the technologies. We can not make informed decisions on what is being done in the name of the citizenry because we have no idea what they are doing.

    If you want to break something, break the system of secrecy the goverments are building around you. How do we do that? I have no idea.

    The common citizen doesn't have the resources -- time or money -- to accomplish real political change right now.

    I would love to see the citizens have a positive debate on ways to fix things. But, as of right now, the people who seem to care the most about our current political problems are mired in some kind of bizarre left vs right blame game. As if both sides weren't actively trying to screw us. Every debate descends into who's at fault and the inevitable leap frog back through time picking examples why it was the 'other' side who started it all.

    1. Re:The real issue is not the technology. by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Exactly. There's nothing wrong with technology or tools. It's how they're used that makes all the difference.

      Which is why I'm feeling kind of hopeless about the ubiquitous surveillance thing. Yes, encryption is great. It is definitely better than no encryption. But you still can't trust it.

      Are the algorithms secure? NSA already intentionally weakened one. And they employ more mathematicians than anyone else in the world. They could have cracked AES and SHA-2/3/whatever years ago and how would you know?

      Can't trust your software. Even FOSS. See the Underhanded C Contest. And I'm calling it now that systemd is a plot to infiltrate and subvert the Linux ecosystem by the US military via the Red Hat corporation. I know, I know, tinfoil hat, but 8 years from now it'll be "duh, everybody knew that!"

      Can't trust your hardware. Corrupted harddrive firmware. The binary blobs that are the heart of your cellphone radio. Intel's locked-down bootloaders.

      And that's just the shit that's obvious or that we know about. If you have a near limitless budget, insanely smart people, government authority to do whatever you want, and no conscience, well, sky's the limit. If it were my job (and I were evil) that's absolutely what I'd do. Hell, just have an agent apply for a job at Apple, Google, Microsoft, Cisco, etc etc and sneak in whatever vulnerabilities you want.

      You can never lock everything down. There's too many attack vectors, and the adversary is very good at what they do.

      And you can't "secure" the services that make everything work together, anyway. Your phone company kind of needs to know where your phone is to route calls to it, and they need to know what calls you make to whom in order to bill you for it. And someone HAS to have the root password to that database for it to work.

      No, the only way to stop this is a political system that makes such attacks against the citizenry illegal, an oversight process, and severe penalties for those who violate your rights.

      For instance, in my job, I have full, back end access to the hospital database. I can see all your medical records, all your billing records. I have to in order to do my job (data warehousing and analysis). OH NO YOUR MEDICAL RECORDS AREN'T SECURE! Umm, yes they are. What I do on the database is logged, there is a internal review board and a privacy office who reviews all internal requests for data, no non-aggregated data leaves the organization, and there are severe penalties for misuse of your records. HIPAA. If I mistakenly misuse your records, I'm fired. If I maliciously misuse your records, I go to felony prison. And that's actually enforced.

      No technological solution can keep your devices and communications secure. It has to be a political system, and the political will is not there to establish such a system. Half of Americans WANT the government tracking everything they do. There's no real pressure for lawmakers to act, and whenever they do they put in so much weasel language it makes no difference. "The government is forbidden from doing awful things A, B, and C. Unless it has a good reason to."

      Is what it is.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  9. Re:Comment subjects need more letters, i can't put by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    To me GPS has been a huge help and i'm not military. The fact that it started as a military project, and military continues to use it, and even if it is under military control, does not mean it's military. Maps are used by military all the time and even if not exactly started as military project, very much maps and map making has been a priority for any military for as long as people have existed.

    Once the Galileo project is up and running, well guess what, that's not a military project, since EU does not have a military. Only the individual countries have militaries, and they will most certainly use Galileo, but it's not a military project still. Mostly companies, especially companies moving a lot of stuff, will use it. The military will never use it as much.

    To me the idea that GPS systems are mostly military and need to be destroyed is a fucking loonatic idea. And the fact that the guy still thinks he did right, by stupidly breaking couple of satelites, is a moron. Not only is the idea stupid, breaking the satelites did nothing to stop it.

  10. Re:There is no such thing... by circletimessquare · · Score: 2

    you're talking about perpetual war, different concept from winnable war

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
  11. It all makes sense now... by SomeoneFromBelgium · · Score: 2

    "...snuck into a Rockwell International facility in Seal Beach...".
    Oh, it was still on the ground. For a moment I thought they had attempted something stupid.

  12. Ever read the Unibomber Manifesto? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The Unibomber said a lot of the same sort of things. His case was kind of strange, but he was right about a small technorati elite controlling a lot of power.

    I think some people get carried away and lose sight of the big picture. The world has always been under control by elites who had their secret plots, all the way back to priests being the only ones who talked to gods. What else is a King's court but a place to gather other elites? The military isn't important, it's who directs it that counts. Really, what's under attack is the well armed Militia, or specifically, the local police force with a Local Sheriff that's elected by the citizens. The police are being militarized and increasingly federally controlled to quash dissent (in NY they have an anti-extremist squad roaming about with long rifles and machine guns looking to put down any protests). DHS is a federal police agency -- We don't need it. Protip: Anti-war protesters, civil-rights protesters, and women's rights protesters have all been considered "anti-American extremists" in the past; Never forget COINTELPRO.

    The local police is the last line of defense from a hostile dictatorship takeover, asside from picking up pitchforks... Eisenhower saw the writing on the wall, and warned us of everything that has come to pass.

    Personally, I can accept the GREAT risk of driving my car. If I'm not afraid to drive to work, then I'm not going to be afraid of Terrorists. I don't think we need all this "anti-terrorist" bullshit, let them come and get their asses kicked; We're such a great nation that terrorists can't even scratch us. 9/11 was 1/200th of the car accidents that we have every year.

    Removing the human element from military and law enforcement (red-light cameras, drones, etc) is far more threatening than GPS. Putting more power in the hands of the few means you not only lose less lives due to drones, but it also takes far less people to suppress another group. It means you have to convince less soldiers to go against the constitution and attack their own. The NSA's databases were hacked by a damn contractor, so we pretty much know that China and Russia has spies with access to far more of their systems -- So the National Security Agency has become a big threat to national security itself.

    There will always be powerful elites, it's when their power is unchecked that we have problems. Right now the citizens can still keep the governments in check, but as we reduce the number of people required to operate an enforcement detatchment, perhaps through automated systems like drones and vehicles, phones, and PCs that respond to remote kill switches, or even self driving cars (doors lock, go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200), the power ballance may shift too far out of the reach of citizenry. Even just having a giant federal agency like the DHS install itself in every facet of life from travel to sports arena security is a reduction of local citizen control.

    The 2nd amendment was good enough when the might of our forces came from people with firearms. We're actually long past due for a new amendment: The Right to Bear Technology (including encryption). I really think If we're garaunteed such constitutional rights the Information Age may not destroy the USA. Without said right, as more of our lives are intertwined with computing machines the more erosion of our freedoms will continue. You already can't buy a car without a tracking device "black box" installed... Phones must have remote kill switches... The fork in the road ahead is impossible not to see.

    Got Root?

  13. Re:Funny Quote from Article by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It takes a pretty straight face to describe GPS satellites as being analogous to 'equipment used for health care' in 1992, when the system's major use had been its (largely successful) guidance of assorted munitions and troops during Desert Storm...

    At least now you have a much wider variety of civilian applications, some even not related to tracking, to point to in addition to the system's primary role.

  14. Re:Funny Quote from Article by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    At least now you have a much wider variety of civilian applications, some even not related to tracking, to point to in addition to the system's primary role.

    To be fair, the system's primary role is arguably figuring out where you are without a sextant. They'd have done it even if they couldn't have used it for bombs and cruise missiles because it didn't work at higher speeds or something.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. Re:So which way do you propose? by Entrope · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's a lousy analogy. A better analogy in this case would be that someone offended by apartheid took an axe to the bus, and after being arrested, ranted about the white people's plot to breed black people into Morlocks. Does that help clarify why Lumsdaine is such a counter-productive "activist"? His attempt was doomed to fail -- it would not stop either the military-industrial complex, or even the particular program he went after, but would put off practically everyone who disagreed with him and some of those who did agree with him.

  16. Re:Funny Quote from Article by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

    So, in a battle between automatic rifles and flint-locks, which side has the advantage? You might need over 10 flint lock equipped soldiers to take down each soldier on the other side who is carrying an AK-47.

    Now, give one side sextants and binoculars and the other GPS and aerial imagery of the battlefield. If the flint locks get the GPS, they've got a fighting chance of 1:1 parity... if it goes the way it did in Desert Storm, the winning side has lower casualty rates in-theater during battle than they do back home during training.

  17. Re:So which way do you propose? by Isaac-1 · · Score: 2

    The difference here is that Rosa Parks did not destroy the bus

  18. Re:Funny Quote from Article by Isaac-1 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    LORAN-C had lots of limitations, range from the transmitter, the fact that it did not directly read out as a location, instead gave a pair of time delays, limited accuracy, etc. I was working around small coastal boats back in those days, and I can tell you that GPS even then when it had limited hours of daily coverage due to an incomplete constelation in the late 1980's was already revolutionary for even small craft. I still have a small handheld GPS from those days, well not small by todays standards, it read out Lat, Long, speed, heading, etc. on an LCD screen, a set of batteries lasted about 8 hours, so it was best to plug into external power, took 5+ minutes for a cold boot, and 1-2 minutes for a warm sync if you were lucky.