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CIA Tried To Crack Security of Apple Devices

According to a story at The Guardian passed on by an anonymous reader, The CIA led sophisticated intelligence agency efforts to undermine the encryption used in Apple phones, as well as insert secret surveillance back doors into apps, top-secret documents published by the Intercept online news site have revealed. he newly disclosed documents from the National Security Agency's internal systems show surveillance methods were presented at its secret annual conference, known as the "jamboree."

29 of 119 comments (clear)

  1. Required Reading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://cm.bell-labs.com/who/ken/trust.html

    1. Re:Required Reading by steak · · Score: 2

      The act of breaking into a computer system has to have the same social stigma as breaking into a neighbor's house. It should not matter that the neighbor's door is unlocked.

      Even 1984 that was a pipe dream.

  2. Jailbreak developers are the real patriots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Through their hard work, numerous exploits have been discovered, which has led to Apple patching them, which in the end keeps us all more secure.

  3. Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by Viol8 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I mean honestly , hands up who DIDN'T think this had happened?

    Ok , you and you over there - hand in your geek badges at the door on the way out.

    1. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The sad part is that you can take whatever atrocity you would have attributed to the Commies in the 1980 and transplant it to today's "world of the free" without losing any credibility. Take whatever story from back then, replace "Russia" with "USA" and "KGB" with "NSA" and you're good for another headline.

      Ok, you could have done that any time. But now it doesn't take a conspiracy nut to consider it credible.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by poetmatt · · Score: 2

      You're misunderstanding. If you create a form of encryption to which you do not hold the keys, all of the compelling in the world isn't going to do anything. Which is what most modern OS's including ios do.

    3. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by Kobun · · Score: 2

      Or they can and these sorts of stories are designed and released to falsely imply otherwise.

    4. Re: Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by geekmux · · Score: 2

      The more the masses are aware the more they will not only respect but use secure communications. You may now go back to shitting outside just watch out for the trail cams.

      Bullshit. The masses could care less.

      How many of your friends stopped carrying cell phones, or stopping using free webmail and file storage services, after NSA revelations came out?

      The only way the masses are going to give a shit is if giving a shit is the default option. Every other configuration requires actual effort and thus is ignored.

    5. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by dlt074 · · Score: 2

      wait for it. it may come to that. it's a logical extension of current trends. when those with money and skills exit faster then the flood of unskilled government benefit seekers. we can't very well have all the greedy producers abandon all the needy voters.

      not too far fetched.

    6. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by irrational_design · · Score: 2

      How old are you? If you seriously think that the state of the USA now and the state of the USSR then are in any way analogous makes me think you can't be very old. And, the fact that you called it Russia and not the USSR makes me doubly think you are a young one. Were you even born when the Berlin Wall came down?

    7. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      Sending political prisoners to asylums on a regular basis?

      We still have the Guantanamo Bay prison open. Not really political prisoners, but a number are innocent yet still stuck there. The government does go after people who try to act politically. They just don't send them to asylums (usually). But they do try to intimidate them, interfere with their plans and try to discredit them publicly.

      Shooting people who try and leave your country?

      Yeah, we don't do that, thankfully.

      Covering up gigantic nuclear power plant meltdowns until there's so much radiation that denying it ceases to have a point?

      Remember when the EPA said it was safe for people to return to lower Manhattan after 9/11/01? It wasn't, and they knew it.

      So here's me saying that I don't really agree with you on your assertion.

      I don't completely agree with it either. But the US has dropped a few notches over the past 15 years when it comes to political and human rights. These abuses aren't so much about any political or social ideology anyway. They are about power maintaining power and can happen in any country given the right circumstances.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    8. Re:Is this a Bears Sh1t in the Woods story? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Sending political prisoners to asylums on a regular basis?

      Only the unpleasant ones. For which the US has a much more sensible system than the USSR had. The US learned that you don't have to silence everyone who speaks out. Only those that could have an impact and develop followers. That's also the reason for free speech, or what's left thereof. As long as you don't get too many listeners, you can say whatever you want, it doesn't matter anyway.

      Shooting people who try and leave your country?

      Only 'cause it ain't necessary. Where do you want to go? There is no "West" you could flee to. The whole world works to the whims of the US, there ain't many places you could go to. If there was any free countries left, rest assured that border patrols at the US-Mexican border would look north, not south.

      Covering up gigantic nuclear power plant meltdowns until there's so much radiation that denying it ceases to have a point?

      Well, hard to compare considering that there has not been a comparable nuke meltdown. But looking around the various other mishaps great and small that plagued the US industries I'd dare say that yes, things would be hushed up as long as you could get away with it. Though I doubt that the US government would, the relevant industries already have enough of an incentive to do it themselves.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  4. Re:The Big News by Opportunist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Less a yawn, more a "duh, we already knew the NSA is the enemy".

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. proper title by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    CIA Tried To Crack Security of Apple Devices when the NSA already did

    should've just asked, bros!

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  6. Compiler compromise by facetube · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Ken Thompson was a visionary, but he probably didn't envision it'd be his own government doing the compromising:
    Reflections on Trusting Trust

    1. Re:Compiler compromise by Prune · · Score: 2

      The process to detect this compromise not only exists, but can be automated. http://www.dwheeler.com/trusti...

      --
      "Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason."
  7. likely succeeded too by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    you know that DRAM hack-attack that was just made public? how much you wanna bet the US gov had a hand in making that possible?

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  8. Re:The Big News by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If privacy is dead, then let's put up webcams to NSA HQ. Also, the NSA is, in practice, a military organization. That makes it a much larger concern.

    --
    This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
  9. Re:The Big News by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The difference is maybe that the fire department can't yell "witch"... sorry, I mean "terrorist" and have someone arrested that isn't to their liking.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Re:The Big News by NatasRevol · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The very act of having an nationalized health care system would put as much personal information in the hands of the US Government any random NSA snoop of Wikipedia or break in on someone's mobile would.

    What utter fucking bullshit.

    Can my health records determine who I am friends with? Where I go? Where I browse online? Who I communicate with? What investments I have? And 100 other things the gov't could (and have) use as leverage to get information out of me if they wanted.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  11. I hope no one believe that is true by beefoot · · Score: 2

    I really hope no one believe what the article says. The government wants all of us to believe that we're safe and secured by the overreaching NSA. All USA government needs is to ask apple (or any companies) to disclose their encryption scheme. It is far cheaper and more effective than trying to hack or crack anything, don't you think?

  12. as well as insert secret surveillance back doors by phorm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't think this is a "tried to" at all, just look at the permissions a lot of stuff asks for.

    Facebook, a bunch of EA games, Angry Birds, etc all ask for insane permissions ranging from your full contact list, to seeing who you are on a call with to accessing the microphone. It's a spook's wet-dream.

  13. Re:The Big News by tnk1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    And neither can the NSA. Technically. Unlike the CIA, the NSA is a signals intelligence organization with no enforcement power and no operational branch to speak of. It's threat is simply that it can provide information very efficiently.

    In reality, any government organization has the capability to get you arrested, even the fire department, based on either an interesting interpretation of their powers, or their ability to turn over information to someone who can arrest or otherwise harm you.

    I'd also point out that in a certain book, the "firemen" were those who entered areas to burn that which threatened the existing order. The parallel is intentional. The government is what its powers are and how they use them. Labeling something as "fire department" or "police" or "signals intelligence" or "health care" is only valid in the sense that the government maintains that separation or can somehow be forced to do so.

    The problem with the NSA is *not* that they collect intelligence on US citizens. Your internet provider accidentally does that every day for troubleshooting purposes. It is that we fear that the NSA can turn into an organization bereft of limitations on what they can *use* the information for and who they can share that information with. The ability to get away with that can affect any agency of the Federal government, from DHS to HHS.

  14. Re:The Big News by anagama · · Score: 4, Informative

    For the most part, the fire department doesn't drive around stripping off insulation from electrical wires or drilling little holes in gas pipes under your house. Sure they _theoretically_ could, but the CIA is actually at this very moment doing this exact thing.

    The biggest part of this story is a poisoned Xcode, and it's not even mentioned in TFS. WTF?

    The security researchers also claimed they had created a modified version of Apple's proprietary software development tool, Xcode, which could sneak surveillance backdoors into any apps or programs created using the tool. ...

    The modified version of Xcode, the researchers claimed, could enable spies to steal passwords and grab messages on infected devices. Researchers also claimed the modified Xcode could "force all iOS applications to send embedded data to a listening post." It remains unclear how intelligence agencies would get developers to use the poisoned version of Xcode.

    https://firstlook.org/theinter...

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  15. Re:The Big News by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I will correct you on one thing. We don't fear the NSA will turn into something evil, we know it will. Power leads to corruption and abuse of authority. 70,000 incidents of NSA operatives spying on their significant others in contravention of the law with NO repercussions to those individuals is proof enough that the NSA will eventually abuse it's authority in a significant and likely very bad way to our democracy.

  16. Re:The Big News by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

    Damn straight, It's so much better to have a private company of unelected MBAs deciding those things rather than elected representatives.

  17. Re:The Big News by tnk1 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Although I am not as certain as you are, I agree that the NSA could use that power nefariously. I just think the outrage is missing the point. We're piling our dislike on one agency, while calmly ignoring the threat of the whole.

    I'm not defending the NSA. Far from it. I just want to clarify that I feel that the NSA is merely on the bleeding edge of that sort of abuse. We could throw every NSA staffer in jail and shut down all its functions, and all we've done is put a finger in an increasingly unstable dyke because we're not addressing the actual problem, just the symptom.

    The problem is simply that all of that information is there, whether it is the NSA or the FSB or Google that has it. The NSA isn't some shadowy organization using alien technology hundreds of years ahead of us, it's just slightly ahead of the curve. Until you address that, you're just going to play whack-a-mole with whatever agency decides to overstep its bounds next Tuesday.

  18. Re:The Big News by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    The NSA is no more the enemy than the IRS or any other government agency that will keep information on us.

    so... they are all the enemy

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  19. Re:The Big News by Gr8Apes · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Actually, no. With Google, I can still opt in or out. With gov backed NSA back-dooring every ISP effectively in the world.... I can't opt out without cutting all internet connectivity. See the admittedly minor difference?

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.