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In Historic Turn, CO2 Emissions Flatline In 2014, Even As Global Economy Grows

mdsolar sends this report from Forbes: A key stumbling block in the effort to combat global warming has been the intimate link between greenhouse gas emissions and economic growth. When times are good and industries are thriving, global energy use traditionally increases and energy-related carbon dioxide emissions also go up. Only when economies stumble and businesses shutter — as during the most recent financial crisis — does energy use typically decline, in turn bringing down planet-warming emissions.

But for the first time in nearly half a century, that synchrony between economic growth and energy-related emissions seems to have been broken, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency, prompting its chief economist to wonder if an important new pivot point has been reached — one that decouples economic vigor and carbon pollution. The IEA pegged carbon dioxide emissions for 2014 at 32.3 billion metric tons — essentially the same volume as 2013, even as the global economy grew at a rate of about 3 percent. Whether the disconnect is a mere fluke or a true harbinger of a paradigm shift is impossible to know. The IEA suggested that decreasing use of coal in China — and upticks in renewable electricity generation there using solar, wind and hydropower — could have contributed to the reversal.

56 of 283 comments (clear)

  1. Meanwhile... by ckatko · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...A man has cancer, and and he's still getting sicker, but not sicker at a faster rate, so I'm sure he'll be just fine.

    1. Re:Meanwhile... by Coren22 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you thought it was easy to cure all the world's ills, wouldn't you expect it to of already happened?

      The world doesn't stop on a dime, it takes time to switch to low CO2 technologies.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Meanwhile... by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      More importantly, this strains the argument that green technologies threaten economic growth. That means dirtier fossil energy is a lot harder to justify, and renewable energy more appealing.

      Could be the beginnings of a positive feedback loop. Here's hoping!
      =Smidge=

    3. Re:Meanwhile... by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Our whole society is based around economic growth, but as population increase beings to flatline this whole system will collapse. Look what is happening in Japan, soon that will happen in Europe and the rest of the developed nations. Immigration will help somewhat but after some time even undeveloped nations will begin to see negative or very low population growth and with it so will the economy growth.

    4. Re:Meanwhile... by Kjella · · Score: 3, Interesting

      So what did you expect, to tell the world's poor that if they get rich they'll pollute more and the planet can't take it, so stay poor? For the rich to say let's lower our standard of living to a third world country because it's so environmentally friendly? Genocide? We're making progress towards becoming greener in a way that will actually be acceptable, as opposed to all the ways that aren't. If curbing pollution doesn't have to be about hamstringing economic development we might see a lot more willingness to make an effort while now it's mostly a shit-slinging fight about who should bear the biggest burdens.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Meanwhile... by microbox · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Don't be so pessimistic -- we have the technological know-how to fix this problem, or at least, we are pretty close, and the right things are in the pipeline, to become mature when we need them. The article is alluding to this fact. The problem with AGW is political will, and bloody mindedness from the "truther" crowd.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
    6. Re:Meanwhile... by duck_rifted · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That depends upon whether curing the world's ills would too negatively impact those who hold the most power and wealth. I sincerely believe that when it really comes down to it, there are very powerful people who would rather see the world end than stop getting richer while it lasts.

    7. Re:Meanwhile... by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      More likely, it's the steady replacement of coal by natural gas. If carbon is as real a problem as claimed, this in the long run will not be enough.

    8. Re:Meanwhile... by Obfuscant · · Score: 4, Insightful

      More importantly, this strains the argument that green technologies threaten economic growth.

      No, what it does is require an answer to the question: what is the margin of error on the CO2 emission data? It's not a direct measurement, it has to be an estimate. If the error in the estimate is more than the 3% of the economic growth number, then this data proves nothing at all. The CO2 levels could have actually gone up 3% to match the economy.

    9. Re:Meanwhile... by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Informative

      coal has a lot of other problems besides just CO2, so the switch to natural gas is an improvement in other environmental areas besides just CO2 emissions

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    10. Re:Meanwhile... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Interesting

      what is the margin of error on the CO2 emission data? It's not a direct measurement, it has to be an estimate.

      There is not a meter on every tailpipe, so we cannot directly measure emissions. But we can very accurately measure CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. CO2 from burning fuel can be distinguished from CO2 from biological processes because the isotope ratios are different. We can also measure fossil fuel extraction and storage, and from that calculate consumption.

    11. Re:Meanwhile... by Phillip2 · · Score: 2

      It's a good point, but then the CO2 emissions have consistently gone up for years, so even if there is a margin for error and they get close enough to be within the margin for error, then it's interesting.

      Of course, it could also be just total nonsense, and the result of some strange statistical blip. Another possibility, is that it's the measurement of economics which is wrong -- after this is "the first time out of a recession" not "the first time". When I look at economics, I still get pretty depressed, so perhaps that it is the broken measurement.

    12. Re:Meanwhile... by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      But we can very accurately measure CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere.

      This study shows the best sensor tested had an accuracy of 30ppm plus 2% of the reading. That means if the reading is 500ppm, you can be reasonably sure that the actual value is between 460 and 540 ppm. That's a range of 80ppm, and an error of 8%.

      Second, while there is a correlation between atmospheric concentration and emission, it is not a 1:1 correlation. There are other processes involved.

      We can also measure fossil fuel extraction and storage, and from that calculate consumption.

      Nobody asked me how many trees I cut down to feed the fireplace this winter. You can get approximate numbers for some fuel supplies, but those numbers don't equate to CO2 emissions. Spills and evaporation will consume gasoline but not produce CO2, for example. Wood used for heating may be sold but not consumed, or it may deteriorate (rot or pestilence) such that it cannot be used.

      The emissions numbers are estimates. They have an error associated with them. If the error is as large or larger than the measurement of economic growth, then it is quite possible that the emissions did go up at the same rate as the economic growth. This failure to acknowledge errors in making statements that allegedly prove things is not uncommon when one wants to prove that very thing.

    13. Re:Meanwhile... by slew · · Score: 2

      what is the margin of error on the CO2 emission data? It's not a direct measurement, it has to be an estimate.

      There is not a meter on every tailpipe, so we cannot directly measure emissions. But we can very accurately measure CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere. CO2 from burning fuel can be distinguished from CO2 from biological processes because the isotope ratios are different. We can also measure fossil fuel extraction and storage, and from that calculate consumption.

      Although you *might* measure things like this, I'm pretty sure the IEA methodology in this report is to estimate the so-called "end-use" energy consumption and compute the probable CO2 emissions by scaling factors in the proportion of the different CO2 profiles of the different energy production means (by proportion of those production means). The CO2 emission scaling factors are taken from the 1996 IPCC Guidelines so are averages across many regions and industries, not measured numbers that include efficiency numbers. The proportion of production is survey information, also not measured (e.g, if a country reports 100 nuclear power plants and conversions from coal to gas, but those facilities are offline most of the year, the average scaling factor will be quite optimistic)...

      Also there are also changes in source data collection and estimation methodology from time to time. A critical example might be 2014 vs 2013 (as described in the report)..

      For the 2014 edition of this publication, end-use energy consumption data for the United States show a break in series with historical data due to a change in methodology. The break in series occurs between 2011 and 2012 for oil; and between 2001 and 2002 for electricity and natural gas. The new methodology is based on the last historical year of the most recent Annual Energy Outlook (AEO) publication. Changes occur primarily in reported end-use energy consumption in the industrial sector and its subsectors, including the nonmanufacturing industries of mining, construction and agriculture. Historical revisions are pending.

      It's all possbile that this is just a discontinuity due to change in estimation methodology rather than something real in some measured data...

    14. Re:Meanwhile... by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 2

      Nothing was wrong with good hunting grounds and plentiful wild fruits and grains on the east african grasslands either.

    15. Re:Meanwhile... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Europe had no anti science movements.
      To drill for gas, you need to have some.
      Surprisingly Europe is drilling for gas.
      You mean fraking perhaps? For your information: Europe is fraking since over 50 years. Note: unlike in the USA that is regulated and if you cause earth quakes or other damage to property the exploring companies pay the bills without making a big fuss about it.

      And yes, we import gas from Russia, especially German. What exactly is your point?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Meanwhile... by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      Well the terrible infant mortality and lack of a dental plan wasn't so attractive.

    17. Re:Meanwhile... by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      Atmospheric CO2 measurements do not use simple commercial CO2 sensors like this. Here's a description of the process used in the Mauna Loa observatory.

      One place on the planet, on the surface. Using a method that does not differentiate between CO2 and anything else that might absorb IR (except by using a cold trap to remove water.)

      Yes, there are highly accurate ways to measure CO2. Unless you want to argue that ALL of the ways used to measure it are as accurate, then you need to accept that there is an error in measuring it. And again, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is not a direct measurement of emission, which is what the article talks about.

      Compared to massive production of coal, oil and gas, a few trees aren't going to make a noticeable difference.

      It was one trivial example of how tallying up the sales of fuels does not yield an accurate calculation of CO2 emission worldwide. It wasn't intended by itself as proof that the calculations are an estimate.

      As for another comment that claimed this was carbon-neutral, I'm sorry, but no. Trees do not, by themselves, regrow from the stumps left after they are cut down. I have the stumps to prove it.

    18. Re:Meanwhile... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      The one European country that consistently supports science is France.
      Pfft ...
      And of course, everyone is familiar with Germany's replacement, in direct collision with the concern over carbon, of nuclear power with brown coal.
      If you are "aware" of something like this, then you are mistaken.
      Nuclear power in Germany is replaced by wind and solar.

      The last mention of fracking I heard of in Germany was that attempt to develop geothermal energy in an old volcanic stump in the southwestern corner of the country. As soon as the first tiny dish-rattler earthquake was felt in Basel, the Germans shut down geothermal development, and it was never heard from again.
      That was a Swiss project, not a german one.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12...

      No idea about what you want to rant.

      What have GMO, exit of nuclear energy, stop of a geo thermal project to do with "Science" or "Anti Science"?

      Science is done in universities and research centers. Not in politics or public opinions.

      If you like GMOs eat them. If you like a nuclear plant, built one. If you want a special geo thermal project, conduct one.

      However if you want to discuss about science, then perhaps start getting your facts straight?

      All claims you made in your post about GMO, nuclear versus brown coal and germany/swizerland geothermal plants: are wrong. Wow ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  2. Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by BillCable · · Score: 3, Funny

    I guess we've done enough to ward off all those hurricanes and droughts and tornadoes and dogs and cats living together. No need for a carbon tax! Congrats, humanity!!

  3. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by Carewolf · · Score: 4, Informative

    Just in case you are not being sarcastic, or someone is not getting it: Even with constant emisions, the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is still increasing, now it is just no longer also accelerating.

  4. Disconnect between ... by dmt0 · · Score: 2

    economic statistics and economic reality?

    1. Re:Disconnect between ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Precisely.

      Letting corporations and large banks borrow money at zero interest in order to purchase back their stocks and inflate asset prices is not the same as economic growth. Throw in massaged CPI numbers that underestimate inflation and we have what we see now, the outward appearance of economic growth in a declining economy.

    2. Re:Disconnect between ... by Tailhook · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And lack of demand for oil is due to economic growth?

      Obviously not. The GP is inventing a narrative to fit his worldview.

      The oversupply that has dropped oil prices is not due to lack of demand. The oversupply has been created by N. American independent oil producers that have absolutely flooded the market with non-cartel controlled oil. There is so much oil sloshing around N. America that they are having trouble finding places to store it. This activity, combined with an effective moratorium on pipeline construction, is why you keep reading news stories about oil train derailments, fires and explosions.

      Crucially, this new supply of oil is not controlled by international oil cartels. Prior to the fracking boom, most oil production (on the order of 93%) was controlled by nationalized oil companies. These nations collude to constrain supply. The appearance of a huge supply of non-cartel oil has broken this arrangement and caused a price collapse.

      --
      Maw! Fire up the karma burner!
    3. Re:Disconnect between ... by dmt0 · · Score: 3, Informative

      And that kinda explains why OPEC is not lowering production volumes, sacrificing North American oil industry - it's the non-cartel companies that are dying off.

  5. Another explanation by istartedi · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Another explanation is that the global economy has flat-lined or gone into recession. CO2 may be a leading economic indicator for the next crash. GDP figures are more easily faked than CO2 levels.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
    1. Re:Another explanation by jmd · · Score: 2

      I tend to believe this is true about the global economy. It seems to me the simple way to say it is: A lot of the money has been sucked out of the global economy and hidden away. Thus the money is no longer useful.

      Here is another leading economic indicator: http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/tourism/496613/macau-gdp-shrinks-17-6

  6. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by itzly · · Score: 4, Informative

    And even if CO2 stopped increasing, global temperature would continue to increase for several decades.

  7. Things that didn't contribute to reduction in CO2 by Mike+Van+Pelt · · Score: 3, Interesting

    But oh, no, it can't possibly be that China's fast-track of building new nuclear power plants had anything whatsoever to do with it, oh no, never never never never. (grumble grumble grumble)

    The CO2 problem will never be solved until the people who continue to loudly assert that they are so very very concerned about it get over their irrational dread of the only 24x7 source of energy that has the capacity to compete with coal.

  8. Not necessarily by JBMcB · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It could also be a result of increased biomass eating up more CO2. Someone needs to compare biomass via satellite mapping with the usage levels of natural gas, wood, coal and oil.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Not necessarily by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      I doubt that was 'measured' by measuring actual CO2 output/levels.
      It is more likely simply calculated from the amount of burned coal and oil.
      On the other hand if you had an idea where that 'biomass' might grow, publish it and get a prize :)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:Not necessarily by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      As far as I can tell the story was about direct human emissions of CO2 and didn't take into account any CO2 absorbed by biomass. The calculation probably just involved the amount of fossil fuels used and cement production (and maybe a few other industrial sources of CO2).

    3. Re: Not necessarily by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      Exactly right. As oco2 data continues pouring in, it proves that our measures are jokes. What lowered the co2 emissions is because china's economic bubble is bursting.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  9. Re:Things that didn't contribute to reduction in C by Klaxton · · Score: 2

    You're right it couldn't possibly be Chinese nuclear plants because they only generate about 2% of the country's electricity. As for building lots of nuke plants elsewhere, all you have to do is figure out how to finance them, who pays for the liability insurance (it better not be taxpayers), how to safely dispose of the existing waste, who is going to agree to live near them, and how to make them come online in less than 10 years.

  10. It is not solar and wind... It is natural gas by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Informative

    It is the replacement of coal with natural gas that is really dropping the CO2 emissions.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    1. Re:It is not solar and wind... It is natural gas by toddestan · · Score: 2

      Because of the fracking boom, we've got so much natural gas that we don't know what to do with it all, causing the price to crash, and given that you can convert coal plants to natural gas without too much difficulty that's what a lot of utilities have been doing.

    2. Re:It is not solar and wind... It is natural gas by LWATCDR · · Score: 2
      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  11. Re:Two problems by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Until the price dropped and it became uneconomic. Current fracking is just using sunk infrastructure costs, but unless the price goes back up again, fracking will die.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  12. Re:Things that didn't contribute to reduction in C by itzly · · Score: 4, Informative

    According to wikipedia, nuclear is only responsible for 2% of the Chinese electricity right now, and most of that was already operational in 2013. They are fast-tracking new plants, but it'll take a while before these are on-line. They are aiming to get 6% of their electricity from nuclear in 2020.

  13. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by cogeek · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wow, the level of ignorance here is astounding. When Barack and company had both the White House and both houses of Congress, just how much did they get accomplished on this? Or did they too "kick the can down the road?" Politicians are all alike, and if you don't comprehend that then just keep feeding on what they're shoveling to you. Maybe your determined consumption of political bull$h!t will cut down on some cow's carbon footprint.

  14. Re:This just in by itzly · · Score: 3, Informative

    This just in, Carbon Dioxide still lags temperature.

    Sometimes CO2 lags temperature, but even then it still leads additional temperature at the same time. Right now, it's only leading it. The oceans are still net sinks, taking up about 45% of the produced CO2.

    Seriously though, this appears to be implied CO2, rather than measured.

    They do both.

  15. Why all the anger? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does it seem to piss off so many people that there is a bit of good news? What the hell is wrong with needing less and less fossil fuel?

    It's like every time there's any story that indicates renewable resources are becoming for efficient and economical, there has to be this rage over, "But alternative energy's going to kill us all and make us have to live in caves!"

    I guess once you've grabbed hold of a narrative, you'd rather die than give it up. Little by little, step by step, we're going to need less fossil fuel. Don't worry, we'll let you keep your Hummer H3 matchbox cars to play with.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Why all the anger? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2

      I'm certainly not pissed off. I certainly don't believe this is good news, or much any news for that matter. It is a single 'data' point that has enormous (unstated) error bars and certainly does not give much support the thesis of the article - that there is not hard and fast correlation between CO2 out put and economic growth.

      The only interpretation that I can make is that the EIA - which is really a tool of the developed countries and particularly the energy exporting countries - is willing to discuss the possibility that we can drop our use of fossil fuels and not tank the economy. That's sort of new although they have been moving very slowly towards this over the past year (and as the evidence for replacement of fossil fuels gets bigger and bigger).

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  16. Re:This just in by itzly · · Score: 2

    The oceans are still net sinks, taking up about 45% of the produced CO2.

    Correcting myself here: 45% is the percentage that stays in the atmosphere. About 26% is taken up by the oceans.

  17. Re:Two problems by itzly · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A much bigger problem with fracking is the quick depletion rates of wells, both for oil and gas. It's normal for a well to decline to 50% or even 25% of the production rate after one year of production, and continue declining afterwards.

  18. Re:Things that didn't contribute to reduction in C by willy_me · · Score: 2

    The high price of oil likely played a bigger factor then nuclear power in China. With the lower price for oil, consumption will go back up for 2015. The high price lead to some investment in non-carbon energy sources but that investment has since stalled.

  19. E=P*S/T by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Where
        E = Environmental impact
        P = Population
        S = Standard of living
        T = Technology

    I was at a symposium some twenty years ago when I saw a well known environmentalist write that on the board. He wasn't being literal mind you; this equation was a metaphor for how these factors interact.

    The world's population is increasing, and already many people are living in dire poverty. We naturally want to raise their standard of living, but that will raise their level of consumption which combined with their growing numbers could have devastating environmental consequences. Fortunately raising the living standards of people tends to reduce the number of children they have, so we have something of a lucky break there, but populations are still likely to grow under any development scenario.

    The message was this: if we want to preserve the environment AND raise living standards, we have to get our asses in gear on green technology.

    Now I think it's premature to declare success based on preliminary data about one year; the "win" could disappear with the discovery of a few accounting errors. But I think there's no question technology has got greener and that helps.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  20. Re:Two problems by ArhcAngel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Which is exactly why OPEC has refused to decrease production. They are trying to kill off drilling in the US.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  21. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by hondo77 · · Score: 5, Informative
    You do know what a filibuster is, right?:

    Once the House passed the Waxman-Markey bill, the next step would have been for the Senate to have passed its own comprehensive climate and energy bill. Unfortunately, the Senate was unable to do so...S.1733 passed the committee by a vote of 11-1, with all seven Republican members boycotting the final vote...Citing a lack of bipartisan support in the Senate, however, Reid announced in July 2010 that upcoming energy legislation would not include a cap on GHG emissions. This effectively ended action on climate legislation for the 111th Congress.

    --
    I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
  22. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by quantaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wow, the level of ignorance here is astounding. When Barack and company had both the White House and both houses of Congress, just how much did they get accomplished on this? Or did they too "kick the can down the road?" Politicians are all alike, and if you don't comprehend that then just keep feeding on what they're shoveling to you. Maybe your determined consumption of political bull$h!t will cut down on some cow's carbon footprint.

    Unfortunately US politics is a lot more complex than that. The Democrats as a whole probably did want to get something done, however the Republicans REALLY didn't want to do anything even on things they could agree with, for something like Global Warming they would have been able to make it extraordinarily costly to do something.

    The Democrats simply didn't have the popular support to enact a serious climate policy, especially after they spent all their political capital on health care reform and economic stimulus.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  23. Another explanation-economy is really bad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Yes, this is more likely.
    China's economic growth has declined to lows in the past years, as Europe, Japan, and the US (despite all the happy propaganda talk).

    I can serve up lots of links on how poorly the economies are doing.
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-11/china-reports-worst-industrial-production-data-ever-outside-global-financial-crisis
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-13/what-happens-stock-market-if-us-follows-world-recession
    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-12/q1-gdp-expectations-are-crashing

    Let's see if the Keeling curve has an inflection !

  24. Re:Woohoo! Call off the Apocalypse! by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Democrats simply didn't have the popular support to enact a serious climate policy,

    That's the real kicker. If the public support were there, they would get something done, and Republicans would go along (heck, as hypocritical as politicians are, they might lead the charge. Even Bush supported climate change legislation when it was convenient). If public support were there, then politicians who didn't pretend to go along would be voted out of office.

    Even dictators work to manipulate public opinion, because even they know their power ultimately relies on the people.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  25. Re:Things that didn't contribute to reduction in C by mdsolar · · Score: 2

    The pace for nuclear in China seems slow compared to wind and solar. http://www.worldnuclearreport.... and nuclear power seems to be in a rut so probably it's only contribution is not adding more opportunity cost by being moribund. http://www.worldnuclearreport....

  26. Car analogy + think of the children by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

    A child has jumped in front of our car, so we took our foot off the gas and stopped accelerating. We're only coasting now, we're absolved and any further responsibility because it's entirely up to the child to crawl out of our way. Maybe in a several more meters (years?) we'll apply pressure to the brakes and give the child a little more time to not have his brains splatter onto our grill..

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  27. what fucking idiots. by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    The ONLY reason that it flatlined is because china's growth has slowed way down, combined with the west making massive cuts.

    However, america's economy may actually lift china's, which will mean massive increases continue.

    For those of you who do not understand this, this is REAL values as opposed to the assumed numbers for this article.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  28. Re:Cling Away by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

    More like a simplistic argument from someone who hasn't done their homework gets censored.

    I'm probably wasting my time but... First you need to realize the ocean and atmosphere are a coupled system with heat being transferred between them all of the time. Second the heat capacity of the ocean is at least 100 times greater than the atmosphere so small changes ocean heat absorption can make a big difference in the heat retained in the atmosphere. And the ocean has continued to warm over the past 20 years. It can't continue to do that forever without some of the heat showing up in the atmosphere eventually. (If the PDO is switching to a warm phase as it appears to be doing that will be sooner rather than later.) The slowdown in warming is probably from a combination of factors which are complimentary rather than contradictory as you believe.