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Why There Is No Such Thing as 'Proper English'

Pikoro writes: A recent article in the Wall Street Journal explains why the concept of a "proper" English isn't realistic. Quoting: "It's a perpetual lament: The purity of the English language is under assault. These days we are told that our ever-texting teenagers can't express themselves in grammatical sentences. The media delight in publicizing ostensibly incorrect usage. ... As children, we all have the instinct to acquire a set of rules and to apply them. ... We know that a certain practice is a rule of grammar because it’s how we see and hear people use the language. ... That’s how scholarly linguists work. Instead of having some rule book of what is “correct” usage, they examine the evidence of how native and fluent nonnative speakers do in fact use the language. Whatever is in general use in a language (not any use, but general use) is for that reason grammatically correct. The grammatical rules invoked by pedants aren’t real rules of grammar at all. They are, at best, just stylistic conventions.

6 of 667 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Dialects != Language by snowgirl · · Score: 4, Informative

    I imagine that you think Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are all different languages...

    In spelling, Norwegian has two methods of writing: Nynorsk, and Bokmål... one is more like Swedish, the other is more like Danish, respectively...

    But in the end, it's all just spelling the spelling, as they're all mutually intelligible. There is less different between the Scandinavian languages than Spanish and especially Arabic.

    There is less difference between Romanian and Moldavian than there is between American and British English, yet some Moldavians insist that they speak a different language in order to create an "us vs them"

    Linguists know that a language is just a dialect with an army.

    --
    WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  2. Re: Understanding rules looser than style guide ru by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    It will also help you succeed in society.

    While everyday English may become less and less formal, you will still need to know formal English to succeed in academia and the workplace. While more people may speak ebonics or write textspeak or whatever and not be stagmatized so much by their peers or even society as a whole, these people will never get a job speaking or writing like that. Teaching formal English is more important than ever.

  3. Re:Stupid question by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

    Comparing French to English is completely nonsensical. The former has a department regulating the development of language and purity laws that preserve the language and its use. The latter is an all out clusterfuck where the abbreviations LOL, and WTF end up in the Oxford English dictionary simply because they are in "common use".

    So if the primary dictionaries are based on common use, what then determines proper use?

  4. Re: Understanding rules looser than style guide ru by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Informative

    This is really an argument about values, isn't it? Quite a lot of people want "others" (and as your post implies by referring to ebonics, the other here is typically young black people) to value what they value -- a good job in academia or business. And want them to *de*-value, literally, the form of English they have grown up using, and see it as worthless to "getting ahead". This, despite the pretty obvious fact that if you used what you describe as "formal English" in the context in which many people live, it would be detrimental to your interests, just as using ebonics would be detrimental to your interests if used in a merchant bank. It's really about an underlying desire to not want alternative value systems to evolve, in which getting ahead may mean something other than getting a good job at a corporate or institution.

    As the guy doing the hiring, you had fucking better share my "values" or at least be able to fake it.

    It is my experience that those that don't want to speak reasonably correct English do so on purpose, and do to set themselves apart into a different (lower) class deliberately. Those speeking Thugeese and Dinduese do so as a way of fitting in with their group. I am more inclined to let the strategy work as I am never going to want to be around someone who's main negotiating ability is over who gets to sell crack on what corner.

    Speak however you want. No loss, it makes it easier to pick out the gems from the garbage.

  5. Elements of Style is not authoritative by sjbe · · Score: 3, Informative

    Author has apparently never heard of Strunk & White.

    The Elements of Style by Strunk & White is a set of opinions, not a set of rules. All the difference in the world. I can point you at numerous books and experts on grammar and writing that disagree with significant portions of that overused book.

    It's a bit of a conflict of interest for a writer to say there are "no rules", when in fact there are.

    There is no single authoritative set of rules for the English language. There are rules in the sense that there are commonly agreed to informal "standards" which persist for a time based on culture and comprehensibility but it is quite correct to say that that there aren't any rules in the sense of rules laid down by an authoritative body.

    Fads come and go, while the underlying rules persist, generation after generation.

    Quite simply not true. You merely have to go back far enough in time to get to a point where the language is no longer the same. Old English is for all practical purposes a completely different language than our modern version of English.

    If that were not true, you would not be able to make sense of Shakespeare today.

    Perhaps you haven't actually studied Shakespeare. Significant portions of his writing are quite inscrutable today without an explanation of the context, temporal usage and intent. That said, Shakespeare isn't so far removed from us that it is impossible to read - it's just a few hundred years and languages usually don't evolve that quickly. Go read Beowulf in the original Old English and tell me again that the rules of the language never change over time.

  6. Re:There might not be Proper English by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Despite everything, I insist that the word "unisex" is incorrect. "Uni" means "one!" It does not mean "many" or "all."

    In the word "universe," it is the "verse" part of the word that makes it mean "all things." The "uni" part of the word means "taken as one."

    The word should be "omnisex." That is what people mean when they say "unisex." So, that is what they should say instead.

    I secretly pass harsh judgment against everyone who says "unisex" when they mean "omnisex."