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Ask Slashdot: Building a Home Media Center/Small Server In a Crawlspace?

Posted by timothy on from the make-sure-you-can-retrieve-it-later dept.

An anonymous reader writes "I've decided it's time for me to build a separate machine specifically for use as a Media Center/Small Home Server. My wife and I haven't had cable TV in years, instead relying entirely on Netflix, other streaming sites, and hard copies we've bought over the years. Having just finished ripping our entire media collection (CDs, DVDs, and even our vinyls and VHS with the help of a capture card and some sweet digital voodoo) to a couple HDDs, I'm feeling froggy. Up until now we've been using WDTV Live, and it's been pretty snazzy, but I want to upgrade to a dedicated media machine instead of piggybacking off of my office computer. It'll be a Windows based machine utilizing Plex, and it's going in the crawlspace of the house. The crawlspace in question is unfinished, but I do have a dry concrete slab down there where I can put/mount/assemble something. Cooling won't be an issue obviously, and I am keeping a close eye on hardware specs with regards to moisture. It is still a crawlspace though. What would be a good setup to to house the hardware? Priorities being to safeguard against moisture, vermin, and dirt. Modified PC Tower? Rack? Build an enclosure? Something I haven't considered?

Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine." Do you have a question to Ask Slashdot? Fire away, with details, using our submissions form.

28 of 253 comments (clear)

  1. Waste of time by Chas · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Just build yourself an HTPC machine in an HTPC case and hook it to your TV setup. You have ZERO environmental control in a crawlspace. So something like a computer is going to suck up dust by the megaton, and have humidity issues all the time.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
    1. Re:Waste of time by jedidiah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you are really really really dead set on essentially leaving your media server OUTSIDE then the thing has to be beefed up to industrial or military grade specs.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:Waste of time by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or a certain amount of expendability(I suppose that that is arguably a 'military grade spec' in many contexts).

      It is repulsive how nasty a computer can get and, on average, keep right on ticking. Even in polite office environments, they fill with that wonderful grey IT dust over the course of a few years. In the non-air-conditioned houses of heavy smokers, it's a great deal worse and they still tend to survive.

      Military or industrial grade stuff, with shock mounts and fanless sealed cases and actual ratings against ingress under power-wash conditions and so on are great if you have really important stuff riding on the continued function of a given computer in a harsh environment; but if it is largely a matter of convenience you might well be surprised how long a more or less entirely normal PC holds out(and, unless you are really overdoing the specs for an HTPC, it may well be cheaper to replace it a few times than buy the hardened version once).

    3. Re:Waste of time by sexconker · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Dear Slashdot, I have a 1 and a 3 and I need add them and make 5. How can I add them together to get 5? Please don't tell me 1+3=4. I need it to be 5.

      There's zero fucking reason to put an HTPC in a crawl space. Get a small machine and stick it by/behind the TV. Minimal power / video / network cabling, minimal worry of dust / moisture / temperature, minimal issues with connecting to a keyboard / mouse / remote, minimal issues with access when it needs to be physically powered on off (and it will), minimal cost, etc. They even have cases small enough that you can mount them on the TV's VESA mounting holes.

    4. Re:Waste of time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Dear Slashdot, I have a 1 and a 3 and I need add them and make 5. How can I add them together to get 5?

      Use the 1 twice?

    5. Re:Waste of time by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 4, Funny

      There's zero fucking reason to put an HTPC in a crawl space.

      If they get an inefficient enough system, it may self-heat enough to keep the humidity out of the enclosure. Build this thing with a Pentium 133. Better yet, quad Pentium 133s.

    6. Re:Waste of time by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Personally, I would just stick a beaglebone black, or an rPi inside a conduit junction enclosure, and install it into the wall that way as a utility box.

      Image
      You can get really fancy, and use a housing intended for circuit breakers instead, and get a fancy door that way. Marking and drilling some mini-ITX ground stud holes, one could install a pretty powerfu home media system into a wall that way, and have it reasonably serviceable/upgradable.

      Personally though, I dont see the need for more than the small cube conduit junction linked above. A vanity wall panel can be installed on top of the drywall just below the box in the wall, with a button to reset the box, a USB interface, and an ethernet interface, routed out of the conduit. Hell, you could put the hdmi output on that panel too and have an in-wall home media server that way.

      sealing it really good with silicone weather sealant, and installing it with lots of silica desicant packs (really, any good geek should have lots of these by now), coupled with the low power draw of these kinds of devices already-- It's a total slamdunk, IMO.

      One could route a heatpipe exchanger through a small slit in the top of the conduit (rubber sheeting with slit, oval hole in conduit box, followed up with sealant.) and put a heatsink on the surface of the wall, if heat is a serious worry. I personally would put the conduit BELOW the insulation in the wall, (insulation is between the top of the box, and the drywall, leaving the back of the box in the uninsulated part of the wall) so that it has good exchange, and use the conduit box itself as a big honking heatsink.

    7. Re:Waste of time by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Is it that area of dirt between the joists and posts in a raised foundation style dwelling?

      Yes.

      Of course a lot of newer homes go the cheap route and have slab floors.

      No, they don't. You can't put a house on a concrete slab in any given environment. You see this construction in places like Phoenix and Vegas because they're deserts and it never gets very cold there and there isn't many problems with flooding or a high water table, but in any place where the ground freezes, you can't use slabs because they'll fracture with the freeze-thaw cycles. So in those places, you either dig deeper than the frost line and build a basement, or you raise the house so it has a crawlspace under it. Crawlspaces are cheaper than digging, but you don't get the square-footage bonus that basements give you.

    8. Re:Waste of time by hawguy · · Score: 3, Funny

      Subtract a couple of 3's?

      What are you talking about? 11 *is* 3.

  2. Please assume... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine."

    reads like

    "Please assume I'm a useless inflexible idiot"

    1. Re:Please assume... by robbyb20 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Could also be the wife doesnt want any unsightly computers in the main area and the crawlspace is directly under it and drilling a hole is easy.

      But yeah, being that stubborn is never a good thing.

    2. Re:Please assume... by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Funny

      Could also be he doesn't want his wife to know where he's physically keeping his pr0n server.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  3. NUC in industrial chassis? by jbottz · · Score: 4, Informative

    One option you may try is utilizing an Intel NUC computer in an industrial fanless chassis (something similar to this: http://www.logicsupply.com/com...). The NUC should be fine for a HTPC and the chassis is designed for usage in harsh environments.

  4. Sealed system by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seal all the hardware up in an aquarium filled with mineral oil - stays cool and don't have to worry about what's moving in and out of the case.

  5. Plex has changed my entire setup at home by robbyb20 · · Score: 3, Informative

    But I have to ask, are you set on Windows? I recently transfered mine over to a linux VM(windows 7 vm previously) and i have a bit of a performance increase. I can direct play at home while a friend or family member transcodes 1-2 streams at once for watching remotely.

  6. PICNIC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine."

    Actually there is no need to devolve into that. We don't need to discuss which places are better as you have literally chosen one of the worst places in your house for this. You will have issues with dust. You will have issues with humidity. You will have issues with small animals. There is absolutely 0 chance you will successfully protect your machine from these issues, and the fact that you have already discounted even the discussion of it proves you not only don't really want our help, but that you won't listen to it if we give it.

    All I am going to say is have fun.

  7. Don't treat the computer, fix the space. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Look into encapsulating the crawl space. I bought 20 mil plastic for the purpose, insulated the perimeter, and sealed all the vents. Humidity levels are now the same as inside the house, almost always cooler than the house too. The only issue I have at all is that by the middle of winter any areas that are tile feel a bit chilly over the cold ground, but not that bad. Feels really nice in the summer too which takes up more of the year here than winter.

    1. Re:Don't treat the computer, fix the space. by TimTucker · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed: for more details green building advisor has done a number of writeups on doing unvented crawl spaces and the building science behind the : http://www.greenbuildingadviso...

  8. either really cheap or really expensive by Chirs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If you're dead set on putting it in the crawlspace, then either:

    1) Go cheap enough that it's essentially disposable and you can replace it when it dies.
    or
    2) Go expensive with SSD storage and passive cooling in a totally sealed case. (To minimize environmental issues.)

  9. Crawl space by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While I don't have a server in my crawl space yet I do keep several other components down there. This includes my wireless router, HDHomeRun tuner, VOIP, and a small switch. They've been in the crawl space for about 4 years now. I live in a dry climate and haven't worried about humidity or corrosion. Here's what I've run into:

    -dust: We live near some farms and their is always a layer of dust in the crawl space. My devices are fanless and I haven't noticed problems.
    -spiders: Webs everywhere. I hope they don't get inside any equipment.
    -power: We have an existing light fixture in the crawlspace so I installed a GFCI outlet tied into that. I'm not an electrician so I just hope I don't burn the house down.
    -access: It is a nuisance to get into the space. The access is just a hole in the floor in a closet. I have to drop down and crawl in the dust to get physical access. But I rarely have to do this.
    -network: I wanted my devices hardwired on my Gbit router and so I ran my own Cat 5 wiring and install ports in the walls, etc.

    Dust and access are what have made me hesitate to put a server down there. I have enough dust problems with the desktops in the house that having to go down into the crawlspace to periodically clean or otherwise get physical access isn't appealing.

    In the next house I'm making sure I have a switch closet!

  10. Dust, critters, and humidity by Zitchas · · Score: 4, Informative

    OK, granted I know nothing about where you live, but there's those things to consider.

    First, info: What kind of crawl space is it? To me, crawlspace brings to mind everything from the enclosed space under a prefab home to interior unused space (or only used for wiring) in large structures.

    1) Do you know what the year-round temperatures are in the crawlspace? Depending on type, they can have a lot of variation.

    2) Ventilation. If you're sticking a heater down there (which is what this is going to be) it's going to warm up a bit.

    3) Insects: Some sort of metal cage to keep out insects would be highly recommended. Something along the lines of a server cage, but with mosquito sized mesh.

    4) Small mammals: This is probably best handled by a medium grade wire. Chicken coop wire sort of stuff.

    5) Humidity: sorry, can't think of anything, other than be careful.

    6) Dust: How are you going to dust it? Or prevent it from getting dusty?

    Ideas:
    - First off, for keeping it safe, probably be best to have some kind of dual-mesh cage to keep it safe. Outer layer made out of chicken mesh (something like a guinea pig cage would work well too) with a mosquito mesh netting inside it. Should keep the bugs and small animals out, but you'll need to do something to protect the cables.

    - As far as heat goes, I'd recommend two things: Firstly, use a fan-less cooling system. Less dust build up, fewer moving parts to break, and less maintenance. Secondly, I'd recommend using a heat sink rated for a lot more heat than you planned. More surface area to dissipate heat. Then you won't have to worry so much about the dust.

    --
    Z
  11. Sunken cabinet in the floor? by reactor451 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you're OK with doing some minor renos, how about building a sunken cabinet that extends into the floor? You could seal it off from the rest of the crawlspace to keep out the vermin/moisture. And you could also build something to hang some rackmount cases from so that the front panels would be facing up. This way you could get a 1U to run your OS with Plex on it, and then have a 3U case for your NAS. Oh and probably room for a batter backup too! You'd be able to put some sort of a cover over and put carpet on it so it would be hidden. But when you need to replace a drive or upgrade your system you'd have relatively easy access. This sort of setup might make cabling easier for you as well.

  12. You'll get bugs by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If it's warm and the crawl space isn't, it will draw bugs like the dickens. Maybe research those blue light LEDs and see if they really kill arthropods as well as they claim. Then you'll have mice. If the humidity doesn't kill the machine, all the mouse urine will.

    1. Re:You'll get bugs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As someone who had their car totalled by mice

      I am now picturing your car being stolen by joyriding mice who wrapped it around a telephone pole and then stumbled away from the wreckage in drunken laughter.

      I refuse to entertain any other possible meaning of your statement.

  13. Marine by HiThereImBob · · Score: 3, Interesting
    I'd look at marine computers, generally anything built for a boat is designed to survive your scenario (con: they are almost always more expensive). Here is an option:

    http://www.stealth.com/Waterpr...

    Product description for those too lazy to click:

    Sealed to IP67/NEMA 6 specifications The new Stealth WPC-525F is a rugged PC that is completely water-tight, surviving liquids, chemicals, dust and dirt intrusion and meeting IP67/NEMA 6 environmental specifications. Designed without cooling fans the rugged aluminum chassis acts as a heat sink to dissipate internal heat and provide noise free operation. The durable small form PC operates from a wide range of DC input power (6 - 36VDC) making it a perfect fit for mobile and transportation based applications. Stealth products are ideal for demanding applications within the Industrial, Commercial, Scientific Research, Military, Public Safety, Utility, Marine, Transportation, mining and Telecommunications markets

    If it were me, I'd probably just plug a 2.5" external HDD into a raspberry pi and huck it into a sealed 5 gallon bucket. But then again, I wouldn't be putting my computer in the crawlspace to begin with, so good luck.

  14. Re:Intel NUC by damn_registrars · · Score: 3, Funny

    Need space? Get one of the 5TB external Seagate drives for $130 bucks and find a way to hide the drive behind the TV.

    I understood the OP was asking for a way to destroy an HTPC install by putting it in a place where no reasonable one. I don't recall him asking for advice on how to destroy the data quickly as well...

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  15. Network Attached Storage by t33jster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned using a decent NAS instead of a PC for your hardware already. A 4 bay NAS from QNAP or Synology would store your media and serve it up via Plex or some other DNLA server. The footprint is small enough that all of the good points about not putting expensive electronics in a crawlspace become moot. HTH

    --
    Take off every 'sig' for great justice.
  16. QNAP TS-something-something with Linux by jddj · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I'm using a TS-119+ with a 2TB disk inside. It's sitting in my wiring closet.

    It's running MythTV for my TV/UPnP server, MythWeb for programming, Mediatomb to serve photos/videos via UPnP, and mt-daapd as an iTunes Music Server. I use PS/3s for the TV front-ends, and Roku Soundbridge 500s, 1000s, and 2000s for the music players.

    It's about as close to silent as you get - I think it's fanless (you can see I'm not concerned enough about noise to find out). And it uses about 6w when it's idling.

    I got into NAS solutions after I figured out running my MythTV system 24x7 was like leaving a 100 watt lightbulb on all the time, even when I didn't need it. I measured my old beige-box PC with a watt meter: a continuous 95 watts. And loud fans.

    The QNAP delights me. All I could ask for that it doesn't do well is transcoding. There's just not enough CPU for it. But that'll come in time with some other NAS unit, or with offloading it via scripting to a full PC or Mac, when I get around to it.