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Ask Slashdot: Building a Home Media Center/Small Server In a Crawlspace?
An anonymous reader writes "I've decided it's time for me to build a separate machine specifically for use as a Media Center/Small Home Server. My wife and I haven't had cable TV in years, instead relying entirely on Netflix, other streaming sites, and hard copies we've bought over the years. Having just finished ripping our entire media collection (CDs, DVDs, and even our vinyls and VHS with the help of a capture card and some sweet digital voodoo) to a couple HDDs, I'm feeling froggy. Up until now we've been using WDTV Live, and it's been pretty snazzy, but I want to upgrade to a dedicated media machine instead of piggybacking off of my office computer. It'll be a Windows based machine utilizing Plex, and it's going in the crawlspace of the house. The crawlspace in question is unfinished, but I do have a dry concrete slab down there where I can put/mount/assemble something. Cooling won't be an issue obviously, and I am keeping a close eye on hardware specs with regards to moisture. It is still a crawlspace though. What would be a good setup to to house the hardware? Priorities being to safeguard against moisture, vermin, and dirt. Modified PC Tower? Rack? Build an enclosure? Something I haven't considered?
Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine." Do you have a question to Ask Slashdot? Fire away, with details, using our submissions form.
Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine." Do you have a question to Ask Slashdot? Fire away, with details, using our submissions form.
Just build yourself an HTPC machine in an HTPC case and hook it to your TV setup. You have ZERO environmental control in a crawlspace. So something like a computer is going to suck up dust by the megaton, and have humidity issues all the time.
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
"Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine."
reads like
"Please assume I'm a useless inflexible idiot"
Bottom, far corner, that impossible area to get to.
In summer, unfortunately due to 7200rpm disks (not my choice) they hit 134f, so I've had to add a fan pointed directly at it which will run for about 5 months solid.
It's actually mounted there for noise, I've got quite a small apartment.
I'm also running FreeNAS on the server, I use a dedicated HTPC with Kodi (XBMC) on it for playback. Quite a nice, quiet, good looking one too.
I routed wires there with cable ties, drill, hanging hooks etc, it's all a pretty neat install, considering it's in a back corner with my spare blender next to it.
I've only once had to hook up a monitor to it, due to a poor upgrade from the FreeNAS crew, that should be fixed now. I'd recommend, if you can somehow - at least dangling a very long VGA cable off it or something or a very long USB cable. Even if you almost never use them, that one time you do, could really save hassles.
I run Plex at home and running a Plex-based media server in a confined space is going to be a pain in the ass for two reasons:
1. Heat
2. Maintenance
Your pirate, sorry "media backup" collection, is going to grow the more you start using this box for household entertainment. 4 terabytes turns into 8 etc, etc. Having easy access to your drive array is important, not to mention disk failure, and general maintenance (like dusting your near-constantly-in-use array).
And our old friend airflow, again, always spinning drives, CPUs running near peak to push the limits of decoding that hi-def content we all love, if it doesn't reboot like a drunken sailor walks then it's going to have a high rate of failure and you're gonna be cursing the day you stuffed everything in the smallest crevice possible
Get a decent tower with plenty of low RPM cooling options and buy a hot-swap disk array enclosure with a minimum of 8 drive bays
Something to keep errant critters from getting to it. And probably something to deal with the occasional bug.
You should also sleeve any cables you have in use, or conduit them if feasible.
One option you may try is utilizing an Intel NUC computer in an industrial fanless chassis (something similar to this: http://www.logicsupply.com/com...). The NUC should be fine for a HTPC and the chassis is designed for usage in harsh environments.
Seal all the hardware up in an aquarium filled with mineral oil - stays cool and don't have to worry about what's moving in and out of the case.
But I have to ask, are you set on Windows? I recently transfered mine over to a linux VM(windows 7 vm previously) and i have a bit of a performance increase. I can direct play at home while a friend or family member transcodes 1-2 streams at once for watching remotely.
Please assume I'm stubborn and absolutely dead-set on putting it in the crawlspace to avoid the discussion devolving into the 'best' place to put a media machine."
Actually there is no need to devolve into that. We don't need to discuss which places are better as you have literally chosen one of the worst places in your house for this. You will have issues with dust. You will have issues with humidity. You will have issues with small animals. There is absolutely 0 chance you will successfully protect your machine from these issues, and the fact that you have already discounted even the discussion of it proves you not only don't really want our help, but that you won't listen to it if we give it.
All I am going to say is have fun.
Look into encapsulating the crawl space. I bought 20 mil plastic for the purpose, insulated the perimeter, and sealed all the vents. Humidity levels are now the same as inside the house, almost always cooler than the house too. The only issue I have at all is that by the middle of winter any areas that are tile feel a bit chilly over the cold ground, but not that bad. Feels really nice in the summer too which takes up more of the year here than winter.
If you're dead set on putting it in the crawlspace, then either:
1) Go cheap enough that it's essentially disposable and you can replace it when it dies.
or
2) Go expensive with SSD storage and passive cooling in a totally sealed case. (To minimize environmental issues.)
While I don't have a server in my crawl space yet I do keep several other components down there. This includes my wireless router, HDHomeRun tuner, VOIP, and a small switch. They've been in the crawl space for about 4 years now. I live in a dry climate and haven't worried about humidity or corrosion. Here's what I've run into:
-dust: We live near some farms and their is always a layer of dust in the crawl space. My devices are fanless and I haven't noticed problems.
-spiders: Webs everywhere. I hope they don't get inside any equipment.
-power: We have an existing light fixture in the crawlspace so I installed a GFCI outlet tied into that. I'm not an electrician so I just hope I don't burn the house down.
-access: It is a nuisance to get into the space. The access is just a hole in the floor in a closet. I have to drop down and crawl in the dust to get physical access. But I rarely have to do this.
-network: I wanted my devices hardwired on my Gbit router and so I ran my own Cat 5 wiring and install ports in the walls, etc.
Dust and access are what have made me hesitate to put a server down there. I have enough dust problems with the desktops in the house that having to go down into the crawlspace to periodically clean or otherwise get physical access isn't appealing.
In the next house I'm making sure I have a switch closet!
OK, granted I know nothing about where you live, but there's those things to consider.
First, info: What kind of crawl space is it? To me, crawlspace brings to mind everything from the enclosed space under a prefab home to interior unused space (or only used for wiring) in large structures.
1) Do you know what the year-round temperatures are in the crawlspace? Depending on type, they can have a lot of variation.
2) Ventilation. If you're sticking a heater down there (which is what this is going to be) it's going to warm up a bit.
3) Insects: Some sort of metal cage to keep out insects would be highly recommended. Something along the lines of a server cage, but with mosquito sized mesh.
4) Small mammals: This is probably best handled by a medium grade wire. Chicken coop wire sort of stuff.
5) Humidity: sorry, can't think of anything, other than be careful.
6) Dust: How are you going to dust it? Or prevent it from getting dusty?
Ideas:
- First off, for keeping it safe, probably be best to have some kind of dual-mesh cage to keep it safe. Outer layer made out of chicken mesh (something like a guinea pig cage would work well too) with a mosquito mesh netting inside it. Should keep the bugs and small animals out, but you'll need to do something to protect the cables.
- As far as heat goes, I'd recommend two things: Firstly, use a fan-less cooling system. Less dust build up, fewer moving parts to break, and less maintenance. Secondly, I'd recommend using a heat sink rated for a lot more heat than you planned. More surface area to dissipate heat. Then you won't have to worry so much about the dust.
Z
If you're OK with doing some minor renos, how about building a sunken cabinet that extends into the floor? You could seal it off from the rest of the crawlspace to keep out the vermin/moisture. And you could also build something to hang some rackmount cases from so that the front panels would be facing up. This way you could get a 1U to run your OS with Plex on it, and then have a 3U case for your NAS. Oh and probably room for a batter backup too! You'd be able to put some sort of a cover over and put carpet on it so it would be hidden. But when you need to replace a drive or upgrade your system you'd have relatively easy access. This sort of setup might make cabling easier for you as well.
Some suggestions:
1. the crawlspace needs to be moderate in temperature and relatively dry. Deserts, tundras and saunas are best avoided.
2. You'll want a UPS if this thing's going to have a RAID storage setup. A RAID is not a backup. If it is very large, you'll want some way of storing at least one backup offsite that doesn't involve your internet connection. A safety deposit box works well. I know someone who just duplicates his array to a second set of disks once a month. If he's not doing the backup the disks are in the safety deposit box.
3. Hi res media? You'll want wired gigabit connectivity (or better for the backbone) if you plan on a lot of simultaneous HD. Some here will state that wireless 11ac/ad is good enough for everything but that really depends on the area you live and how your home is constructed. Firmware,driver and hardware combinations can also be issues. Plan for both, but a wire provides much more consistent performance which is important when viewing is the primary activity (ie the big screens).
4. You might consider two separate boxes, one for the system and one for the drives depending on the size of your space. This would make the backup plan a lot easier. Typical connectivity is done with e-sata. I suppose usb3 would work alright too.
I didn't cover every detail but this is how I'd approach it generally.
I realize you're dead set on keeping it your media center in the crawlspace.
But have you considered moving your TV and couch into the crawlspace as well?
If it's warm and the crawl space isn't, it will draw bugs like the dickens. Maybe research those blue light LEDs and see if they really kill arthropods as well as they claim. Then you'll have mice. If the humidity doesn't kill the machine, all the mouse urine will.
http://www.stealth.com/Waterpr...
Product description for those too lazy to click:
Sealed to IP67/NEMA 6 specifications The new Stealth WPC-525F is a rugged PC that is completely water-tight, surviving liquids, chemicals, dust and dirt intrusion and meeting IP67/NEMA 6 environmental specifications. Designed without cooling fans the rugged aluminum chassis acts as a heat sink to dissipate internal heat and provide noise free operation. The durable small form PC operates from a wide range of DC input power (6 - 36VDC) making it a perfect fit for mobile and transportation based applications. Stealth products are ideal for demanding applications within the Industrial, Commercial, Scientific Research, Military, Public Safety, Utility, Marine, Transportation, mining and Telecommunications markets
If it were me, I'd probably just plug a 2.5" external HDD into a raspberry pi and huck it into a sealed 5 gallon bucket. But then again, I wouldn't be putting my computer in the crawlspace to begin with, so good luck.
...cuz them Russian nukes and emp's are coming :D
I'm honestly not as worried about the humidity and dust as I am about the accessibility. I don't care what server you are running, eventually you are going to want to hit the reset button (especially during setup). Make sure you can easily access it for a quick reset, dedusting, upgrade etc..
I am assuming that your stuborness also applied to inability of using a Linux based server with Plex as more reliable, secure and just as easy to use and configurable alternative to Windows. Afterall most all media equipment nowadays is either Android or Linux based for very, very good and sensible reasons. One hardware sugestionwould be an industrial space Linux based already installed, designed for harsh environments. Thy also are very reasonably priced. is
QNAP is my choice for a nice NAS. A 4 bay one will give you 12TB + 4TB raid that you don't have to touch for a long, long time. Comes with all the software you'll need as well. Cheaper NAS would be the Netgear range. 2nd hand ones are good, but if you want a HTPC function and if you don't have Smart TVs then make sure it has an HDMI port. The HP microserver (G7) is ideal. 2nd hand ones are good too as you can populate them with 4 HDDs and run a SSD for the OS of your choice. If you need a TV card (with HDMI output) then it also has a spare slot.
These solutions are cheaper than building a small server and are purpose built for your requirements.
As for crawlspaces? I ran a complete system in mine (Win 2000) for a few years with no issues. It was off the ground on a wooden plinth (a piece of mdf on an old pallet). My crawspace is sealed from wind and light, but not waterproof as the arsehole that built the house stuck it on top of an underground spring.
Don't be apathetic. Procrastinate!
Need space? Get one of the 5TB external Seagate drives for $130 bucks and find a way to hide the drive behind the TV.
I understood the OP was asking for a way to destroy an HTPC install by putting it in a place where no reasonable one. I don't recall him asking for advice on how to destroy the data quickly as well...
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I don't have a crawl space, but I have a similar question. What is the best way to install a server in my shower? thx.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
$3k for a media server is outrageous.
I originally built it to serve audio to my squeezeboxes, but recently started using it to stream video via Plex. I used a Shuttle XS35 V2 (I built it a couple years ago when that was a current model) with 4GB ram and a 1TB HDD (for now). The Shuttle box is fanless- a good idea in a dusty crawl space, and completely silent. It is also very small and light, so you might even find room for it in the house. It can be mounted behind a TV easily. Total investment $300.
Vortexbox is a media server specific linux distro that works very reliably and is designed for remote management via a web server. It includes Logitech Media Server, Plex, and a bunch of other useful apps.
I have it connected to the network by ethernet, and it streams to two PS3s (with paid app) and one Roku. My wireless network (820.11g) is too slow for 1080p streaming but handles 720p just fine. One PS3 is in my theater system and is wired to the network and 1080p streams fine.
I'm a little surprised that nobody has mentioned using a decent NAS instead of a PC for your hardware already. A 4 bay NAS from QNAP or Synology would store your media and serve it up via Plex or some other DNLA server. The footprint is small enough that all of the good points about not putting expensive electronics in a crawlspace become moot. HTH
Take off every 'sig' for great justice.
I'm using a TS-119+ with a 2TB disk inside. It's sitting in my wiring closet.
It's running MythTV for my TV/UPnP server, MythWeb for programming, Mediatomb to serve photos/videos via UPnP, and mt-daapd as an iTunes Music Server. I use PS/3s for the TV front-ends, and Roku Soundbridge 500s, 1000s, and 2000s for the music players.
It's about as close to silent as you get - I think it's fanless (you can see I'm not concerned enough about noise to find out). And it uses about 6w when it's idling.
I got into NAS solutions after I figured out running my MythTV system 24x7 was like leaving a 100 watt lightbulb on all the time, even when I didn't need it. I measured my old beige-box PC with a watt meter: a continuous 95 watts. And loud fans.
The QNAP delights me. All I could ask for that it doesn't do well is transcoding. There's just not enough CPU for it. But that'll come in time with some other NAS unit, or with offloading it via scripting to a full PC or Mac, when I get around to it.
A crawl space is not computer friendly what-so-ever. You have humidity, dirt, dust, a water pipe leaking or busting wide open, critters, bugs, possible flooding during a heavy rain storm that can happen in a crawlspace. I would highly suggest you put the computer in a closet, a purpose built cabinet, in a different room and have it networked to a NUC that connects to the TV. The ONLY way I can see any computer surviving a crawlspace for any length of time is if the case is hermetically sealed. Which isn't easy at all because of wires and the need for cooling of the CPU, GPU, Chipset, Hard Drives and Power Supply. Keep it in the house in area that you can control the environment.
If you can seal your crawlspace, not that difficult, and if you have heat and AC ducts also in the crawlspace, you can insert a dump valve in the crawlspace (that's a weighted valve that will allow some air movement in the ducts to leak out) you have in essence made your crawl space part of your home. It will be heated and cooled as is the remainder of the house. It will not be as warm or as cool, but it will be better than being left to the changes in the weather. To do this, you install plastic on the floor and at least 12 inches up the wall. Insure you seal what is on the wall with adhesive. Then put insulating reflective plastic on the wall, leaving some room at the top for inspections. Be sure to seal all vents from the outside into the crawlspace. You heating system and cooling system will condition the crawlspace, control humidity and support your server.