Microsoft Says Free Windows 10 Upgrades For Pirates Will Be Unsupported

An anonymous reader writes with this story about some of the fine print to Microsoft's offer of Windows 10 upgrades to pirates. "When Microsoft confirmed it will offer free Windows 10 upgrades to pirates worldwide, many were shocked. VentureBeat has been trying to get more details from the company, which disclosed today that after PCs with pirated copies of Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 are upgraded to Windows 10, they will remain in a 'non-genuine' status and Microsoft will not support them. 'With Windows 10, although non-genuine PCs may be able to upgrade to Windows 10, the upgrade will not change the genuine state of the license,' a Microsoft spokesperson told VentureBeat. 'Non-genuine Windows is not published by Microsoft. It is not properly licensed or supported by Microsoft or a trusted partner. If a device was considered non-genuine or mislicensed prior to the upgrade, that device will continue to be considered non-genuine or mislicensed after the upgrade. According to industry experts, use of pirated software, including Non-genuine Windows, results in a higher risk of malware, fraud — identity theft, credit card theft, etc. — public exposure of your personal information, and a higher risk for poor performance or feature malfunctions.' Yet this doesn't provide enough answers. After a pirate upgrades to Windows 10 for free, does this 'non-genuine' version expire and become unusable after a certain period of time? Does no support mean no security updates for pirates?"

Comments

This is pretty common.

[jaseuk]

They have a similar policy with Home Usage Policies. It's a "Ghost" License, not really a true license with warranty rights, support, transfers etc.. You can use the product legally, but you don't own any license. don't expect to be able to transfer the policy or seek technical support.

This copy won't expire, but you can't really re-sell it, transfer it or seek any other benefits. The product will technically "work" fine and will receive updates and so on without issue. One area which isn't guaranteed is if Microsoft continue this trend of free upgrades from earlier OS, they might not permit free upgrade for this pirate/amnesty copy.

Jason.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Jax Omen]

Many of us who are "stupid and clueless enough to voluntarily run Windows" simply don't have a choice, the software we want/need to use is locked to Windows.

In my case, Desktop = Windows because 3 of the 3 games I spend most of my PC time playing are Windows-exclusive, laptop (which is more general-computing) is running Linux.

Re:This is pretty common.

[ckatko]

So in other words, Microsoft knows you're being a dick and using pirated software, but they're not going to do anything to hurt you even though they know you're guilty--except not patch your software which costs them bandwidth.

I disagree with lots of their policies, but this one is rather gratuitous and undeserved on our part.

Re:This is pretty common.

[jaseuk]

No - They've given you an amnesty license. Just don't automatically expect to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 or to use any phone / e-mail support. Don't expect other rights you'd get with full copies, such as any downgrade rights or the ability to transfer it to another computer or person.

Security patches/updates will work fine. These are legal restrictions not usage restrictions. It'll look like any other copy of Windows and work like any other copy of Windows. You just can't put it in a box and put it on e-bay, it's at that point it no longer exists.

Jason.

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

He was a stupid anonymous coward, leave it be, he showed his true face when he posted some Rant without the courage to back his opinions

Re:This is pretty common.

[Smauler]

I gave Microsoft about £100 8 years ago for this PC I'm writing on's operating system. Now, you can claim I'm stupid and clueless enough to have paid that money if you like, but you'll have to show me how I would have played all the games that I have done since without having bought the operating system.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

They have a similar policy with Home Usage Policies. It's a "Ghost" License, not really a true license with warranty rights, support, transfers etc..

just because terms of home use under a volume license are different than that of a retail product doesn't make it any less legitimate. it is still a validly licensed installation, subject to the volume license that grants such use.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Idiots.

You can't do any of those things with a *legitimate* copy of Windows!!

Re:This is pretty common.

[StillAnonymous]

You might have to qualify that statement with "DX9 or lower" games, since Wine can't run any game that requires DX10+ yet.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

He's just a retard. Most of us with jobs need software that is Windows-only (or at best Windows and OS X), like the Adobe suite, most CAD programs and so on. There's still tons of people stuck using tools that don't run past XP, or that use ActiveX controls that only work with 32 bit "desktop" IE and the like. Most people are locked-in one way or another...

He probably lives in his mom's basement, so a Linux desktop probably does everything he needs.

Re:This is pretty common.

[nanoflower]

I don't see how I can resell my digital copy of Windows 8.1 that I'm running now even though it's legal. I suppose I do get the benefit of being able to call Msft but doesn't cost money? Only time I ever called them was when this copy decided it wasn't legitimate one day so I had to call up and get that fixed.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you should have done what I've been doing for the past 10 years - learning and getting used to working with as much cross-platform software as possible, so that even if you don't want to move to Linux any time soon, you will still have the option to do so later on down the track if necessary, and you'll have a much easier time of it because you won't be dependent on anything Windows-only. I say this as someone who prefers Windows 7 to any Linux distro out there, but unless there's a specific need then I'll try to focus my attention of software that I know will be able to run in Linux, to keep my options open. Long-term thinking and all that.

As for games, since I had this mindset well before Steam ever arrived on Linux I've come to enjoy a heck of a lot of open-source games, as well as older games with open-sourced engines such as the Quake series, Duke 3D and etc. Sure it's not the latest, but it's still fun to me and avoids the bullshit I see with the modern gaming industry.

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

I pay for windows as well, no regrets - have moved my license across 4 different PCs since without having to deal with dodgy cracked versions with key loggers and Trojans pew installed.

Pretty happy, though I wouldn't at all be surprised if some of those pirated windows iso come from Microsoft themselves - half in an attempt to smear the reputation of pirating windows and half to mine data from those that do.

Re:This is pretty common.

[jaseuk]

It depends on the copy. Non-OEM licenses are usually transferable to another computer. You can of course sell that digital copy installed on a computer. - assuming it's not an upgrade SA right.

It wouldn't be strictly legal to sell a computer with one of these amnesty copies.

I've never used phone support, but yes they do offer it for Office and Windows, I'm pretty sure it's free, but time / case limited.

Jason.

Jason.

Re: This is pretty common.

[symbolset]

Reboot. * Install all updates. Reboot three times. * Uninstall all third party software and start over. * Reinstall the OS and drivers, all service packs, all patches. * Uninstall all third party hardware and start over. * Still a problem? Contact the PC manufacturer.

* Check for proper function.

There. Paste that to a file. You have Microsoft OS support forever.

Re: This is pretty common.

[chuckugly]

Wouldn't know, I've never needed them, Windows (and Linux, and FreeBSD) just work.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Uhm, I don't use Windows at all and didn't pay for any operating system I use, and yet I play quite a lot of games.

Re:This is pretty common.

[gl4ss]

they'll patch it.
if for nothing else to patch new checks for if it's genuine.

they've been patching non genuine windows's forever.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well it all depends on what you want to do. I had no choice a few years ago, but for the last two computers I've not paid them a nickel. There are other reasons though, better hardware if I assemble the box myself, I can deal with drive manufacturers directly instead of through a 3rd party, and I don't ever get stuck with Hewlett Packard putting "dud" dvd players into computers ever again. I also don't get stuck with un-upgradable machines, and (small) main memory being eaten by proprietary graphics (and no way around it). That mickeysoft doesn't get any money is just a bonus (although I suspect they have their greedy grubby little fingers all over the hardware manufacturers and still get their 'cut'.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to pay anything to get full functionality. For example, running one simple file (and blocking of one specific update) will render a fresh Win7 install "genuine". No technical downsides, moral ones depending.

Re:This is pretty common.

[hairyfeet]

But the rumor is it will be filled with nags complete with the background turning black and daily pop ups bitching and demanding cash.

If this is the case? then we can say Nadella has pulled his first Ballmernator, because he took the chance to get rid of pirates (which is a joke compared to their bottom line, less than 2% of their sales are upgrades and pirates aren't potential sales) and bring everyone onto Windows 10 and instead just created another Vista sized debacle.

You'd think they'd have learned after XBone but if the rumors bear out you can bet your last buck pirated Win 7 will keep climbing and Win 10 will end up the third flop in a row.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Its very smart.

Effectively this is a way of saying 'Free For Personal Use', without impacting on retail sales to much.

It wont stop revenue from PC manufactures who provide windows with the machine, nor will it stop a lot of mums and dads from purchase.

It certainty wont stop business sales.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Pi1grim]

>> No - They've given you an amnesty license.

No they haven't. They said you'd be able to upgrade, but windows will still bug you will "you might be a victim of software counterfiting", "your windows is not genuine" after a 30 day drial period. In another word Microsoft has just said that they won't specifically check for a license during upgrade. They will check after the upgrade, though.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Pi1grim]

>> Effectively this is a way of saying 'Free For Personal Use', without impacting on retail sales to much.

Where have they said anything of the sorts? It's like seeing a free Windows 7 iso download and running around screaming "OMG, MICROSOFT JUST MADE WINDOWS FREE". They will most likely push a 30 day trial as they always have, so you can upgrade a pirated windows, you can use it for 30 days and then BAM, you have to buy a license.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Blaskowicz]

I learned of a new problem with some Hewlett Packard desktops : an incompatibility with newer graphics card on not so old models (with Intel Sandy Bridge) and no BIOS upgrade to fix the bug.
That, and no way to lower the RAM speed on those OEM PCs to keep the PC stable when the RAM, motherboard or memory controller aged not too well.

On the other hand I've had some trouble with assembled hardware, software related, for doing dual boot or multiboot.. I have the bug of Windows-7-on-multiboot-fails-to-install-SP1 on my old BIOS based machine, and the friend's machine on UEFI gives me headaches : used to be that Windows 7 refuses to install (ha!) but I'm having trouble with grub2 seemingly failing to update itself (?) or stubborn on keeping the same configuration, so the dual boot to two linuxes still defaults to the "wrong" linux and the other linux doesn't use the new kernel I've installed.
So, due to the transition to UEFI you still can suffer crap even if you stay away from OEM PC.

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Alternatively, they are saying that you have no rights to use the software you have, a feature of that software is that it can be upgraded to windows 1.
They also point out you done not have any of the protections that customers who have entered into a contract for the supply of Windows would get.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a feature of the new version was that it leaked all your personal information to Microsoft, so that they can contact you to rectify the licencing anomaly.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

You claim Microsoft is a more secure, but are complaining about systemd. Oh the irony!

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

better than linux support.

Re:This is pretty common.

[drinkypoo]

So you are bragging you are running Linux which has more vulnerabilities than Windows

Wow, that was truly a massive douche move, and today, you are a massive douche telling lies and spreading fud. How does it feel to be a liar? That study shows publicly acknowledged vulnerabilities. It doesn't show the total vulnerabilities, because we don't know how many there are.

Nobody knows which OS has the most vulnerabilities. Repeating a lie in ignorance is even worse than telling the lie to begin with.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are bragging you are running Linux which has more vulnerabilities than Windows while being "forced" to run Windows for games?

Actually, your link shows that the number of high severity vulnerabilities is about the same for Linux and Windows, and it is higher for Apple operating systems. Also, it looks odd that none of the Windows versions have any reported low severity vulnerabilities at all (compared to the more natural looking bell shaped distribution of severity for Linux), which suggests that either Microsoft programmers have a strange tendency to only have serious bugs in their code, or that the vulnerabilities are under-reported and the less severe ones are simply not disclosed.

Re:This is pretty common.

[aaaaaaargh!]

Security patches/updates will work fine.

Hahaha, that's a good one...

Re: This is pretty common.

[wiggles]

If that's windows support, linux support is as follows:

Check /var/log messages for errors. Find cryptic bizarro language pointing to some subsystem you've never heard of. Craft messages as follows and post to Slashdot:

"Linux is terrible! I'm going back to Windows! I can't even get function XYZ to work! Every time I try, error message $ERR shows up in my /var/log/messages!"

Wait one hour before you get a response as follows:

"You moron, All you have to do to get that to go away is edit $CONFIG_FILE and restart $DAEMON! Windows sucks!"

Problem solved.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. That's what it is -- gratuitous and undeserved on our part.
Because MS is not in any way desperate to lock customers into Windows.
Because MS is not in any way realizing that the OS is going they way hardware did back in the late 80s and 90s, where you no longer needed a specific piece of iron to run a specific OS. MS lead the hardware revolution with MS-DOS and forever destroyed the hardware monopolies.
Now Google and Ubuntu are leading the OS revolution where you don't even need a specific OS to run a piece of software -- any OS with a browser will do.
BTW, I know we are a decade into this revolution, but it looks like MS is just getting around to recognizing its dominance in the OS market is moot is no one needs a specific OS any more.

Here's what MS is doing: The old razor trick. They are now in the position where they will give away the razor (Windows 10) and keep selling the blades (office) at a steep mark-up. Once they have a big enough share of the virtual office space locked down, with all those wonderful service contracts linked to all those glorious credit cards, all they need to do is keep spinning the upgrade crank and the money will roll in..

So this isn't really "gratuitous and undeserved" on anyone's part. It's Embrace, Extend, Engulf. That's MS's new motto.

Re:This is pretty common.

[pnutjam]

I haven't seen hairyfeet on here in awhile. I think he has some sort of bipolar issues. He's said a handful of useful things in the past, but he's just as likely to go off the deep end as he is to reasonably debate.

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

If that's windows support, linux support is as follows:

Check /var/log messages for errors. Find cryptic bizarro language pointing to some subsystem you've never heard of. Craft messages as follows and post to Slashdot:

"Linux is terrible! I'm going back to Windows! I can't even get function XYZ to work! Every time I try, error message $ERR shows up in my /var/log/messages!"

Wait one hour before you get a response as follows:

"You moron, All you have to do to get that to go away is edit $CONFIG_FILE and restart $DAEMON! Windows sucks!"

Problem solved.

Yeah, maybe 5 years ago. Now, you'll just be called stupid and to go back to windows. Users don't matter in the Linux community any more.

Re: This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Except the check /var/log/messages is a way to find the culprit, actually fix it and keep chiving. The "uninstall this and that" more often than not leads nowhere.

Re:This is pretty common.

[tepples]

Do you play the games on Linux or on a video game console? If you play on a console, you paid in the price of each game, and you paid by not being able to install community-made mods.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Samizdata]

One had to wonder how they will deal with the KMS replacement tools out there now.

Re:This is pretty common.

[TemporalBeing]

I've never used phone support, but yes they do offer it for Office and Windows, I'm pretty sure it's free, but time / case limited.

Not sure about Free; though they could have changed policy since last I checked (late 1990's) when it was:

1. First 2 minutes were free
2. $99 USD per minute after that

There's a reason why no one calls MS for support outside of Partner agreements, MSDN, etc. ;-)

Hopefully they've changed the policy since then.

Re:This is pretty common.

[TemporalBeing]

But the rumor is it will be filled with nags complete with the background turning black and daily pop ups bitching and demanding cash.

They started doing that with Vista. Win7 and WIn8 do that as well. so that's not new.

Re:This is pretty common.

[khellendros1984]

I've got a number of commercially-produced games with Linux versions. They work beautifully =) However, I've also got the other 85% of my games catalog, which will only run on Windows, assuming that I don't want to spend the time fiddling with Wine to get them working. I *have* in the past...but I've got less time now than I used to, and streaming from Steam on my Windows computer over to Steam on my Linux laptop works pretty well.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, judging by how Linux cheerleaders claim to love to "root" their Linux phones, you people should be happy that the developers continue to introduce massive security vulnerabilities in every single release.

That study shows publicly acknowledged vulnerabilities. It doesn't show the total vulnerabilities, because we don't know how many there are.

Studies are not an exercise in demonstrating absolute certainty. I'd recommend looking into religion if you're interested in absolute certainty.

For practical day-to-day purposes such kind of studies expose the hollowness of the "open source" == "no bugs" claims that many in the F/OSS community have been shouting from the rooftops for decades.

For the most part, open source produces poor imitations of existing high quality proprietary software. The only places where it produces anything of value, is when corporations pour millions of dollars into development (Linux, Firefox, Apache, Chrome, etc).

Smelly basement dwellers can only aspire to so much before reality takes over.

Nobody knows which OS has the most vulnerabilities.

Prove it, otherwise you're lying.

Repeating a lie in ignorance is even worse than telling the lie to begin with.

lol..

Re:This is pretty common.

[Aighearach]

I don't think many people who dislike MS Windows are worried about games. In fact, I think lots of people who use other operating systems for actual work on a computer also have a windows machine to play games. And even if you think windows is the devil, there would be little security risk because you wouldn't have any important private data on that machine.

If you're saying you do your real work in windows because that is your preferred gaming platform, then I would indeed say that is "stupid and clueless" if you're a computer nerd and either do paid work on a computer, or engage in serious hobby computing. Not for choosing windows, there are probably good reasons for that. But if you're a serious user, you wouldn't choose your OS based on games. Especially when dual-boot and VMs are both real things.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Aighearach]

Not everybody cares about "community mods."

Not all games are even on a computer. Shocking, but true.

Some games are "on a computer," but don't rely on native clients. For example, people whose main game is chess often play chess on a computer, but using a native client is optional. (and cross-platform anyways in most cases)

So there are lots of other possibilities beyond the false-dichotomy presented.

I grew up playing Oregon Trail and Moon Unit on computers. The closest thing to a "community mod" that we had was, "Cracked by The Nibbler." Now I play chess, because most games suck. New graphics + same shit. Not intellectually stimulating, not physically stimulating, just mindless button-mashing. I'm not saying there is no skill involved, just that it is mindless skill without a contextual connection to my life. And if I want that, Tetris is already a thing, and runs fine anywhere. Tetris is more intellectually stimulating than most new games, though. It is at least mindless mental exercise.

Re:This is pretty common.

[Aighearach]

No - They've given you an amnesty license.

That isn't what they actually said. That is just what people are mindlessly assuming. What they have said is that even machines without a valid license will be able to download and install the upgrade. That is all they're really saying. Their only clarification was to say that if you didn't have a license, you still don't. They haven't promised any forgiveness. They can still shut you off later, or send you a bill.

Considering the technical problems they've had with legit users having to fight the license checks, it is not really any surprise that they're moving away from tying the physical upgrade capability to the license check. That tells us nothing at all about what they will do instead to enforce the licenses.

Maybe nothing, maybe something harsh. We don't know. And from the history of the company, that could go either way. Believing anything before we get more information is ill advised.

Re:This is pretty common.

[drinkypoo]

I think he has some sort of bipolar issues.

I think I have some kind of bipolar issues, but how can anybody hate Linux so much? Did a penguin piss in his breakfast cereal?

Re:This is pretty common.

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe he got sued by SCO?

They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[NixieBunny]

Disallowing security updates to run on non-genuine copies of Windows is not exactly in Microsoft's best interest.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[amiga3D]

Exactly. They can't afford not to do security updates for the pirates because there are so damn many it'll cause problems for all the legit users. I hope they follow through because illegitimate windows installations are holding back expansion of alternative operating systems but I know MS simply can not afford not to do security updates.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Disallowing security updates to run on non-genuine copies of Windows is not exactly in Microsoft's best interest.

After push back YEARS ago, Microsoft allowed security updates for non-genuine users. No "feature feature improvement" type downloads though.

Interestingly, with Windows 7 at least, OEM-SLP loader method of "piracy" has remained bullet-proof. In the past 5 years it's been in use, it has always reported genuine, no altering MS binaries, and MS can't tell the difference between you and someone that bought their HP PC at Best buy.

So far with Win 8.x phony KMS servers has made it indistinguishable from a computer activating on a company's LAN.

XP you could just harvest VL keys from university and workplaces attended.

There are clean ways to "pirate" any MS OS, starting with a clean genuine install ISO, yet people end up with junky malware filled garbage.

In any case even if you get a free upgrade on this "genuine" pirated copy, I would expect to remain genuine, but not be able to call in for tech support, etc.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

Just getting you off XP to Windows 10 will be a huge security upgrade in and of itself.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[roc97007]

> In any case even if you get a free upgrade on this "genuine" pirated copy, I would expect to remain genuine, but not be able to call in for tech support, etc.

Hm. My Windows experience started with 3.1 (before that it was a VT100 terminal, Telebit modem and BSD) and in all those years, I only remember calling Microsoft Tech Support once, years ago, and it was a licensing issue. (A recently purchased laptop who's installed instance of XP persisted to show "not genuine".) It's only one data point, but I'd say that calling tech support might be overrated.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[war4peace]

Might be overrated for you. I happen to know people who work in MS tech Support center and it's a hellhole. The shit people call about would increase my suicidal tendencies to 100%, and I worked in tech support center and seen/heard quite the shit myself.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7127525&cid=49297279

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=7127525&cid=49297279

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Mr. Freeman]

Exactly, which is why they patch non-genuine versions. If there were a large number of compromised systems out there then legitimate users would suffer as well.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

I sell enough Microsoft products that I don't feel qualms about "pirating" it for my personal usage; I use a clean OEM ISO and download the Microsoft Toolkit (not made by Microsoft, obviously).

Currently at version 2.5.3, it has no problem whatsoever activating Windows or Office products from 7+.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Neo-Rio-101]

Interestingly, with Windows 7 at least, OEM-SLP loader method of "piracy" has remained bullet-proof. In the past 5 years it's been in use, it has always reported genuine, no altering MS binaries, and MS can't tell the difference between you and someone that bought their HP PC at Best buy.

It will be interesting to see if upgrading a OEM-SLP Windows Loadered Windows 7 maintains full "genuine" status on an upgrade to Windows 10.

If so, it's going to be a pirate free-for-all on Windows 10, just like Windows 7

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[roc97007]

I get it, but have to point out that any call center can be made a hellhole merely by being understaffed, which many are, because they're usually not a profit center.

I do tech support myself, and often it depends on how you approach it. It's important to remember, for instance, that the people calling you are users, not geeks. Their job often isn't to understand the inner workings of the product. Their job is usually something that involves *using* the product, and they can't do their job if the product isn't working correctly. For instance, my wife is an accountant, and she doesn't know or care about plugin version numbers, or why a particular version of a plugin won't work with the database product she has to use, even though both are from the same manufacturer and both have been auto-updated to the latest version. It's not her job to understand those things, any more than it's your job to understand the technical aspects of what she's trying to do.

But then, there's the people without the sense God gave a goose, who got onea them there laptop thingies in a raffle, and can't figure out how to make it show pr0n. Admittedly, they can be a problem. But even then, there's potential to be amused rather than aggravated.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

It's important to remember, for instance, that the people calling you are users, not geeks.

That's a nice way of saying, "anytime they wait on hold for 15-45 minutes to ask a question that's answered on page 1 of the documentation, the help file, the FAQ, and a ten-second Google search, they should be rounded up, forcibly surgically sterilized, publically flogged, and informed that we are merciful people who gave stupidity a lighter punishment than it actually deserves".

I'd rather go on welfare than work another tech support job. My faith in our species can't take much more damage. If industrialized nations had about a 6% literacy rate, then and only then would most of the questions be perfectly sensible and understandable. There is something direly wrong with a human being when you tell them "please RIGHT-click, being sure to use your RIGHT MOUSE BUTTON" and they double-left-click and act puzzled that they did not see the menu that should have been there... You're not a computer expert? Fine, no one is expecting you to be. But you do know left from right, don't you? This is kindergarten material here...

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[AK Marc]

And lifetime licenses expire. I have an XP license I "stole" from an old computer being thrown away. It wasn't OEM, but was a full license. I tried activating it with MS for a new install, and the activation failed. I called MS and they said that the license was not valid. And when they expire them, there's no discussion. It's just dead. Forever. And no, it wasn't from a licensing contract or such that expires. It was a full-retail purchase, expired by MS, for reasons unknown.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[PixetaledPikachu]

Hey stupid. The legit uses have legal copies and will get updates.

Hey genius! Those machines running broken illegal copies will get infected and become zombies. Who will get DDOSed by them? Those with legal copies, or services used by those legit users

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Dutch Gun]

It's not "reasons unknown". You don't buy lifetime licenses from MS. Windows licenses are tied to the computer itself - or most specifically, the motherboard. New computer, new license required.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Dutch Gun]

That's a nice way of saying, "anytime they wait on hold for 15-45 minutes to ask a question that's answered on page 1 of the documentation, the help file, the FAQ, and a ten-second Google search, they should be rounded up, forcibly surgically sterilized, publically flogged, and informed that we are merciful people who gave stupidity a lighter punishment than it actually deserves".

Have you considered that perhaps you're just not a people person? Maybe a job dealing with the public just isn't for you.

I'd rather go on welfare than work another tech support job.

I'd rather you work for a living than sucking off the government teat, which happens to be paid for by your fellow citizens, most of whom are also working at shitty jobs.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Threni]

OEM, sure. But it's not my understanding that if you buy a PC and buy the full, expensive version of windows and the PC dies and you buy a new pc then you need to buy another copy of windows. Otherwise....why would anyone pay for the full version; you'd get the oem, right?

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Hognoxious]

I needed to reinstall XP on an old laptop because it was the only thing in the house with a firewire port.

It said the key from the original sticker on the base was invalid.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Dutch Gun]

After searching a bit, I think you're right. Apparently, if you use a retail/upgrade version, you can install on new machines, but you're still restricted to using the license only on one machine at a time. If you got an OEM version, it's tied to your motherboard, so you can't transfer the license to a new computer.

I've read a few places saying that this wasn't true for Windows 8/8.1, but the information out there seems a bit confused, so I'm not certain of that.

I was under the impression that this was true of all copies of Windows, but that clearly seems to be not the case.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[LinuxIsGarbage]

It will be interesting to see if upgrading a OEM-SLP Windows Loadered Windows 7 maintains full "genuine" status on an upgrade to Windows 10.

If so, it's going to be a pirate free-for-all on Windows 10, just like Windows 7

When Windows 8 was released there was a free upgrade for Windows Pro users to Windows 8 Pro Pack. You could install Windows 8 Pro, activate against KMS, then upgrade to Pro Pack. It would then be permanently activated. Microsoft caught on and stopped letting new KMS clients upgrade to Propack.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[LinuxIsGarbage]

And lifetime licenses expire. I have an XP license I "stole" from an old computer being thrown away. It wasn't OEM, but was a full license. I tried activating it with MS for a new install, and the activation failed. I called MS and they said that the license was not valid. And when they expire them, there's no discussion. It's just dead. Forever. And no, it wasn't from a licensing contract or such that expires. It was a full-retail purchase, expired by MS, for reasons unknown.

One reason why I'll buy licenses (to support the product, like $40 upgrades to Win 7 Pro), but then install the pirated copy. Never have to worry about shit like that. Kind of like how Pirated movies don't have previews and unskippable content like DVDs you buy.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[LinuxIsGarbage]

Were you using OEM media? With XP a Retail disk won't except an OEM key.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[war4peace]

You're amused at first. Then bored. Then mad. Then legally insane.
It's all about repetition. You encounter a ridiculous question once, it's worth a hearty laugh. But when you encounter the same question 1000 times, asked by 1000 total morons, it's way, way beyond funny.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

If putting up with idiocy that should have already been fatal for the afflicted is what constitutes a "people person", and in this society it surely is, then no I'm not a people person, and no one else should be either.

Wait till you get the dictatorship that masses of idiots deserve. It'll make the Third Reich seem like a haven of justice and fairness. Then and perhaps only then will you understand that widespread stupidity with nothing to keep it in check, not even social shame, has all kinds of network effects and will eventually fuck with your life. They can't read page 1 of a manual written in 5th-grade English? Gee, I wonder how well they will detect a power grab.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been hearing that same "it's tied to the motherboard" thing since Vista. It's a load of bull.

I've upgraded the motherboard in my PC twice since I first installed my current copy of Windows 7 Pro (OEM license purchased from Newegg). I've never had any trouble activating it, not even a call-in to verify and manually reset the activation count. There was always at least a 6-month gap between activations. IIRC, in the XP days, that was the reset timeout on activations, and it seems that it still is. And if you're reinstalling Windows more often than every 6 months, you're doing it wrong.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

Small claims court.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[Anonymous Coward]

One reason why I'll buy licenses (to support the product, like $40 upgrades to Win 7 Pro), but then install the pirated copy. Never have to worry about shit like that. Kind of like how Pirated movies don't have previews and unskippable content like DVDs you buy.

You make me laugh; you ape the freedom linux gives you by adopting more and more convoluted behaviour to avoid Microsoft's wrath and you're still willing to give them money for their inferior product.

Wake up and smell the coffee

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[roc97007]

Yeah, and you know, I do encounter that. Even worse, since over 80% of IT at this company is "least expensive shore" now, I get it from two different directions -- from the users, and from the tragically incompetent offshore admins I have to work through to get the problem fixed, because they have root and I don't anymore. If anything irritates me, it's the latter.

Because, users shouldn't have to know this technical stuff in order to do a job that's not related to knowing this stuff. Any more than a bus driver should know how a diesel engine works. In contrast, admins have no excuse, because it's their *job* to know how. (Or in the current business model, it's their job to leaf through prewritten procedures looking for one that vaguely matches the request.)

Technical support is not an easy job, for precisely the reasons you describe. What I was attempting to describe is a reason not to take it personally. As someone else said, technical support is not for everyone. You need a thick skin and the ability to deal rationally with frustrated people with little technical knowledge. Think about it -- if they knew how to do it, they wouldn't need you. And if they weren't frustrated, they'd be playing Minesweeper instead of calling you.

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[war4peace]

They still need to know the components of an air-brake system, for example.

Air Brakes
5.1 The Parts of an Air Brake System
5.2 Dual Air Brake
5.3 Inspecting Air Brake Systems
5.4 Using Air Brakes

http://www.dol.wa.gov/driversl...

Re:They'd be shooting themselves in the foot

[AK Marc]

OEM is not tied to anything. You can buy an OEM copy with a Hard drive (I think that's the minimum to define a computer, if not now, then once upon a time). It won't be pre-installed or "tied" to anything. You can then take that OEM and install it as an "illegal" upgrade on a different system. I've done that myself, so I know it works.

And when trying to stop things like that, MS has blocked actual legal use according to their license terms.

Even Microsoft doesn't know what they mean...

[Jax Omen]

This whole situation reeks of left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

Oh well, I got my legit win7 licenses through A) student deals and B) family packs, so *if* I choose to upgrade, I'll be "genuine".

TBH I just hope the games I play get proper Linux ports so I can finally dump windows entirely.

Re:Even Microsoft doesn't know what they mean...

[Anonymous Coward]

This whole situation reeks of left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing...

Oh well, I got my legit win7 licenses through A) student deals and B) family packs, so *if* I choose to upgrade, I'll be "genuine".

TBH I just hope the games I play get proper Linux ports so I can finally dump windows entirely.

It's important to recognize that not everyone is intelligent enough to figure out how to use WINE. No, not even when PlayOnLinux makes it stupid-easy.

Re: Even Microsoft doesn't know what they mean...

[symbolset]

They know what they are doing - for the first time in many years. Windows devices are currently 14% of global computing devices sales. Their 1.5 billion unit installed base is already less than Android's 2 billion plus and its advantage is eroding at a billion units a year. It is incredibly fragmented, with only 15% of their own users on version 8+ able to access the latest version of their browser. They must consolidate their base if they hope to leverage it into a credible entry into the mobile space. And they are out of time. If this fails, by the time a "next version" is ready they will be in Blackberry share land because between them Android and iOS will be moving 2 billion units a year, their installed base will be greater than 4 billion, and there are only 7 billion humans - many of whom are too young, one, poor to count at all.

Re: Even Microsoft doesn't know what they mean...

[goose-incarnated]

They know what they are doing - for the first time in many years. Windows devices are currently 14% of global computing devices sales. Their 1.5 billion unit installed base is already less than Android's 2 billion plus and its advantage is eroding at a billion units a year. It is incredibly fragmented, with only 15% of their own users on version 8+ able to access the latest version of their browser. They must consolidate their base if they hope to leverage it into a credible entry into the mobile space. And they are out of time. If this fails, by the time a "next version" is ready they will be in Blackberry share land because between them Android and iOS will be moving 2 billion units a year, their installed base will be greater than 4 billion, and there are only 7 billion humans - many of whom are too young, one, poor to count at all.

They can still save themselves without giving it away for free. I'd buy Windows 10 if the price was around 20USD for the full non-crippled run-as-many-processes-and-users-as-you-want version, rather than 100USD for the crippled home-user-who-only-runs-one-program-at-a-time. As it stands, I've got Win7, won't move off it due to their stupid pricing but will gladly upgrade to Win10 for free if it is anything like Win7. If it wasn't free, I am willing to pay up to 20USD for Win10, but won't "upgrade" to Win10 if the upgrade is to a crippled home version of Win10.

Re: Even Microsoft doesn't know what they mean...

[WuphonsReach]

The core issue with WinVista and later?

Too many SKUs (combined with cost).

Trying to keep track of what features came with WinVista X vs Y vs Z (or Win7 SKUs or Win 8.1 with five different SKUs) was very consumer-hostile. Consumers got confused and annoyed. Plus there was a huge cost difference between the top-end SKU and the home edition.

There should only have been (1) version of Windows 7 -- with all of the bells and whistles included in Enterprise/Ultimate/DaddyGates editions -- for a maximum of about $60 per copy, or $30/copy if purchased in a 5-pack.

People would then have upgraded in much larger numbers from WinXP to Win7. Instead, because Microsoft got greedy in the prices it charged for the OpSys, people started looking at alternatives.

Back in the early 2000s, a decent rig would run you $1500-$1800 and a $100 license on top of that wasn't too big of a deal. Ten years later, a decent rig is about $600, but the cost of the operating system has gone up to $150. Microsoft is asking people to pay 25% of the computer's value for the Operating System instead of under 10%.

More important to me

[darkain]

What about all the PCs that were shipped with valid licenses, but for whatever reason, techs (such as myself) have had to install a fresh copy of Windows on the box. Could be a failed drive, or other failed hardware, or whatever, reason doesn't matter too much. The point is that it shipped with a legit copy of Windows, and often times doesn't have a recovery disk or an OEM copy of Windows. What are we supposed to do then as techs? Tell the customer "SUCKS TO BE YOU" or "GOTTA PAY FOR THE THING YOU ALREADY PAID FOR, AGAIN" - or just suck it up and install a "non-genuine" license key on the box? Are these users totally SOL out of having a genuine upgrade to Windows 10 because the previous version of Windows that shipped with the system became broken?

Re:More important to me

[John.Banister]

Isn't the product key for those generally embedded in BIOS?

Re:More important to me

[ckatko]

Anyone with a valid license can easily call tech support and yell at them. As long as you yell at them enough you get a free key. I know plenty of people who do that every time they want a new key even though they've never bought one. It's sketchy, but to imply legitimize users can't get their keys is an outright lie.

Re:More important to me

[Anonymous Coward]

What about all the PCs that were shipped with valid licenses, but for whatever reason, techs (such as myself) have had to install a fresh copy of Windows on the box. Could be a failed drive, or other failed hardware, or whatever, reason doesn't matter too much. The point is that it shipped with a legit copy of Windows, and often times doesn't have a recovery disk or an OEM copy of Windows. What are we supposed to do then as techs? Tell the customer "SUCKS TO BE YOU" or "GOTTA PAY FOR THE THING YOU ALREADY PAID FOR, AGAIN" - or just suck it up and install a "non-genuine" license key on the box? Are these users totally SOL out of having a genuine upgrade to Windows 10 because the previous version of Windows that shipped with the system became broken?

If you're installing pirated versions of Windows on computers people bring to you to fix and you're not telling them, then passing the computer back as legitimately fixed, you are one sleazy jackass.

Please, tell us where you work so we can NEVER go there.

Re:More important to me

[Shados]

If you bought a PC with a legitimate version of Windows and you don't have a product key with it, you more or less got screwed.

Even then, assuming again that its legitimate, you can recover the product key and reinstall with it from a vanilla disk. The OEM product keys have been legit for installing with any other ISO/disk for a long time now.

Re:More important to me

[Anonymous Coward]

They started that with Win8. Older ones had the OEM license sticker on the case somewhere. Although on the bottom of laptops sometimes it would rub off and then you're screwed. Even if the machine still runs, unless it was reinstalled by hand, the license code in the software won't match the one on the case so you can't even pull out the right key.

Re:More important to me

[Anonymous Coward]

With people on old boxes sick of malware and mostly wanting to surf, it sure is good to have Ubuntu as an option. If it does what they need, it'll keep doing it. Most really like the suppositories too. I won't offer to do a Windows install. They're on their own for that. I liken it to an opportunity for a smoker to quit.
I agree they should be able to reinstall without being made to feel like a crook, no code or eyeball insertion etc $10 would be okay.

If there was a "crippled" but bloatless legal free Windows for VM use I might try it..
Cripple it by taking out IE, please!

Re:More important to me

[Dutch Gun]

If the computer came with a legitimate copy of Windows, the license should be stuck on the back of the box, as required by Microsoft of OEMs. You can install Windows fresh from your own disc and just re-enter the license code from that sticker. Microsoft recently started allowing ISO downloads of supported versions of Windows, so a tech should always have their own copy of Windows to use if needed.

New hardware won't generally cause problems with license activation unless you change the motherboard, and then only if you use a different motherboard than the original. At that point, MS considers it a new machine and therefore probably won't transfer the license, although you could always call MS support and make your case. Replacing a drive or any other single component should not cause issues with the license activation. If the customer doesn't have an activation code or you replace the motherboard with a new model, then yes, your customers would have to buy another license. Or switch to Linux.

It's been like this since the Windows XP days, so I think it's fair to assume that Windows 10 will work in a similar fashion, with the exceptions listed by MS. And that actually make things more lenient, not more strict.

Re:More important to me

[AK Marc]

I have a full-XP license copied off a retail box. It's installed on one computer in the world. While that computer was dead, I tried to use it on a different computer. It came up as "not valid". an hour on the phone, and they still hadn't offered me a new key. How long must one yell at them to get a new key when they report a valid one as invalid?

Re:More important to me

[Anonymous Coward]

I dare you to find the sticker containing the license key for a copy of Windows 8.

Re:More important to me

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true with Windows 8.

Re:More important to me

[TemporalBeing]

What about all the PCs that were shipped with valid licenses, but for whatever reason, techs (such as myself) have had to install a fresh copy of Windows on the box. Could be a failed drive, or other failed hardware, or whatever, reason doesn't matter too much. The point is that it shipped with a legit copy of Windows, and often times doesn't have a recovery disk or an OEM copy of Windows. What are we supposed to do then as techs? Tell the customer "SUCKS TO BE YOU" or "GOTTA PAY FOR THE THING YOU ALREADY PAID FOR, AGAIN" - or just suck it up and install a "non-genuine" license key on the box? Are these users totally SOL out of having a genuine upgrade to Windows 10 because the previous version of Windows that shipped with the system became broken?

Because in that case you should call the computer manufacturer and get a copy of the installation disks to restore onto the new drive with.

While I'm aware most people don't, if I was buying a Windows computer, I wouldn't buy it without the restore disks for that exact reason. HP charges $19 for the disks; BestBuy will make the disks for you for a small fee too.

In the end, there is zero reason to have to re-buy the Windows OS in order to help your customers.

P.S You can only use an OEM License with an OEM installation; so a Retail installation set won't work with the OEM license on the box. If you're a support shop then you should have a copy of the OEM installation for your own uses any way. That's just good business. If you're doing it on your own for Friends and Family, then just take the extra time to get it from the OEM (e.g HP, Asus, Lenovo, etc) when you run into the issue.

Yes, it will have security updates

[Chalnoth]

Microsoft doesn't want Windows machines to cause the amount of malware and exploits on the web to explode far beyond current levels. They'll continue to get security updates for sure. But it does mean that if they call in to MS support, the agent won't help them without a valid key, and there may be some non-security Windows updates which will be restricted.

What Microsoft is warning people about is that hackers may have trojans, keyloggers, etc. built-in to the OS from the start. I don't know why this would be a danger with a "non-genuine" Windows 10 downloaded from MS, but that's been the danger with previous non-genuine versions of Windows.

Yeah, well...

[Smauler]

I'm still waiting on my free upgrade from Vista.

However, I'm one of the few who liked Vista, and still run it (on the system I bought it with, a core 2 duo E6850, XFX 650i motherboard, and a brand new (old) gtx 470 graphics card I got off ebay for £29).

Re:Yeah, well...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're going to be waiting forever, because if you read the fine print on the free upgrade from Vista, it expired in 2010.

Re:Yeah, well...

[Brad1138]

Just install 7 with the loader, you'll be solid till EOL

Yeah, that'll stop it

[Anonymous Coward]

If you sell software and it ISN'T being pirated, you have a problem.

Re:Yeah, that'll stop it

[bobbied]

Or really good copy protection and a small customer base who doesn't mind paying you.

Re:Yeah, that'll stop it

[Opportunist]

The best copy protection, in my experience, is a complex program and good customer support.

Re:Yeah, that'll stop it

[causality]

The best copy protection, in my experience, is a complex program and good customer support.

The obsessive control freaks who run major corporations will never be satisfied with this approach.

No Support?

[thebes]

Who actually calls Microsoft for support? They should scrap Retail, OEM, System builder, etc. and just have With Support $X, Without Support $Y.

Re:No Support?

[John.Banister]

In the past, people who write software that runs under Windows have told me that buying another copy to use the support is the cheapest way to get someone to answer questions about "black box" aspects of the operating system that are making it difficult for their software to run properly.

Re:No Support?

[thebes]

So then they buy a retail copy to get support. I'm not saying it is completely useless, just useless to someone who has been using Windows long enough or is comfortable with computers in general.

Re:No Support?

[hermitdev]

I have, about a year ago. My Surface Pro 2, on wake from sleep, wouldn't allow me to enter credentials, it would just sit at the login screen. The attached keyboard wouldn't allow input, and the on-screen touch keyboard wouldn't show up. Only work around was a hard reboot. Turns out the Surface didn't really like being put to sleep while using a full-screen game, such as Civ 5. Never did get an official resolution to the issue, but I haven't had the problem as of late (maybe quietly fixed somewhere along the way).

For enterprise support, the few times I've had to reach out, they've been very helpful and responsive. Granted, the company I was working for was paying for that support (and no, I have no idea of the financial terms of the contract).

Re:No Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's like asking "who calls Redhat for support"? An incredibly ignorant brain came up with this. I have called both several times, and they happen to be very good.
Contrast this with what you get with HP support or the torture of almost any linux forum and you will realize that most consumers are bottom feeders.
If you can't afford a copy of windows you deserve to live in your self imposed world of shit.

Re:No Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know for a while win7 had the same issue. That one turned out to be power management was "selectively" disabling usb devices... it neglected to leave the keyboard on... so when it went to sleep... space would never wake it up. Quite often a soft ACPI reset would do the trick. One tap on the power button and the keyboard would wake.

Re:No Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

just useless to someone who has been using Windows long enough or is comfortable with computers in general.

Such a person is not voluntarily running Windows. They might HAVE TO run it, but they aren't doing so by choice.

If you have only used Windows, then you know Windows. If you have used multiple different operating systems, then you know computers. Anyone in this position tends to find Windows tedious and irritating, a high-maintainence system that keeps getting in the way. Once you understand it, *nix will Just Work. On *nix, if something broke, it broke for a very good reason - it'll stay broken until you fix it, no magical "reboot fixes" - when you fix it, it will be because you got useful information on why it broke and have used that info to address the actual problem, unhindered by the system assuming you're a moron - and then it'll stay fixed.

Windows also just loves to periodically cause focus-stealing balloons to pop up and alert you to this-and-that issue, interrupting your workflow. These are invariably things a good *nix system either doesn't need at all (package manager == not having to deal with a dozen apps all reminding you to update), or takes care of in the background.

The single biggest reason for the huge install base of Windows: most users don't know anything else. That's all. End of fascination. It's definitely improved and come a very long way since the Win9X days back when I learned Linux in the first place, yes, but it's still ... Windows. Its featureset and stability have improved but the basic assumptions inherent in its design remain the same. The key assumption is: you're a moron and can't be trusted to understand what's going on, and even the most basic automation is too advanced for you (PowerShell is a tiny baby step compared to how well shells like Bash or Csh are integrated into *nix).

Re:No Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... they didn't help much with a serious customer problem/bug in the OS. ...but they will sit there for hours with you so long as you pay by the minute on a company account.

Uhuh. Definitely a big loss not being able to call them.

Re:No Support?

[Richard_at_work]

Don't worry, that issue is still out there - have it myself at least once a month.

Do you get the issue where the screen registers a continuous finger press on it? The only way to clear that one is to reboot the device too :/

Re:No Support?

[Anonymous Coward]

I called Microsoft support twice. Once due to licensing problems, and once due to technical issues with their scm software. In the first case I got to speak with some Indian fellow (Still do not know what he tried to say), and in the latter they offered to open a case for $1000 (We opted to drop the software entirely).

If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[msobkow]

If it's free, I'll upgrade my laptop from Win 7 to Win 10. But if it's a subscription model as rumoured, I'll stick with 7.

I'll also have to look into whether it supports the database software I bought the Windows laptop to run. Upgrading is a non-starter if Oracle, Sybase/SAP ASE, and DB/2 LUW won't run on it.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[roc97007]

> If it's free, I'll upgrade my laptop from Win 7 to Win 10. But if it's a subscription model as rumoured, I'll stick with 7

Same here. Same reason I'm sticking with older versions of Adobe products. (They've migrated to a subscription model.)

Of course, over the long term, I'm assuming that there will be a different product I can migrate to in the future.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[Smauler]

What's wrong with Windows 7 that makes you want to upgrade?

I'm still running Vista, with (mostly) the same hardware I bought this system with literally 10 years ago. Directx11, stability measured by power cuts, simple to run.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[Smauler]

Make that 8 years ago.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[bobbied]

You bought a Windows LAPTOP to run database software???? Please tell me this is for a portable development and test environment and not for actually doing something?

Also, why bother with the big named SQL database offerings on a laptop? It's got to be insanely expensive to have all three of those licensed for all your cores on a laptop. Why not just use a cheaper stand in like MySQL or something that's free? Unless of course you are just doing development work and your production environment requires all these vendors.... In which case, you need to be working on getting rid of one or two of these products...

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[hermitdev]

The main reason I currently run Win8.1 is for Hyper-V. Unlike its predecessor Virtual PC, it actually supports Linux guest VMs, and it also does it well. Probably the only missing feature is the ability to share folders between host & guest. It works so much more smoothly than VirtualBox. Little things like being able to use an active ftp connection from a VM, rather than forcing passive mode (yes, people still use FTP in 2015) or have the VM suspend/resume when the host is rebooted automatically is awesome (especially when you leave your laptop at work on the weekend updates are applied).

Granted, the Win8.1 UI generally sucks - too much crap I don't care about forced into the main start menu by default - but it only takes about 10 mins to clean that up and get stuff I actually use pinned to the start menu or task bar. My 90% most commonly used apps are just pinned to the task bar - Visual Studio, Outlook, IntelliJ, MTPuTTY, etc, so I rarely even see the Win8.1 start menu. IE & the Windows Store are the very first things removed/unpinned.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[msobkow]

It was the cheapest i7 option out there, and gave me portability for when I want it. It's not like I'm running servers -- I just need to be able to check script syntax by *creating* the database instances. Performance is a non-issue.

Besides, if a single user can swamp a database even on a laptop, then the database isn't worth developing for. Don't forget -- even laptop hardware is nearly 1000 times as powerful as "servers" were when these products first came out.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[msobkow]

Nothing is "wrong" with it -- I just don't want to end up being a die-hard "next generation XP user" who is stuck on an obsolete version of the OS. If I can get on the newest edition for free, why not? At least that way the updates will keep coming for more than another year or two -- and most of my hardware is kept running for a decade before it gets replaced.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[msobkow]

Ever hear of "developer editions"?

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[hermitdev]

This isn't year 2000 anymore. Most of the commercial database vendors have "developer editions" available for free. There's usually a bunch of restrictions such as total database size, number of concurrent connections (usually 1) or local access only. Microsoft has made a pared-down SQL Server available for free under monikers such as "Compact Edition", "Express Edition" and (I think?) "Embedded Edition". Currently, with SQL Server 2014, it's Express Edition and a size limit of 10 GB per database. I don't see a connection limit specified, just a compute restriction of "the lesser of 1 socket or 4 cores". I've seen some Windows games utilize this engine to store game assets.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[dave420]

Are these rumours founded, or just the usual baseless conjecture we see before a major Windows launch? Serious question :)

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[WuphonsReach]

What's wrong with Windows 7 that makes you want to upgrade?

Nothing, other then the problem that it will stop getting updates within the next few years. So if you want to continue to receive security updates, you have to move to Win10.

Which, fortunately for Microsoft, is getting good press and good reception unlike Win8.

Re: If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[jmac_the_man]

Microsoft has outright said that "free for a year" means "you have one year to redeem the offer. If you redeem it, it's a full copy, not a subscription." The subscription stuff was just dopey clickbait by a couple of disreputable sites.

Re:If it's free, I'll bite the bullet

[bobbied]

Yes, but this guy/gal claims to have *purchased* software and development stuff is usually free, or part of a development kit that you buy as part of your support agreements. Licensing costs are not an issue...

So let me get this straight...

[painandgreed]

Microsoft is going to allow people with pirated copies of Windows to upgrade by essentially giving away pirated copies of Windows 10? They should just get it over with and give away a "play for free" version of Windows.

Re: So let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah they give it away for free. It won't work until you subscribe anyways. Like AOL sending floppy discs everywhere. If it gets subscribers, it's worth it!

Re:So let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft claims they will supply a "... version of Windows 10 for small devices that will be free for Makers and commercial device builders..."
see: https://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/03/18/windows-10-iot-powering-the-internet-of-things/

new favorite phrase

[roc97007]

"Upgrades for Pirates" is this week's winner for new favorite phrase.

pirating does pay off

[koan]

lol

No support anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't even provide individual support for the official version, so this policy won't be a setback to pirates in the slightest. Just try to get them to fix a bug or design flaw you're having with the OS -- unless you're some privileged company with a backdoor into Microsoft, good luck with that!

They abuse the word "genuine."

[Anonymous Coward]

If the software is actually a copy of Windows 10, then it is "genuine" by the definition of the word. If it was a linux distro with a windowing front end that made it look like Windows 10, THEN it would be non-genuine.

Calling "unlicensed" "ungenuine" is a conscious abuse of language intended to instill fear where there is no need for it. Which, of course, suits Microsoft just fine.

So?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing as some of Micro$oft's updates brick, break, or just leave holes open in the OS I'm not sure where the benefit from getting their updates is. Hell the pirated copy says "Not Genuine" and Auto Update is disabled, where is the downside? The system works, and will continue to unless the actual user breaks something or does something stupid. I have paid for my license, and had an update mess with the system and their line about leaving me vulnerable to exposure is total B.S. They leave "unknown" vulnerabilities open till they are told publicly and the user base starts questioning it. Ask Cortana where all your personal information is going to go.

chromebox will soon replace home windows PC's

[leftistconservative]

I got one for 170 bucks, 4 gig ram. Works better than any windows PC I ever had. Buh Bye, Windows!

Unsupported - Just like regular windows

[Anonymous Coward]

So it's really just like regular windows, more or less unsupported, and the users running the software that comes "Without warranty, or fitness for a particular purpose, and containing KNOWN DEFECTS", expect some people are paying for it.

Ummm...

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

"Unsupported"? As in "Just like pretty much any version that isn't Professional or Enterprise with a sufficiently large yearly spend by your organization that we'll actually have an engineer take your phone calls"?

This isn't exclusive to Microsoft; but it certainly includes them: Except in the occasional case of some indie hero/martyr; or heroically expensive software priced like it includes hours of a technical expert's time because it in fact does, software isn't really 'supported'. If you are reasonably lucky and persistent, an issue with some mass market shrinkwrap software might get examined, because of the risk that it will affect enough other customers; but you didn't pay enough(and your bug report probably wasn't informative enough) to be worth the trouble alone. On the other side of the coin, the guy who paid nothing certainly didn't pay enough, and his cracked copy probably isn't treated as representative; but he'll get as patched as you do, in the end.

Software support is hardly valueless(indeed, some companies sell little else, either because their product is FOSS or because it's some ERP-stem-cell-line capable of anything but fit for nothing without months or years of customization); but it is something that you can live with only indirect access to(if the Dell XYZ runs Win10 so that they can sell it to corporate customers with Software Assurance that probably means the drivers will work just fine for me, and if they don't enough of the real customers will run into similar issues that it might get fixed); and it is something that you already almost entirely don't get for your $60 game or $100 OS.

If 'unsupported' is the only defect of the pirate version; that effectively means that home and small business SKUs are now priced at $0.

Re:Ummm...

[AK Marc]

Everything they have that's home-oriented is unsupported. What do you get with a full-retail license purchase? One call, but only so long as it's within 90 days?

The enterprise market is unaffected. They mostly are on subscription contracts with free upgrades anyway.

What's the difference?

[Opportunist]

Does that mean I can't get on MSDN to get an answer to my question that doesn't answer the question?

But seriously, what does "unsupported" mean for MS? No updates? In other words, even more unpatched, insecure spamchuggers? I doubt that's going to affect any of those that are already, we just might get a few more of these.

Thank you Microsoft. No, I mean it! As long as you exist, I'll have perfect job security.

It's a good time to be in IT security.

Re:What's the difference?

[Anonymous Coward]

Does that mean I can't get on MSDN to get an answer to my question that doesn't answer the question?

But seriously, what does "unsupported" mean for MS? No updates? In other words, even more unpatched, insecure spamchuggers? I doubt that's going to affect any of those that are already, we just might get a few more of these.

Thank you Microsoft. No, I mean it! As long as you exist, I'll have perfect job security.

It's a good time to be in IT security.

Have you tried rebooting it? Have you applied all updates? Please to be posting the results of your most recent virus scan.

Sincerely,
ANONYMOUS COW HARD,
MVP, A++ MCSE,
Like or +1 or Follow me on Facebook AND DONT FORGET TO UPVOTE THIS if my answer has helped to your problem solving.

Re:What's the difference?

[Anonymous Coward]

What is the needful to do? I am having one dobut about the same.

Re:What's the difference?

[dave420]

"Unsupported" means you can't call/email Microsoft to get help. That's it. They're going to provide updates, of course, as that's in their best interests.

Quantum physics at its best

[hcs_$reboot]

Two exact opposite versions of a single event
microsoft-offers-pirates-amnesty-and-free-windows-10-upgrades
microsoft-says-free-windows-10-upgrades-for-pirates-will-be-unsupported

Not a genuine advantage

[aNonnyMouseCowered]

"the agent won't help them without a valid key"

Not a genuine advantage with 99% of users (pirates included) outside the US (figure pulled off my behind). When was the last time you called tech support for support and not visit some online forum or your local tech guru.

The real issue: will the software police break down your door if you get reported using a legally upgraded "pirate" version? Can you just say, but the kind folks at Redmond say I get a pass, my sins have been forgiven?

Re:Not a genuine advantage

[Xest]

No, that's just paranoia. If you haven't been paying attention Microsoft spend a LOT of money on dealing with malware and so forth, they help the authorities take down bot nets and have a genuine commercial interest in stopping the spread of malware.

This is just another step in that quest, all they're doing is saying "Download your unlicensed copy of Windows from us, rather than some dodgy site where it's riddled with malware from the outset".

They've figured out that giving people a clean copy rather than a virus laden copy is cheaper for them than it is to deal with constantly having to spend a fortune dealing with DDOS attacks and spam hitting Outlook.com and that sort of thing.

There's nothing sinister here, it's just way easier and cheaper for them to offer an official Windows 10 download, that it is to have people download it anyway, but riddled with malware that feeds into botnets that cost them money.

They're not giving you a license key, they're not luring you into a trap, they're not tricking you, they're just giving you a clean download that saves them money with the added benefit that it means people might convert to buying the odd copy here and there with less risk of people leaving for other OS' like Linux. It just makes good business sense, there's nothing more to it than that.

It's not like the police even entertain breaking down doors for civil piracy cases anyway, it's not their job, it's not their jurisdiction, and it's not something they get involved in so it's nonsense either way. The worst they could do is haul you into a civil court where they'd then have to a) prove to the judge that you are individually and uniquely tied to the IP address and that no one else could ever have used that connection and b) explain to the judge how you've cost them money when they were the ones that offered the download in the first place. So even if your conspiracy theory did have any merit, they wouldn't have a leg to stand on anyway - it would be the very definition of civil entrapment offering a product download without any payment requirement and then trying to sue people over it to extra payment for it afterwards. That's an entirely illegal practice in itself stemming from an old scam where people used to ship items to people entirely unsolicited, and then sending a demand for payment or even filing a debt claim against them for the cost of the product if the person who received it never sent it back. Nowadays if you receive a wholly unsolicited parcel you're entirely within your rights to keep it with no real recourse for the company who sent it- the same is true here, Microsoft can't demand payment after they offered the download for free.

Oh dear.

[Anonymous Coward]

Where it's been possible to test, closed source code has more bugs than open source code.

Meanwhile, open source means you can FIND those bugs, even without it being exploited, whereas you generally have to wait until it's been exploited to find it in closed source applications. Therefore your count is incorrect. Secondly, Linux includes a shitload more applications than Windows OS does, therefore your count is including things like Java and Addobe vulns as Linux ones, where they don't get counted, yet still exist, for Windows.

Oh, and way to manage to get the obscurity thing wrong, dude.

Re:Oh dear.

[Anonymous Coward]

"open source means you can FIND those bugs" This type of statement is getting tiresome. The low hanging fruit is gone. You can stare at the code all you want but I seriously doubt you could find all the potential security risks.

Re:Oh dear.

[epyT-R]

It's a lot easier than troweling through binaries with ida pro. Otherwise we have only microsoft's word on the number reported.

Re:Oh dear.

[hairyfeet]

You are arguing a classic "is ought" fallacy, because the code IS there somebody OUGHT to have done the audit but we have 100% undeniable proof this is bullshit...Shellshock. if the Bash shell, the oldest and therefor by that argument most looked at code on the planet can have a major exploit for THAT long? Then your entire argument just falls apart.

Re:Oh dear.

[CastrTroy]

Where it's been possible to test, closed source code has more bugs than open source code.

I think that you're always going to find this to be the case. For the simple fact that open source programmers are better programmers. Open source programmers either do it by choice in their free time, or are paid to do it by companies who feel that it's worth it to invest back into the community.

The Venn diagram for companies that employ bad programmers and companies that want to contribute back to the community looks like a pair of glasses. Or, to put it another way, the Venn diagram for companies that employ good programmers and the companies that want to give back to the community looks much like a donut.

That isn't to say that close source software can't be good. Microsoft's been doing a lot to improve their software in recent years. Many people don't agree with their UI changes (Windows 8 is terrible if you don't have a touch screen, and I can't stand the ribbon UI), but I don't think there's been any huge problems with stability in recent years. They've even been releasing quite a bit of stuff as open source, and are even in the process of open sourcing the .Net runtime. I think they're making some really good decisions in the past few years.

Re:Oh dear.

[hairyfeet]

Again arguing an "is ought" fallacy, because the code IS there somebody OUGHT to have done an audit but the vast majority 1.- Wouldn't know an exploit if it was flipping them the bird, and 2.- those with both the skills AND the experience? Are too busy with their own jobs to spend endless hours looking through your code.

And again we have 100% undeniable proof that "many eyes" is complete and utter bullshit, Shellshock and Heartbleed. There you have two of the oldest (and if many eyes worked the most vetted) pieces of code in Linux and it has had major exploits FOR YEARS.

I'm sorry but "open source equals safer code" is nothing more now than religious dogma, its Adam riding a dinosaur levels of fantasy.

Re:Oh dear.

[Parker Lewis]

I think you're wrong to suppose that an open source product will be bug free. What an open source software will provide is a high chance that bugs will be discovered soonner and in high number than the closed ones (as you'll have less people watching the code and most important, with less passion).

Re:Oh dear.

[Aighearach]

You're inventing the "is ought" fallacy, they're not using it. None of the people you're accusing of that fallacy actually said what you accuse them of saying.

They're just giving an opinion, they're not claiming to demonstrate logically that it is true. And their opinion isn't even that somebody must have checked just because they can and ought to have.

Your response is a Straw Man, based on just flat assuming that the "many eyes" theory, as you misunderstand it, is the source of the opinion. People are actually giving other reasons than that. In this case the person believes that OSS programmers are higher quality, based on the incentives for the different groups and who is attracted to those incentives. It is a good explanation of how the person feels about it, but it isn't a logical analysis for you to be trying to refute. You can't refute opinions.

Nobody is saying that OSS is perfect or without bugs, and your assumption that is what they mean, even when they didn't say it, is some sort of magical thinking. A weird upside-down magical thinking, where you accuse others of having religious-type motives, so that you can attack their religion-like views, except that the magical connection between cause and effect is supposed entirely by you, and not endorsed at all by your victim.

In this particular case, the person already gave their own counter-point at the end. It is clear you weren't trying to add to it. You didn't even disagree with any of the points actually raised.

Re:Oh dear.

[hairyfeet]

Again you are doing nothing but parroting an "is ought" fallacy with ZERO evidence to back up your claims. By your logic because the code IS sitting on a server somewhere it OUGHT to have been vetted by now but again your fallacy ignores that 1.- the people capable of spotting low level bugs in code are paid high dollar to work on THEIR code and NOT yours, and 2.- the few people that MIGHT look at the code will have no more ability to spot a bug than my dentist.

I'm sorry but your argument has NO merit because it presents NO facts while ignoring that Shellshock and Heartbleed are perfect counterarguments for your position.

Re:Oh dear.

[hairyfeet]

Nooo they are spreading dogma and bullshit with ZERO evidence to back it up, well by that logic Windows is perfect, never gets bugs, and if you do get something its PEBKAC...what? Its just an opinion so is just as valid as the BS you are spewing, yes?

And again you ignore the rotting elephant in the room that shoots deader than Dixie any chance for ":many eyes" to be anything other than Adam riding a dinosaur levels of dogma...Heartbleed and Shellshock. if the two oldest (and thus by "many eyes" argument, most looked at) pieces of code could have major vulnerabilities for THAT LONG? I'm sorry but your entire premise is shot to shit.

Ever hear "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"? Not only are you providing ZERO evidence but just like Adam riding a dino you are ignoring a wealth of evidence that directly contradicts you assertion. So without ANY kind of evidence you are just spewing total bullshit and if you wanna play that game I'm sure i can write a couple paragraphs on why Win2K is better than modern Linux, would you like me to recite it to you?

Re:Oh dear.

[drinkypoo]

Again arguing an "is ought" fallacy, because the code IS there somebody OUGHT to have done an audit

Nobody is arguing that but you. The argument is that because the code is open, we can see how many bugs are in it when we actually do look, and then someone writes an article that claims that this means that open source has more bugs. But it doesn't mean that, because we can't look at the closed source code, so we can't figure out how many bugs are actually in it, and therefore we can't make a comparison. That didn't stop you from shitting all over this thread with your accusations, though.

And again we have 100% undeniable proof that "many eyes" is complete and utter bullshit, Shellshock and Heartbleed

What you're missing is that these vulnerabilities actually were found and fixed rapidly, but we have no idea how many similar vulnerabilities lurk within closed source code, nor can the community rapidly whip up and distribute a fix. We tend to only know about vulnerabilities in closed source code after they have been exploited.

It's a fallacy to suggest that because open source and many eyes means that bugs may be found that they will be found. However, there's nothing fallacious about pointing out that this level of scrutiny is missing from commercial software, either. It is fallacious to claim that because some bugs don't get caught in this fashion, that there's no truth to the idea. You would have to show that no bugs get caught in this fashion before it would invalidate the idea out of hand, or you would have to show that the open development process introduces more bugs than are caught by it. So far, you have not even attempted to do either of these things, and so your argument is nonsensical at best.

Why would they do anything else?

[jjn1056]

And why are we surprised enough somehow this is new. People STEAL the software... They get no love from MS.

If you can't afford windows there's actually useful open source alternatives. Just use that. Why someone would steal software when you can go open source and be legit make snow sense to me....

Is the asinine "Home" flavoring preserved?

[Anomalyst]

Any windows "update" without providing domain membership & policies or RDP capabilities is worthless and will be (& has been) replaced with Linux. If your windows game wont at least run under wine, then I wont be purchasing it. WTP is filled with useless 'features' "Picture of the Day", "live" tiles, sports, weather, disabled/deleted where possible. Needs a pre-installed group policy/wizard to turn such bloat off.

Admiral Ackbar says "It's a trap!"

[mmell]

Not for me - my OEM copy is genuine. But think about it: d'ya really think that Microsoft will let an opportunity to gather that much data continue to get away from them? Host GUID's, MAC addresses, existing configs that M$ might find interesting . . .

And remember, the first hit from the crack pipe's free. If I read this right, they're saying "Amnesty today!", not "Amnesty forever!".

Re:Admiral Ackbar says "It's a trap!"

[dave420]

I was going to call you out on your paranoid nonsense, but then I noticed you spelled MS with a dollar sign! I've never seen that before, and it struck me that because of that, you must really understand Microsoft's intentions, business model and their plans for the future. You are a sage. You are providing invaluable information for the greater computing community. You, sir, are the saviour of the world.

Back in the real world: If you are worried about MS getting a hold of your host GUIDs, MAC addresses and so on, you shouldn't be using Windows anyway. Feigning outrage only serves to make you look like a moody, entitled princess.

Re:Admiral Ackbar says "It's a trap!"

[mmell]

What outrage? I started by stating that I wasn't worried about any of this - my copy of Windows is Genuine(c), provided by my OEM manufacturer (Gateway). I was merely pointing out that one should look twice at free goodies, and don't give me any of that "gift horse" schtick. I applaud M$'s decisions here, but I am fairly certain they're not acting from altruistic motives. Just sayin'.

I'm not a pirate

[rossdee]

But I will stick with Win 7 anyway.
I don't want a phone/tablet OS on my desktop

Re:I'm not a pirate

[Anonymous Coward]

This. Win7 works fine.

---ok, captcha says "worked". it's sentient, and it knows more stuff.

Re:I'm not a pirate

[iampiti]

So will I.
All I want from an OS is to work well and to stay out of the way. Windows 7 does just that. Windows 10 doesn't. I hate how they make it difficult to login with a non-Microsoft (local) account. I hate how they've integrated so many Microsoft services.
also, the fact that they're upgrading Windows 7 and 8 users for free speaks volumes about how desperate they're to get everyone in Win 10.

Non-genuine?

[UltraZelda64]

According to industry experts, use of pirated software, including Windows, results in a higher risk of malware, fraud — identity theft, credit card theft, etc. — public exposure of your personal information, and a higher risk for poor performance or feature malfunctions.

Corrected. The term "non-genuine" is not needed--it is superfluous. The sentence is correct with *any* version of Windows. All the damn thing is is a bunch of bits, doesn't matter if they come on a piece of plastic that Microsoft sold to some retailer or through a copyright-infringing file downloaded over the Internet. Either way it will eventually become infected by countless bits of invasive garbage for the vast majority of users. It's just that with Microsoft's version, at least it doesn't come pre-bundled with that junk. At least, by some definitions it doesn't. I would say that with the new Windows "apps" and their advertisements, the operating system comes with adware. And I doubt that many people would argue that various components of Windows have fit in the category of spyware for years now.

Non-genuine with M$ permission

[Anonymous Coward]

In the end, the non genuine will be LEGAL! regardless, it's been grey area but this move takes it out of that grey area with M$ permission to do so.
You can also install Windows 7, downloaded through official means(non-pirated) without a key that also updates during the time period that is allowed until it wants you to make it genuine.

This may change with windows 10, maybe it changed through Windows 8 already, I have no idea since I've been to legit to quit on 7.

Regardless, they said up to a year to update for free, I'll wait to about the end of that time to fly by being a beta tester.

Still never paying for Windows again

[drinkypoo]

Since Windows support is pure bullshit, it's not worth paying for.

Since there are no other Microsoft products worth paying for, I don't see where their revenues are going to come from.

Re:Still never paying for Windows again

[Anonymous Coward]

Since there are no other Microsoft products worth paying for

Excel alone is worth the price of admission for Office.

And since enterprises would get sued into oblivion for using "non-genuine" software, they pay through the nose for Windows, Office, SQL Server, Exchange, Sharepoint, etc. Don't fret over Microsoft's revenue stream.

Non-genuine? No problem.

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll just turn on the key stroke logger that was in the beta.

You've been called out (& you RAN, lol!)

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eat your words" Dave420 or prove me wrong http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (which you've failed TONS of times @ & you always ran from that completely FAIR challenge to you, just like the trolling weasel you clearly are...)

* Tell us: How do those words of yours taste flavored with the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat" & washed down with your foot in your mouth ramming them down your throat? R O T F L M A O...

APK

P.S.=> You called me ALL KINDS of names: Well, since you're technically incompetent & the above link will just prove it again? Live up to a fair challenge put to you (of course, a TROLL WEASEL like yourself never has, or will - & as usual, I win - getting to make a FOOL out of you publicly, yet again also, "bonus"... lol!)... apk

What's it taste like "eating your words"? LOL!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eat your words" Dave420 or prove me wrong http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (which you've failed TONS of times @ & you always ran from that completely FAIR challenge to you, just like the trolling weasel you clearly are...)

* Tell us: How do those words of yours taste flavored with the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat" & washed down with your foot in your mouth ramming them down your throat? R O T F L M A O...

APK

P.S.=> You called me ALL KINDS of names: Well, since you're technically incompetent & the above link will just prove it again? Live up to a fair challenge put to you (of course, a TROLL WEASEL like yourself never has, or will - & as usual, I win - getting to make a FOOL out of you publicly, yet again also, "bonus"... lol!)... apk

What's it taste like "eating your words"? LOL!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Eat your words" Dave420 or prove me wrong http://slashdot.org/comments.p... (which you've failed TONS of times @ & you always ran from that completely FAIR challenge to you, just like the trolling weasel you clearly are...)

* Tell us: How do those words of yours taste flavored with the "bitter taste of SELF-defeat" & washed down with your foot in your mouth ramming them down your throat? R O T F L M A O...

APK

P.S.=> You called me ALL KINDS of names: Well, since you're technically incompetent & the above link will just prove it again? Live up to a fair challenge put to you (of course, a TROLL WEASEL like yourself never has, or will - & as usual, I win - getting to make a FOOL out of you publicly, yet again also, "bonus"... lol!)... apk

Not published?

[Narcogen]

"'Non-genuine Windows is not published by Microsoft."

What the heck does that even mean? A bit identical copy of Windows that is not accompanied by a legitimate license is suddenly not published by Microsoft? Who is it published by? No one?

It's not polite to talk w/ your mouth full

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Your mouth's full of your words you're eating http://slashdot.org/comments.p... after you were fairly called out and RAN. You *really* need to change your diet Dave420! Eating your words != GOOD NUTRITION!

Tell us, how does eating your words taste, flavored with the bitter taste of SELF-defeat, rammed down your throat since your foot's in your mouth?

(Amazing you can still talk your gibberish bullshit, actually, considering your mouth's full, as you "eat your words" (lmao))

First one's free

[Anonymous Coward]

"First one's free..."

This is not a silly, or unexplainable move. It's quite common in many situations to get a person hooked on something, and then charge them for more down the road. Heck, most antivirus companies started out as shareware companies. If Microsoft hadn't had millions of "free" users for years, they would never have achieved market dominance. This move is right in line with their goal of charging monthly fees for future Windows. and future MSO.

Re:First one's free

[Aighearach]

Historically, MS achieved market dominance by other means, and before there was widespread copying-with-a-license.

And the period when unlicensed copies were increasing the most also lines up with Apple's renewed market share, and with open source offerings being widely known about.

It may or may not be true that the unlicensed windows installs prevented people in various countries with low cost of living from switching to OSS. It makes sense that it would be true. But it is guaranteed to have taken place well after the peak of MS market share, and isn't available as a potential cause of said market share.

It's not polite to talk w/ your mouth full

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mouth's full of your words you're eating http://slashdot.org/comments.p... after you were fairly called out and RAN. You *really* need to change your diet Dave420! Eating your words != GOOD NUTRITION!

Tell us, how does eating your words taste flavored with the bitter taste of SELF-defeat rammed down your throat since your foot's in your mouth?

Above all else: Get some manners, Dave420 - it's NOT POLITE to talk w/ your mouth full (lmao) of those words of yours you're eating, hahahaha.

(Amazing you can still talk your gibberish bullshit, actually, considering your mouth's full as you "eat your words" (lmao))

It's not polite to talk w/ your mouth full

[Anonymous Coward]

Your mouth's full of your words you're eating http://slashdot.org/comments.p... after you were fairly called out and RAN. You *really* need to change your diet Dave420! Eating your words != GOOD NUTRITION!

Tell us, how does eating your words taste flavored with the bitter taste of SELF-defeat rammed down your throat since your foot's in your mouth?

Above all else: Get some manners, Dave420 - it's NOT POLITE to talk w/ your mouth full (lmao) of those words of yours you're eating, hahahaha.

(Amazing you can still talk your gibberish bullshit, actually, considering your mouth's full as you "eat your words" (lmao))

Google-fu?

[daveywest]

I plan to support it using the same method I use for any tech products these days.

Laptops

[tepples]

There are other reasons though, better hardware if I assemble the box myself

Has it become common to assemble a laptop yourself since I last checked?

Re:Laptops

[khellendros1984]

Common? No. Possible? Well....maybe, if the planets align properly and you buy some clunky Clevo case?

Pirated version not supported?

[Anonymous Coward]

How is this different than the non-pirated version?

Al, please go get some help.

[mmell]

Seriously, you come across like a Scientologist attacking heretics who've left the "Church".

Say - you're not Thetan, are you?

I will say this, Al.

[mmell]

You can always be counted upon to provide comic relief. Is that really what you want to be for the rest of your life? An insignificant little troll whose only pleasure comes from behaving badly, is that what you want the world to remember of you?

Please go seek out professional help. A psychiatrist, a psychologist, a minister, a friend . . . anyone. At the rate you're going, you'll end up doing the mandatory Thorazine Shuffle out at the Laughing Academy before too much longer.

Chessbox 960

[tepples]

Not everybody cares about "community mods." [...] I play chess

Then let me try a chess analogy. The forced-vanilla environment of the consoles is like not being able to agree with your opponent to randomize the starting position or use experimental pieces.

Tetris is already a thing, and runs fine anywhere.

Recent court rulings have threatened that.