Slashdot Mirror
A Software Project Full of "Male Anatomy" Jokes Causes Controversy
An anonymous reader writes with the story of a Github user's joke repository that is causing some controversy. "There's no question that the tech world is an overwhelmingly male place. There's legit concern that tech is run-amok with 'brogrammers' that make women programmers feel unwelcome. On the other hand, people just want to laugh. It's at that intersection that programmer Randy Hunt, aka 'letsgetrandy' posted a 'project' earlier this week to software hosting site GitHub called 'DICSS.' The project, which is actual free and open source software, is surrounded by geeky jokes about the male anatomy. And it's gone nuts, so to speak, becoming the most trending project on Github, and the subject of a lot of chatter on Twitter. And, Hunt tells us, the folks at Github are scratching their heads wondering what they should do about it. Some people love DICSS ... and some people are, understandably, offended. The offended people point out that this is exactly the sort of thing that makes tech unwelcoming to women, and not just because of the original project, but because of some of the comments (posted as "commits") that might take the joke too far."
Actually find the male anatomy to be hilarious...
Since when is it the task of others to make one feel comfortable? Do alcohol jokes make recovering alcoholics uncomfortable? Do displays of wealth make the poor feel uncomfortable? Do candy aisles in supermarkets make dieters uncomfortable? Do dogs make victims of dog-attacks uncomfortable?
Why do women constantly get to claim they feel uncomfortable and expect the world to rush in and see to it that reality meets with their expectations?
She keeps wanting me to write a new operating system called PENIX.
It's not so much a brogrammer thing as a controversy between us low brow folks and snooty people who pretend that our dick jokes and fart jokes aren't hilarious.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
I feel like that it is borderline in this case, it is not a commercial product but an open source project, you may not agree but shouldn't they be able to run their own project how they want ?
Does this infringe some kind of law in the US ?
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
Should github be involved? We could ramp it up and pretend the project was actually hateful, instead of not being that at all. When should github care? If they are an open source repo, shouldn't they be that?
Here's an emulator for Nintendo hardware. It's safe on legal grounds (even though console companies have lawyered up and taken down some emus by threatening the authors):
https://github.com/dolphin-emu
Here's an archive of "hacking tools". While almost everyone reading this post will understand the context of "hacking", and the fact that these are completely innocuous, would you put that past everyone in the world?
https://github.com/Gexos/Hacki...
Remember, some people consider "hacking" to equal "a crime done to people that should be result in life in prison". Even among those that are a bit smarter than that, you could EASILY argue that labeling something a "hacking tool" is "encouraging people to commit a crime" or somesuch- there's a reason the crack pipes at the flea market are not labelled as such, and have a sign saying that if you call them that, they'll kick you out.
You could argue that the above two projects, along with MANY others, are offensive or encourage illegal activities. You may not agree, but the argument could be made.
If someone is concerned about some cock and balls jokes because some section of the population (certainly not "women" and not really even "feminists", but likely "people who professionally get offended about bullshit to honk their own horns"), I will point out that **there's already a ton of projects that would offend fucking SOMEONE**.
This shouldn't be a story at all.
People who are offended by the project can just ignore it. Don't use it if/when it becomes a finished product, either. You're free to boycott, after all. You are even free to ask other people to boycott the project. You are NOT free to try to bully these juvenile delinquents into bahaving as you believe they should behave.
Hey, ladies and germs - you can't have it both ways. Just because you are offended doesn't justify cyber bullying, or any other kind of bullying.
In short, just grow the fuck up, alright?
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
http://theshake.com.au/wp-cont...
People need to lighten the hell up.
Yes, we should make women welcome in FOSS. That doesn't mean we can't enjoy a good laugh at the same time. We all need to stop with this BS #activistmorality
Get your PostgreSQL here: http://www.commandprompt.com/
Taking offense has become a powerful political tool.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
A little dirty humor "is controversial" in the United States and probably would be in, say, Iran. But there are cultures that consider talking about sex totally harmless. I know that's a foreign idea in a country where you can lose your job or, conceivably, end up in court or even prison for making a harmless joke at the wrong time or in front of the wrong person. Cultures that aren't so uptight are superior to ours.
is it really news that a subset of people hate men and wish to eradicate gender? the more airtime these people get, the more they get to push their agenda and market themselves. so you hate the penis and have no sense of humour, great. stop complaining and go get some therapy.
The problem with slashdot is that most of its users were bullied and stuffed into lockers as kids!
For the record, I'm a man who works in IT. I don't know enough about this project to take a stand one way or the other, but I do know that crap like this is why the IT profession (if you can call it that) struggles for respect. I see this sort of stuff all the time, and it's frustrating because I really thought we were beyond the stereotype of "asexual nerds living with Mom in the basement." Not everyone in IT has a juvenile sense of humor, but oh boy, those who do can sometimes make workplaces pretty uncomfortable. And no, I'm not easily offended, but it's not exactly the most professional interaction when you have to listen to someone talk about their adventures at the strip club in detail. Not the content so much, but usually it's because the people saying these things just make you think, "eww, gross." If I was a woman, I would sure select myself out of an environment like that.
For everyone who is going to respond to this in a "Fuck you, I can say and do whatever I want" fashion, can you please explain why it is so difficult to refrain from inappropriate jokes in an office environment? Does anyone in a work situation really need to hear about what you'd like to do with the hot new intern, etc.? I've worked both in "normal" office environments, and environments where behavior like this is tolerated or encouraged. Normal workplaces are a lot better in my opinion.
Same thing goes for overt sexual harassment -- I often wonder why we need to watch HR's presentation over and over again on this subject, then I see real issues in the news that I just can't believe. I wouldn't even think about saying/doing some of the stuff some guys are accused of, and it just amazes me that this goes in in 2015. I know there are a few people who develop a "rockstar" aura and can be untouchable in the eyes of management, but it would seem to me that unless you are the sole author of a company's core money making product, or an executive, you can't get away with this stuff anymore.
Remind me again what "wellHungLo" was supposed to represent?
I wouldn't consider someone who wrote code like that a "superstar". He sounds more like a cowboy coder who couldn't give a shit about code maintenance after he moved on to something else. I would have complained about his shitty naming and if management was too scared to fix such a massive fuckup then you're better off working elsewhere.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/10/21/357629765/when-women-stopped-coding
I'd encourage you to listen to the story as well.
Or, maybe you could just be a little bit professional and don't use software projects to make jokes about anyone's anatomy.
I know, I know. If you were a little bit professional, you'd be getting paid for your work instead of contributing to some projects with other latent homosexuals who seem obsessed with penises. But still, a little bit of self-respect is a good thing, even if you don't happen to have any respect for anyone else. It looks good on your resume when you're not a complete asshole.
You are welcome on my lawn.
This is a hard topic which should be discussed at length!
and appropriate social behavior. You don't have a right to be a douche nozzle anywhere you want. Whoops, just did it myself there, didn't I? See how easy it is? Then again, it's about your forum and understanding your audience. On /. the phase douche nozzle is highly appropriate. On the forum of a popular open source project, or even my favorite retro gaming podcast's site? Not so much.
The trouble is, there are a _lot_ of folks who never learned tact, and blurt out whatever the hell enters their mind when ever it does; often just to get attention of any kind (good or bad).
So yeah, the world doesn't need to rush to meet their expectations, but a certain amount of civility at certain times/places is definitely called for.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Should we have a vagina joke project too?
A software project, absolutely not. But a Broadway show would be OK.
There is no right to create a hostile working environment for women.
A 'random' github repository isn't a hostile working environment. For that matter, why do we automatically assume that sexual jokes are 'hostile' towards women? Even when they're for anatomy that women typically don't have?
Why do we assume that women don't have a sense of humor and men aren't offended, apparently, by anything?
Many of the women I've worked with are just fine with a certain amount of humor. Dick jokes all day would get boring quickly, but if you have a 'joke of the day' board that pulls from a list of jokes that include everything from 'why'd the chicken cross the road' to 'your mama' to George Carlin thoughts, to 'How NOT to get your ass beat by the police', and containing about 1% jokes that can be considered sexual, is 3-4 sexual jokes a year creating a hostile environment? Or perhaps I should say, would preventing those 3-4 jokes a year going to create a more hostile environment?
As for your frat house arms race - yeah, that's going overboard, ala my 'dick jokes all day' example. Extremism is bad, everything in moderation(including moderation).
I don't read AC A human right
There is no right to create a hostile working environment for women.
I remember a workplace turned into a nightmare for men - at least the normal guys. The guys everyone knew harassed women? not a change.
After being told that "Whatever a woman considers Sexual Harassment is sexual harassment turned the workplace into one where men avoided women at all costs, had witnesses to protect themselves, and made the US-Russia cold war look like a honeymoon, What manner of workplace was that?
All came to a head one day, when HR came down to tell a machinist he had to remove the photo of a cheerleader he posted on his toolbox. Apparently it was offensive to some women.
He refused. Was that sexually objectifying women, and therefore offensive?
It was his daughter, who was a cherleader in high school.
Now as apocryphal as that sounds, it did happen. And a not too long later, they made the harassment guidlelines much more realistic. Apparently most of the women really hated them as well. THey had interesting commentary on the women who were originally in charge of the program, one that you might think only evil men would make. But even that is telling.
This is why blanket statements as "creating a hostile work environment for women" is so broad as to be unworkable. Two of my friends at work were the dirtiest minded, crude sexual innuendo joke telling women I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. Both found the draconian regulations very very uncomfortable. And if you thik that seeing a acronym makes for a hostile work environment, try working in a place where everone is scared shitless of you, finding you the equivalent of a hand grenade with the pin already pulled.
So what you are really saying is that we should not be allowed to make the workplace hostile to women who are offended by any mention of sex. It's really catering to the thinnist skinned individuals when you make acronyms illegal. There is a fundamental problem of catering to the lowest denominator.
I wonder if we should make the workplace less hostile to Muslim men who are offended by seeing women not in Burkhas? Are they not just as offended and is it not about sex?
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Or, maybe you could just be a little bit professional and don't use software projects to make jokes about anyone's anatomy.
Not all software projects are professional ones. There are projects "just for fun", as well. I think that's where this project lies.
Nobody should use it as-is for a professional project.
If you want to do that, then fork it first and clean out the inappropriate comments.
There is no right to create a hostile working environment for women.
Someone's personal non-employer-owned git repo on the internet is not a working environment.
It's only a working environment if you pull the code into a professional software development project and then incrorporate the inappropriate comments into a codebase where both yourself and coworkers or employers have access to it as part of the working arrangement.
What you want is an environment that is hostile to men. Offended by this project? WTF are you doing nosing around the project? Offended by strippers? WTF are you doing nosing around strip clubs and the like? Offended by foul language? Why are you listening? Offended by... well, you get the idea. You don't like something, don't pay money for it, don't support it, don't publicize it, don't bother with it, etc. Find something you DO support and do something you find to be positive. Otherwise, yes, you're going to be offended, and it's your own stupid fault.
Until someone messes with your wallet, your person, your reputation, your family in like manner, or your property, your right to exert control ends on property you have control of (which usually means you own or rent it.) Other than that, you can say anything you want, anywhere you want but on property others rent or own where you are not, and should not be, in control, and sane people will roundly ignore you.
Because there truly is not, and should not be, any right "not to be offended." Pull up your big girl panties and buck the heck up. The world is not made of sugar and spice, and every effort you undertake to make it so is a Very Bad Idea.
Push your controlling ideas too far, and someone will eventually push back. Odds are you really won't enjoy it.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
Not only is it funny (with overtones of pitiful), it gets a rise out just about everyone who cares to erect an objection. Rigid, upright individuals, blood flowing copiously to their heads, cocking their virtual pistols and ready to shoot the first time someone rubs them in a manner that provides enough friction. It's a penetrating form of humor, a kind of humor that some have to stretch to get, especially those who are anally retentive. For others, it's just plugging along as usual, strapping on the first thing they come to, and then using it to probe everyone within reach. I don't know why it's got you so inflamed. Me, I'm having a ball sacking the opposition. I can't do it all the time (I'm old) but I find it satisfactory to work in spurts. And while my youth is gone, at least I can remember it as not so much checkered, as spattered. Because the rubber didn't always meet the rode, y'see.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
When it comes to unprofessional language in commercial, scientific, and engineering endeavours, there seems to be two assumptions people make:
1. All women are offended by the sorts of words and phrases used by 9th graders in their daily speech.
2. No men are offended by the same sort of language.
Both assumptions are incorrect.
Now, in most situations, I think that people should be able to say what they want. You can talk about body parts in naughty ways, and you can say all manner of insulting things (right or wrong) about anybody's religion. Basically, anything short of threatening to kill people. And if people get offended, they can shove it. I think that the proper and polite thing to do is to make sure that someone who doesn't want to hear what you say isn't forced to listen -- that to read what you wrote or hear what you said requires some positive action on their part, so if they don't like it, it's their fault for seeking it out.
However, in a professional setting, it's time to act like an adult. Discussions of sex and insults about religions are out of place, not because they're *fundamentally* inappropriate, but because they're accepted as inappropriate for professional and public settings. I'm sorry. I don't care how much you and your pals get a kick out of jokes about Jews and dead babies, people shouldn't have to listen to it at the office.
So, then there's this ambiguous situation with FOSS projects. Is this play time or work time? It's kinda both. People do it for fun, but if you don't want to make it a public thing, then you don't put it up on github. If your objective is to get public participation in a technically-oriented project, unprofessional language is out of place. If you want people to take FOSS in general serious, then unprofessional language is out of place. Linus Torvalds didn't publish the source code to Linux because he thought it would be hillarious or an asshole thing to do. The purpose was to attract people into a development community around the project.
In general, I object to certain subject being out in public where it's shoved up everyone's noses. Nude beach? No problem, because you have to travel there to see it. Nude parade down my street? That depends on the purpose, but there are many ways in which human nudity can be a good thing, for artistic, educational, or scientific purposes. (In general, I wouldn't be offended unless it was just really tasteless.) What about people in the nude parade having sex while they travel on floats down my street? No fucking way. I'm not a huge fan of Islam, and I think that its adherents deserve a great deal of criticism, constructive and otherwise. On the other hand, I would find it unacceptable to have to a parade whose purpose was to shout anti-Islamic hate language for everyone to hear. Speaking of screwing in the streets, that's one of the things that bothers me about gay pride parades. Standing up against oppression from bigots who hate you for a perfectly natural thing is good (homosexuality is ubiquitous in the animal kingdom). However, this does not require that your presentation be so hypersexualized that I can't take my kids to see it. (Honestly, we just dont need sex in the streets. Gay people are as normal and weird as any other subset of the population, living their lives, working jobs, etc. Connecting "gay" with "hypersexual" in a public event gives people the wrong idea.)
The bottom line is that people need to learn to be considerate and have some professional decorum. If you're going to do or say something that might insult someone, do it in a principled way as a means to be constructive. Do it because you DO give a shit, not because you don't. This applies to FOSS projects as much as to any other situation.
Although I wouldn't necessarily say you have the "right" to be an asshole, it's vital that you have that freedom. Consider obscenity laws that restrict porn to certain venues. Those may or may not have some value, but laws that try to cu
2. drive away women and socially normal programmers
You're assuming both women and 'socially normal programmers' don't enjoy the occasional dick joke. Which is my second paragraph.
1. suppress the toxic, asocial frat boy douchebaggery
You're also assuming that a repository of dick jokes is automatically toxic.
I don't read AC A human right
So because of this one project suddenly the whole repo is unusable or the whole idea of OSS is untenable?
(facepalm)
if you leave a bag of chocolate in a room and it's empty in 10 seconds, what have you learned?
is it safe to assume the people in the room like chocolate?
do you understand that?
now:
if this socially moronic project rockets to the top in popularity on GitHub, what have you learned about the prevailing culture?
you tell me
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Not if it's true. The best predictors of being (in the closet) gay are
1) being a Catholic Priest
2) Being a Republican in Congress talking daily about "family values", and
3) constantly talking about penises, while denying thinking about penises.
Homosexuals I've run this list past tend to agree, and none have so far indicated feeling insulted.
Learn to love Alaska
Honesty.... who looks up random projects on the internet they don't like and then tries to build a 'shit' list of employees they have prejudged to advise not to hire? It sounds like agenda-driven hiring, or attempts to conform hires to your personal view of the world, rather than good judgement on what is best for the employer.
The joke project is not egregious. If the applicant has the good judgement to not bring it up, and not conduct such things in the workplace or professional settings, then it should be ignored, And I would not want to hire or promote any staff member to reviewing resumes who would be so petty.
It is not a crime, but it does indicate an attitude which makes me believe that a person who revels in such behavior will make a poor team player.
This appears to be a fundamental attribution error on your part. Their commits do not demonstrate for sure any basic attitude; you thus attributed apparent action to attitudes which do not necessarily exist. The only thing we really know here is they participated in a personal capacity in a non-professional setting on a project containing some sort of joke that someone else deemed as violating some current or past social taboo, And, possibly they might have made the mistake of failing to use a separate private or semi-private pseudonym while doing so.
I would infer that that persons 'sense of humor' and attitudes would make it difficult for them to integrate into a team of mixed genders, religious beliefs, and moral attitudes.
This appears to be a rush to judgement for your part, but there actually is not enough information to appropriately judge. One example of an instance of someone's personal sense of humor does not say how they will (or would not) integrate into a team.
I sure wouldn't want to hire you as a referee for resumes, or as a judge in general. The guilty verdict would come down, before the defendant even got to made their case repudiating all the apparent "evidence" from the prosecution.
and to not admit that, to try to deflect that, like you are, is a clumsy, unsuccessful attempt at avoiding the obvious
That you're an ivory tower type trying to find something to feel superior about? That you get to look down on society because *sniff*, it's so crude? That you can't deal with sexual humor?
I'm not calling it high art, obviously. But humor is humor, and part of humor is being inappropriate at times.
I should probably rephrase my point a bit to make it clearer. There are lots of serious repositories out there. The people working on said repositories spend lots of time there. Somehow the 'dick joke' one goes viral(see 'slashdot effect'), and you end up with lots and lots of people signing into said repository to see what's up, even if they only spend 5 minutes on it.
I don't read AC A human right
if this socially moronic project rockets to the top in popularity on GitHub, what have you learned about the prevailing culture?
you tell me
You have learned that your point of view is not as popular as you thought it was. You may want to re-examine your definition of "socially moronic".
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
She sees the same absurdity in the "feminist" movement that I do.
The problem for feminists today is that their parents (or grandparents) won all of the easy battles. Now the only ones left are difficult and nuanced. Addressing them is hard - it's much easier to make up an easy target to attack than deal with real issues.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
There is no right to create a hostile working environment for women.
You are right. There's no reason to make boob-grabbing a sport at work, or install under-table cameras and post the up-skirt shots in the Intranet. There's no reason to announce publicly the menstruation periods of every girl in the office, or enforce a dresscode that ignores female anatomy. Definitely sex should not be a condition for promotion, and meetings should not start with blowjob requests, made in order of beauty to the attending women. Likewise, putting a single toilet for women into the basement while having men toilets everywhere.
Oh wait, you were talking about a software joke project on some random Internet site that nobody is forced to visit or even know about? Yeah, that definitely is the dictionary case for "hostile working environment".
the entire back office being papered over with pinups
That's absolutely the same as a random Internet site that nobody... why am I wasting my time here, a monkey would see the difference.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
if this socially moronic project rockets to the top in popularity on GitHub, what have you learned about the prevailing culture?
That people want to see what all of the controversy is about?
Look, the Internet has actual pornography on it, and I'm told it is very popular. But do you have to look at it if you do not like it? No, you do not. Same goes for the DICSS project. You can go your entire programming life without actually looking at the DICSS project.
Indeed, I intend to go my entire programming life without looking at the DICSS project. I did not click the link, and I am not going to. And it's not because I'm offended by dicks or dick jokes. It's because my sense of humor has changed a bit since middle school, and I just don't see any reason to bother.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock