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IT Jobs With the Best (and Worst) ROI
Nerval's Lobster writes: Over at Dice, there's a breakdown of which tech jobs have the greatest return on investment, with regard to high starting salaries and growth potential relative to how much you need to spend on degrees and certifications. Which jobs top this particular calculation? No shockers here: DBAs, software engineers, programmers, and Web developers all head up the list, with salaries that tick into six-figure territory. How about those with the worst ROI? Graphic designers, sysadmins, tech support, and software QA testers often present a less-than-great combination of relatively little money and room for advancement, even if you possess a four-year degree or higher, unless you're one of the lucky few.
"Over at Dice...[...]"
Since when is that "somewhere else"? Any submission of news from Dice lacks any credibility... and puff piece articles like this aren't worth anyone's time at the best of time.
What's the difference between a software developer and a programmer? One develops software by programming, and the other programs computers to develop software.
Where did you get your salaries from? Those starting salaries are absurdly low. I know which job board I won't be using next time. Thanks Dice!!
Even Youtube has a dislike button. X
Business majors use MS Office and end up being CEOs making millions.
Maybe not "shocked," but I'm a little surprised to see such a difference between sysadmins and DBAs. I usually think of them in the same group, with DBAs being a notch higher by dint of specialization.
Over at McDonald's (one of the worlds greatest Scottish Restaurants) you can taste a variety of taste sensations...
All you'd have to do is type www.mcdonalds.com and it could all be yours. Yep Over at Mcdonalds you could figure out the dinner that best suits your needs over at McDonalds. People might think that by saying over at McDonalds I'd like you to you know go over to Mcdonalds but I'm just Say'n it (I can say this because Slashdot isn't owned by McDonalds its owned by Dice)
Die sads.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
Nonsense. Job titles in IT are just "guidelines" as for your job duties and job duties are what decide salaries once you've become established at a company. I've seen "sys admins" who wrote C++ code all day long for various system tools and got paid well into 6 figures for it. I've seen DBA's who spend there days building systems and configuring various components of the server who also make 6 figures. I think the bottom line is generally that you need to have multiple strong skill sets and to find ways to apply these various skills at your job. A quick story that probably has no real merit: A linux admin at my current job got saddled with trying to get the microsoft system suite to do a few fancier things in terms of configuration management. This means that he had to write a few dozen modules in C++ to get the right data placed into the microsoft suite. He makes well into 6 figures (we're drinking buds). Talent + effort + correct company == high pay.
So basically, -1 troll/offtopic is really slashdots way of saying "I hate that you thought of something before me."
ROI: I think I owe somebody some money.
Shocking... another article from the lip piece that is Nerval's Lobster about Dice.
Fucking douche.
Good pay, good hours, limited room for advancement.
But it's not like I expect a Dice Slashvertizement to be remotely complete...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
These salaries are insanely low.
At the risk of sounding cruel, this reminds me of an unpopular kid who's walking all around school, casually mentioning to everyone that lots of people are going to hang out at his house that night.
"Genders that pay the best in I.T."
Tell that to the HR drones or the managers who see people as interchangeable biological units.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
Around here, if anything, the DBA job is disappearing: There are a lot less openings, and most are at huge, extremely corporate places that you'd not even want to work for. And even in that world, they are switching to development models that don't need DBAs. So maybe the averages are high because only companies that pay well would even hire DBAs?
They also talk of averages, but not high ends. Around here, a programmer's high end is very high: I make 4x what my employer pays an entry level developer. People realize how much a top developer can get you. DBAs, not so much.
but mostly because I mostly enjoy the job. We don't need another wave of money-chasing mouth-breathers fucking up the industry.
If you were me, you'd be good lookin'. - six string samurai
People who do have talent and drive also sometimes end up not succeeding. The people who are willing to step on anyone will definitely end up succeeding though.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Dev ops, I have gone from 40k 6 years ago to 120K+bennies now.
That's not mentioning side work or the 6 emails A week I get about new jobs.
I didn't graduate from high school. I never went to college. I make a six figure salary running million+ dollar machines from IBM running AIX in a very large hospital system.
And the DBA's don't get anything done without us.
UNIX Administrators (notice I didn't say Linux) are still at the top of the food chain. DBA's make a lot of noise and money too, but we are still their overlords.
Rows and columns, BORING. And they have to deal with users, poor bastards.
For some people a satisfying job is an important part of their overall happiness, so even if they might be making less, still might be more fulfilled by their lives.
Of course for other people the job is just 8 hours a day they can easily partition from the rest of their lives, and don't have any such concerns.
There is no good or bad about one or the other, it's just how some people's natures are different. It is though, too important of a metric to be left out of an article like this. Graphic designers might be a good example of this. Some may be making less, but for them it might be more valuable on the balance for their mental state then the money.
Software QA Tester
Entry-level salary: $51,322
Average salary: $51,322
At times I make near double that.
Money seems a bad metric to choose a job. Once it pays enough, having an interesting job is quite important, since you are going to spend at least 8 hours a day at it. Job security can also be another important point: who cares a high wage if you are going to be fired within 2 years and remain unemployed after that (hint: another technological bubble exploded)
Cowbell.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
There's a degree for "Help Desk" support! Am I the only person that sees that as, obviously a waste of time and money?
As a digital forensic analyst, I began at 45K after graduating from Champlain College. Now I make 87K
These reviews always seem to only include the IT jobs everyone's heard of. Where do SAN Admins fit in this? Or enterprise backup? As a storage area network admin, I do pretty well and have a degree in Theater, with no certs at all. And I recently saw a job posting for Avamar/Data Domain for $105k, in a medium-sized market.
I'm the best there is at what I do, but what I do isn't very dice!
Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
Depends on what you call an investment....
I dropped out of high school, completely skipped college, and work in the in NYC making 250K/yr as a software developer.
The smartest ones always have skipped the larger investments yet are yielding the same results. Boy does that piss off a hardworking type A though....
I think there is a term for the rare working-class intellectual not born of the Bourgeois......
If you did not make it up the IT ladder, some of it may be your manager(s) fault but I'd say even without knowing you, it was more than likely yours. I started at my current company as a Tier 2 tech in one of our regional offices making roughly 50K/yr. I was a desktop admin, a network admin, a systems engineer, I expanded into VM and then storage, and eventually voice and networking, now eleven years later I am the infrastructure manager sitting over 7 engineers in our world wide operation and my salary has tripled. I am still physically in the same regional office and 6 of my 7 guys are are not even in my physical office, they are spread across two different offices, most at our headquarters. My situation is not unique. Many of us have worked our way up but also.. a person that started 2 months after me in the same regional office is still here and still a regional Tier 2 tech.
If anyone in your company doing IT is getting promoted and it is not you, don't blame the other guy. If the situation is "bad" and people have it out for you, then go somewhere else and try again. Don't blame others for you not getting promoted. Those engineers and managers at your current company did not start at 20 as senior engineers and managers. They did it somehow. Take responsibility for your career or be happy and comfortable where you are, that is your choice. Just don't complain about a choice YOU made.
I have to admit that I haven't even looked at the job listings on Dice for years (largely because I've been happily employed and didn't feel the need). But as someone with a background in network/systems administration, PC support, etc. -- I distinctly recall finding FEW interesting listings on Dice. The web site seemed slanted towards those looking for software coding or web development jobs, DBAs, or specialists in rolling out and supporting large ERP packages.
So when a survey from Dice tells me that there's more growth, opportunity and money in all of those areas -- I have to take that with a grain of salt.
I mean, look.... I think we should all know by now that help desk jobs are a dead end, unless you're with one of the few remaining companies who hires from within and essentially demands you do your time on their help desk to earn the right to one of the better positions in I.T. they offer. We don't need a survey to tell us that. There's a whole group of jobs out there that tend to have titles like "systems specialist", "support specialist", "support analyst" or even "network manager" where you're likely to wear multiple hats. Often, these turn out to be jobs where you're really the only full-time I.T. person for a small business who finally decided to get serious about I.T. and quit hiring consultants at hourly rates whenever they screwed things up. Other times, you're part of a team who does everything from help desk type support to ensuring backups run to making recommendations for upgrading the whole infrastructure.
I find these positions to be right up my alley, in the sense they aren't as likely to get boring and I get to "call the shots" more and more often, as I get established in such a role and prove to management that I know what I'm doing. (You probably won't make big $'s in these positions, but you'll get your hands on all sorts of different things and get a decent shot at working for a business where you're not just a number or line-item in a spreadsheet.)
So sure.... Dice can hawk the software development side of I.T. as "where the money's at!" -- but I'm good doing what I do, thanks.
SQA jobs hence why I got laid off over a couple months ago. :(
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Whenever I come across some clown who thinks IT "resources" are interchangeable parts I always ask them if they'd hire a carpenter to install a combi boiler or fix a broken toilet. Invariably they all look at me like I'm mad and say of course not, at which point I highlight that expecting IT "resource" X to do IT "resource" Z's job is just as idiotic.
I find drawing real world analogies tends to help as IT is still viewed by many as this mystical and arcane black magic.
Electrical/Computer Engineers > Computer Science >>> IT
It'd give a whole new meaning to the word "slashdotting".
A developer has a sell by date, it seems, not really or course although he/she will be slower when older. I think that's a major risk of being in IT
You actually kind of proved the point because you are not an engineer/admin anymore, you are now a manager. It's a pretty sad cultural quirk that the target of every so called "career path" always tend to be some kind of management, removing the best engineers from what they do best if they want to have a good salary.
My other account has a 3-digit UID.
I noticed there's no ROI mention here. Interesting.
Rate of income? Return on investment? Republic of Ireland?
For the love of god please stop with the obscure acronyms just for the sake of saving a few keystrokes?
Seriously, do you honestly think that the world doesn't see Slashdot as a Dice advertising mouthpiece now?
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, manage.
Those who can't manage, administrate.
Graphic designer was an art job, not a tech job. Just because graphic designers are now being used to develop user interface components doesn't make graphic design a tech job. Dice is full of idiots.
"Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."
This is a reason/excuse for pay reduction.
"Those who can't teach, manage. Those who can't manage, administrate."
And these two jobs have sudden pay raises over those who "can do"
I CHOSE that route based on the options presented. I spoke with my fellow engineers at the time and got their backing. I only got the supervisor position because of their support. I could have stayed as an engineer, held out or pitched for an architect position. I could have left and went somewhere else for an arcitech position. The point is you cannot blame others or "them" for your lack of moving up no matter what track or disipline you are doing. In my specific case supervisory and management is not my thing but luckiliy I am still involved in the day to day because of the relationship I maintain with the team and the "middle" sizing of our IP department. IT is my second career and I've only been doing it for 15 years. I am losing interest in it. I exited completely out of my old career (nuclear power) for the same reason. As soon as my 20 something kids move out, I'll move on to a totally different career. I've recently got a welding certification and I'm completing up what I need for my HVAC certification. I"ll start at the bottom again and see how far those can get me.
"Nerval's Lobster writes: "
If you go to Nerval's Lobster's profile http://slashdot.org/~Nerval%27s+Lobster most of the contributions seem to be links to Dice stories.
There is a problem with the IT or technical ladder itself in many companies where IT is not core business (and even in some where it is). The ladder can be rather short: Junior / Medior / Senior tech (and senior can be someone with as little as 5 years experience), then you basically leave tech and be project manager, line manager or the manager of a division or competence center or some such. A few rock stars may stay in tech as Principal Consultants, but those are rare (and often not promoted from within).
In many companies, there will be a few clever techies who are recognized as being very knowledgable in their own area of expertise as well as having a wider and forward looking view, and who are consulted on where to head the company's strategic direction. Such a techie may be promoted to management (and possibly do a crap job at the people and process aspects of that), or the existing manager may continue to draw upon his best techies to help him strategize, but why not turn it into a role? Some companies do, but I don't see it very often and it's a shame, because it can be a very nice role for a senior tech to be promoted into, increasing his value to the company as well.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
As a slashdot reader I would like to filter stories by submitter so that I can save myself the pain of seeing articles from Dice shills and other self promoters.
'The tyrant will always find pretext for his tyranny.' - Aesop's Fables
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach, manage.
Those who can't manage, administrate.
What a load of unsubstantiated ideological crock.
I suppose we could say that those can't... say stuff like that on Slashdot?
They don't factor in geolocation; "associate software engineer" churned up mostly in west coast states. I'd hope you got paid better in CA than in IA because well, the cost of living is staggering.
That's interesting because if you look at career paths as a funnel, at the focal point administration and at the other entry-level, you're bound to get knocked aside by another Plinko token.
Since as a software engineer I completely admit you know way more about databases than I do.(You're worth every dollar you get paid.) The problem is so many managers think "Oh we don't need DBA's, you SE's can do it. It'll be just as good. Oh and we don't need release engineers either since we'll save money by having the SE's do that as well." (Yeah, right.)
Did you know 80 to 90% of the moderators on slashdot wouldn't recognize a troll even if one dragged them under a bridge.
Said the Senior Administrator.
Actually it's pretty bang on in my half decade in the workplace from what I've seen.
The original material talked about salaries and job titles; it didn't say how much investment it took to develop the skills to get those titles. Some of those skills are things you can add quickly; others take a long time or access to appropriate work environments. (For instance, learning PHP is quick, and Ruby on Rails isn't that hard either. But while you can learn SQL and MySQL pretty quickly, becoming a DBA really needs access to real-world databases and workloads that you're involved in administering.)
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks