Microsoft Announces Surface 3 Tablet

An anonymous reader writes: Today Microsoft announced the latest device in their line of Windows tablets: the Surface 3. The tablet runs a full version of Windows (the troublesome "RT" line has been deprecated), and aims to compete with Apple's iPad. The Surface 3 has a 10.8" screen running at 1920x1280 (note the 3:2 ratio). It's 8.7mm thick and weighs 622 grams (1.27 lbs). They're somewhat vague about the battery life, but they say it will last up to 10 hours "based on video playback." They've also made it possible to charge the device with a standard micro-USB charger. The base device with 64GB storage, 2GB RAM, and Wi-Fi will cost $500, and it'll scale up with more storage, more ram, and 4G LTE connectivity. (It maxes out at 4GB RAM, so any heavy-duty gaming is probably out of the question.) The keyboard is still a separate $130 accessory as well.

Comments

I might get one...

[MAXOMENOS]

...once these things run Windows 10. 10 isn't a bad OS when compared to 7, let alone Vista, 8, or 8.1.

Re:I might get one...

[ganjadude]

IT probably will run win 10 now. I know a guy running win 10 on a surface pro 3 currently

Re:I might get one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and now with cloud integration you can't remove anymore, a bad siri-wannabe (on a desktop!) that requires a live account, it still tries to hide creating local accounts... The list goes on! Soon it'll include ads everywhere thanks to ContentDeliveryManager.

It's all about forcing people into lowest-common denominator (Metro|Win-8 Style|Modern|Windows Store|Universal|Windows) Apps, because that somehow will make WP10 the iPhone/Android killer they're expecting it to be, and also sell more Surface devices and cloud storage of course. MS is a one-trick pony now. The only thing they do is failing at selling devices which no one wants of, while killing their goose that lays golden eggs.

Re:I might get one...

[ruir]

Hello brother! Good to see I am not the only one. Please post with your real id, no shame in not using software defective by design.

Re:I might get one...

[Anonymous Coward]

not sure where you are reading your reviews from. Personally we have been imaging laptops and desktops here were I work and have users trialling it as there OS as we intend to roll it out next year. So far the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive with the exception of a few bugs with tablet/desktop modes for some applications. We did the same thing with win 8 and the feedback at the time was overwhelmingly negative. From all indications once they work out the bugs win 10 is going to be a smash hit, especially in enterprises.

Re:I might get one...

[Mike Frett]

My Mother is 61, has little experience with Computers yet has no problem using Linux. You better re-think your statement, this isn't 1995.

Re:I might get one...

[Anonymous Coward]

pphhppt! It's just an atom. I'd hoped that they'd release a core m 5yXX version AND offer that with up to 8GB. It'd still be below their i7 and i5, close to the i3 but should have even better batt runtime(assuming 5yXX).

The Atom SHOULD have better batt runtime as well, but I haven't really looked at what got renamed to atom x7 yet, so I can't say anything more about that. The Bay Trail Atoms really did improve the CPU part, can't really say much about the GPU as I haven't tried any games on it although I gather it's as I expected mostly older games playable in some fashion while some newer ones MIGHT be runnable at super low settings.

Re:I might get one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why bother with a pseudonym, why don't you post with your real name?

Re:I might get one...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and now with cloud integration you can't remove anymore, a bad siri-wannabe (on a desktop!) that requires a live account

In the old days the inability to remove something was a problem due to limitations on disk space, these days that limitation is hardly an issue. If you dont want the feature then dont use it or use an operating system that allows you to remove it. Personally the fact that my programs run better on Windows 8 than Windows 7 is enough for me to use it, sure it doesnt have a start menu but I never used that anyway (I use a Mac about 50% of the time and it doesn't have a start menu so I just use the same workflow on both).

it still tries to hide creating local accounts...

If you need it and can't find it (frankly it isnt that hard) then google for it.

The list goes on!

Really? Your list is hardly substantial, if that's the worst of it then clearly they have done a damn good job!

Re:I might get one...

[RespekMyAthorati]

As soon as I installed Win 10, I said to myself:
"Thank God, I have Win 7 back".

See nothing that says this is x86

[rahvin112]

I see not one thing that says this is an x86. If it's not x86 it's still ARM and still windows RT even if they don't call it RT anymore. The result being you can only run software from the windows store, no legacy apps.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[hackersass]

The linked page indicates it's an Intel Atom x7 chip, which would be X86

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[rahvin112]

Never mind, it's in one of the last paragraphs. It's an ATOM processor. Depending on the version and clock speed it could be ok or a total piece of crap running full windows.

The netbook is reborn!

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

Reading comprehension.

Surface 3 runs full 64-bit Windows 8.1 and will be available with Windows Pro for business customers. It will be upgradable to Windows 10 for free when it’s available. With full Windows, it will run the desktop applications you depend on for work or school.

And from the product page:

Surface 3 has a Quad Core Intel® Atom x7 processor, so it’s fast, responsive and won’t slow you down when you’re on the go.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[vivek7006]

I see not one thing that says this is an x86. If it's not x86 it's still ARM and still windows RT even if they don't call it RT anymore. The result being you can only run software from the windows store, no legacy apps.

Its a 14nm Cherry Trail SoC. Don't confuse this with old crappy Atom. These are really fast. This is http://www.anandtech.com/show/...

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

From the article:

"Surface 3 is powered by Intel’s newest system-on-a-chip, the Quad-core Intel® Atom x7 processor, the highest performing Atom processor on the market."

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[sexconker]

They aren't really fast. They say that every fucking time and it's a pathetic joke every fucking time, just like with their integrated graphics.
Put up or shut up - benchmarks of the new x7 Atom please. (Oh wait, there are none, because Intel only wants sites to regurgitate their PR and slides comparing them to fucking phone CPUs.)

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

Does 64-bit Windows even run well on 2GB? The WinBook TW801 tablet I picked up for $140 a while back ($100 now) runs the 32-bit OS on its 64-bit Atom, and I assumed it was because it only has 2GB of memory.

It's nice that the Surface 3 has a screen resolution as high as the $150 Nook HD+ tablet had two years ago, though.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[DaHat]

Given this is the first device to ship (that I'm aware of) with an Atom x7, comparing it to Atoms of old may be premature.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[ljw1004]

I see not one thing that says this is an x86. If it's not x86 it's still ARM and still windows RT even if they don't call it RT anymore. The result being you can only run software from the windows store, no legacy apps.

Wikipedia says the Atom x7 is an x86 chip
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki...

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

The first Atoms, sure. Atoms arnt the pieces of shit they used to be.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

Atom branding got applied to recent processors. Confusing, I know. They aren't the Atoms you are thinking of, thank goodness.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[ljw1004]

Here are (only two) benchmark results...
http://browser.primatelabs.com...

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Bing Tsher E]

This isn't your grandma's Atom.

The Windows Tablets are going to eventually kill the iPad unless Apple comes to their senses and tears down that wall.

"Apple, Tear Down This Wall!"

(they won't, the long chain of fart apps will drag them under)

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey, the Q6600 remains an impressive processor and it was a great deal. That's the one thing I never skimp on when building a system. Buy a good CPU (I had a Q6600 until 2012, now a Core i7-3770k) and you won't need to replace it for 3-6 years now, provided your needs are relatively static. And honestly, my Core i7-3770k made less of a different for most of my needs than an SSD did.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been thinking about upgrading to a Q6600. (you insensitive clod)!

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[rahvin112]

As others have noted the newer atoms aren't the same as the old under powered garbage. I've actually got a server running one of the new Atom server chips. It's a good low power processor with some strong capabilities for the power envelope it uses.

Though there is one exception, there are some under powered Atom chips. They are smaller and use even less power and generally aren't intended for a PC type install. But they do exist because Intel is still trying to figure out how to sell chips in this space without totally cannibalizing desktop sales with chips they lose money on.

Which chip Microsoft chose (or whatever one Intel let them use) is going to determine whether the surface 3 is garbage or a reasonable balance of CPU and power use. It's entirely possible it's going to be way to slow for use in anything CPU intensive because Intel is still making Atoms that aren't very good, even if they are better than the previous Atoms.

It's interesting to me that Microsoft isn't saying WHICH Atom they used.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Hamsterdan]

I wouldn't be so sure. It wouldn't be the first time MS failed with a product line. Zune, Windows CE PDAs, Windows Phone, Tablet PCs...

iOS and Android devices are here to stay. Most people using tablets don't need X86 compatibility on a portable device (that's what laptops are for). Tablets are used to consume content and view documents and the current crop is perfectly capable of doing so.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

The modern web is awful

Are you just parroting cynicism or do you actually have concrete examples of how the modern web is "awful" insofar as it requires so much more processing power?

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[ILongForDarkness]

I was hoping for a pro version of the Surface pro :( maybe in 6 months. I'd like 16GB ram, 512GB SSD and a i7 CPU (and not a crappy two core U version broadwell)). 8 GB just won't cut it for me as a desktop/laptop replacement. I already have an iPad so ... little reason to buy the MS product.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[ILongForDarkness]

The latest broadwells coming out that it seems like HP has replaced their whole consumer laptop line are at most (with a ~350 upgrade to the i7 version) still 20% slower than my late 2009 iMac. Yeah I know desktop vs laptop but still 6 years later and still slower. Pathetic. Anyways a lot of people are fine with it I guess as long as it can decode 1080p fast enough for smooth playback. Not me but probably the mass of the market :(

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[ChunderDownunder]

Atoms in tablets were never about performance. Your CPU has an astonishingly bad 105W TDP, which uses (at least) 10 times the power.

Fanless computing in a small enclosure...

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[bloodhawk]

older atoms were far too slow, last gen atoms were ok for grandma machines. this gen of atoms looks to be quite suitable even as a desktop replacement for the average user that doesn't do much more than office apps, email and web surfing.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

WTF are you on about. They have explicitedly said which atom chip is in the surface. It is the Intel Atom x7 cherrytrail, of which their is only currently one processor that is just being released, it has a base frequency of 1.6ghz with burst to 2.4. there is nothing vague about what they are using.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[shutdown -p now]

It is plenty fast for a tablet.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

There are HP Stream 11 laptops that cost $200.

I think one would actually be good as a portable video and SNES emulator machine.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[rwa2]

Yes, I got the $100 HP Stream 7 for my wife a few months ago, and I have to admit it's pretty nice. As long as you're only running a couple things at a time, it's easy to forget you're not using a "real" computer. It keeps up with most social media sites just fine, without those long pauses and freezes that I get on my old EeePC901. Even have her Steam account set up on it and it does a great job at the 2D games like Mini Metro.

The main problems are the UI, of course... click and drag is difficult to get working on the tiny touchscreen, the tiny desktop elements are tricky to hit consistently, and the onscreen keyboard feels absolutely primitive compared to the default keyboards on Android/iOS nowadays. Someday I'll bother hooking up a USB keyboard/mouse or twiddler something to it and it should be fine, though.

People complain about the 1GB of RAM constraining the multitasking, but at $100 a pop, you can afford to build up a collection of these things and fill up your desk and walls with tablets running an individual app or website on each.

My other main annoyance with it is that it will spontaneously run out of batteries every other day or so if I don't leave it plugged in. Sometimes it'll be fine for a few days on standby, and then over the course of a few more hours it'll suddenly drain itself to 0% and shutdown and refuse to turn back on again until I've plugged it in for several minutes to build up enough charge to attempt to boot. I'm sure there's a simple fix I could just Google for (err, maybe Bing), but by the time I grab another device, trying to tweak drivers or power settings on that thing is the furthest thing from my mind :P

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[mczak]

Well that Q6600 has 105W TDP - this new cpu has got a 2W SDP (ok that's marketing bs number, intel doesn't disclose the TDP, but should be around 4W or so). And that includes the gpu (which isn't included in the Q6600, and the gpu would be WAY faster than the one in the chipset the Q6600 came with at least if that was a intel chipset).
But yes in absolute cpu performance terms this can't touch a Q6600. However, compared to other tablet cpus it should do ok (compared to the broadwell Core-M chips some managed to cramp in similar sized fanless devices it will still lose but at least it shouldn't have that many thermal issues). Something like the iPad Air 2 could also be close in performance (or beat it depending on the task).
So, comparing to desktop class cpus isn't really fair, and against chips of the same class it should do ok (I don't really trust those preliminary benchmark numbers though by all accounts they could be true - cpu wise this is essentially a die-shrinked baytrail atom, so probably roughly the same performance with somewhat reduced power draw, though the graphics should be much improved - it now has intel Gen 8 graphics with 16 EUs instead of Gen 7 graphics with just 4 EUs though clocked lower).

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[adolf]

105W is not astonishingly bad; it was simply the cost of performance at the time (before the i7 brand and DDR3 became a common thing). The power consumption game had barely started for desktop components.

I expect my portable computers to be just that: Portable computers. I do the same things with a portable computer as I do with a desktop computer.

For me, this lately means software decoding of many concurrent high-resolution video streams, and heavy single-threaded software.

I doubt this new Atom part is even as fast as my (even more ancient) 1.83GHz, 2MB cache, single-core Pentium-M laptop at these tasks.

It doesn't if the battery lasts twice as long, if it also takes twice as long to accomplish the work before me.

Perhaps I am a corner-case in that I actually want a CPU to be "fast" compared to products from a decade or so ago, especially if the device is bigger than a cell phone. I'm not buying anything slower than what I already have.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[thegarbz]

105W is not astonishingly bad;

Yeah you're right. The correct word would be fucking atrocious and physically unworkable in an enclosure only 1cm thick.

I expect my portable computers to be just that: Portable computers. I do the same things with a portable computer as I do with a desktop computer.

Then buy an Alienware desktop replacement. Just don't come back and complain it costs more than $500, weighs more, or is thicker or heavier.

I doubt this new Atom part is even as fast as my (even more ancient) 1.83GHz, 2MB cache, single-core Pentium-M laptop at these tasks.

Why doubt when you could simply type Pentium M into the search box and see that not a single Pentium M based PC beat it in single-core benchmarks?

Perhaps I am a corner-case in that I actually want a CPU to be "fast" compared to products from a decade or so ago, especially if the device is bigger than a cell phone. I'm not buying anything slower than what I already have.

You're not a corner case. You're simply clueless in matters of engineering, reality, and lack the realisation that there's more people in the world than yourself who would much prefer something small, light, can run all day without power, and still do pretty much most of the common tasks that don't require a modern workstation or gaming rig to perform.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[adolf]

I engineer my systems and tools for me, not you.

I need ports, expandability, and the ability to plug random hardware in. I don't need light-weight, and I don't need to run all day on batteries.

I have all of that, along with what I believe to be comparable speed...instead of none of that, and $499 less in my pocket.

I've got better things to spend $499 on than a side-grade to a different form factor that doesn't fucking work for me. But thanks anyway, asshole!

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[plover]

That's a premature pronouncement, too. My Windows tablet is also now my laptop, just smaller and lighter. Not as light as my iPad, but the iPad has been relegated to a desk drawer because it's essentially useless compared to carrying around a tablet with a fully functioning OS.

If Apple were to install OSX on the iPad family of devices, that would indeed change the game again. But that would mean cutting into their insanely lucrative monopoly with their App Store model, so that's not likely to happen.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Hamsterdan]

I wouldn't be so sure, Apple has proven many times they can switch OS and Architectures in a pretty seamless way.

Apple ][->68K via expansion card or emulation, 68K->PPC via Classic or Fat Binaries, OS9->OSX via emulation and PPC->x86 via Rosetta or Universal Binaries.

In latest OSX versions, the scroll bars act the same as on iDevices, and since iOS is based on OSX, It wouldn't be too hard for them to switch OS and/or architectures again (or emulate iOS apps on OSX).

Time will tell I guess...

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[samwichse]

Then why are you even posting in this story?

You opened up a story about a device targeting someone else's needs to carp about how it sucks because it targets someone else's needs?

Looks like a nice device to me, a step sideways from an iPad.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[exomondo]

Switching architectures is fine in principle but in the past it has been about switching from a lower performance CPU to a higher performance one, emulating x86 on ARM is going the other way.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

I need ports, expandability, and the ability to plug random hardware in.

Then what you want is probably a desktop computer or a workstation laptop, not a tablet.

I don't need light-weight, and I don't need to run all day on batteries.

Then why would you care about a device that is targeted at that in particular and then complain that it isn't what you want?

I have all of that, along with what I believe to be comparable speed...instead of none of that, and $499 less in my pocket.

So what you are saying is that a new product that is designed for something different than what you want is not what you want. Ah the screwdriver, what a stupid, useless expensive tool! I use a hammer because it drives nails so much better.

I've got better things to spend $499 on than a side-grade to a different form factor that doesn't fucking work for me.

Nobody is asking you to buy one, if it isn't what you want or need then don't buy it. Why are you getting so angry about the existence of a product that isn't designed to meet your needs? You really need to relax.

Re: See nothing that says this is x86

[Anonymous Coward]

Ironic that they can swap hardware "seamlessly", but can't maintain backwards compatibility from one point release to next of OSX.

I'm not sure "seamless" means the same thing for Mac users that it means for windows. I can run code I compiled for DOS 3.11 on Windows 8.1 - if it is using an emulator THAT is seamless!

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[thegarbz]

Yeah I know. I'm a race car driver. Why the fuck would anyone even consider buying a horse! The entire horse industry shouldn't exist. Maybe I'm just a corner case.

Why did you even bother anything at all? Don't you have something better to do than talk down products you are not at all interested in and don't fit your use case?

Get a hobby man.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Bing Tsher E]

It's entirely possible, though, that Apple could grow up and start putting real CPUs in their tablet line.

I hope nobody was seriously suggesting they put OSX on the existing line of iPads? Apple might do that to kill off the older iPads but they'd never do that and call it a new device. When Apple abandons iOS it will cease to have ever existed. It'll be like the Newton.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[Bing Tsher E]

I bought a Dell Venue 8 Pro, and then an Asus Transformer. Both were more than $100 but they also both came with Office 2013 (home & student) preinstalled. Not a 'trial' edition, and not a subscription. The Venue 8 was $300 and O2013 retails by itself for $139. It was a decent bundle, though I had to get the Transformer Book before the office suite was seriously usable. You can add a bluetooth keyboard to the Venue 8 Pro, but the Asus comes with it, and has a much bigger screen. And the Asus was only $279.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[exomondo]

That was what spurred this discussion:

If Apple were to install OSX on the iPad family of devices, that would indeed change the game again.

Hence my response.

Re:See nothing that says this is x86

[adolf]

Scroll up: I was talking-down the "and it's fast!" mentality of some OP, above.

But it's not fast, compared to any paid-for example of the very old things that I have in front of me, for the things I actually use computers for.

I mean, srsly, I don't care if it can render 1080p h.264 in perfect quality. I really don't: I've got a $23 Chromecast for that, plugged into the TV in my home theater The "difficult" tasks I have are all CPU-bound, and the CPU in question in TFS is anything but "fast." It may be low-power, and amazingly low-power at that, but it's not "fast" by any long stretch of any modern definition.

(In other news: 8088 CPUs also received low-power varients, some probably still in production. As did the 80386. None were commonly found in the field. My own Pentium-M undervolts to Low-Voltage Pentium-M specs, and then some, with perfect stability: If I decide to tweak it again (which I may not, since I've had the computer a very long time), its power consumption will also be very low for the work being accomplished.)

(and when I was undervolting my Pentium-M, it was because I was trying to minimize fan noise and radiant heat through the keyboard in the very quiet office environment I used it in at that time. I still don't care about TDP in portable computing: The first thing I do when things look like they may be lengthy is look for an available outlet, and I've (so far!) got enough extension cord in my bag to make it work.)

(Oh, and TDP is a lie these days, because CPUs tend to be both self- and dynamically-overclocking. If the chip gets hot, it'll just refuse to operate at the higher clock speeds that might meet demand, and will instead just slog along at a clock that keeps the temperature within reasonable ("TDP") spec. And in doing so, the chip vendor gets great numbers...which are based on lies.)

Will wait and see....

[Anonymous Coward]

I am not in the market for one, don't like the design (not to mention I prefer "OS X").

It's processor costs less than 10% of the one in the new Macbook - a quad core Atom (price indicates it really is meant for a tablet not a computer) - no real tests indicating how it will perform. It has 25% of the memory, 25% of the SSD..... and it runs Windows (and yes 50% the price once the keyboard is added). I found that Windows 7 running with 2GB was sluggish but with the SSD now that may be mitigated. It will be interesting to see how well it actually runs those windows programs (I found Unix systems to be better at memory management on low memory devices).

A lot of press have quoted it as being a "Macbook air killer".... how things change.... that the press is measuring things against Apple vs vice-versa.

I would like to play with one in a store sometime -- but would never buy one.

Re:Will wait and see....

[Anonymous Coward]

A lot of press have quoted it as being a "Macbook air killer"

Given that it is half the price, has a higher resolution and higher quality (IPS vs TN) display, has a better GPU, a touchscreen and a stylus it certainly beats it on features. And depending on whether the applications take advantage of parallel processing GPGPU computing (many of the creative and manufacturing applications do) then it could end up winning out on performance too.

actually sounds really good

[crgrace]

The micro-USB thing is huge. It is such a pain in the ass that I can't mix and match connectors with my ipod and other devices. I'm glad MS isn't going for nonstandard (read: lucrative) connectors (yet).

If the battery life pans out to be real (and video consumption is second only to wifi as a battery killer in my experience) this might be my next tablet...

Re:actually sounds really good

[ralphsiegler]

bluetooth and wifi would cover most people for peripherals

Re:actually sounds really good

[Anonymous Coward]

Type C would have been better in the long run (if a little annoying in the short run)

Re:actually sounds really good

[Bing Tsher E]

I have one of the Asus Transformer Windows 8.1 tablets.

I can plug any external hard drive into it. And it just works. Likewise any other USB peripheral anywhere in the world that works with Windows 8 works.

Cruddy walled garden stuff is gonna die.

Re: actually sounds really good

[Anonymous Coward]

Walled gardens sound crappy until you have to look after all of a families computers.
All our iPhones and iPads sign on to the AppStore with a single account, so all get the same apps. All backup to one iTunes machine. Never had a problem with any of them. The one machine that gives me the most grief, my wife's win8.1 pc. I can't imagine having to look after 5 or more of these suckers in a home environment with no ad or policies.

Re: actually sounds really good

[perryizgr8]

Walled gardens sound crappy until your users turn out to be stupid.

Re:actually sounds really good

[Neil Boekend]

That doesn't help you charge the thing.

Re:actually sounds really good

[ralphsiegler]

oh yes, walking around with a tablet with a 3TB raided mybook dangling from it suddenly makes sense, clearly I've been doing things wrongly.

Re: actually sounds really good

[samwichse]

On a related note, my father's iPad overlays every webpage he tries to load with a phony virus warning.

How he managed to install that kind of malware, I have no idea... but clearly they will keep building better idiots.

Re:actually sounds really good

[Bing Tsher E]

Why would you walk around with it. You dock the thing and move stuff in and out of the onboard flash. Or you dock it to do real work, and then can carry it to the meeting with the important info you needed.

Don't get all sulky because Apple and Google told you that you have to use the Cloud. We know, we know. It's far bigger than 3TB.

Re:actually sounds really good

[ralphsiegler]

I have file server accessible by wifi, don't need any "cloud'. Haven't had the need to attach any USB storage even though my tablet has the port

2GB?

[Tablizer]

2GB? You gotta be kidding. Windows crawls with 2GB. It might be okay for 6 months or so, but if you do anything or install anything real, you'll go crazy waiting for the hard-drive.

They do offer a 4GB model for more money, but 4 should be the baseline.

Re:2GB?

[tlhIngan]

2GB? You gotta be kidding. Windows crawls with 2GB. It might be okay for 6 months or so, but if you do anything or install anything real, you'll go crazy waiting for the hard-drive.

Well geez, I paid $100, bought an HP Stream 7 and it only has 1GB of RAM. And it's plenty speedy.

In fact, for Windows 8.1 and Atom, it's surprisingly fast.

The only thing is, for $100, the Stream 7 can run like crap and I'd still like it - it's a $100 friggin' PC running full Windows. Heck, I have Steam running on it!

This thing though is $500. A bit pricey for a Atom based tablet, I think.

Re:2GB?

[Bing Tsher E]

There is a broad range of Windows 8.1 tablets now running with x86 processors. Very broad. If you attach a bluetooth keyboard and mouse and run the thing in desktop mode it will run all the Windows stuff going way back. The Win8 on these things is the 32 bit version, so a lot of old legacy 32 bit stuff that breaks on Win 8 desktops will work on these tablets.

Re:2GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

As was said similarly already. I have Dell Venue 8 Pro, 2GB RAM, has a pressure-sensitive pen input and win 8.1 runs quite well on the little guy. Plus, I only paid around $120 for it. It isn't a powerhouse for sure but it doesn't feel slow at all, which is saying a lot since my main computer is an i7-3770k and a full fledged SSD rather than the eMMC in the Dell V8P.

Re:2GB?

[LinuxIsGarbage]

I also got an HP stream, was hesitant with it being an Atom and 1GB RAM, but performance seems pretty good. Sticking with tablet like workflows: Video player, web browser, it's not so bad. I hate to say it but Metro IE doesn't seem that bad either. Chrome can run in New UI mode (which requires taking over default browser) is a close second. On screen keyboard will popup up when required (even in desktop mode), gestures work well for eg: zoom. Downside is forward back, etc buttons are way too small, even in Metro mode. Firefox sucks on Tablets.

You can break into desktop if you want for EG: MS Office, Putty, FileZilla, but the desktop is real small to navigate with your finger. Dollar store capacitive stylus makes it more bearable. Likewise Bluetooth Keyboard / mouse are options. Obviously you aren't going to be loading heavy duty applications on it.

The cameras are complete pieces of crap, but for an Atom Z3735G, 1GB RAM, 32GB eMMC tablet it's drastically cheaper than a lot of others, and performance is surprisingly good. A lot better than an Atom N280 1.5GB RAM Netbook I have running 8.1.

Re:2GB?

[bloodhawk]

windows will run more than fine in 2GB, it will run fine in 1GB with win 8.1. it really comes down to applications and as it is a tablet 2GB is probably fine for most users that will use it for web browsing and consuming media.

Re:2GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

>you'll go crazy waiting for the hard-drive

Welcome back from your decades of animated suspension, Mr. Tablizer. It is now the year 2014 and we have these nifty gizmos called SSDs now that are blazingly fast secondary storage.

(Also, you should probably stop making Duke Nukem Forever jokes since nobody will get it; it actually got released a couple of years ago. You'll have to switch to Year of Linux on the Desktop jokes instead.)

Re:2GB?

[Anonymous Coward]

2GB? You gotta be kidding. Windows crawls with 2GB. It might be okay for 6 months or so, but if you do anything or install anything real, you'll go crazy waiting for the hard-drive.

It doesn't even have a hard drive, it has a much faster SSD. Windows 8 is actually much better in terms of memory usage than Windows 7 was, 2GB is plenty for a baseline system.

Re:2GB?

[Tablizer]

But that may not be the case when Windows 10 comes out. To make Windows 10 "normal" again, they may have to add some of the bloat back.

Or you may order software designed for Windows 7 machines that assumes at least 2GB because that's the typical target machine they would have built it for.

2GB if RAM

[emBEDed]

I haven't toyed much with the Windows 10 Developer Preview yet, but I can't imagine that it is going to be very responsive with only 2GB of RAM. That lets you run...part of Chrome?

Re:2GB if RAM

[slaker]

2GB RAM on Windows 8 or 10 is completely usable for common computing tasks. Web browsing is tricky, particularly with Chrome, which at this point is pretty disrespectful of machines with limited amounts of RAM. Firefox and IE both do better. Some of the desktops I support are 2GB Windows 8 machines. For the most part, they're all subjectively identical to 4GB and 8GB machines until enough tabs or PDFs are open for Windows to start swapping.

downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look bette

[magarity]

The first and second versions had i5 processors. this third one has an Atom. trying to make battery life numbers and heat dissipation better?

Re:downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look be

[Glasswire]

No the current generation Surface Pro 3 is still a Core i5 - current generation. This is Surface non-Pro that is an Atom x7

Ugh...

[Anonymous Coward]

>Surface 3 is powered by Intel’s newest system-on-a-chip, the Quad-core Intel® Atom x7 processor [...]

So go from an actual decent processor, the i7, to a really shitty one. Atom.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Re:Ugh...

[darkwing_bmf]

It went from the NVIDIA Tegra 4 (surface 2), which is ARM based to Atom based (surface 3).

You must be thinking of the PRO line, which contains a full up "i series" processor (up to i7 if you want to fork over the $).

Re:downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look be

[Anonymous Coward]

The first and second versions had i5 processors. this third one has an Atom.

The first and second Pro versions had i5 processors...as does the third Pro version. The first and second Surface (non-Pro) versions had ARM processors and ran Windows RT, this third version has an Atom x7 processor and runs Windows 8.1.

Surface Hardware Looks Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

The hardware looks great.

Windows is a dealbreaker for me though.

Re:Surface Hardware Looks Awesome

[CannonballHead]

Windows is a dealbreaker for me though.

I'm not a fan of the metro stuff and start screen on 8, though at least 8.1 half fixed metro apps by letting you close them. Windows 10 is supposed to run metro apps in a window on the desktop. But, all that said - I have to say that if I had a tablet, the new Start screen thing and metro apps ... would be totally fine. That seems to be what it was designed for. And being able to switch between those two contexts is even better (as 10 can do, I believe... manually, or based on screen size). I'm assuming it was the metro stuff that you meant was a dealbreaker. I've heard good things about it on Windows phones (I don't own own)

This comes from someone running RHEL on his work laptop, Windows 8.1 on his desktop, and Android on all his mobile/tablet devices. And I work with several versions of unix, linux, and windows for a living... I'm no Windows fanboy. :) But Windows 7 was good, Windows 8 was better aside from the badly implemented UI changes, 8.1 improved somewhat [I installed a third party start button modification thingy], and it looks like Windows 10 will actually be pretty good, from what I've seen [I have not actually run it]. It seems that Microsoft is trying to reinvent itself somewhat, moving to a make-money-with-services idea... more platform agnostic. Which is awesome; Google and Apple could use some competition, and Amazon could, too, in the cloud arena ... specifically, making things more widely compatible (seriously, why isn't there a google music roku app?).

Re:Surface Hardware Looks Awesome

[Bing Tsher E]

I for one am hoping and expecting Mozilla to come to deeply regret abandoning Firefox on Metro. I.E. is pretty nice in Metro on a tablet and when Microsoft comes out with their new non-IE browser with Windows 10 all the third party browsers are going to be caught with their pants down. Apple should probably start porting Safari to Metro as soon as they can, for when the iPad is roadkill.

Re:downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look be

[phoenix_rizzen]

Surface RT and Surface 2 (the previous versions of the Surface tablet) used ARM-based SoCs.

Surface 3 uses an Intel Atom x7 SoC.

Don't confuse these with the Surface Pro tablets which have used Intel Core i3, i5, i7 CPUs (depending on version).

2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[HannethCom]

As much as I hate Windows 8.1, one thing they have done right is greatly reduced the memory load.
Windows Vista 64-bit took about 2GB RAM, you basically had to have 3GB+ to run anything.
Windows 7 64-bit took about 1GB RAM, or practical tests 0.8GB, you basically had to have 2GB+ to run anything.
Windows 8/8.1 takes a whole 0.28GB RAM, you basically need 1GB+ to run anything.
The Surface 3 is made for word processing, browsing the web, watching video, taking notes, or simpler tasks like that. 2GB will work well for this role.
Will it work well for you? Maybe not, this is why there is the full line-up of the Surface 3 and Surface 3 Pro models.
Unlike the ARM based Surface models, these will run any X86 program, this opens up all sorts of possibilities. Portable sound studio? Why not, the voice of Honest Trailers uses Audacity and since the Surface 3 has a standard USB 3 Port, you just need a good USB Microphone, or a good converter.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[MightyMartian]

Or you could just buy a notebook.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[Darinbob]

I suspect 2GB is enough *if* you stick to modern (Metro) style apps. Those apps aren't much different from a web applications in many ways; highly scripted, relying on back end servers, etc.

But if someone's going to use full applications (ie, Office, Photoshop, etc) then 2GB will start to hurt. On the other hand, 2GB on a smaller OS will go a whole lot farther, though it won't be compatible with x86/x64 applications (the old ball and chain).

I'd rather have a real computer though. Don't see much point in portables. If there's work to do and I'm away from my desk then I treat this as my micro-vacation. Being tied to your computer is just a subtle way to get workers to voluntarily work more hours (seriously, checking work email when someone wakes up, that's just voluntary servitude).

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[Anonymous Coward]

All they really did is change the way memory use is shown. Vista made no distinction between ram that was in-use and ram used as cache.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[thegarbz]

As much as I hate Windows 8.1, one thing they have done right is greatly reduced the memory load.

Windows Vista 64-bit took about 2GB RAM, you basically had to have 3GB+ to run anything.

Windows 7 64-bit took about 1GB RAM, or practical tests 0.8GB, you basically had to have 2GB+ to run anything.

Windows 8/8.1 takes a whole 0.28GB RAM, you basically need 1GB+ to run anything.

The Surface 3 is made for word processing, browsing the web, watching video, taking notes, or simpler tasks like that. 2GB will work well for this role.

Sorry but I can't agree. I've never seen Windows 8.1 EVER run with that low of a memory load, and that's the first thing I checked when I bought a Surface Pro 3 fresh out of the box because I was worried that 4GB wasn't going to be enough. Admittedly I do photography which is why I was worried about 4GB, and really I was right. It is a battle to get any software to provision more than 2GB of memory. Windows 8.1 booted up out of the box consuming just over 1GB. These days it boots to about 1.5GB with Chrome, Dropbox, and generic odds and ends installed. Firing up word, opening a 3 page document, and having Outlook open at the same time will consume around about 500MB of RAM by itself.

So no. I do not agree that 2GB is enough on a modern system. I do not agree that 2GB is enough on a modern system that only runs Office, let alone one that will have Onenote and other things open in the background.

I love the Surface 3 Pro. It's been a real pleasure to use since I bought it and would wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone with enough budget and the desire to have one device act as a tablet and a laptop. But I won't EVER suggest to anyone these days that they can get away with a full Windows PC that only has 2GB of RAM.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[hcs_$reboot]

As much as I hate Windows 8.1, one thing they have done right is greatly reduced the memory load.

So what's the problem. If something needs 8 GB you just put 8 GB of ram in to that thing.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[Anonymous Coward]

>But if someone's going to use full applications (ie, Office, Photoshop, etc) then 2GB will start to hurt.

Nope, even on the previous generation of Windows Atom tablets (I have a couple), Office was pretty damn snappy and I mean the full blown desktop version too, not Metro apps.

Photoshop would probably suck though.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[Anonymous Coward]

Portable sound studio?
Did they mention what audio chips they are using?
Because most regular audio chips are decent at voiceovers and youtube clips, but just try making any kind of recording with a real instument and you'll soon discover the meaning of millisecond lag. And dont even get me started on trying to make a recording with an auxillary backing track.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[error_logic]

Windows uses memory to cache things, making the system faster if it can. It will use less RAM if it has to, and they have been improving efficiency when resources are tight.

You can't predict memory use on a low-memory system from the behavior of one with a lot of memory.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[thegarbz]

You must have missed the bits where I said that on a fresh install, where things like Supercache etc don't have any data to cache yet. Or the bit where I said it's a battle to get software to provision more than 2GB of RAM on a 4GB system.

If it did there wouldn't be a problem, but the simple fact of the matter is that I have a 4GB laptop and with no other programs running in the background I can fire up a memory intensive program and watch the system grind to a halt when it is using just a tad over 2.5GB of RAM. By your account I should have a full 1.2GB in addition given my 4GB and your claim that windows will run down to 0.3GB but the software never seems to get it, which puts us right back at the core problem:

It doesn't matter how much people talk about cache, or lean windows, or anything like that. On 2GB Windows 8.1 shows serious signs of struggling under memory load for basic workloads.

Re:2GB More Than Enough With Windows 8.1

[error_logic]

You've got some wires crossed--the RAM numbers were given by someone else.

To be honest I haven't studied particulars, edge cases, etc... But one thing that strikes me is even on a fresh install, files accessed and read to memory will likely stay in memory until it's needed by other tasks. That doesn't take a cache history, it's just lazy freeing of memory in case the contents are needed again. Again, haven't tested anything, this is conjecture.

You and the other poster may actually both be right, with very specific use cases revealing both the best and worst behaviors and making for a very confused argument. :P

So, Windows RT is dead

[Andy_R]

Is there anyone outside M$ who didn't see that coming?

Re:So, Windows RT is dead

[Bing Tsher E]

Yes, and anybody who was dumb enough to buy an RT device is stuck, most likely. But the x86 equivalent to any ARM-based Win8 tablet they bought is almost certainly cheaper than the ARM unit was.

Re:So, Windows RT is dead

[darkwing_bmf]

Those RT devices were probably the most underrated tablets ever. My mom has one and she loves the thing. Runs office, solitaire, and Netflix just fine. Granted, it can't run legacy x86 apps, but neither can iPad or Android.

Re:So, Windows RT is dead

[Needs2BeSaid]

Why do "people" continue to use "M$" as a backhanded attack against the wealth of Microsoft when Apple and Google are worth much more and are just as, or even more, evil?

Single core 39% that of the new macbook.

[Anonymous Coward]

Based on lenovo's best performance for the processor used in the new macbook (stock core m 5y70)....

The performance is around 39% for a single core (most windows applications use one core).

And the total performance of all 4 cores is about 79% that of the 2 cores in the 5y70.

And Windows people thought the macbook was underpowered....

Re:Single core 39% that of the new macbook.

[kamapuaa]

The Macbook is quite expensive and rather large for a laptop, this is the budget model of a tablet/ultraportable latop. Personally I would consider that a poor showing by the Macbook.

Looks like the ideal tablet to run OSX.

[Anonymous Coward]

OSX will probably run smoother than Windows too. The hardware is very similar to the new Atom based Macbook (Intel reference chipsets) and it seems that Apple does not want to release a product that might compete with their iPads and Macbook Air.

They are already busy to make an install USB image here:
http://www.insanelymac.com/forum/forum/442-microsoft/

Re:downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look be

[Bing Tsher E]

Microsoft is done with the ARM versions of Windows on tablets. Likely they want that whole mess to die in a fire. Because the new line of Atom processors is really good. I forget to plug my Asus Transformer tablet in all the time and it crashes if I leave it that way for a day or so. Because the battery life is good enough that I generally use it unwired to the charger, and the life is long enough that you forget about that. It's not fabulous battery life but it's pretty good battery life. Enough that ARM just isn't important anymore to Microsoft.

Macbook is Core M (5Y70) - Atom next level down.

[Anonymous Coward]

The performance is around 39% for a single core (most windows applications use one core).

And the total performance of all 4 cores is about 79% that of the 2 cores in the 5y70.

The graphics processor is a fraction of that in the new Macbook.

And Windows people thought the macbook was underpowered....

Based geekbench 3... (using lenovo's best performance for the processor used in the new macbook (stock core m 5y70))....

http://browser.primatelabs.com/geekbench3/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=ATOM+X7

I've used 10-12 inch tablets before

[Anonymous Coward]

And, I always end up back with my 17" laptop. I wish HP made a variant of the ZBook 17 as a dual battery tablet.

Just the thing for conferences

[Anonymous Coward]

A tablet that you can fix your LaTeX beamer slides using pstricks and polytonic Greek ... sounds excellent!

Re:downgrading cpu to make battery numbers look be

[thegarbz]

All the Surfaces had ARM based processors. The Atom is a nice step up in comparison.

All the Surface Pros had Intel i5s and up, and they still do.

In either case battery life has not been a source of complaints, and even with the Pro 3's i5 which is the same as the Pro 2's the battery easily lasts 8 hours or so.

Looks OK...

[bigfinger76]

There is no way I'll be paying anyone $130 for a qwerty keyboard.

Re:Looks OK...

[thegarbz]

Keyboard + trackpad + doubles as protective cover + features that automatically disable it when folded back allowing the system to display onscreen keyboard and prevents accidental clicks + the fact that it's about 1mm thick + attaches magnetically + it gives you somewhere on the tablet to clip the pen (a big fucking oversight from Microsoft).

You're not paying $130 for a keyboard. You're paying the $130 that Microsoft deviously omitted from the price tag of their product.

Re:Looks OK...

[bigfinger76]

Oh! In that case, where do I sign up?

Re:Looks OK...

[thegarbz]

Just bend forward and grab your ankle in the Microsoft store. ...

Well you joke, but I only partially joke. The fact that Microsoft sells the keyboard separately is outright retarded. The price of the accessory is not so much and no one would blink an eye if they simply put the $130 (actually usually $110) in the price of the tablet to begin with.

arch, branding

[jago25_98]

I think M$ need to be clearer about processors. Only the techies seem to get that an Atom doesn't run x86/x64.

I travelled around Japan and hong Kong looking for a replacement for my broken laptop. I deliberated whether to stick with something that can run x86.

  nowhere in both countries was it really clear what the tablets and computers in the shops actually run. Its a mix and they don't label. Often i had to look up what the processor is to find out. I ended up guessig a lot to save time - cheaper tended to be atom, medium price could be a celeron or an atom and expensive tends to be a i3/5 or 7...but also could just be an upmarket atom.
Its better in Europe but not much. Spain also confusion rains. Uk is better.

I looked at the SP3. Pretty good but lowest ifixit rating due to glue. Lots of people with smashed screens. The battery will west out and then you're screwed. I looked at Japanese specialities such as the Panasonic let's note but at $2000 that's going to induce stress in the road.

So in the end I bought a £200 Zoostorm plex. Made in China... Built in the uk. I shipped this all the way to Hong Kong. Not ideal but half price than the alternatives x86.

I now expect atom will take over in the next few years. But hopefully this will tide me over. Only 2gb runs better on 8.1 than xp... Very strange.

So Microsoft are competing with the likes of the Samsung galaxy pro imho... Since its same processor in this RT... Or whatever you want to not call it ... Thing.

I guess people will shy away from this because they see Microsoft and think bad battery - this is a laptop. Then they might buy a celeron based tablet .... So stupid the branding.
Perhaps there's some pride in m$ that prevents them seeing their link to x86 and less portable computing? Or is it that techies are less ignorant and such they have no clue? Or are they trying to rebrand?
I don't know but this is really basic stuff and theyre messing it up.

The sp3 is amazing though. Not sure what to make if this non pro thing.
At least the word'pro' is a step in the right direction

Re:arch, branding

[thegarbz]

Not sure what to make if this non pro thing.

Just look at it and say 1/3rd of the performance for 1/3rd of the price.

There doesn't appear to be any appreciable difference between the Surface and the Surface Pro now that from the looks of things they abandoned their extreeeeeeeeeeeemly crippled OS. .... I think ..... based solely on the fact that it has an x86 chip.

Re:arch, branding

[jago25_98]

I post real world experience from 3 countries and get rated as troll?!

Don't offend...

[Anonymous Coward]

Careful. Sewage plant workers may be offended if you compare Windows to feces. Feces can be turned into fertilizer! Try that with Windows.

Re: Don't offend...

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey 1995 dude has a friend to play with!

I think the two of you will have a lot of fun together in the prior millennium.

Had M$ sucked it up and...

[Anonymous Coward]

...offered the atom at it's TRUE price of say $400, I might've been interested OR HAD they done core m 5y70 or 71 @ mebbe $50-100 more I'd've bought in, but the price for this atom shit is egregiously HIGH for such shit specs.

nuff said, I'm going home to wait and see what the Chinese pop out other than Cube who seem to be gouging...

Release Date In India

[Anonymous Coward]

wow.When it will be launched in India?